Gave your cube a whirl, and I have to say it felt very smooth: at 410, I wasn't flooded with lands over playables, and the ease of fixing meant I could more happily splash 1 - 2 ofs in an aggro deck (fx. including Overgrown Tomb for Lingering souls off of a Windswept Heath).
At the beginning of this year I added a full set of original duals, shockduals and fetch to my peasant cube and I though of sharing my experience after almost 8 months playing with them. I do have to note that most of my experiences come from 2 player grid draft and some sealed. The number of drafts with more than four players during this time was less than 5 as I recently became a dad. With the pregnancy and recent birth I haven't had much time to play these last few months. With that out of the way here some notes:
- The number of 4 or 5cc decks increased quite a lot during the first few weeks but came down again after aggro players started to realize they should pick their fix higher as it's actually playable now in their decks.
- The number of non-aggro decks that splashed a third color didn't increased. Turns out having a full set of tricolor lands and gain 1 life duals and 5 vivids is better for splashing in these decks.
- The number of aggro decks that splashed a third color did increased a bit.
- Having 10 fetch didn't significantly increase the power level of some cards. Most decks end up with 1 or 2 fetch so unless you drafted them very aggressively cards like Brainstorm and Sensei's Divining Top were still just okish so I cut them again.
- The only exception to the previous statement were aggro landfall creatures (mainly Steppe Lynx and Plated Geopede). Before I rated Lynx below almost every 2 power 1 drop and Geopede below almost every other 3 power 2 drop. Now there are somewhat average and worth playing.
- Having 10 duals and 10 shockduals also didn't significantly increase the power level of some cards with the obvious exception of Farseek. Kird Ape is somewhat better but not much and Wild Nacatl became a little better since aggro decks with a third color were a bit more common.
I know this thread is very old, but I think the topic is not. Does anybody have new experience with rare lands in Peasant Cube.
I just hate the land situation in peasant cube, since not only most lands come into play tapped, but also picking lands doesnt feel rewarding or interesting at all, which is something I really miss in our environment.
Basically I am thinking about two solutions...
I.) Adding Fetchlands and Shocklands. While this feels very much like powered or unpowered cube, mana fixing is covered with this solution. Plus, this adds subtle complexity as Fetchlands shuffle the deck and thereby support iconic magic cards (Brainstorm , Top), they go to the graveyard for Worm Harvest and Delve shenanigans, they double trigger landfall, etc..
II) Adding duals that feel more peasant such as the Glacial Fortress or Adarkar Wastes. They will get the job done, but they dont offer any synergy compared to the fetchlands.
@ArBoR4817: Do you still cube with the fetchlands or were you able to generate more experience with them in a cube environment?
I've added rare lands to my cube and I'm very happy with it. I was just always so frustrated with the mana fixing coming into play tapped and being so bad in aggressive decks. In the end I want decks to be able to play their cards on curve and rare fixing has allowed for that to be the case.
I'm mostly just avoiding the duals+fetches combo and anything that feels like it has to be rare, like man lands. Duals+Fetches I think is just too powerful for peasant, and would lead to people pretty much always first picking a dual or fetch.
I've added rare lands to my cube and I'm very happy with it. I was just always so frustrated with the mana fixing coming into play tapped and being so bad in aggressive decks. In the end I want decks to be able to play their cards on curve and rare fixing has allowed for that to be the case.
I'm mostly just avoiding the duals+fetches combo and anything that feels like it has to be rare, like man lands. Duals+Fetches I think is just too powerful for peasant, and would lead to people pretty much always first picking a dual or fetch.
Agreed on pretty much all fronts. I recently made the switch to include a subset of rare lands as well, and it's been a very positive change. Pain lands, Check lands, Bicycle lands, and even Shock lands (not nearly as high of a power-level when they can't be fetched) all feel fine at Peasant. They don't really change the raw power level of the cube, they simply add consistency and result in more games where both players can actually cast their spells on curve (ya know, good games of Magic). Plus they end up being decently high picks, especially compared to trilands/vivids, which makes the decision making during a draft much more interesting.
