I think the half's would more often be a consensus thing. It's harder to rate cards to half points but I just didn't think Lava Spike deserved a whole star
So I have a list of archetypes that I've primarily pulled from a number of threads here, mainly the ones started by blacksmithy related to archetypes for colour pairs. But for most of those archetypes, there is often a variant in other colours, particularly where the anchor cards in an archetype are mostly in one colour. Thinking maybe should group some of them together when they share a common theme. Some cards might be good in all aggro decks with that colour, but some might only be good in specific types of aggro builds for example.
I can elaborate on some of the names if required, and some might be fringe archetypes that you would never play in a million years, but they are at least possible with the card pool.
Thoughts on how to categorise these appreciated; try and think about it from a card evaluation perspective. If you had to list a card as being an anchor or support for an archetype or set of archetypes, what would you put?
I'm ready to start moving to card evaluations, using the previous card rankings, and including a 0.5 score as an option when consensus can't be reached. The next step is deciding how to proceed with card selection and discussion. I see two options;
Option 1
I list a bunch of cards and then generate discussion, possibly giving my rankings for all of the cards as a starting point (though I suspect mine will be off from time to time, but that should generate discussion anyway).
Option 2
For anyone wanting to be a primary participant, divide the list into chunks and PM each of those people their chunk of the list. They can come back when ready and post their completed list for others to comment on.
Regardless of method, I'd encourage anyone to participate, even if it is just dropping in from time to time. I'm thinking starting with 1 CC cards and moving up. When exploring each casting cost, start with a colour, and divide that into creatures and spells. Then move onto the next colour. Once all 1CC cards are done, move up to 2 CC and start the cycle again. Size of card list can be changed based on response; don't want to make it too small so it takes forever, but don't want to make it too large so cards don't get discussed in enough detail.
I put together the below with the intent to replace the original post to give some guidance on the evaluation of cards.
Probably the main one I wanted to confirm with collaborators is the stance on interactivity. If you throw protection on anything it is more powerful in a general sense, so assume it should be be valued as such. Or particularly in the case of protection and landwalk do we just ignore it when evaluating power level and people can make up their own minds about whether they include this stuff? My assumption based on conversations here is that most don't include them in their cube, but I feel it might not be fair to just rate those cards as bad or exclude them.
Assume particularly egregious cards (Invisible Stalker) can have their lack of interactivity mentioned in their description.
Thoughts?
Welcome to this ongoing project! Our goal is to evaluate the cards you might want to include in your peasant cube. If you are looking at this thread for the first time, feel free to join in the current conversation.
It goes without saying that every cube is different. Each cube owner has their own views on a number of factors that influence their cube environment. As such, the following baseline or general guides are used for these evaluations.
General Power over Colour Pie / Flavour
Some people shape their cube based on their perspective of the colour pie, and include/exclude certain functions and flavour for each colour. Maybe you don’t want green to have flyers. Maybe you will never play Ray of Command because you think only red should have temporary creature stealing. Maybe you really want to push green counterspells. None of these considerations are taken into account for the purpose of these evaluations. Only the general power level of the card.
Interactivity
This is an extension of the above. There are some cards that do not lend themselves to interactivity with the opponent. Protection, landwalk, shadow, unblockability and hexproof are some examples. For some, these are powerful and will be valued as such. For others they can be random hosers which your opponent may feel unfair for choosing the wrong colour while drafting, or don’t promote the type of gameplay they desire. If that’s you, then ignore those cards.
Rarities
Some cards have only been released online as uncommons, but don’t have a printed version. Some older cards have some questionable rarities. Some people like to play those cards, and some don’t. These cards will be discussed here, but will be noted for those that want to avoid them.
The ‘Average Cube environment’ Evaluation
If your cube is 90% artifacts, Shattering Spree is a bomb. If your cube has zero artifacts, it’s a dead card.
For the purpose of these card evaluations, it’s assumed there is an ‘average’ mix of different cards types. All colours are equally (or close to) represented. Artifacts are in the cube but are not a focus, as are enchantments. There are creatures in every colour and spread over the mana curve, and so are other spell types.
As stated earlier, every cube is different and every card may be worse or better based on your specific environment. When possible, it will be noted in the card description which environments might change the valuation of a card. E.g. Reassembling Skeleton gets better the more sacrifice for benefit effects you have.
Card Listing & Scoring Methodology
Card Name - Score Description - Can include what is strictly better than it, why it's good, if it hoses certain archetypes, if it gets better or worse in particular environments etc. Anchors : Archetypes that this card signals are probably in the cube. Pulls you into that archetype. Supports : Might not pull you into an archetype, but if you are already in this archetype, the value of this card goes up.
