MTG Salvation

This edition is kinda complicated. There are no real powerhouses, but some cards could support archetypes like tokens. Im not sure if I want to extend the token archetype into blue, though. Allys also might become a thing.


fresh spoiled cards i think are interesting

Shatterskull Recruit - bolt proof and semi-evasion. also red lacks some higher cc creatures
Vestige of Emrakul - seems solid
Reclaiming Vines - a common creeping mold

Quote from Dismember »

I like the idea of Coralhelm Guide, but I'm not sure if there is room for it.

I don't think that Skyspawner is that great. Yeah its strong, but it's competing with other blue 3s. It might find a place for me but it'll be tough.

I don't know how many 3 drops you run, but here are the ones that I think are significantly better than Skyspawner:
- Man-o'-war / Aether Adept
- Calcite Snapper
- Stitched Drake (not sure about this one, never tried it)

The next few cards I think are on par with Skyspawner:
- Pestermite
- Sea Gate Oracle (might be worse than it)

The rest of blue's 3 drops I think are worse than it. I will be cutting Aether Adept because I don't like running cards that are strictly worse than other cards in the cube.

On the whole this set came out a lot better than I expected for us.

ondu greathorn seems playable but not exciting

kor castigator eat your heart out dromoka warrior I guess

brilliant spectrum and tajuru stalwart are very narrow support for the green-based 4 color deck. I'll probably cube them

wave-wing elemental is cubable

voracious null is cubable with a sacrifice archetype, the sorcery speed restriction is really sad but that's probably what allows this card to be a common

boiling earth is cubable if you like interesting cards and support red control. I don't realistically expect anyone to use this but you totally could

valakut predator is cubable

I see some of you guys play scatter the seeds and eyeless watcher is comparable

This plus all the previously mentioned stuff is not a bad haul.

Clutch of Currents seems like it could be a really potent win condition for a deck running both Archaeomancer and Mnemonic Wall. I think it might be worth running over Aven Surveyor. Its more support for the spells matter archetype.

not sure what to think of Clutch of Currents

5mana 3/3 with an upkeep cost of 1. Would be another addition to the "bounce" archetype, but seems a bit inefficient.

Clutch can be a 3/3 haste for 6 also. That synergies very well with the bounce. The same turn you remove a blocker, you attack with aditional power.

I'm surprised that they printed Clutch AND Rush of Ice on the same expansion. They are so alike that one would expect them to be on part one and part two of the block.

Swell of Growth is a big underestimated card. I really like it.

Oh, and if the landfall creatures are as good as they seem, I could break the singleton rule to include 5 different Evolving Wilds in my cube.

Clutch is not as good as Aethersnipe in my opinion, but if you care more about spell synergies more than creature synergies I think it's cubable.

Beliggerent Whiptail looks like a better Sabertooth Outrider, for those who were playing the later.
And Valakut Predator seems even better.

Ondu Greathorn is not bad either. I think that maybe these Landfall guy are what aggro needed to be a serious option in my cube.

Ghostly Sentinel is the closest to Serra Angel that we will ever get, and Serra is a Peasant Bomb. Even when is not as easy to cast as Misthoof Kirin, the 3rd point of thoughnes is very relevant. It takes over the skyes and remains ready to block lots of flying creatures (and stay alive).

a 3/3 is miles away from a 4/4

Yeah but powerlevel of peasant is miles away from pauper.

And from my understanding Serra Angel is on the low end when it comes to white 5 drops in peasant, behind Cloudgoat Ranger, Custodi Squire, and Elite Scaleguard. Serra Angel would be a solid card for pauper, but I wouldn't play a 3/3 version of it for the same cost. If Ghostly Sentinel were a 3/4, then I would run it, but as it is, its just not good enough.

As for the comparison between the awaken bounce spell and Aethersnipe, the awaken spell is a 3/3 with haste for the same cost as Aethersnipe, and it "evokes" for less mana, but is slightly more narrow. I don't really care for either card, but I think they are relatively close in power level.

Kozilek's Channeler - nice second option for ramp alongside Elvish Aberration.

Ghostly Sentinel - also nice, but hardly necessary when compared to the top white 5s.

Gideon's Reproach - mostly better than Puncturing Light. Not sure how it stacks up against white's best though.

Kor Castigator - a slightly more relevant ability would be aces. Could have been Spawn and Scions for no real change, for example.

Makindi Patrol - a bit underwhelming for me. Very board-dependent.