It's been said in the past, but WotC has basically admitted that their hesitance to print lands at lower rarities has nothing to do with power level and everything to do with selling packs. That helps remove any philosophical qualms I might have about breaking rarity.
Personally, fetchlands are where it feels like we start creeping into powered/unpowered territory, specifically because now your lands are adding this additional utility (shuffling, graveyard filling, landfall, etc). Plus who actually likes all that extra shuffling? I'm happy to (mostly) escape it at Peasant.
Interestingly, like how the shocklands aren't really that powerful without fetchlands, the oposite also holds true. Fetchlands with no fetchable duals are fairly weak; they only "tap for a single colour". It is the combination of the two that takes things way above the top, a few duals and suddenly your fetchlands can get 3-4 colours. So if you wished to push landfall or up the amount of shuffle-effects, I don't think going with just fetches would give "too good" mana.
I've never moved in, but my thought would be if I'd go with rare lands to go with temples plus painlands.
I am happy with it. I did notice that once i replaced the tri-color lands with duals that fixing took a hit since you can play a specific dual in less decks than a specific tri-land. I am thinking of adding a third cycle of lands (probably pain) because of this but the eternal question of what to cut...
Yeah personally, I think having 3-4 land cycles at 360-400 card range is a good idea, it just gives people a much better chance of getting the fixing they need, and people never really have problems getting playables in cube anyway.
I've been testing Fetches with no duals/shocks, and they have been about what I had expect. Kinda nice for random things like Delve, Escape and Shuffling, but in all honesty, worse than any of the other rare cycles I've tried (painlands, checklands, fastlands). This is because they can only get one of the colors, which can make it a lot worse in a 3 or 4 color deck.
I think I will trade out the fetches for shock lands, as they just provide better fixing, and don't require people to have to shuffle.
While I understand why folks want to include rare duals in their peasant cubes, it's not something I personally prefer anymore. I ran pain lands for a bit, but ultimately went back to a pure peasant stance. Tap lands are a drag, but I think it's what you get with peasant. I'd love for WotC to print the pain lands (or similar) at uncommon, but rare lands sell packs, so I doubt we'll ever get that. The BX Tainted lands from Torment are probably the closest things we'll get to untapped duals and they can be frustrating in their own way.
I think if you're not enjoying the peasant format with its bad fixing, you should probably just be looking to build a lower power level legacy cube. If you're willing to break the peasant restriction for fixing, why not also break it to allow for decent rares? Peasant would love a white board sweeper, for example. Why not include one of the lower power level ones like Winds of Wrath or similar?
I think if you're not enjoying the peasant format with its bad fixing, you should probably just be looking to build a lower power level legacy cube. If you're willing to break the peasant restriction for fixing, why not also break it to allow for decent rares? Peasant would love a white board sweeper, for example. Why not include one of the lower power level ones like Winds of Wrath or similar?
Because peasant cube just doesn't really function without rare dual lands, IMO. Playing aggro decks is so punishing when cards like ember hauler are essentially off limits entirely (because monocolor is mostly non-viable), and even attempting to play ETB tapped duals for fixing sets you back an entire turn. Couple this with the fact that aggro decks are already inherently worse in a format where every deck is playing random grizzly bears regardless of archetype, and there's some of the best removal of all time (path to exile, etc) and you have a format where aggro really can't compete.
My solution is to give them functional mana and cut back on the number of aggro punisher cards where I can (no arc lightning, for instance)
RW in particular, and also RB, can have very good aggro decks. Often, I have been on the receiving end of these and found that my random grizzly bears don't stem the bleeding as planned because of stuff like Ahn-Crop Crasher, Territorial Hammerskull, Madcap Skills, or even just a Kongming, "Sleeping Dragon" coming down and making my blocks bad.