5 - Bomb. This card is top of the range and is playable in almost every deck of the cards colours, or may warrant a splash. These are likely to be contenders for first picks, and later in the draft you will probably pick these over something that supports the archetype you are pushing. 4 - Staple. This card is good and is likely to be played in most decks of its colours. 3 - Playables. These cards might not always be the most exciting, but they get the job done. 2 - Borderline. These cards might make the cut in some cubes, but probably won't make the majority. This category might include strictly worse cards to consider if you want redundant effects. 1 - Fringe. These cards are almost unplayable in most decks, but may serve to support specific archetypes. Cards that push a parasitic mechanic or theme may fit this category. 0 - Unplayable. There aren't really any decks that would want this card, let alone your cube.
Protection is certainly not a reason to exclude them or not give an accurate evaluation. It's a strong ability, but the disparity between when it's "on" and when it's "off" leads some people to avoid using them. Anybody considering using any card on this list in their cube will have to make a card by card evaluation for them self, so leave it up to the reader.
I would be interested to see how cards like Gary fit into this evaluation system, he is relatively uninteractive, he actively discourages multicoloured decks, he only supports a few archetypes and he is definitely not a card you would splash black for on his own, yet he is an absolute staple of the format.
Grey Merchant of Asphodel Gary is the kind of guy you can depend on to turn a game around. His ETB trigger is strong (especially if you've curved into him) and his fat butt is exactly the right size for solid defensive play. If you can build areusableflickerengine, he'll easily win you the game. That said, the reason he's not sitting at 5 stars is because you really do have to build your deck around him to unlock his full value, and he's certainly not a good splash option. Archetypes: Black Control, Flicker.
I immediately hate anybody who uses the term Gary to refer to grey merchant of asphodel, as well as their families and other loved ones. All enemies of the state.
I immediately hate anybody who uses the term Gary to refer to grey merchant of asphodel, as well as their families and other loved ones. All enemies of the state.
Also he's perfectly fine in black midrange.
I would respond to your comment with a "Well, you know, that's just like, your opinion, man" or "Well, that escalated quickly" meme, but i fear that you would hate me more
I immediately hate anybody who uses the term Gary to refer to grey merchant of asphodel, as well as their families and other loved ones. All enemies of the state.
Also he's perfectly fine in black midrange.
It's always interesting to see who uses "grey" and who uses "gray".
I certainly didn't imply that he's bad in black midrange though. I just said you have to put more work into it to turn him into an actual game ending threat than you do with something like a legit 5star card like Shriekmaw who does everything for nothing.
I would be interested to see how cards like Gary fit into this evaluation system, he is relatively uninteractive, he actively discourages multicoloured decks, he only supports a few archetypes and he is definitely not a card you would splash black for on his own, yet he is an absolute staple of the format.
I think he asks for a different kind of interaction. There's a game in my mind where he was played, then Clone'd by UB Control, then reanimated and then Clone was bounced and replayed for lethal.
I'm interested in seeing this project through and wish you guys the best of luck. I've been thinking hard about how to make archetypes work in a 540 cube without the mechanics becoming too parasitic. I'll probably read along and chip in whenever there's something I don't quite agree with.
Let's get this show on the road, staring with Black 1cc creatures. A-M is 17 creatures, after sifting through chaff. We'll see how we go with this first lot, and can change the number at a time if it is too many.
A lot of these cards I either haven't played with in a long time, haven't play with at all, or have limited play experience with. I'm looking to learn from you guys, so pick any of my initial ratings or comments apart. Slam some I've given a rating, or champion one of the cards I've listed as chaff. Suggest additional archetypes etc.
