It's the second Goblin Bombardment we've been wanting At first I thought it was too strong but I didn't see 'nonland' on my first pass. Nonland is nearly always going to be creature, and while powerful, with a mana cost attached it seems pretty fair.
Hey guys, long-time lurker here. This thread popped up as I was considering doing something similar (had a Dr. Strangelove moment where I wondered why I was worrying so much about WotC's designations as a strict rule), so I figured it was as good a time as any to introduce myself. A link to my (currently) Peasant cube should be below in my signature, assuming I've set everything up correctly.
My basic goals for adding a few rares are to:
1) Provide some additional support to certain archetypes (such as Spells Matter and +1/+1 Counters)
2) Smooth out some colors' mana curves
3) Increase the variance of available effects a bit (esp. to avoid duplicate/similar cards such as Pestilence/Pyrohemia)
I also like the idea of adding some more older cards to the cube that just fit the "feel" of Peasant, such as Call of the Herd and Mahamoti Djinn.
Anyway, I'm not interested in adding Wrath effects to my cube, but I've been going back and forth over cards like Earthquake and Starstorm. I'm really fond of Quake, but worry it's too splashable / easy to break symmetry on. Starstorm I kind of wish hit players. What do you guys think?
(And nice to meet y'all!)
I am undecided on sweepers/wraths. While remaining sceptical, they do add an interesting element.
I agree that I would be more inclined to run Starstorm over Earthquake for splashability reasons. On the other hand, the player damage on Earthquake could perhaps work as a drawback for a control player. Spending all your mana and taking 4 is perhaps a fair price to pay to wipe a board? This ignores the times when an X=2 gives you a 3+ for one though. However, we already have access to Savage Twister, so this is perhaps fine?
How do we feel about Larry Nevin's Disk? Is this among the more OK wraths for peasant? It takes 5 mana and two turns, and the opponent can at least play around it to some extent. It also dies to sex monkeys and other artifact hate. Would it be more ok in an evironment that ran more artifact hate and where such effects were main deckable?
EDIT: Also, Sunscour? That certainly doesn't look overpowered i think. Either you spend 3 cards, or you need 7 mana. Both cases seem like a fair way to clear the table, doesn't it?
Would Blinkmoth Nexus be worth playing in a singleton format? My gut feeling is no, but it is a really miniscule cost to run it, even if the benefit isn't great.
I don't think so. The 2-power on Mutavault or Mishra's Factory increases their value substantially over Blinkmoth Nexus in my opinion. You could certainly put it in your cube, but would you put it in a deck? Is it even better than Foundry of the Consuls?
I've given some thought to this type of list as well. I've been adding rares to my peasnt cube "as needed" pretty much since I built it. I've ran cards like Savannah Lions and the pain lands for some time now because those were holes that needed to be filled at this rarity. I recently included some of the cards printed at uncommon from the MTGO only sets. Radiant, Archangel has turned out to be an absolute bomb in a peasant format. (Imagine that.) I don't see why the other colors shouldn't have access to cards of a similar power level. Rather than the Peasant limitation of only allowing commons/uncommons, why not use more of an arbitrary power limitation set by you as the cube owner? It wouldn't be a cube where you're doing flashy things with fast mana and planeswalkers, but you could craft it around the archetypes you want to support. It's no small task, for sure, as pretty much each card has to be evaluated separately. Is it good enough? Is it too good? Does fit the theme I want to support?
I almost feel like it'd be best to approach it similar to something like Modern Masters where you have some heavily supported archetypes in the color combos, as well as some off the wall combinations and generic aggro/midrange/control decks to be drafted. So if you want Boros to be an aggressive deck, you support that in those colors appropriately. Occasionally someone will put together a Boros deck that locks you out with Ghostly Prison and Slice and Dice, but mostly the Boros decks will be creature heavy burn decks. You fill out those archetypes in each color and the you fill the holes with the universally playable cards (like Doom Blade and Counterspell). I also don't think a cube like this should be all that large. 450 would probably be the highest I would go with something like this. I'd honestly try to stick to around 360 if I could depending on what it started to look like once I began adding cards to the list.
I am undecided on sweepers/wraths. While remaining sceptical, they do add an interesting element.
I agree that I would be more inclined to run Starstorm over Earthquake for splashability reasons. On the other hand, the player damage on Earthquake could perhaps work as a drawback for a control player. Spending all your mana and taking 4 is perhaps a fair price to pay to wipe a board? This ignores the times when an X=2 gives you a 3+ for one though. However, we already have access to Savage Twister, so this is perhaps fine?
