For a while now, I've been wanting to put together a cube to mix things up with my friends. I keep putting it off, though, because I have a bit of a toss up between making it paupet or peasant. I want to be able to build archetypes into the cube, and I've heard and seen that peasant has a wider variety of themes to build around, especially nowadays since they seed archetype pay offs so often at uncommon.
I don't mind that, but I don't know how big the price difference is between the two formats, and I was wondering if anybody had a ballpark idea? I don't expect this to be too powered in order to push archetypes so that probably cuts a little bit of the cost. I suppose knowing the archetypes I want to build would help with the difference but I'm having a hard time deciding without knowing whether I'm going uncommon or not.
So J guess the long and short of it is, is the price difference between pauper and peasant cubes very large, and is there a significant payoff of being able to design a limited format around more archetypes in peasant versus pauper cubes?
I've also wondered, what's more "supported"? Talked about, and has a larger base of players, pauper or peasant cube? That would also be useful to know, since it would give a larger range of opinions.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
They didn't care that he was the savior of Fort Keff, the great hunter of Ondu, the champion of Kabira. To them, he was just another piece of flesh, a thing with life to be drained away.
Pauper cubes certainly seem to be more widely known of, whenever I talk to people about how my cube is rarity restricted they instantly assume "it's pauper" (even if they don't know exactly what that means).
Although I've never played with a Pauper cube before, I would assume the games are a bit more grindy and value orreinted than in peasant where we have more "bomb" cards. Archetypes at peasant are pretty diverse and I assume the payoffs for building linear decks are better than those at pauper.
Price wise, I always hear the generic 360 pauper cube can be bought for <$100 USD. Peasant will cost you a couple of hundred dollars depending on if you want to run some of the more expensive cards. Demonic Tutor is the most expensive one I run, but there are some $$$ cards available in the pool like Mana Drain, Imperial Recruiter, Wasteland and Force of Will that some people here play. My list cost me under $300 AUD + shipping for the card I didn't have (anything that's not a pauper staple or was printed since THS really).
Pauper is real back to basics magic, whereas Peasant gives you a lot more powerful cards and some interactions which can be complicated rules-wise.
The price difference depends a lot on what cards you want to play and how many you already own. If you can live without Demonic Tutor or Path to Exile, the difference is not that significant. Budget options are a thing, even playing Swords to Plowshares instead of Path saves you a few bucks, Condemn is even cheaper.
Definitely start building just out of cards you have. According to Cube Tutor, my Peasant cube is valued at around $375, but most of it came from leftover commons and uncommons I already had on hand or pulled out of the draft chaff box at my LGS (free for the taking for anyone who wants to pick through it). I spent less than $50 to fill in the holes. I actually spent more on sleeves than I actually spent on the cards I bought for the cube, but quality sleeves are overpriced where I live.
If budget's a concern for you, one way you can save money on some of the more expensive cards is by getting World Championship editions. They have gold borders and a different back, so you'll need to use opaque sleeves to run them, but a lot of them are a fraction of their tournament legal counterparts. For example:
In the sake of full disclosure, the above responders are all peasant cube people.
In any case, for a cube, I think it's possible that peasant has a larger base. Maybe? We could check cube tutor but ever since I made the original thread it has had a higher rate of views and conversation. Some of hay has to do with me, though
You can also just proxy stuff. Nobody (other than morons) will ever complain that your Inquisition of Kozilek came from your desktop printer or that you didn't shell out $20 for a real copy.
In the sake of full disclosure, the above responders are all peasant cube people.
Ha ha, I guess that might color some opinions but the posts mentioning pauper seemed pretty fair about it.
The last question was kind of a strange one but I asked since I felt like I heard more about pauper cubes among my playgroup, and I am quite familiar with the popularity of Adam Styborski's cube and how it seems to pop up quite often when looking around for cubing information, maybe even more than regular, unlimited cubes. So I've always felt like pauper was a little more in the open and sort the more popular and researched nonstandard cube which does give me a bit of leaning towards it beyond pricing.