Carnophage - 3.5 Description – 2 power for B is where black aggro likes to be. The drawback limits this guy to decks that want to turn guys sideways; if you are losing life you definitely want to be dishing it out. Key piece for aggro decks. Anchors: Aggro Support:
Carrion Feeder - 3 Description – Makes your opponents removal worse
Builds into a sizable threat until he finally gets answered (or he gets answered early and is card neutral and often mana positive)
Enables sacrifice/graveyard strategies for no additional mana, and keeps a permanent buff (compared to cards like Nantuko Husk)
Makes attacking/blocking a little more complicated (and fun) Anchors: Support:
Deathgreeter - 2 Description - This guy can give you a bit of value over time. If you have a sac deck, this guy can buy you time to get your engine running, or help stall against aggro in a control decks. He’s not too exciting in an aggro deck, but if you missed out on other 1-drops he might offset some of blacks life-loss suicide cards. Anchors: Support: Sacrifice
Diregraf Ghoul – 4 Description : 2/2 for B is awesome value. Coming into play tapped means you miss a turn of blocking, but most of the time you didn’t want to block anyway, you wanted to smash face. While he suits aggro perfectly, he might find homes in other decks due to the lack of a long-term drawback. Anchors: Aggro Support:
Disciple of the Vault - 1 Description – Only has value if you have support a very large amount of artifacts. Anchors: Support: Affinity
Disowned Ancestor - 1.5 Description - Can be a roleplayer in setting up early defense. As a baseline not too exciting but can stall some aggro or midrange decks. You can always beef him up if you've got nothing else to do and can take a turn off blocking. Anchors: Support: Control, +1/+1 counters
Duty-bound Dead - 1 Description: It's hard to imagine what deck wants this, but could find a spot in decks that want to pump a single guy into the red zone. Anchors: Support:
Facevaulter - 1 Description : This guy only has a place in tribal. Anchors:
Support: Goblin Tribal
Festering Goblin - 2 Description – Fume Spitter is going to be the better 1-drop for a similar effect most of the time, but it may be worth noting that Festering Goblin can actually trade with x/2’s. ok if you want some redundancy. Anchors: Support:
Festering Newt - 2 Description – On power level this is the same as Festering Goblin given we don’t have Bogbrew Witch. To avoid confusion about your card pool you are probably better to play Festering Goblin, unless you are looking for maximum redundancy. Unless you also include Bubbling Cauldron, which raises this guys value. Anchors: Support:
Fume Spitter - 3 Description – It doesn’t have much board presence, but at least it can threaten to mess with combat math, or take out utility creatures. Anchors: Support:
Ghost-Lit Stalker - 1 Description : Repeat discard is nice, but for the cost you may as well play something like Fugue (which is not to say you should). Anchors: Support: Control
Gnarled Scarhide - 4 Description : Gnarled Scarhide has some great flexibility. Of the top, he is a 2/1 for B, making him solid for aggro. You probably didn’t want to block anyway. But he’s more than that; once you hit 4, you can slap that 2 points of power on something else and swing with it immediately, and still get back the Scarhide if the creature dies. For some added flexibility, you can put it on an opponents troubling blocker to force through some final points of damage. This makes him a solid staple. It's hardly the reason you would play him, but also supports any 'enchantment matters' themes that might pop up. Anchors: Support: Aggro, Enchantment Matters
Guul Draz Vampire - 1.5 Description : 3/2 and intimidate for B? Sign me up! Except… you need to get your opponent down to 10 first. And before you get your opponent down to 10, you don’t want this card. It’s an interesting tension, but if you want this in an aggro deck you already need a critical mass of similar aggro cards, which makes this a slim inclusion. Anchors: Support: Aggro
Mardu Shadowspear - 1.5 Description : On a clear board and viewed through the right lens, this has the same effect as a 2/1 for B. But the board is not always going to be clear, and sneaking some life loss past blockers doesn't make up for not being able to take out x/2's. The dash doesn’t really add much to the package. Anchors: Support:
Accursed Centaur – Downside too big. Not being able to cast this turn 1 loses all appeal. Acolyte of Xathrid – Can’t kill anything, can’t survive a block, and prohibitive activation cost. Asphodel Wanderer – The decks that would want a regen blocker have much better tools available, and he does nothing on offense. Bile Urchin – Doesn’t do enough and is strictly worse than Death Cultist. Blood Celebrant – Meh. Blood Pet – If you want to trade cards for speed, play Dark Ritual. Bog Rats – Even when it is on, ability has little impact on the game. Tormented Soul can play the same role. Cabal Trainee - Just doesn't do enough to affect the board. Carrion Beetles – If you want this ability, you want it on something that does something other than be a 1/1. Carrion Rats - A 2/1 for 1 wants to be in an aggro deck. Your opponent is either going to play some spells, or lose some creatures to your assault and turn this guys damage off a few times, giving them more time to stabilise. No thanks. Circling Vultures - 3/2 flyer for B is awesome. But that drawback requires too long to keep it on the board for more than a few turns. Dark Supplicant – Does nothing for peasant cube. Death Cultist – Doesn’t do much to affect the board, and the one-shot effect doesn’t give any major swings. Demon’s Herald – Does nothing for peasant cube. Drainpipe Vermin - You want them to discard when it comes into play, not keep mana one in case it dies. Dreadwing – Forcing 3 colours makes this pretty weak. Duskwalker – Neither mode is good and the flexibility doesn’t make up for it. Gnat Miser – Just bad. Hunted Ghoul – No decks want this guy. Insidious Bookworms – Too much and have to keep mana open for the death trigger. Initiates of the Ebon Hand - This guy could help you hit any heavy black commitments, but most of the time it isn't going to do much. Kjeldoran Dead – Downside is too big to make up for the cheap mana cost. Maggot Carrier – Just bad. Martyr of Bones – Too narrow. Merrow Bonegnawer - Weak body, and opponent gets the choice of card to exile. Mindlash Sliver – Even if you are playing sliver tribal, this is not an effect you want. Molting Harpy – Ongoing upkeep makes this terrible. Muck Rats – Vanilla badness.