How do we feel about Larry Nevin's Disk? Is this among the more OK wraths for peasant? It takes 5 mana and two turns, and the opponent can at least play around it to some extent. It also dies to sex monkeys and other artifact hate. Would it be more ok in an evironment that ran more artifact hate and where such effects were main deckable?
I think the Disk is pretty insane. Barring an astoundingly high volume of artifact hate in your cube, the amount of times you're going to have an answer in hand is going to be pretty low, effectively making it a 1-turn suspended Wrath (that also clears artifacts / enchantments) in any color. Maybe if your cube environment looks like Mirrodin? Even then I'd have my reservations.
Also, I've slotted in my rare additions to Cubetutor, though I don't get the chance to play that often so it'll likely be a good while before I'm able to actually get the cards and test them out.
The cards I'm least sure of are Hammer of Bogardan and Quirion Dryad. The former I'm hoping will find a place in a more control-oriented version of the spells matter deck, but maybe it's just too slow. The latter I think is probably more fair than Managorger Hydra (?), but the Miracle-Gro shenanigans still might be too much.
Quirion Dryad is a card I personally love, but I have a hard time imagining the situation it's really good in. In constructed it was good because you could create a deck focused around it with a solid mana base to support it, but trying to draft something like a 3+ color deck with lots of cheaper spells and not too many green spells seems like a tall order for a cube draft.
Gavony Township is one I'd considered too, but I'm concerned it'd just dominate the long game too much. Worth testing for sure, and GW is often a less popular color combo so maybe it could use a card of that power level.
Hundred-Handed one is included because it has 100 hands. It is fine, even if it is ahead of the typical peasant curve on plain stats. (The only 3/5's for CMC=4 in peasant are apparently Balduvian Fallen and Wall of Swords. EDIT: And Scarwood Treefolk)
Talrand, as I mentioned earlier, is good but not problematic. I think it is a good example of a rare to include in Peasant. It does something good for a given archetype and is strong but doesn't feel out of place in any way.
Call of the Herd always ends up getting milled/looted and flashed back for value, and it feels good.
Kazandu Tuskcaller is very good and wins games, but for now I think it is overall OK. I included it to play a role in a WG tokens/populate deck, but it has actually performed best in UG(x) decks that can protect it with counterspells. It can win the game for any deck at any time if not answered of course, but the prospect of having it die in response to the second level up makes it risky. I would be interested to hear what you have to say about it, my concern is that it is too swingy, but as I said, for now my impression is that it is fine.
I remember playing against the portal back when it came out, and it is hard. You always have to leave 2 mana up to avoid having your creatures getting bounced, you have a hard time killing your opponent's creatures, and they get to abuse ETB stuff.
The Township will probably depend a lot on the average speed of your cube, but of course it is sick if it gets going.
Solemn probably doesn't break anything, but it is a three for one that ramps and fixes in any colour.
I remember playing against the portal back when it came out, and it is hard. You always have to leave 2 mana up to avoid having your creatures getting bounced, you have a hard time killing your opponent's creatures, and they get to abuse ETB stuff.
A lot of this could also be said about Crystal Shard, which I don't think has caused too many problems for people. It's powerful, sure, but not problematic. Anecdotally, the one time we drafted with rares with my cube, the Portal was actually slightly worse than Crystal Shard simply because the casting cost was a little more awkward to find a good time for.
I don't mind portal or shard from a pure power level standpoint, but I've ended up abandoning them just because they lead to repetitive gamestates when they are working. Keep shard up to make opponent keep mana up on their turn, then EOT bounce your best ETB guy to replay it on your turn is fun the first couple times, but got old (especially on the opponent's side) pretty quickly for us. It's more a matter of taste than anything.
Feelings on Ant Queen? It's like Jade Mage's big sister. The lower activation cost means you could potentially get a lot more tokens, but you are still limited by how much G you have.
I think the difference between 2 mana and 3 is a significant improvement, and that activating this 3 times a turn adds too much inevitability for my liking, especially when the base stats are good at helping you stabilise. Pumping out multiple tokens each turn paired with some cards would probably become nuts pretty quickly; Goblin Bombardment, Blood Artist, Hissing Iguanar etc.
It's cool to hear that Kazandu Tuskcaller does well in UG decks, since that's actually what I had in mind when I was looking at the card.
Good point about Hundred-Handed One, I hadn't given too much consideration to the base stats. I was also thinking about Commander Eesha for this slot, but decided it was a bit too close to Seraph of Dawn for my tastes (though I suppose it fills a pretty different role, on reflection).