If pauper feels more like drafting a set of Magic, I think that's the the feel I want to be more towards. I kind of want to d osomething like Modern Masters drafts, which I like because of being an eclectic draft set and their combination of offbeat themes and popular archetypes. I have no problem not playing power cards like the many ones listed, especially to make room for archetype synergy at the expense of power level (but the suggestion buy the World Championship editions was a good one and I'll keep that in mind if the need arises). I was just worried that there might not be enough variety or push for archetypes at pauper if I AM willing to sacrifice power level for it.
I personally don't have a very large or deep collection as I'm a relatively new player (I've been sort of personally familiar with Magic since the original ISD but I've never really bought cards myself and really dug into it until C14 when I started getting into Commander), and while the suggestion to make a mostly pauper cube with numbers of uncommon payoff cards is something I'm interested in and a great suggestion, I feel that I also don't really have the game sense yet to tweak the knobs quite like that.
They didn't care that he was the savior of Fort Keff, the great hunter of Ondu, the champion of Kabira. To them, he was just another piece of flesh, a thing with life to be drained away.
I changed my cube from pauper to peasant a few months ago, so while I'm a peasant cuber now, I think I've got a fair idea about the differences. I still love the feeling of pauper magic, but I felt like I wanted a little bit more power and more defined archetypes, so I moved to peasant. Starting with a pauper cube is still a good idea though. Just take cards you already have, play with them, if you want you can "upgrade" to peasant and a lot of your cards can carry over.
I would actually recommend you start by looking at Alex Ullman's Pauper cube instead of Styborski's first. Unfortunately, Ullman has stopped updating his list after Khans block, but it includes many more cards from recent sets that you might already have and it plays more like a recent draft set. His explanations of cube design principles are great for starting out. I think Styborski's cube is also moving in that direction, but he still plays cards like Maze of Ith. You can find Ullman's stuff here, just go back a few pages until you hit his first piece "An Introduction to Cube Design".
If you have the capacity, print to 100lb+ Cardstock. It feels very similar to normal cards.
Or print on Glossy for clarity (and thinness) and slide them over top of reg cards (turned around in sleeves)
If you truly cannot decide, you can print a whole cube for less than the cost of a Pauper Cube. I advocate Pauper personally. But if I had/want to make the jump up rarity, then I would go the Glossy route.
As the above have mentioned, only some uncommons are of value - and I'd say that not all cubes even need them.
My cube wound up expensive because I wanted to Beta it out, but without that urge it wouldn't be all that expensive if I cut some of the pricier stuff like Wasteland, Berserk, Force of Will - some of which aren't even that good in the cube. Easily replaceable.
My cube apparently comes out to $584 tcg-mid (or whatever deckbox.org defaults to) with I guess the cheapest printings. https://deckbox.org/sets/1328444?s=i&o=d
If you cut the ~$10+ cards
Shardless Agent, Kitchen Finks, Berserk, Force of Will, Path to Exile, Inquisition of Kozilek, Chain Lightning, Demonic Tutor, Sylvan Library, Wasteland, Maze of Ith
You're left with just short of $200 for 425 cards; which I'm sure could be cut down some more based on what you own, what your friends have lying around in their bulk boxes, and what you can find deals online for.
Thanks for the new posts, especially tour write up, Izor. The outline of the common, easy archetypes between pauper and peasant was especially useful.
Like I said, I'd like to build a cu e with a feel similar to drafting a Modern Masters set, If pauper is more like set draft, I think that's what I'd want to go for, right? It seems like the price difference is not much since I don't mind not playing some power cards at uncommon since it leaves room for more archetype cards, but making my own limited environment is the feel I want to lean towards.
I noticed you mentioned only pushing 1-2 archetypes per color. Since I've been thinking about this in a set building sort of way, I'd only thought on building 10 guild archetypes which would be quite a bit more. Is it not possible to support that number of themes at pauper 360?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
They didn't care that he was the savior of Fort Keff, the great hunter of Ondu, the champion of Kabira. To them, he was just another piece of flesh, a thing with life to be drained away.