I cant help but think that cabal trainee should be a 0.5/ on the unplayable list. If his ability read -0/-2 instead of -2/-0, he would be worthy of consideration.
Also your list definitely needs to include Vampire Lacerator, he is as important to B and B/x aggro as Carnophage, Diregraf Ghoul and Gnarled Scarhide.
Deathgreeter is a card I haven't thought about before. Does anybody have any experience playing it? Cabal Trainee is unplayable for me. Duty-Bound Dead is a 1. Carrion Feeder might be around a 3. I don't have a copy of one, but I've been meaning to add it and try it out.
Cabal Trainee - uncubeable Carrion Feeder - 3. I made a post about it the other day here. I'd rate it a 3. Carnophage - 3.5. A key piece of the black aggro package Death Greeter - 2. Lifegain is pretty dull. It also works in lifegain.dec (Ajani's Pridemate, etc. I've seen people push it :P) Disciple of the Vault - 1 but i'd rate it a 3.5 in a cube that really supports it. Disowned ancestor - 2. If you play it on turn 1 and you want it to be able to eat x/1's, you have to wait until turn 3 (and skip your turn2 play). It's a marginally better Steel Wall but only in black. Duty-Bound Dead - 1.5, I'm not sure what kind of environment wants this (and black is so tight as well) Festering Newt - I'd rate it at 2.5 IF you're cubeing with the Bubbling Cauldron Gnarled Scarhide - supports enchantments matter if that could ever be a thing. Anchor card for black aggro (as all the 2/x for B are) Guul Draz Vampire - 1.5 (you miss-spelt the name). It's a card that doesn't do what the deck that wants it wants to do. Initiates of the Ebon Hand - uncubeable Mardu Shadowspear - 1.5 Merrow Bonegnawer - 0.5. Is there ever going to be a deck that combos with this?
Quick drop in, won't have time for full response for another day at this rate. Good stuff. Give it a few days for responses and then I'll update the original post.
@stonecrowe
As kingavarice mentioned, only up to m right now. My initial impression was that Cabal Trainee was bad, but thought maybe it had some (limited) place to mess with combat math. -0/-2 would probably give it staple status at this mana cost.
@kingavarice
I couldn't quite figure out duty-bound dead. It could serve to block 1/xs and then block larger creatures with the (expensive) regen, but as n00b has said, what deck actually wants it? I don't see what deck is taking advantage of exalted, at least with this guy.
@n00b
Updated Carrion Feeder based on linked post. Am I overselling Disowned Ancestor? You don't wan to dump all your mana into it for it to them eat removal, but if the board is stable I can see a control deck amping this guy up over a few turns.
Hadn't seen Bubbling Cauldron before. Obviously we aren't ranking it yet, but I'm curious as to its playability. Repeat 4 life gain seems decent, but is it worth the investment?
For my score on Merrow Bonegnawer, it was based on it being a relatively low investment for clearing graveyards, not based on the combo potential. Just noted that in case anyone wanted to get extra cute. Still, can see dropping the score as even if it is an effect you want in your cube, it either gets the job done or is an otherwise unplayable 1/1.
@n00b
Updated Carrion Feeder based on linked post. Am I overselling Disowned Ancestor? You don't wan to dump all your mana into it for it to them eat removal, but if the board is stable I can see a control deck amping this guy up over a few turns.
Hadn't seen Bubbling Cauldron before. Obviously we aren't ranking it yet, but I'm curious as to its playability. Repeat 4 life gain seems decent, but is it worth the investment?
For my score on Merrow Bonegnawer, it was based on it being a relatively low investment for clearing graveyards, not based on the combo potential. Just noted that in case anyone wanted to get extra cute. Still, can see dropping the score as even if it is an effect you want in your cube, it either gets the job done or is an otherwise unplayable 1/1.
Could be that I'm underrating Ancestor, I've never played KTK draft so I don't really know how good it is.
Cauldron is cute for a few reasons, it helps sac.dec, it has fun synergy with Entreat the Angels, and it helps life.dec.
The Merrow is the definition of sideboard material 9and not very exciting sideboard material either). Since it would hose the deck it's designed to hate on so hard (and grave.dec is a fragile creature already), I wouldn't ever want to run it.
It wasn't the same score as Carnophage (3 for Carnophage, originally 2 for Merrow).
I'd imagine that the vast majority won't want to run that type of card, but some might want that effect in their environment. Without having done a comparison, I'd assume Merrow Bonegnawer is better than most by virtue of it being a filler creature. I'll drop the score to 1.