As far as the Dryad, it wasn't just the dedicated three color decks I was worried about, but also the fact that any two color could splash green for it and make it big without much effort. I guess the lack of evasion and slow rate of growth may balance it out in those situations though.
But yeah, Gavony Township probably deserves closer attention than I was thinking... Thanks for the feedback.
As far as Ant Queen, I don't think it's too far off, but compared to Jade Mage it's a quick value-generator that's much tougher. I would imagine that how much better it is depends on how strong your removal options are.
Here's my project I started that seems relevant, the power level is generally a bit lower than peasant goodstuff I think, but the point is a low-power archetype-driven synergy-centric cube
A lot of this could also be said about Crystal Shard, which I don't think has caused too many problems for people. It's powerful, sure, but not problematic.
Haha, that's true. I guess I don't have the Painful Memories of playing against that with Tempest and Mirage era power-level creatures though:-)
My gut feeling on Ant Queen vs Jade Mage is that the Queen is too much, but maybe not. It is probably an "answer me now or lose" card, so it depends how many of those you want. The mage has flexibility in that it can work as a suboptimal two-drop when you need it to, but it also has value later. The Ant is not flexible like that, but unlike the mage, it's late game value is not only tied to the token-generation, it also has a relevant body. Plus, it survives burn, pingers and most (all?) black -x/-x effects.
--
EDIT: Just had a look at some cards. Quicksilver Elemental. Now this surely fits into the "Rares with unique effects" category, and its base stats and general powerlevel are certainly not out of bounds for peasant. (Compare with the recent Cyclone Sire). I'm intrigued. How often will it do nothing though .. ? Hmm.
EDITEDIT: Had another look at what abilities it could typically copy. Enclave Cryptologist. Just to make sure I understand the rules interactions: Quicksilver Elemental can gain any activated abilities the cryptologist has. So if it is level 0, there are no looting or draw abilities there to be copied. If it is level 3+, then both abilities would be available to the QE. In all cases, the level up mechanic would be available for the QE, but it would be irrelevant. You could activate it, and it would put level counters on the QE, but they wouldn't do anything. Specifically, the QE would not need to have the appropriate number of level counters to activate any of the loot/draw abilities. It's ability to activate those abilities would be 100% determined by the number of level counters on the Cryptologist. Correct?
So I've toyed with the idea of adding some rares to fill in a few holes and I put together this as a possible white section. It's all I've got so far, but I'd like some feedback. In retrospect some of the cards that I currently run in my C/U cube feel a little too under powered in this list.
Dragon Hunter
Elite Vanguard
Expedition Envoy
Isamaru, Hound of Konda
Mardu Woe-Reaper
Mother of Runes
Savannah Lions
Soldier of the Pantheon
Steppe Lynx
Accorder Paladin
Consul's Lieutenant
Kor Skyfisher
Lone Missionary
Porcelain Legionnaire
Ronom Unicorn
Seeker of the Way
Soltari Monk
Soltari Priest
Soltari Trooper
Topan Freeblade
Wall of Omens
Attended Knight
Banisher Priest
Flickerwisp
Kor Hookmaster
Midnight Haunting
Paladin en-Vec
Pianna, Nomad Captain
Soltari Champion
Spectral Procession
Emeria Angel
Guardian of the Guildpact
Kor Sanctifiers
Battlegrace Angel
Cloudgoat Ranger
Custodi Squire
Radiant, Archangel
Sentinel of the Eternal Watch
Angel of Serenity
Enlightened Tutor
Mana Tithe
Path to Exile
Swords to Plowshares
Blind Obedience
Disenchant
Journey to Nowhere
Seal of Cleansing
Banishing Light
Ghostly Prison
Glorious Anthem
Lashknife Barrier
Mobilization
Oblivion Ring
Blinding Beam
Faith's Fetters
Planar Outburst
Austere Command
Decree of Justice
Martial Coup
Kjeldoran Outpost
The enchantments also look okay: Mobilization seems fairly costed (though tougher to remove than Jade Mage), and Blind Obedience looks like a more cubeable Kismet (though it sort of hoses the Fires deck if you support that).
Kjeldoran Outpost and Decree of Justice are a bit tough for me to evaluate. My feeling is that they're alright: the former is limited to one token per turn like Squirrel Nest. The second requires a ton of mana to use effectively, but the fact that you can cycle it as an instant could make it pretty good (I imagine paying for the primary cost will be pretty rare).
Angel of Serenity and Martial Coup seem like absolute houses. Both have huge impacts on your opponent's board AND leave you with significant bodies yourself. They're expensive, yeah, but 7 mana is not that terribly high, and the vast majority of the time they will probably win you the game on the spot.
