Hello all, Bibbo here. Firstly, I've never built any cube (besides net decking a Cubelet from LRR) so I'm completely inexperienced in making a cube. One of my first questions is where should I start? I have a pretty large collection of commons/uncommons from Innistrad and up to today (at least 2000 per color) so finding cards shouldn't be too hard of an issue so I'm not worried about that. What I am concerned about is creating synergies within the cube. How do I go about doing this? Should I start off with a mechanical theme for the ten color combinations and work from there? Should I just put "good stuff" commons and uncommons in the cube and hope for the best? If net-decking someone else's cube is the best idea I'll also do that. So just wanting some advice and help on cube construction. Thanks!
Hello there, I too am relatively new to cubing (I just enjoy limited too much). I have found the places to start are cube size (360, 450 and 720 are the most common, I am finishing a 540 myself), power level (power nine and dual lands? pauper? etc.) and then if you want to theme the cube or just include good stuff.
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“Your body is not a temple, it's an amusement park. Enjoy the ride.”
― Anthony Bourdain, Kitchen Confidential
I will always firmly stand by the belief that Magic is a game first and a collectable second.
The first decision is probably cube size and what restrictions you want. It sounds like you're into Peasant so you're already part way there.
Most people on this forum "net deck" their cube to an extent. You'll be hard pressed to find a poster here who's not running cards like Shriekmaw or Mulldrifter or Rancor or Mother of Runes or Lightning Bolt. The advantage of doing so is that a lot of the work in cube design has already been done by others with more experience than you. Cards that might look good but aren't have probably been tested already and some cards that look bad but are good have also been found. With thousands of cards to choose from in each colour, having an already charted "meta" is a huge help.
That said, if I were to build a cube out of soley cards I own, I'd probably do the following steps:
Determine my size and restrictions (360 is probably a good start. Larger cube means weaker cards and more work to assemble the cube and start playing).
Make a rough shell for the cube (cards per colour, cards per gold, land count, how many creatures in each colour, removal count, stuff like that)
Make a first pass filling in the shell. Aim to include cards based on raw power at this stage.
Itterate on this version of the cube, test it and find what cards do not pull their weight.
Work out what synergies and archetypes this "strong card cube" has.
Try to accentuate these synergies by replacing the under-performing cards with cards which help the synergy. This is how you build strong archetypes, rather than jamming 15 cards into two colours which do things unrelated to the other cards in those colours. Try to use cards which have applications outside the archetype too. Too many heavily specialized cards with narrow application start to poison packs.
Test some more! and repeat.
The process never really ends, there will always be something to tinker with. Welcome to cube design!
I think the biggest piece of advice I can give is just emphasizing one of the things that n00b1n8r mentioned - build it for real and test it! The best way to figure out what additions/subtractions make sense for your cube and your cube group is to build some version of a cube and then start to get in real games with it, at which point you can start iterating as described above. Don't worry about making it "perfect" from the start, just get something reasonable and start playing games, the rest comes naturally after that.
I'd just grab about 40 of the most interesting cards you have of each color, maybe 20 artifacts, and 2ish multicolored cards from each color pair, and work from there. It should be playable off the bat, and should give you a reasonable look at what drafting will be like.
To expand, you can look at just about any cube here and see which cards are strong. Like n00b1n8r said these are pretty well established - your Lingering Souls, Cloudgoat Ranger, Grafted Wargear, etc. but what will make your cube more cohesive would be looking at some of the cards you want to sculpt gameplay - build-around cards like Coastal Piracy, Gelectrode, Blood Artist or Aura Gnarlid and add cards that do interesting things with them or that make them shine - specifically looking for synergistic cards which are also good on their own. Krosan Tusker and reanimation/graveyard effects comes to mind, or Mulldrifter and Crystal Shard. It could very well be worth breaking singleton to make those synergies possible.
You may have already done this research, but you may have noticed that some of the threads here have a coloured prefix in front of them. Right now there is one on the first page that has 'Peasant Archetype' as the prefix. Click that coloured prefix, and it will load all of the threads that have that prefix. There is a thread for all of the colour pairs, plus some other discussions about some individual archetypes.
Those can help figure out what sort of synergies you want, as opposed to just 'good cards'. I'd suggest start with 1 of these archetypes, but you probably want a primary one and a secondary one in each colour pair. Finding cards that fit multiple archetypes is something to look out for, but sometimes cards that are naturally good get even better in some of those decks (like Mulldrifter in a Crystal Shard deck as midnight baker has suggested).
As revengeanceful said, playing games is how you really start to shape your cube. For example, I've taken out Grafted Wargear because I think it is too powerful and a windmill slam pick that requires little thought in drafting; others love it because of its power and demands people plan for artifact removal. Some of these things you won't know until you've got some games under your belt, and your cube will keep evolving over time.
Thanks for the helpful answers. Another question though. I'm building a small cube (~360 cards) and I'm wondering how many lands I should have sleeved and ready for deckbuilding. I'm thinking 35 - 40 per color but I'm wondering your opinions.
I have 30 each and have at least once run out of a certain basic, so I'd recommend something in the 35-40 range if you're going to be regularly drafting with 8 people.
40 of each land has been working for me for quite a long time. I haven't run out once.
As for another question in your original post about double sleeving: best decision I've made. I use KMC perfect fits inside of KMC mattes. It keeps the cards in great shape and makes shuffling a breeze. It's a bit time consuming and will probably cost you around $100 at first to get them all double sleeved, but it's definitely worth the financial and time investment.