If bonegnawer is a 2,then 2 means "extremely niche that might find a home in extreme circumstances", which is what I'd have called a 1. 0 would be unplayable in my book (and gives us more leeway)
and yes it was the ancestor
You're overselling it if you mark it as highly as carnophage.
Just a point that is worth clarification moving forward. Does the 3 for Ancestor mean that it's a 3 in the build that wants it or a 3 in a vacuum? You could maybe justify it being equal to Carnophage if it's the former, but I would probably bump it down to 2 if it's the latter.
I like to see Merrow Bonegnawer on the list, since I think the point of the project is to see some cards that we don't really discuss that much. A grade of 1 seems right.
Draft it on Cubetutor here, and CubeCobra here.
Treasure Cruise did nothing wrong.
I can elaborate on some of the names if required, and some might be fringe archetypes that you would never play in a million years, but they are at least possible with the card pool.
Thoughts on how to categorise these appreciated; try and think about it from a card evaluation perspective. If you had to list a card as being an anchor or support for an archetype or set of archetypes, what would you put?
White
White Weenie
Blue
Draw Go
Green
Ramp
Red
Aggro Weenie
Control/Pingers
Black
Suicide Aggro
Sacrifice Recursion
Golgari
Graveyard Matters (general)
Creature Recursion
Dredge
Reanimator
Sacrifice
Aggro/Midrange
Rakdos
Aggro
Burn/Rack
Sweeper Control
Reanimator
Dimir
Control/disruption (counters and discard)
Prison
Ninjas
Rogues
Skies
Transmute/Toolbox
Control Locks (Evincar's Justice)
Control Mill (incidental mill)
Aggro Mill (mill focused)
Azorius
Skies
Blink/Bounce
Auras/Hexproof
Artifact Matters
Prison
Simic
Flash Go
Shard
Ramp
Pants
Gruul
Monster Ramp
Defenders
Fires
Spells Matter
Midrange Combat Tricks
Boros
Aggro
Diversion (can't block)
Token Burn
Pyrohemia/sweeper control
Cycling (Astral Slide/Lightning Rift)
Doubelstrikers (equipment and power pumps)
Selesnya
Voltron
Tokens
Enchantress
Pillowfort
+1/+1 counters
Reanimator
Izzet
Spells Matter
Control (sweepers + counters)
Counterburn
Aggro Disruption
Storm Combo
Orzhov
Extortion
Token Sacrifice
Aggro
Blink Control
Pestilence/Crypt Rats
Forced Attack (creature must attack, with punishing cards)
Enchantment Drain (draining auras with enchantment recursion)
Option 1
I list a bunch of cards and then generate discussion, possibly giving my rankings for all of the cards as a starting point (though I suspect mine will be off from time to time, but that should generate discussion anyway).
Option 2
For anyone wanting to be a primary participant, divide the list into chunks and PM each of those people their chunk of the list. They can come back when ready and post their completed list for others to comment on.
Regardless of method, I'd encourage anyone to participate, even if it is just dropping in from time to time. I'm thinking starting with 1 CC cards and moving up. When exploring each casting cost, start with a colour, and divide that into creatures and spells. Then move onto the next colour. Once all 1CC cards are done, move up to 2 CC and start the cycle again. Size of card list can be changed based on response; don't want to make it too small so it takes forever, but don't want to make it too large so cards don't get discussed in enough detail.
Draft it on Cubetutor here, and CubeCobra here.
Treasure Cruise did nothing wrong.
Probably the main one I wanted to confirm with collaborators is the stance on interactivity. If you throw protection on anything it is more powerful in a general sense, so assume it should be be valued as such. Or particularly in the case of protection and landwalk do we just ignore it when evaluating power level and people can make up their own minds about whether they include this stuff? My assumption based on conversations here is that most don't include them in their cube, but I feel it might not be fair to just rate those cards as bad or exclude them.
Assume particularly egregious cards (Invisible Stalker) can have their lack of interactivity mentioned in their description.
Thoughts?
It goes without saying that every cube is different. Each cube owner has their own views on a number of factors that influence their cube environment. As such, the following baseline or general guides are used for these evaluations.
General Power over Colour Pie / Flavour
Some people shape their cube based on their perspective of the colour pie, and include/exclude certain functions and flavour for each colour. Maybe you don’t want green to have flyers. Maybe you will never play Ray of Command because you think only red should have temporary creature stealing. Maybe you really want to push green counterspells. None of these considerations are taken into account for the purpose of these evaluations. Only the general power level of the card.
Interactivity
This is an extension of the above. There are some cards that do not lend themselves to interactivity with the opponent. Protection, landwalk, shadow, unblockability and hexproof are some examples. For some, these are powerful and will be valued as such. For others they can be random hosers which your opponent may feel unfair for choosing the wrong colour while drafting, or don’t promote the type of gameplay they desire. If that’s you, then ignore those cards.