I would also play it more cautious with the Wrath effects, and probably only include one to start for testing. I may also reduce the power level: Austere Command in particular seems easy to turn into a huge lopsided play. Maybe Planar Cleansing, as it requires 6 mana and heavy white commitment, or Mageta the Lion, since he takes up a lot of resources and can be answered by opponents?
Thanks for the feedback, man. The places I feel like white is lacking when it comes to peasant vs rare is sweepers and finishers. It's really hard, though, to find that line between peasant and powered and stay just this side of it.
Something like Battlegrace is definitely not good enough for even the largest of rare cubes, but I agree that it does feel a little pushed for this type of format. With that said, though, I still think I want something with a little more 'oomph' than just regular old Serra Angel in that slot. I like Emeria Angel. She can get out of hand, but you're typically only getting one token per turn and probably not until turn five. Any suggestions for something else to play that falls between the power level of Serra Angel and Battlegrace Angel?
I like cards like Mobilization and wish I could find more like this. It feels like the this format's equivalent of a planeswalker.
Kjeldoran Outpost, I think, will be right at home in this format. It's slow, it doesn't progress your land drops, and it only makes one token each turn. I think it'll be solid for control decks that want a grindy finisher or for token decks that want to crank out a creature each turn. Decree is iffy. It's borderline good enough for rare cube, but I felt like it fell far enough behind Secure the Wastes on power level that it might be ok here.
I also agree on Angel of Serenity and Martial Coup. Again, though, this is where this white is lacking in this format. Big finishers and sweepers. Something like Planar Cleansing might be a better route to take over the Coup. Any ideas for big white finishers? I want something that will appeal to ramp decks, reanimation decks, and WX control decks.
I ran Austere Command in my rare cube for a good while and it was a lot harder to make it one sided that it looks. It earned the nickname Awkward Command for a reason. Mageta might be an ok replacement there. Discarding two cards seems rough, but maybe that's the gray area in power level that I'm looking for.
Yeah, I guess it depends on what you're trying to do with your format, as many people would say that a lack of sweeps is part of peasant's identity. I'm personally not going down that road, but as I mentioned it seems like if you do it might be wise to play it conservatively with those effects since it's going to be tougher to recover from a board clear than it would be in a rare cube (or at least, it's going to change how people play against white in a pretty big way).
Looking through white 5 drops, Archon of Redemption isn't flashy but could do work in WU Skies. Archon of Justice seems really solid (maybe a bit much, but the death trigger is tougher to take advantage of than ETB), and I really like the pseudo-Reconnaissance effect of Gustcloak Savior, which lets wider decks swing in with a deal of impunity. Scion of Vitu-Ghazi is about on par with Cloudgoat Ranger, but gets better if you're in GW tokens.
As far as curve-toppers I think it's a bit tougher to hit the right power level. Karmic Guide appeals to reanimation but is perhaps not good enough. Requiem Angel is great in tokens and better in sacrifice, but kind of blows Pawn of Ulamog out of the water. Luminous Angel is probably too slow. Yosei, the Morning Star is above curve and can provide a huge swing.
Luminate Primordial and Celestial Archon might be closer. The first seems more fair than Angel of Serenity, and the second can be a good creature for 5 or an awesome sticky creature for 7 (with the downside of potentially getting 2-for-1'd if your opponent has enchantment removal, but most is sorcery speed in this format).
I really like Luminate Primordial and Celestial Archon. I dropped Angel of Serenity from that list and replaced it with Angel of Retribution. What's your opinion on those two compared with each other? I also dropped Battlegrace Angel. I love that card and I'm a little sad the it doesn't have a home, but I think it might be a little too powerful for this format. I replaced it with regular old boring Serra Angel, but maybe Celestial Archon could fall into that slot.
I'm having second thoughts about Paladin en-Vec. Not because I have anything against the protections, but because I wonder if he's good enough when playing against decks that aren't those specific colors. A 2/2 first strike for 1WW? Probably not. I'm thinking I'd like Fabled Hero in that slot a little more.
I also dropped Austere Command for Mageta the Lion, which I'm still a little iffy about. He requires so much work that I fear he wouldn't even be played. I could be wrong on that one, though. And I updated the two actual wrath effects to be Kirtar's Wrath and Winds of Rath. I like Kirtar's Wrath because it's six mana and because it only destroys creatures. And you only get a couple of 1/1 spirits after the fact, so it's not super broken or hard to deal with. To be honest, I wish we'd just get a Day of Judgement at six mana with no extra special abilities like this tacked onto the end. That would be great.