And while tapped fixing is suboptimal, particularly for aggro, most decks and games don't play out exactly on curve, so going two-drop into two-drop+tapland into four-drop is a good line too.
I know people on here have also had good results with pushing blue aggro.
I think if you're not enjoying the peasant format with its bad fixing, you should probably just be looking to build a lower power level legacy cube. If you're willing to break the peasant restriction for fixing, why not also break it to allow for decent rares?
While I get what you are saying, I think breaking the rule for fixing is not the same as breaking the rule for "real cards" (the addition of Fetchlands is debatable as these do more than just fixing). The goal with adding rare lands is to let players play their cards on curve more frequently especially for XX mana costs. I dont add an additional effect as I would with inclusion of a white wrath, I let my players play the C/U effect more reliable. I just want to create an environment that lets you cast your C/U cards on time and that also makes drafting lands rewarding. Lets say I draft Boros aggro, I just do not want to take a Boros dual that etb tapped and this is just a dilemma in cube design we face at the C/U level.
I think we can all agree that some dual land cycles are printed at rare not because of their powerlevel, but because of selling-packs reasons. I really wish, Wizards would make a cube product (like a Commander Set), in which Painlands or Checklands are printes as uncommons.
Yeah fixing doesn't change anything fundamentally about how I feel like peasant games should play it, it just allows players to actually play their spells. A wrath on the other hand would force people to change their play patterns for example. And lands are absolutely printed at rare because of money reasons.
As for aggro, I think it is very viable, you just need to make sure to support it properly. Mono-color is definitely viable as long as you have enough density of 1 and 2 drops in the colors you want to support. However, dual color aggro throws out a lot of the benefits of aggro if you don't have good fixing. The strength of aggro comes from consistency and efficiency, you get to play your 1 and 2 drops out early and start beating down right away. It gets a lot worse if you don't have one of your colors and you miss out on being able to play a one drop on turn one.
I've always found that aggro (or at least low curve midranged) is the best thing to be doing after cutting down on the number of Nekrataal effects I had. If you don't have ample early interaction you just kinda die. Even if you don't die by t5 aggro still has ridiculous options that force removal (or even just outvalue you). Then you need to actually end the game before they find enough reach to kill you.
Do untapped duals even help aggro more than other decks? If an etbt dual causes a deck to miss a play vs aggro they're probably losing at least 1-2 mana, while in aggro you probably don't lose any mana. There's also at most 1 pain land aggro can play, while decks with splashes can play 3. Obviously aggro's mana is bad for 1 drops, but that's why you autopick stuff like Gemstone Mine or City of Brass.
Let me start my reply by reiterating that I ran pain lands in my peasant list for quite a while for all the reasons you folks are saying. ETBT duals are not friendly to aggressive strategies and can, in general, be a bit of a bummer even in non-aggro decks. I get it and I don't think any of your are doing anything wrong by adding in the better fixing lands. It just wasn't for me and I prefer a "pure" peasant restriction. When I break out the "peasant" cube, I want my drafters to know exactly what to expect when I say that. And, for what it's worth, I also have two other cubes that include rares; a low power legacy legal list and a fully powered vintage list. So we have ample opportunity to draft turn four aggro decks in those cubes. We know what we're getting into when we break out the peasant cube for a draft.
Because peasant cube just doesn't really function without rare dual lands, IMO.
This is quite a bold statement and I couldn't disagree more. To me peasant tends to play like a very powerful limited environment where, even if you're on the classic 9/8 split, your deck can still function pretty well. Decks tend to be more often midrange than not, but aggro and control are there and still viable, even with the ETBT fixing.
While I get what you are saying, I think breaking the rule for fixing is not the same as breaking the rule for "real cards" (the addition of Fetchlands is debatable as these do more than just fixing). The goal with adding rare lands is to let players play their cards on curve more frequently especially for XX mana costs.