Rarities
Some cards have only been released online as uncommons, but don’t have a printed version. Some older cards have some questionable rarities. Some people like to play those cards, and some don’t. These cards will be discussed here, but will be noted for those that want to avoid them.
The ‘Average Cube environment’ Evaluation
If your cube is 90% artifacts, Shattering Spree is a bomb. If your cube has zero artifacts, it’s a dead card.
For the purpose of these card evaluations, it’s assumed there is an ‘average’ mix of different cards types. All colours are equally (or close to) represented. Artifacts are in the cube but are not a focus, as are enchantments. There are creatures in every colour and spread over the mana curve, and so are other spell types.
As stated earlier, every cube is different and every card may be worse or better based on your specific environment. When possible, it will be noted in the card description which environments might change the valuation of a card. E.g. Reassembling Skeleton gets better the more sacrifice for benefit effects you have.
Card Listing & Scoring Methodology
Card Name - Score
Description - Can include what is strictly better than it, why it's good, if it hoses certain archetypes, if it gets better or worse in particular environments etc.
Anchors : Archetypes that this card signals are probably in the cube. Pulls you into that archetype.
Supports : Might not pull you into an archetype, but if you are already in this archetype, the value of this card goes up.
5 - Bomb. This card is top of the range and is playable in almost every deck of the cards colours, or may warrant a splash. These are likely to be contenders for first picks, and later in the draft you will probably pick these over something that supports the archetype you are pushing.
4 - Staple. This card is good and is likely to be played in most decks of its colours.
3 - Playables. These cards might not always be the most exciting, but they get the job done.
2 - Borderline. These cards might make the cut in some cubes, but probably won't make the majority. This category might include strictly worse cards to consider if you want redundant effects.
1 - Fringe. These cards are almost unplayable in most decks, but may serve to support specific archetypes. Cards that push a parasitic mechanic or theme may fit this category.
0 - Unplayable. There aren't really any decks that would want this card, let alone your cube.
Cards will be scored on a 0.5 scale.
E: Intro is fine.
Draft it on Cubetutor here, and CubeCobra here.
Treasure Cruise did nothing wrong.
Grey Merchant of Asphodel
Gary is the kind of guy you can depend on to turn a game around. His ETB trigger is strong (especially if you've curved into him) and his fat butt is exactly the right size for solid defensive play. If you can build a reusable flicker engine, he'll easily win you the game. That said, the reason he's not sitting at 5 stars is because you really do have to build your deck around him to unlock his full value, and he's certainly not a good splash option.
Archetypes: Black Control, Flicker.
Draft it on Cubetutor here, and CubeCobra here.
Treasure Cruise did nothing wrong.
Also he's perfectly fine in black midrange.
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
I would respond to your comment with a "Well, you know, that's just like, your opinion, man" or "Well, that escalated quickly" meme, but i fear that you would hate me more
.... Couldn't help myself.
It's always interesting to see who uses "grey" and who uses "gray".
I certainly didn't imply that he's bad in black midrange though. I just said you have to put more work into it to turn him into an actual game ending threat than you do with something like a legit 5star card like Shriekmaw who does everything for nothing.
Draft it on Cubetutor here, and CubeCobra here.
Treasure Cruise did nothing wrong.
I think he asks for a different kind of interaction. There's a game in my mind where he was played, then Clone'd by UB Control, then reanimated and then Clone was bounced and replayed for lethal.
I'm interested in seeing this project through and wish you guys the best of luck. I've been thinking hard about how to make archetypes work in a 540 cube without the mechanics becoming too parasitic. I'll probably read along and chip in whenever there's something I don't quite agree with.
Judge Tower: http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/80859
A lot of these cards I either haven't played with in a long time, haven't play with at all, or have limited play experience with. I'm looking to learn from you guys, so pick any of my initial ratings or comments apart. Slam some I've given a rating, or champion one of the cards I've listed as chaff. Suggest additional archetypes etc.
Carnophage - 3.5
Description – 2 power for B is where black aggro likes to be. The drawback limits this guy to decks that want to turn guys sideways; if you are losing life you definitely want to be dishing it out. Key piece for aggro decks.
Anchors: Aggro
Support:
Carrion Feeder - 3
Description – Makes your opponents removal worse
Builds into a sizable threat until he finally gets answered (or he gets answered early and is card neutral and often mana positive)
Enables sacrifice/graveyard strategies for no additional mana, and keeps a permanent buff (compared to cards like Nantuko Husk)
Makes attacking/blocking a little more complicated (and fun)
Anchors:
Support:
Deathgreeter - 2
Description - This guy can give you a bit of value over time. If you have a sac deck, this guy can buy you time to get your engine running, or help stall against aggro in a control decks. He’s not too exciting in an aggro deck, but if you missed out on other 1-drops he might offset some of blacks life-loss suicide cards.