So, as of now, the rares for my white section to shore up a few holes for white in peasant (at least in my opinion) are these:
Isamaru, Hound of Konda
Savannah Lions (kinda)
Soldier of the Pantheon
Pianna, Nomad Captain (if you're not counting the online only printings)
Banisher Priest
Fabled Hero
Soltari Champion (online only)
Emeria Angel (possibly too powerful, but I think it's worth the risk to try it out)
Mageta the Lion
Radiant, Archangel (online only)
Angel of Retribution (could be swapped for Luminate Primordial)
Blind Obedience
Glorious Anthem
Mobilization
Winds of Rath
Kirtar's Wrath
Decree of Justice (also possibly too powerful)
Kjeldoran Outpost
That's actually awesome. I think I'd rather have the exile clause than allow for the two 1/1 spirits, so that will replace Kirtar's Wrath nicely. Thanks for the suggestion!
Here is my current working rare list for blue. What do you guys think? Anything stand out as too powerful here?
The thing I found with blue is that most of the really good counters and cheap draw spells are already C/U legal. The one thing I'd like to find is something to help fill out the 3cc creature slot. I like Tandem Lookout and Jhessian Thief okay enough in Peasant, but I'd like to have something above that power level, but not quite up to par with True-Name Nemesis or Vendilion Clique.
Edit: Here's a short list for possible worthy 3cc blue guys.
Wake Thrasher feels quite unique, especially for blue. It does have the Hungry Spriggan issue of dying to basically anything on your opponent's turn, but there's something to be said for a 3-drop that attacks as at least a 4/4 the next turn and only gets bigger as the game goes on.
Vexing Sphinx is really interesting and might not be as bad as the upkeep cost sounds, given that you get the extra age counter before you have to sac it. It basically works out to something like:
Never pay the upkeep - you get the creature for less than a full turn, then sac it and draw a card
Pay once - you get the creature for ~2 turns, then sac it and draw two
Pay twice (three cards discarded) - you get the creature for ~3 turns, then sac it and draw three
Beyond that you start rapidly losing card advantage, so I'd imagine it sticks around as a 3-mana 4/4 flyer for 2-3 turns most of the time. If it eats a kill spell it changes the math for the worse, but it's still not horrible. E.g. you pay twice, discarding three cards total, then they Murder it. You lose the Sphinx and the three discarded cards, then draw two, so you're down two cards but maybe up slightly in tempo from the 4/4 body and card quality if you had chaff to discard. They're down just the kill spell, so it does work as a 2-for-1 for them.
Thanks, I added some of that to the OP and edited it a bit. Very interesting perspectives.
I am undecided on sweepers/wraths. While remaining sceptical, they do add an interesting element.
I agree that I would be more inclined to run Starstorm over Earthquake for splashability reasons. On the other hand, the player damage on Earthquake could perhaps work as a drawback for a control player. Spending all your mana and taking 4 is perhaps a fair price to pay to wipe a board? This ignores the times when an X=2 gives you a 3+ for one though. However, we already have access to Savage Twister, so this is perhaps fine?
How do we feel about Larry Nevin's Disk? Is this among the more OK wraths for peasant? It takes 5 mana and two turns, and the opponent can at least play around it to some extent. It also dies to sex monkeys and other artifact hate. Would it be more ok in an evironment that ran more artifact hate and where such effects were main deckable?
EDIT: Also, Sunscour? That certainly doesn't look overpowered i think. Either you spend 3 cards, or you need 7 mana. Both cases seem like a fair way to clear the table, doesn't it?
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
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No need to break rarity for that! This even makes infinite combos possible at Peasant.
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430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
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I almost feel like it'd be best to approach it similar to something like Modern Masters where you have some heavily supported archetypes in the color combos, as well as some off the wall combinations and generic aggro/midrange/control decks to be drafted. So if you want Boros to be an aggressive deck, you support that in those colors appropriately. Occasionally someone will put together a Boros deck that locks you out with Ghostly Prison and Slice and Dice, but mostly the Boros decks will be creature heavy burn decks. You fill out those archetypes in each color and the you fill the holes with the universally playable cards (like Doom Blade and Counterspell). I also don't think a cube like this should be all that large. 450 would probably be the highest I would go with something like this. I'd honestly try to stick to around 360 if I could depending on what it started to look like once I began adding cards to the list.
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I always forget about Savage Twister. Gruul's too deep, man. Decided to try out Starstorm; Breath of Darigaaz will continue to be my mini-Earthquake for now.