That makes sense, but my point still stands. Adding in rare fixing is a bit of a slippery slope. You have to be able to draw that line in the sand and tell yourself those are the only rares you're allowing. Personally, adding in the pain lands made me want to experiment with other rares that "felt" uncommon. I could easily see the pain lands being printed at uncommon and being ok for that set as a whole, but like we established, rare lands sell packs, so we won't see that any time soon. They do "feel" uncommon, though, so what else could I add in that felt the same way? I added several rares that I thought had that same feeling of being an easy target for an uncommon reprint. Ultimately, I didn't like where that cube went, so I scrapped the whole thing. I realized that if I wanted that experience, I was better off trying to build a legacy legal list and just tone the power down a bit, so that's what I did. I also rebuilt my peasant cube and gave it a commons/uncommons only restriction. I'm not even running the technical uncommons like City of Brass or Force of Will. The only "exceptions" I make are the MTGO only uncommons.
Ultimately it's each cube builder's choice as to what they want their cube experience to be. If you think you and your crew will have more fun drafting commons and uncommons alongside shock lands and pain lands, then it's absolutely correct for you to do that. There's no wrong way to build a cube. For me, I'd just rather my peasant list be peasant in every aspect. I love limited Magic, which is why I think I love playing my peasant cube so much.
Why is Force of Will a "technical uncommon"? Alliances had real rares, I believe. In 12-card boosters if I remember correctly. But I still think each booster had dedicated rare-slots.
And I think Purple's points are good:
-Aggro suffers more from the good removal (specially 2-for-1) than from a lack of fixing, IMO.
-Aggro can often play ETBT-lands without massive drawbacks (although sometimes they will bite you, of course).
I agree with the point that aggro suffers more from the good removal (specially 2-for-1) than from a lack of fixing. However, the second point I don't agree with.
In two color aggro decks I usually don't put etbt lands in my deck even if they are in my pool. Sure, often it won't be a problem to run etbt lands in aggro but mostly because you draw them late. There are few situations in two color aggro deck in which a etbt dual is really better than a basic land. Especially compared to situations in which the etbt land is worse than a basic land. Moreover, the more you run the worse they get so they actively discourage three color aggro. I like three color aggro and want to support it.
Also, just because I got some extra time here are my thoughts on Rare lands I tried:
Duals
They are good but definitely not overpowered in C/Ube.
Shockduals
Same as the real duals.
Fetch
They support landfall and Worm Harvest. Otherwise, these are actually not all that great unless you add (shock)duals. If you do, they feel too strong for C/Ube for my taste but your milage may vary as I can see the appeal of Duals, Shockduals and fetch as fix in C/Ube.
Pain
These are interesting since the drawback is more relevant in midrange and control especially if they are playing against aggro. I am not sure if I would play all three in a three color midrange deck if all three were in my pool. Probably, but in a four color deck you won't want more than three.
checklands
They become worse the more colors you play but still solid enough. Also become better if you play duals with basic land types like (shock)duals or bi-/tricycle lands.
Mana Confluence
For all intents and purposes a second copy of City of Brass although in most C/Ubes it will be slightly worse as you can't use it to Bolt your opponent for the win when you're on one life.
Reflecting Pool
It becomes better the more multicolored lands you play. Great if you already support three and more color decks. Still solid in two color deck that play a lot of spells each turn (U/R spells matters comes to mind).
Undiscovered Paradise
If you have landfall cards in your cube this is pretty cool. It feels weaker then Gemstone Mine for aggro fix otherwise but not by much.
Why is Force of Will a "technical uncommon"? Alliances had real rares, I believe. In 12-card boosters if I remember correctly. But I still think each booster had dedicated rare-slots.
I may be mistaken, but I thought that cycle was U3 or something like that. I may be wrong, there. I know that's the technicality that makes City of Brass and Sylvan Library uncommon. Alliances may have happened after they stopped doing that. Either way, I don't run Force of Will.