Anchors:
Support: Sacrifice
Diregraf Ghoul – 4
Description : 2/2 for B is awesome value. Coming into play tapped means you miss a turn of blocking, but most of the time you didn’t want to block anyway, you wanted to smash face. While he suits aggro perfectly, he might find homes in other decks due to the lack of a long-term drawback.
Anchors: Aggro
Support:
Disciple of the Vault - 1
Description – Only has value if you have support a very large amount of artifacts.
Anchors:
Support: Affinity
Disowned Ancestor - 1.5
Description - Can be a roleplayer in setting up early defense. As a baseline not too exciting but can stall some aggro or midrange decks. You can always beef him up if you've got nothing else to do and can take a turn off blocking.
Anchors:
Support: Control, +1/+1 counters
Duty-bound Dead - 1
Description: It's hard to imagine what deck wants this, but could find a spot in decks that want to pump a single guy into the red zone.
Anchors:
Support:
Facevaulter - 1
Description : This guy only has a place in tribal.
Anchors:
Support: Goblin Tribal
Festering Goblin - 2
Description – Fume Spitter is going to be the better 1-drop for a similar effect most of the time, but it may be worth noting that Festering Goblin can actually trade with x/2’s. ok if you want some redundancy.
Anchors:
Support:
Festering Newt - 2
Description – On power level this is the same as Festering Goblin given we don’t have Bogbrew Witch. To avoid confusion about your card pool you are probably better to play Festering Goblin, unless you are looking for maximum redundancy. Unless you also include Bubbling Cauldron, which raises this guys value.
Anchors:
Support:
Fume Spitter - 3
Description – It doesn’t have much board presence, but at least it can threaten to mess with combat math, or take out utility creatures.
Anchors:
Support:
Ghost-Lit Stalker - 1
Description : Repeat discard is nice, but for the cost you may as well play something like Fugue (which is not to say you should).
Anchors:
Support: Control
Gnarled Scarhide - 4
Description : Gnarled Scarhide has some great flexibility. Of the top, he is a 2/1 for B, making him solid for aggro. You probably didn’t want to block anyway. But he’s more than that; once you hit 4, you can slap that 2 points of power on something else and swing with it immediately, and still get back the Scarhide if the creature dies. For some added flexibility, you can put it on an opponents troubling blocker to force through some final points of damage. This makes him a solid staple. It's hardly the reason you would play him, but also supports any 'enchantment matters' themes that might pop up.
Anchors:
Support: Aggro, Enchantment Matters
Guul Draz Vampire - 1.5
Description : 3/2 and intimidate for B? Sign me up! Except… you need to get your opponent down to 10 first. And before you get your opponent down to 10, you don’t want this card. It’s an interesting tension, but if you want this in an aggro deck you already need a critical mass of similar aggro cards, which makes this a slim inclusion.
Anchors:
Support: Aggro
Mardu Shadowspear - 1.5
Description : On a clear board and viewed through the right lens, this has the same effect as a 2/1 for B. But the board is not always going to be clear, and sneaking some life loss past blockers doesn't make up for not being able to take out x/2's. The dash doesn’t really add much to the package.
Anchors:
Support:
Acolyte of Xathrid – Can’t kill anything, can’t survive a block, and prohibitive activation cost.
Asphodel Wanderer – The decks that would want a regen blocker have much better tools available, and he does nothing on offense.
Bile Urchin – Doesn’t do enough and is strictly worse than Death Cultist.
Blood Celebrant – Meh.
Blood Pet – If you want to trade cards for speed, play Dark Ritual.
Bog Rats – Even when it is on, ability has little impact on the game. Tormented Soul can play the same role.
Cabal Trainee - Just doesn't do enough to affect the board.
Carrion Beetles – If you want this ability, you want it on something that does something other than be a 1/1.
Carrion Rats - A 2/1 for 1 wants to be in an aggro deck. Your opponent is either going to play some spells, or lose some creatures to your assault and turn this guys damage off a few times, giving them more time to stabilise. No thanks.
Circling Vultures - 3/2 flyer for B is awesome. But that drawback requires too long to keep it on the board for more than a few turns.
Dark Supplicant – Does nothing for peasant cube.
Death Cultist – Doesn’t do much to affect the board, and the one-shot effect doesn’t give any major swings.
Demon’s Herald – Does nothing for peasant cube.
Drainpipe Vermin - You want them to discard when it comes into play, not keep mana one in case it dies.
Dreadwing – Forcing 3 colours makes this pretty weak.
Duskwalker – Neither mode is good and the flexibility doesn’t make up for it.