Don't pack your cube full to the gills with removal. Too much and you end up with games where one player cannot untap with a threat or even a blocker and dies to a 2/2 he can't answer.
40 of each land has been working for me for quite a long time. I haven't run out once.
As for another question in your original post about double sleeving: best decision I've made. I use KMC perfect fits inside of KMC mattes. It keeps the cards in great shape and makes shuffling a breeze. It's a bit time consuming and will probably cost you around $100 at first to get them all double sleeved, but it's definitely worth the financial and time investment.
How much thickness does doublesleeving add? I finished sleeving last night and 360+200 lands and sleeved tokens barely fits in my 1000 card bcw box.
Your cards become effectively spill proof (that's the main advantage) and have effectively 0% chance of ever getting damaged by anything rubbing on their face.
I think those are the main advantages? Some people like how they shuffle better than single sleeves, some hate how they shuffle.
You can look up some videos on youtube if you want to know what it looks like.
The main advantages for me are:
- Cards protected from liquids spilling over them.
- Cards protected from damage at the top of the card, which usually happens when cards are normally sleeved and you play with them a lot.
- Shuffling feels a lot better.
It does depends on the value of your cards. It cost quite a lot to double sleeve if your using quality sleeves so at first I found it unnecessary. However, when I started to seriously pimp my cube and add cards like Imperial Recruiter, Berserk and Old Man of the Sea I though it worth the investment.
P.S. Do you recommend double sleeving?
― Anthony Bourdain, Kitchen Confidential
I will always firmly stand by the belief that Magic is a game first and a collectable second.
Most people on this forum "net deck" their cube to an extent. You'll be hard pressed to find a poster here who's not running cards like Shriekmaw or Mulldrifter or Rancor or Mother of Runes or Lightning Bolt. The advantage of doing so is that a lot of the work in cube design has already been done by others with more experience than you. Cards that might look good but aren't have probably been tested already and some cards that look bad but are good have also been found. With thousands of cards to choose from in each colour, having an already charted "meta" is a huge help.
That said, if I were to build a cube out of soley cards I own, I'd probably do the following steps:
Draft it on Cubetutor here, and CubeCobra here.
Treasure Cruise did nothing wrong.
CubeTutor: www.cubetutor.com/cubeblog/72
Thread: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=512410
To expand, you can look at just about any cube here and see which cards are strong. Like n00b1n8r said these are pretty well established - your Lingering Souls, Cloudgoat Ranger, Grafted Wargear, etc. but what will make your cube more cohesive would be looking at some of the cards you want to sculpt gameplay - build-around cards like Coastal Piracy, Gelectrode, Blood Artist or Aura Gnarlid and add cards that do interesting things with them or that make them shine - specifically looking for synergistic cards which are also good on their own. Krosan Tusker and reanimation/graveyard effects comes to mind, or Mulldrifter and Crystal Shard. It could very well be worth breaking singleton to make those synergies possible.
Those can help figure out what sort of synergies you want, as opposed to just 'good cards'. I'd suggest start with 1 of these archetypes, but you probably want a primary one and a secondary one in each colour pair. Finding cards that fit multiple archetypes is something to look out for, but sometimes cards that are naturally good get even better in some of those decks (like Mulldrifter in a Crystal Shard deck as midnight baker has suggested).
As revengeanceful said, playing games is how you really start to shape your cube. For example, I've taken out Grafted Wargear because I think it is too powerful and a windmill slam pick that requires little thought in drafting; others love it because of its power and demands people plan for artifact removal. Some of these things you won't know until you've got some games under your belt, and your cube will keep evolving over time.
CubeTutor: www.cubetutor.com/cubeblog/72
Thread: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=512410
I move to strike!!
My Peasant Cube thread !!! (380 cards)
Draft my Peasant Cube on Cube Cobra !!!
As for another question in your original post about double sleeving: best decision I've made. I use KMC perfect fits inside of KMC mattes. It keeps the cards in great shape and makes shuffling a breeze. It's a bit time consuming and will probably cost you around $100 at first to get them all double sleeved, but it's definitely worth the financial and time investment.
My Peasant Cube thread !!! (380 cards)
Draft my Peasant Cube on Cube Cobra !!!
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
9 full art zendikar foil * 4 arts = 36 total.
How much thickness does doublesleeving add? I finished sleeving last night and 360+200 lands and sleeved tokens barely fits in my 1000 card bcw box.
Different art basics?
Draft it on Cubetutor here, and CubeCobra here.
Treasure Cruise did nothing wrong.
My C/Ube on Cube Cobra
9 of http://magiccards.info/zen/en/242.html
9 of http://magiccards.info/zen/en/243.html
9 of http://magiccards.info/zen/en/244.html
9 of http://magiccards.info/zen/en/245.html
All foil of course, and the same for the other lands.
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
I think those are the main advantages? Some people like how they shuffle better than single sleeves, some hate how they shuffle.
Draft it on Cubetutor here, and CubeCobra here.
Treasure Cruise did nothing wrong.
The main advantages for me are:
- Cards protected from liquids spilling over them.
- Cards protected from damage at the top of the card, which usually happens when cards are normally sleeved and you play with them a lot.
- Shuffling feels a lot better.
It does depends on the value of your cards. It cost quite a lot to double sleeve if your using quality sleeves so at first I found it unnecessary. However, when I started to seriously pimp my cube and add cards like Imperial Recruiter, Berserk and Old Man of the Sea I though it worth the investment.
My C/Ube on Cube Cobra
T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t