Interesting conversation. I don't have anything to really add except that I, too, am a purist and don't break rarity on my lands. The fixing isn't bad (I've had player go 4 and 5 color), it's just slow, but that's the trade-off. I've also gone monocolored, where all I needed were basics. Playing multiple colors comes at a cost.
Do I wish we had more options? Sure. Personally, I believe Fabled Passage should have been printed at uncommon - it is sometimes better than the commons Evolving Wilds/Terramorphic Expanse but not usually as good as the rare Prismatic Vista. I honestly believe Fabled Passage was designed at uncommon power level but bumped to rare to sell packs, but if it doesn't have a common or uncommon symbol, I don't allow it (I'm the type of guy who hunts down an uncommon printing even if I already own a rare version of the same card, though).
A cycle that nobody talkes so far are the fastlands (seachrome coast), which would be especially interesting for aggro decks.
Also, what do we think about the trioms? Probably only worth the upgrade to trilands if you run fetchlands, which might than offer too much nonsense fixing?
The cycling on the tricycle lands is not irrelevant. Especially if you have cards like Faerie Vandal or Ominous Seas in your cube. They're also good with Checklands like Sunpetal Grove. I considered them but the fact that only half of the tri-lands could be replaced made me drop the idea.
The fastlands are interesting but I personally didn't consider them as a already had a full cycle of foil painlands which fill a somewhat simialr role albeit less restrictive.
I've added rare lands to my cube and I'm very happy with it. I was just always so frustrated with the mana fixing coming into play tapped and being so bad in aggressive decks. In the end I want decks to be able to play their cards on curve and rare fixing has allowed for that to be the case.
I'm mostly just avoiding the duals+fetches combo and anything that feels like it has to be rare, like man lands. Duals+Fetches I think is just too powerful for peasant, and would lead to people pretty much always first picking a dual or fetch.
Not only do you tend to make a lot of sense, I enjoy reading your posts in Petyr's choppy, breathy voice. What a great character.... for 6 years
You may also have more of an interest in Kird Ape, Wild Nacatl, and the Flinthoof Boar/Dauntless River Marshal cycles.
My cube discussion thread
Gave your cube a whirl, and I have to say it felt very smooth: at 410, I wasn't flooded with lands over playables, and the ease of fixing meant I could more happily splash 1 - 2 ofs in an aggro deck (fx. including Overgrown Tomb for Lingering souls off of a Windswept Heath).
- The number of 4 or 5cc decks increased quite a lot during the first few weeks but came down again after aggro players started to realize they should pick their fix higher as it's actually playable now in their decks.
- The number of non-aggro decks that splashed a third color didn't increased. Turns out having a full set of tricolor lands and gain 1 life duals and 5 vivids is better for splashing in these decks.
- The number of aggro decks that splashed a third color did increased a bit.
- Having 10 fetch didn't significantly increase the power level of some cards. Most decks end up with 1 or 2 fetch so unless you drafted them very aggressively cards like Brainstorm and Sensei's Divining Top were still just okish so I cut them again.
- The only exception to the previous statement were aggro landfall creatures (mainly Steppe Lynx and Plated Geopede). Before I rated Lynx below almost every 2 power 1 drop and Geopede below almost every other 3 power 2 drop. Now there are somewhat average and worth playing.
- Having 10 duals and 10 shockduals also didn't significantly increase the power level of some cards with the obvious exception of Farseek. Kird Ape is somewhat better but not much and Wild Nacatl became a little better since aggro decks with a third color were a bit more common.
My C/Ube on Cube Cobra
I just hate the land situation in peasant cube, since not only most lands come into play tapped, but also picking lands doesnt feel rewarding or interesting at all, which is something I really miss in our environment.
Basically I am thinking about two solutions...