I think the Disk is pretty insane. Barring an astoundingly high volume of artifact hate in your cube, the amount of times you're going to have an answer in hand is going to be pretty low, effectively making it a 1-turn suspended Wrath (that also clears artifacts / enchantments) in any color. Maybe if your cube environment looks like Mirrodin? Even then I'd have my reservations.
Also, I've slotted in my rare additions to Cubetutor, though I don't get the chance to play that often so it'll likely be a good while before I'm able to actually get the cards and test them out.
1x Hundred-Handed One
1x Gleam of Authority
1x Glorious Anthem
Blue
1x Talrand, Sky Summoner
1x Prognostic Sphinx
1x Mahamoti Djinn
Black
1x Undead Gladiator
1x Necrosavant
1x Void Maw
1x Goblin Guide
1x Starstorm
1x Hammer of Bogardan
Green
1x Kazandu Tuskcaller
1x Quirion Dryad
1x Call of the Herd
1x Reverent Hunter
1x Shadowmage Infiltrator
Rakdos
1x Tymaret, the Murder King
Selesnya
1x Gavony Township
Simic
1x Mystic Snake
Colourless
1x Solemn Simulacrum
1x Erratic Portal
1x Mana Confluence
The cards I'm least sure of are Hammer of Bogardan and Quirion Dryad. The former I'm hoping will find a place in a more control-oriented version of the spells matter deck, but maybe it's just too slow. The latter I think is probably more fair than Managorger Hydra (?), but the Miracle-Gro shenanigans still might be too much.
Gavony Township is one I'd considered too, but I'm concerned it'd just dominate the long game too much. Worth testing for sure, and GW is often a less popular color combo so maybe it could use a card of that power level.
My cube discussion thread
Hundred-Handed one is included because it has 100 hands. It is fine, even if it is ahead of the typical peasant curve on plain stats. (The only 3/5's for CMC=4 in peasant are apparently Balduvian Fallen and Wall of Swords. EDIT: And Scarwood Treefolk)
Talrand, as I mentioned earlier, is good but not problematic. I think it is a good example of a rare to include in Peasant. It does something good for a given archetype and is strong but doesn't feel out of place in any way.
Call of the Herd always ends up getting milled/looted and flashed back for value, and it feels good.
Kazandu Tuskcaller is very good and wins games, but for now I think it is overall OK. I included it to play a role in a WG tokens/populate deck, but it has actually performed best in UG(x) decks that can protect it with counterspells. It can win the game for any deck at any time if not answered of course, but the prospect of having it die in response to the second level up makes it risky. I would be interested to hear what you have to say about it, my concern is that it is too swingy, but as I said, for now my impression is that it is fine.
Of the cards in your list, the ones I'd be concerned about are Gavony Township, Solemn Simulacrum and Erratic Portal.
I remember playing against the portal back when it came out, and it is hard. You always have to leave 2 mana up to avoid having your creatures getting bounced, you have a hard time killing your opponent's creatures, and they get to abuse ETB stuff.
The Township will probably depend a lot on the average speed of your cube, but of course it is sick if it gets going.
Solemn probably doesn't break anything, but it is a three for one that ramps and fixes in any colour.
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
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Good point about Hundred-Handed One, I hadn't given too much consideration to the base stats. I was also thinking about Commander Eesha for this slot, but decided it was a bit too close to Seraph of Dawn for my tastes (though I suppose it fills a pretty different role, on reflection).
As far as the Dryad, it wasn't just the dedicated three color decks I was worried about, but also the fact that any two color could splash green for it and make it big without much effort. I guess the lack of evasion and slow rate of growth may balance it out in those situations though.
But yeah, Gavony Township probably deserves closer attention than I was thinking... Thanks for the feedback.
As far as Ant Queen, I don't think it's too far off, but compared to Jade Mage it's a quick value-generator that's much tougher. I would imagine that how much better it is depends on how strong your removal options are.
http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/42030
I haven't looked at it in a minute, blue in particular hasn't found its entire identity, but you get the idea
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Haha, that's true. I guess I don't have the Painful Memories of playing against that with Tempest and Mirage era power-level creatures though:-)
My gut feeling on Ant Queen vs Jade Mage is that the Queen is too much, but maybe not. It is probably an "answer me now or lose" card, so it depends how many of those you want. The mage has flexibility in that it can work as a suboptimal two-drop when you need it to, but it also has value later. The Ant is not flexible like that, but unlike the mage, it's late game value is not only tied to the token-generation, it also has a relevant body. Plus, it survives burn, pingers and most (all?) black -x/-x effects.