GB is mostly Graveyard matters, be it Scavenge, Morbid, Madness.. Dredge.
You can effectively build a Ravnica/Future Sight design. My second article (see signature) talks about the themes that crossover. Ravnicas (both times) was good for that, while Time Spiral block just threw out zany stuff to make things feel unique.
If you wanted a 10 Guild ID cube, I would start taking ideas from thlse 3 blocks.
At the moment I am trying out an archetype pauper cube. I'm satisfied at the moment, even if the archetypes aren't dominant in gameplay, they still add a little synergy.
In the matter of UG I am supporting a landfall theme, although I need a few more landfall cards to fully support that.
I don't mind that, but I don't know how big the price difference is between the two formats, and I was wondering if anybody had a ballpark idea? I don't expect this to be too powered in order to push archetypes so that probably cuts a little bit of the cost. I suppose knowing the archetypes I want to build would help with the difference but I'm having a hard time deciding without knowing whether I'm going uncommon or not.
So J guess the long and short of it is, is the price difference between pauper and peasant cubes very large, and is there a significant payoff of being able to design a limited format around more archetypes in peasant versus pauper cubes?
I've also wondered, what's more "supported"? Talked about, and has a larger base of players, pauper or peasant cube? That would also be useful to know, since it would give a larger range of opinions.
But the people behind the barrier knew.
Although I've never played with a Pauper cube before, I would assume the games are a bit more grindy and value orreinted than in peasant where we have more "bomb" cards. Archetypes at peasant are pretty diverse and I assume the payoffs for building linear decks are better than those at pauper.
Price wise, I always hear the generic 360 pauper cube can be bought for <$100 USD. Peasant will cost you a couple of hundred dollars depending on if you want to run some of the more expensive cards. Demonic Tutor is the most expensive one I run, but there are some $$$ cards available in the pool like Mana Drain, Imperial Recruiter, Wasteland and Force of Will that some people here play. My list cost me under $300 AUD + shipping for the card I didn't have (anything that's not a pauper staple or was printed since THS really).
Draft it on Cubetutor here, and CubeCobra here.
Treasure Cruise did nothing wrong.
The price difference depends a lot on what cards you want to play and how many you already own. If you can live without Demonic Tutor or Path to Exile, the difference is not that significant. Budget options are a thing, even playing Swords to Plowshares instead of Path saves you a few bucks, Condemn is even cheaper.
If budget's a concern for you, one way you can save money on some of the more expensive cards is by getting World Championship editions. They have gold borders and a different back, so you'll need to use opaque sleeves to run them, but a lot of them are a fraction of their tournament legal counterparts. For example:
Wasteland = $3.99
Ancient Tomb = $3.99
City of Brass = $0.69
Eternal Witness = $1.19
Force of Will = $12.99
450 card Peasant cube thread. Draft it here.
In any case, for a cube, I think it's possible that peasant has a larger base. Maybe? We could check cube tutor but ever since I made the original thread it has had a higher rate of views and conversation. Some of hay has to do with me, though
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
Ha ha, I guess that might color some opinions but the posts mentioning pauper seemed pretty fair about it.
The last question was kind of a strange one but I asked since I felt like I heard more about pauper cubes among my playgroup, and I am quite familiar with the popularity of Adam Styborski's cube and how it seems to pop up quite often when looking around for cubing information, maybe even more than regular, unlimited cubes. So I've always felt like pauper was a little more in the open and sort the more popular and researched nonstandard cube which does give me a bit of leaning towards it beyond pricing.