Ondu Greathorn / Belligerent Whiptail - 4 power first strike for 4 mana is no joke. I'm happy if I can swing with these twice.

Sheer Drop - the poster child for Awaken removal, but I like the other Awaken options more.

Tandem Tactics - like Symbiosis, a fantastic combat trick to run.

Anticipate - a reprint, but some pretty amazing art.

Clutch of Currents - one of my top 5 commons for this set. Throwing this out on turn 5 is not great since your land will be tapped, but 3/3 feels so good. Turn 6 with haste is delicious, and occasionally it's just Unsummon when you want to keep pressuring.

Coralhelm Guide - very mana intensive, not a remarkable body. I'd rather play something with better stats, and use other spells to force damage through.

Eldrazi Skyspawner - another Ghirapur Gearcrafter, but actually better since the bigger butt has evasion and the smaller butt has another use as ramp. A top 5 card for me.

Rush of Ice - mentally ruined for me by Clutch of Currents in the same set, but arguably still pretty good.

Wave-Wing Elemental - casting cost is not in a sweet spot for landfall, and it doesn't get enough of a boost to warrant the effect.

Geyserfield Stalker / Shatterskull Recruit - Not really ideal for me. Expensive cost with bad stats.

Sludge Crawler - a touch too mana-intensive to see regular play in my cube.

Voracious Null - I'd rather run Phyrexian Ghoul. Sorcery speed + 1B activation cost is one drawback too many.

Makindi Sliderunner / Snapping Gnarlid - 3 power dudes for 2 mana. Serviceable. I'll take Gnarlid over Sliderunner for the survivablity though.

Valakut Predator - bring on the 4 power. At only three mana, this is another top 5 common for me.

Vestige of Emrakul - stats are slightly above curve, but it just doesn't do anything particularly useful. It blocks Centaur Coursers well, I guess.

Blisterpod - cool card. I'm a fan of Tukatongue Thallid, but this seems more on the level of Doomed Traveler.

Call the Scions - I like Growth Spasm more.

Eyeless Watcher - testable card. Doesn't do anything too crazy, but seven mana on turn 5 can be fun.

Reclaiming Vines - Creeping Mold at common! Very cool. Just a reprint, but this kind of effect is super valuable for me.

Tajuru Stalwart - 3/4 for 3 is above the curve, but difficult to achieve. I never want to play it as anything else, so this makes it strictly a tricolor creature. Simian Grunts, Stitched Drake, and Zombie Cutthroat are all easier to cast and bring other bonuses, so that's the kind of card I want. Domain needs bombs that are more than just vanilla mid-sized beaters, because that's already being done by monocolor cards.

Fertile Thicket, Looming Spires, Mortuary Mire, Sandstone Bridge, Skyline Cascade - I love the black, white and blue ones, with potential situations where green and red can be useful.

TL;DR My top five would be:
1. Eldrazi Skyspawner
2. Clutch of Currents
3. Mortuary Mire, Sandstone Bridge, Skyline Cascade
4. Valakut Predator
5. Tandem Tactics

Honorable mention: Blisterpod

Conclusion: Blue makes out like a bandit with two legit cards and a spell land, while the other colors each get at least one new toy to play with. Black was the loser in this expansion with only the spell land standing out from the pack, but Mortuary Mire should more than make up for it

Quote from MartV »

Benthic Infiltrator (I think my intial excitement about the latter came from the fact that I have been looking for lowcosted defensive bodies for my Ravnica cube, though I would still run it before Updraft Elemental

This is really minor especially in the context of this thread, BUT, why? I think updraft elemental is actually cubable. Benthic infiltrator is so much worse.

Being able to block fliers is so much better than being extra-unblockable (updraft still has evasion when attacking) on a 1 power creature whose main job will be blocking for a controlling blue deck.

Being colorless doesn't matter.
Ingest doesn't matter unless you to try to force some exile-matters subtheme which there is almost zero support for.

Now if you argue that benthic infiltrator is way cooler and has better art then I can respect that.

My top "5" would be:
1. Eldrazi Skyspawner
2. Snapping Gnarlid / Makindi Sliderunner
3. Mortuary Mire / Skyline Cascade
4. Reclaiming Vines
5. Call the Scions

I think the Skyspawner is by far the best card in the set. The landfall beasts are great aggro cards in their respective colors. The U/B spell lands seem to be the strongest effects out of the cycle, but I could see the W/R ones being playable as well. Maybe the green one is playable, but I doubt it will be good enough. Creeping Mold is a solid card, and Reclaiming Vines is just that but now a common. I really want to support land destruction in green, so hopefully we get some more flexible land destruction cards like this one at common. I think Call the Scions is being underrated, and is definitely more versitile than Growth Spasm. Scions may be the worse ramp spell, but it makes twice as many tokens, and those tokens actually are relevant in combat.