Gnat Miser – Just bad.
Hunted Ghoul – No decks want this guy.
Insidious Bookworms – Too much and have to keep mana open for the death trigger.
Initiates of the Ebon Hand - This guy could help you hit any heavy black commitments, but most of the time it isn't going to do much.
Kjeldoran Dead – Downside is too big to make up for the cheap mana cost.
Maggot Carrier – Just bad.
Martyr of Bones – Too narrow.
Merrow Bonegnawer - Weak body, and opponent gets the choice of card to exile.
Mindlash Sliver – Even if you are playing sliver tribal, this is not an effect you want.
Molting Harpy – Ongoing upkeep makes this terrible.
Muck Rats – Vanilla badness.
Also your list definitely needs to include Vampire Lacerator, he is as important to B and B/x aggro as Carnophage, Diregraf Ghoul and Gnarled Scarhide.
Deathgreeter is a card I haven't thought about before. Does anybody have any experience playing it? Cabal Trainee is unplayable for me. Duty-Bound Dead is a 1. Carrion Feeder might be around a 3. I don't have a copy of one, but I've been meaning to add it and try it out.
Judge Tower: http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/80859
Carrion Feeder - 3. I made a post about it the other day here. I'd rate it a 3.
Carnophage - 3.5. A key piece of the black aggro package
Death Greeter - 2. Lifegain is pretty dull. It also works in lifegain.dec (Ajani's Pridemate, etc. I've seen people push it :P)
Disciple of the Vault - 1 but i'd rate it a 3.5 in a cube that really supports it.
Disowned ancestor - 2. If you play it on turn 1 and you want it to be able to eat x/1's, you have to wait until turn 3 (and skip your turn2 play). It's a marginally better Steel Wall but only in black.
Duty-Bound Dead - 1.5, I'm not sure what kind of environment wants this (and black is so tight as well)
Festering Newt - I'd rate it at 2.5 IF you're cubeing with the Bubbling Cauldron
Gnarled Scarhide - supports enchantments matter if that could ever be a thing. Anchor card for black aggro (as all the 2/x for B are)
Guul Draz Vampire - 1.5 (you miss-spelt the name). It's a card that doesn't do what the deck that wants it wants to do.
Initiates of the Ebon Hand - uncubeable
Mardu Shadowspear - 1.5
Merrow Bonegnawer - 0.5. Is there ever going to be a deck that combos with this?
Draft it on Cubetutor here, and CubeCobra here.
Treasure Cruise did nothing wrong.
As kingavarice mentioned, only up to m right now. My initial impression was that Cabal Trainee was bad, but thought maybe it had some (limited) place to mess with combat math. -0/-2 would probably give it staple status at this mana cost.
@kingavarice
I couldn't quite figure out duty-bound dead. It could serve to block 1/xs and then block larger creatures with the (expensive) regen, but as n00b has said, what deck actually wants it? I don't see what deck is taking advantage of exalted, at least with this guy.
@n00b
Updated Carrion Feeder based on linked post. Am I overselling Disowned Ancestor? You don't wan to dump all your mana into it for it to them eat removal, but if the board is stable I can see a control deck amping this guy up over a few turns.
Hadn't seen Bubbling Cauldron before. Obviously we aren't ranking it yet, but I'm curious as to its playability. Repeat 4 life gain seems decent, but is it worth the investment?
For my score on Merrow Bonegnawer, it was based on it being a relatively low investment for clearing graveyards, not based on the combo potential. Just noted that in case anyone wanted to get extra cute. Still, can see dropping the score as even if it is an effect you want in your cube, it either gets the job done or is an otherwise unplayable 1/1.
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
Cauldron is cute for a few reasons, it helps sac.dec, it has fun synergy with Entreat the Angels, and it helps life.dec.
The Merrow is the definition of sideboard material 9and not very exciting sideboard material either). Since it would hose the deck it's designed to hate on so hard (and grave.dec is a fragile creature already), I wouldn't ever want to run it.
Draft it on Cubetutor here, and CubeCobra here.
Treasure Cruise did nothing wrong.
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
I'd imagine that the vast majority won't want to run that type of card, but some might want that effect in their environment. Without having done a comparison, I'd assume Merrow Bonegnawer is better than most by virtue of it being a filler creature. I'll drop the score to 1.
and yes it was the ancestor
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
Just a point that is worth clarification moving forward. Does the 3 for Ancestor mean that it's a 3 in the build that wants it or a 3 in a vacuum? You could maybe justify it being equal to Carnophage if it's the former, but I would probably bump it down to 2 if it's the latter.
I like to see Merrow Bonegnawer on the list, since I think the point of the project is to see some cards that we don't really discuss that much. A grade of 1 seems right.
Judge Tower: http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/80859