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EDIT: Just had a look at some cards. Quicksilver Elemental. Now this surely fits into the "Rares with unique effects" category, and its base stats and general powerlevel are certainly not out of bounds for peasant. (Compare with the recent Cyclone Sire). I'm intrigued. How often will it do nothing though .. ? Hmm.
EDITEDIT: Had another look at what abilities it could typically copy. Enclave Cryptologist. Just to make sure I understand the rules interactions: Quicksilver Elemental can gain any activated abilities the cryptologist has. So if it is level 0, there are no looting or draw abilities there to be copied. If it is level 3+, then both abilities would be available to the QE. In all cases, the level up mechanic would be available for the QE, but it would be irrelevant. You could activate it, and it would put level counters on the QE, but they wouldn't do anything. Specifically, the QE would not need to have the appropriate number of level counters to activate any of the loot/draw abilities. It's ability to activate those abilities would be 100% determined by the number of level counters on the Cryptologist. Correct?
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
Dragon Hunter
Elite Vanguard
Expedition Envoy
Isamaru, Hound of Konda
Mardu Woe-Reaper
Mother of Runes
Savannah Lions
Soldier of the Pantheon
Steppe Lynx
Accorder Paladin
Consul's Lieutenant
Kor Skyfisher
Lone Missionary
Porcelain Legionnaire
Ronom Unicorn
Seeker of the Way
Soltari Monk
Soltari Priest
Soltari Trooper
Topan Freeblade
Wall of Omens
Attended Knight
Banisher Priest
Flickerwisp
Kor Hookmaster
Midnight Haunting
Paladin en-Vec
Pianna, Nomad Captain
Soltari Champion
Spectral Procession
Emeria Angel
Guardian of the Guildpact
Kor Sanctifiers
Battlegrace Angel
Cloudgoat Ranger
Custodi Squire
Radiant, Archangel
Sentinel of the Eternal Watch
Angel of Serenity
Enlightened Tutor
Mana Tithe
Path to Exile
Swords to Plowshares
Blind Obedience
Disenchant
Journey to Nowhere
Seal of Cleansing
Banishing Light
Ghostly Prison
Glorious Anthem
Lashknife Barrier
Mobilization
Oblivion Ring
Blinding Beam
Faith's Fetters
Planar Outburst
Austere Command
Decree of Justice
Martial Coup
Kjeldoran Outpost
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
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I like the one drops: Soldier of the Pantheon has a unique ability that isn't too far off of Mardu Woe-Reaper, and Isamaru, Hound of Konda seems fair as long as you don't mind having a strictly-better Savannah Lions.
Paladin en-Vec seems fine, I'm just personally not a fan of specific color hosing. (The Soltari brothers fit into this same category)
Emeria Angel and Battlegrace Angel I think are a bit above curve (compare Battle Screech, Radiant, Archangel) but could be okay.
The enchantments also look okay: Mobilization seems fairly costed (though tougher to remove than Jade Mage), and Blind Obedience looks like a more cubeable Kismet (though it sort of hoses the Fires deck if you support that).
Kjeldoran Outpost and Decree of Justice are a bit tough for me to evaluate. My feeling is that they're alright: the former is limited to one token per turn like Squirrel Nest. The second requires a ton of mana to use effectively, but the fact that you can cycle it as an instant could make it pretty good (I imagine paying for the primary cost will be pretty rare).
Angel of Serenity and Martial Coup seem like absolute houses. Both have huge impacts on your opponent's board AND leave you with significant bodies yourself. They're expensive, yeah, but 7 mana is not that terribly high, and the vast majority of the time they will probably win you the game on the spot.
I would also play it more cautious with the Wrath effects, and probably only include one to start for testing. I may also reduce the power level: Austere Command in particular seems easy to turn into a huge lopsided play. Maybe Planar Cleansing, as it requires 6 mana and heavy white commitment, or Mageta the Lion, since he takes up a lot of resources and can be answered by opponents?
Something like Battlegrace is definitely not good enough for even the largest of rare cubes, but I agree that it does feel a little pushed for this type of format. With that said, though, I still think I want something with a little more 'oomph' than just regular old Serra Angel in that slot. I like Emeria Angel. She can get out of hand, but you're typically only getting one token per turn and probably not until turn five. Any suggestions for something else to play that falls between the power level of Serra Angel and Battlegrace Angel?
I like cards like Mobilization and wish I could find more like this. It feels like the this format's equivalent of a planeswalker.
Kjeldoran Outpost, I think, will be right at home in this format. It's slow, it doesn't progress your land drops, and it only makes one token each turn. I think it'll be solid for control decks that want a grindy finisher or for token decks that want to crank out a creature each turn. Decree is iffy. It's borderline good enough for rare cube, but I felt like it fell far enough behind Secure the Wastes on power level that it might be ok here.