If pauper feels more like drafting a set of Magic, I think that's the the feel I want to be more towards. I kind of want to d osomething like Modern Masters drafts, which I like because of being an eclectic draft set and their combination of offbeat themes and popular archetypes. I have no problem not playing power cards like the many ones listed, especially to make room for archetype synergy at the expense of power level (but the suggestion buy the World Championship editions was a good one and I'll keep that in mind if the need arises). I was just worried that there might not be enough variety or push for archetypes at pauper if I AM willing to sacrifice power level for it.
I personally don't have a very large or deep collection as I'm a relatively new player (I've been sort of personally familiar with Magic since the original ISD but I've never really bought cards myself and really dug into it until C14 when I started getting into Commander), and while the suggestion to make a mostly pauper cube with numbers of uncommon payoff cards is something I'm interested in and a great suggestion, I feel that I also don't really have the game sense yet to tweak the knobs quite like that.
But the people behind the barrier knew.
I would actually recommend you start by looking at Alex Ullman's Pauper cube instead of Styborski's first. Unfortunately, Ullman has stopped updating his list after Khans block, but it includes many more cards from recent sets that you might already have and it plays more like a recent draft set. His explanations of cube design principles are great for starting out. I think Styborski's cube is also moving in that direction, but he still plays cards like Maze of Ith. You can find Ullman's stuff here, just go back a few pages until you hit his first piece "An Introduction to Cube Design".
Or print on Glossy for clarity (and thinness) and slide them over top of reg cards (turned around in sleeves)
If you truly cannot decide, you can print a whole cube for less than the cost of a Pauper Cube. I advocate Pauper personally. But if I had/want to make the jump up rarity, then I would go the Glossy route.
Loose Change Pauper Cube-cast
Pauper Cube Article #1
Pauper Cube Article #2
Personal Enjoyment Cube
My cube wound up expensive because I wanted to Beta it out, but without that urge it wouldn't be all that expensive if I cut some of the pricier stuff like Wasteland, Berserk, Force of Will - some of which aren't even that good in the cube. Easily replaceable.
My cube apparently comes out to $584 tcg-mid (or whatever deckbox.org defaults to) with I guess the cheapest printings.
https://deckbox.org/sets/1328444?s=i&o=d
If you cut the ~$10+ cards
Shardless Agent, Kitchen Finks, Berserk, Force of Will, Path to Exile, Inquisition of Kozilek, Chain Lightning, Demonic Tutor, Sylvan Library, Wasteland, Maze of Ith
You're left with just short of $200 for 425 cards; which I'm sure could be cut down some more based on what you own, what your friends have lying around in their bulk boxes, and what you can find deals online for.
So you're in that, plus Sleeves.
[Developing] 430+ Peasant Cube Thread --- [and on Cube Cobra]
Like I said, I'd like to build a cu e with a feel similar to drafting a Modern Masters set, If pauper is more like set draft, I think that's what I'd want to go for, right? It seems like the price difference is not much since I don't mind not playing some power cards at uncommon since it leaves room for more archetype cards, but making my own limited environment is the feel I want to lean towards.
I noticed you mentioned only pushing 1-2 archetypes per color. Since I've been thinking about this in a set building sort of way, I'd only thought on building 10 guild archetypes which would be quite a bit more. Is it not possible to support that number of themes at pauper 360?
But the people behind the barrier knew.
UG you have the Graft/(+1/+1) themes. But mostly just odd tempo cards like Temporal Spring or Assault Zeppled
GB is mostly Graveyard matters, be it Scavenge, Morbid, Madness.. Dredge.
You can effectively build a Ravnica/Future Sight design. My second article (see signature) talks about the themes that crossover. Ravnicas (both times) was good for that, while Time Spiral block just threw out zany stuff to make things feel unique.
If you wanted a 10 Guild ID cube, I would start taking ideas from thlse 3 blocks.
Loose Change Pauper Cube-cast
Pauper Cube Article #1
Pauper Cube Article #2
Personal Enjoyment Cube
In the matter of UG I am supporting a landfall theme, although I need a few more landfall cards to fully support that.
Or are you interested in a Fiora flavor cube? Conspire and win!
Level 2 Judge