I really don't see the appeal of Valakut Predator. Without landfall its just bad, unlike the 2 drop beasts which are at least serviceable without it. Another card I might be underrating is Clutch of Currents, but I really dislike sorcery speed bounce.

Also, I think that Looming Spires is the 3rd best spell land, as it helps get your attackers through unblocked, unlike Sandstone Bridge. I think the times that Sandstone Bridge will be useful will be extremely situational because vigilance requires your creature to be able to both attack and block profitably, whereas Looming Spires will always be decent because the opponent can't block profitably unless they have a fairly large creature.

Edit: I actually like the art on Updraft Elemental more than the infiltrator...

I think Updraft Elemental is a pretty awesome card, personally. The new 1/4 I don't see doing much.

I agree that the blue flier is very likely the "best" common for Pauper but I think the two landfall beaters are arguably more influential. Those three are the only clear cut 360 cards.

As an aside, I actually thought Bramblecrush had been printed as a common at some point which would be functionally the same as the new card, but apparently I was wrong about that.

To add some context, pauper really doesn't get four power for three mana, much less with four toughness attached! There's mostly just goofy stuff like Fault Riders, Spur Grappler, Skittering Horror or Ulvenwald Bear, which all come with hefty restrictions that change how you play. Valakut Predator, like Calcite Snapper, just asks you to play Magic

I also wanted to put Reclaiming Vines and the landfall bears as top 5 cards, but thought the slots should go to more unique cards

Usually i'm extremely confident in my ability to evaluate cards for this format but I'm embarrassingly not sure how valakut predator stacks up against our other 2R aggressive creatures.

Would you pick it over boggart brute? What about splatter thug? Others?

The problem is context. Against the usuals, Fault Rider et al, it is not good enough. First Strike is just so good early. I would akin it to the Ruinous Minotaur; it is personal preference. 4/4 consistently is great, but I estimate in aggro, you bet 2 land drops bedore it putters out.

I'm not seeing the value in Fault Riders these days. There's the two-fer potential, for one. It's almost never correct to throw lands at the opponent's face, which makes him a pseudo-unblockable Gray Ogre outside of creature combat. Even then, how many lands can you afford to sac before it affects your ability to develop? Two? Three? That would put him right in line with the Predator, wouldn't it?

There is not a 3 drop in my cube that I would pass up to pick Valakut Predator. Not saying that its a bad card, as it certainly has potential. My issue with it is that I like to run low land counts in my red aggro decks (I usually run 15, maybe 16 depending on how many 4+ cost cards I have), and Valakut Predator require you to draw 4 lands before it ever becomes useful. For my aggro decks topend, I would rather have abilities like Fervent Cathar and Goblin Heelcutter that provide some reach, instead of beating face with a 4/4. If Valakut Predator were a green card, I would be much more likely to consider it, but I think it doesn't do enough for red aggro.

These are my thoughts on the new cards.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/the-cube-forum/articles-podcasts-and-guides/634317-battle-for-zendikar-pauper-cube-review-5oul

I think minotaur skullcleaver is also good, especially for a deck that's trying to be really fast. There are too many 2R creatures I want to play. I never liked fault riders much though.

Seems like a bunch of you like blisterpod, it seems worse than young wolf to me though, and nobody cubes young wolf. I think a 2/2 is usually better than an eldrazi scion, am I wrong?

I cube Young Wolf I think he's good in most green decks.

I cube Young Wolf too. It's doing well. Most of the time, it attacking once or twice, than it becomes a blocker to attack with 2 power later on. And he is a loveable Sac-Fuel for things like Golgari-Decks.

I have mixed feelings about Eldrazi Skyspawner; I recongize the raw power of the card, even beating other CC3 creatures-with-token.

But there are already 2 other creatures soo similar in other colours, and I don't see a token/swarm archetype in blue (and I don't want it, either). That without counting that I don't like the art (is not that it is bad, but I don't see it reflecting the body of the card).

Something similar happens with the new green token stuff. They could make a token strategy available in green, but I'm quite sure I don't want Tokens to be a thing outside WRb.