I also agree on Angel of Serenity and Martial Coup. Again, though, this is where this white is lacking in this format. Big finishers and sweepers. Something like Planar Cleansing might be a better route to take over the Coup. Any ideas for big white finishers? I want something that will appeal to ramp decks, reanimation decks, and WX control decks.
I ran Austere Command in my rare cube for a good while and it was a lot harder to make it one sided that it looks. It earned the nickname Awkward Command for a reason. Mageta might be an ok replacement there. Discarding two cards seems rough, but maybe that's the gray area in power level that I'm looking for.
Thanks again for the response.
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
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Looking through white 5 drops, Archon of Redemption isn't flashy but could do work in WU Skies. Archon of Justice seems really solid (maybe a bit much, but the death trigger is tougher to take advantage of than ETB), and I really like the pseudo-Reconnaissance effect of Gustcloak Savior, which lets wider decks swing in with a deal of impunity. Scion of Vitu-Ghazi is about on par with Cloudgoat Ranger, but gets better if you're in GW tokens.
As far as curve-toppers I think it's a bit tougher to hit the right power level. Karmic Guide appeals to reanimation but is perhaps not good enough. Requiem Angel is great in tokens and better in sacrifice, but kind of blows Pawn of Ulamog out of the water. Luminous Angel is probably too slow. Yosei, the Morning Star is above curve and can provide a huge swing.
Luminate Primordial and Celestial Archon might be closer. The first seems more fair than Angel of Serenity, and the second can be a good creature for 5 or an awesome sticky creature for 7 (with the downside of potentially getting 2-for-1'd if your opponent has enchantment removal, but most is sorcery speed in this format).
I'm having second thoughts about Paladin en-Vec. Not because I have anything against the protections, but because I wonder if he's good enough when playing against decks that aren't those specific colors. A 2/2 first strike for 1WW? Probably not. I'm thinking I'd like Fabled Hero in that slot a little more.
I also dropped Austere Command for Mageta the Lion, which I'm still a little iffy about. He requires so much work that I fear he wouldn't even be played. I could be wrong on that one, though. And I updated the two actual wrath effects to be Kirtar's Wrath and Winds of Rath. I like Kirtar's Wrath because it's six mana and because it only destroys creatures. And you only get a couple of 1/1 spirits after the fact, so it's not super broken or hard to deal with. To be honest, I wish we'd just get a Day of Judgement at six mana with no extra special abilities like this tacked onto the end. That would be great.
So, as of now, the rares for my white section to shore up a few holes for white in peasant (at least in my opinion) are these:
Isamaru, Hound of Konda
Savannah Lions (kinda)
Soldier of the Pantheon
Pianna, Nomad Captain (if you're not counting the online only printings)
Banisher Priest
Fabled Hero
Soltari Champion (online only)
Emeria Angel (possibly too powerful, but I think it's worth the risk to try it out)
Mageta the Lion
Radiant, Archangel (online only)
Angel of Retribution (could be swapped for Luminate Primordial)
Blind Obedience
Glorious Anthem
Mobilization
Winds of Rath
Kirtar's Wrath
Decree of Justice (also possibly too powerful)
Kjeldoran Outpost
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
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Final Judgment? Assume that fits the bill unless the exile clause matters.
Here is my current working rare list for blue. What do you guys think? Anything stand out as too powerful here?
The thing I found with blue is that most of the really good counters and cheap draw spells are already C/U legal. The one thing I'd like to find is something to help fill out the 3cc creature slot. I like Tandem Lookout and Jhessian Thief okay enough in Peasant, but I'd like to have something above that power level, but not quite up to par with True-Name Nemesis or Vendilion Clique.
Edit: Here's a short list for possible worthy 3cc blue guys.
Here's the full blue list:
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
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Vexing Sphinx is really interesting and might not be as bad as the upkeep cost sounds, given that you get the extra age counter before you have to sac it. It basically works out to something like:
Beyond that you start rapidly losing card advantage, so I'd imagine it sticks around as a 3-mana 4/4 flyer for 2-3 turns most of the time. If it eats a kill spell it changes the math for the worse, but it's still not horrible. E.g. you pay twice, discarding three cards total, then they Murder it. You lose the Sphinx and the three discarded cards, then draw two, so you're down two cards but maybe up slightly in tempo from the 4/4 body and card quality if you had chaff to discard. They're down just the kill spell, so it does work as a 2-for-1 for them.
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