I.) Adding Fetchlands and Shocklands. While this feels very much like powered or unpowered cube, mana fixing is covered with this solution. Plus, this adds subtle complexity as Fetchlands shuffle the deck and thereby support iconic magic cards (Brainstorm , Top), they go to the graveyard for Worm Harvest and Delve shenanigans, they double trigger landfall, etc..
II) Adding duals that feel more peasant such as the Glacial Fortress or Adarkar Wastes. They will get the job done, but they dont offer any synergy compared to the fetchlands.
@ArBoR4817: Do you still cube with the fetchlands or were you able to generate more experience with them in a cube environment?
My Peasant Cube: @ mtgsalvation---- @ cubecobra
I'm mostly just avoiding the duals+fetches combo and anything that feels like it has to be rare, like man lands. Duals+Fetches I think is just too powerful for peasant, and would lead to people pretty much always first picking a dual or fetch.
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/djredpeasant
Agreed on pretty much all fronts. I recently made the switch to include a subset of rare lands as well, and it's been a very positive change. Pain lands, Check lands, Bicycle lands, and even Shock lands (not nearly as high of a power-level when they can't be fetched) all feel fine at Peasant. They don't really change the raw power level of the cube, they simply add consistency and result in more games where both players can actually cast their spells on curve (ya know, good games of Magic). Plus they end up being decently high picks, especially compared to trilands/vivids, which makes the decision making during a draft much more interesting.
It's been said in the past, but WotC has basically admitted that their hesitance to print lands at lower rarities has nothing to do with power level and everything to do with selling packs. That helps remove any philosophical qualms I might have about breaking rarity.
Personally, fetchlands are where it feels like we start creeping into powered/unpowered territory, specifically because now your lands are adding this additional utility (shuffling, graveyard filling, landfall, etc). Plus who actually likes all that extra shuffling? I'm happy to (mostly) escape it at Peasant.
Formerly hedgehogger
I've never moved in, but my thought would be if I'd go with rare lands to go with temples plus painlands.
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
- Fabled Passage
- Grand Coliseum
- Mana Confluence
- Prismatic Vista
- Reflecting Pool
- Undiscovered Paradise
I am happy with it. I did notice that once i replaced the tri-color lands with duals that fixing took a hit since you can play a specific dual in less decks than a specific tri-land. I am thinking of adding a third cycle of lands (probably pain) because of this but the eternal question of what to cut...My C/Ube on Cube Cobra
I've been testing Fetches with no duals/shocks, and they have been about what I had expect. Kinda nice for random things like Delve, Escape and Shuffling, but in all honesty, worse than any of the other rare cycles I've tried (painlands, checklands, fastlands). This is because they can only get one of the colors, which can make it a lot worse in a 3 or 4 color deck.
I think I will trade out the fetches for shock lands, as they just provide better fixing, and don't require people to have to shuffle.
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/djredpeasant
I think if you're not enjoying the peasant format with its bad fixing, you should probably just be looking to build a lower power level legacy cube. If you're willing to break the peasant restriction for fixing, why not also break it to allow for decent rares? Peasant would love a white board sweeper, for example. Why not include one of the lower power level ones like Winds of Wrath or similar?
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
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Because peasant cube just doesn't really function without rare dual lands, IMO. Playing aggro decks is so punishing when cards like ember hauler are essentially off limits entirely (because monocolor is mostly non-viable), and even attempting to play ETB tapped duals for fixing sets you back an entire turn. Couple this with the fact that aggro decks are already inherently worse in a format where every deck is playing random grizzly bears regardless of archetype, and there's some of the best removal of all time (path to exile, etc) and you have a format where aggro really can't compete.
My solution is to give them functional mana and cut back on the number of aggro punisher cards where I can (no arc lightning, for instance)
RW in particular, and also RB, can have very good aggro decks. Often, I have been on the receiving end of these and found that my random grizzly bears don't stem the bleeding as planned because of stuff like Ahn-Crop Crasher, Territorial Hammerskull, Madcap Skills, or even just a Kongming, "Sleeping Dragon" coming down and making my blocks bad.
And while tapped fixing is suboptimal, particularly for aggro, most decks and games don't play out exactly on curve, so going two-drop into two-drop+tapland into four-drop is a good line too.
I know people on here have also had good results with pushing blue aggro.
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
While I get what you are saying, I think breaking the rule for fixing is not the same as breaking the rule for "real cards" (the addition of Fetchlands is debatable as these do more than just fixing). The goal with adding rare lands is to let players play their cards on curve more frequently especially for XX mana costs. I dont add an additional effect as I would with inclusion of a white wrath, I let my players play the C/U effect more reliable. I just want to create an environment that lets you cast your C/U cards on time and that also makes drafting lands rewarding. Lets say I draft Boros aggro, I just do not want to take a Boros dual that etb tapped and this is just a dilemma in cube design we face at the C/U level.
I think we can all agree that some dual land cycles are printed at rare not because of their powerlevel, but because of selling-packs reasons. I really wish, Wizards would make a cube product (like a Commander Set), in which Painlands or Checklands are printes as uncommons.
My Peasant Cube: @ mtgsalvation---- @ cubecobra
As for aggro, I think it is very viable, you just need to make sure to support it properly. Mono-color is definitely viable as long as you have enough density of 1 and 2 drops in the colors you want to support. However, dual color aggro throws out a lot of the benefits of aggro if you don't have good fixing. The strength of aggro comes from consistency and efficiency, you get to play your 1 and 2 drops out early and start beating down right away. It gets a lot worse if you don't have one of your colors and you miss out on being able to play a one drop on turn one.
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/djredpeasant
Do untapped duals even help aggro more than other decks? If an etbt dual causes a deck to miss a play vs aggro they're probably losing at least 1-2 mana, while in aggro you probably don't lose any mana. There's also at most 1 pain land aggro can play, while decks with splashes can play 3. Obviously aggro's mana is bad for 1 drops, but that's why you autopick stuff like Gemstone Mine or City of Brass.
With all that said, though...
This is quite a bold statement and I couldn't disagree more. To me peasant tends to play like a very powerful limited environment where, even if you're on the classic 9/8 split, your deck can still function pretty well. Decks tend to be more often midrange than not, but aggro and control are there and still viable, even with the ETBT fixing.
That makes sense, but my point still stands. Adding in rare fixing is a bit of a slippery slope. You have to be able to draw that line in the sand and tell yourself those are the only rares you're allowing. Personally, adding in the pain lands made me want to experiment with other rares that "felt" uncommon. I could easily see the pain lands being printed at uncommon and being ok for that set as a whole, but like we established, rare lands sell packs, so we won't see that any time soon. They do "feel" uncommon, though, so what else could I add in that felt the same way? I added several rares that I thought had that same feeling of being an easy target for an uncommon reprint. Ultimately, I didn't like where that cube went, so I scrapped the whole thing. I realized that if I wanted that experience, I was better off trying to build a legacy legal list and just tone the power down a bit, so that's what I did. I also rebuilt my peasant cube and gave it a commons/uncommons only restriction. I'm not even running the technical uncommons like City of Brass or Force of Will. The only "exceptions" I make are the MTGO only uncommons.
Ultimately it's each cube builder's choice as to what they want their cube experience to be. If you think you and your crew will have more fun drafting commons and uncommons alongside shock lands and pain lands, then it's absolutely correct for you to do that. There's no wrong way to build a cube. For me, I'd just rather my peasant list be peasant in every aspect. I love limited Magic, which is why I think I love playing my peasant cube so much.
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
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And I think Purple's points are good:
-Aggro suffers more from the good removal (specially 2-for-1) than from a lack of fixing, IMO.
-Aggro can often play ETBT-lands without massive drawbacks (although sometimes they will bite you, of course).
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
In two color aggro decks I usually don't put etbt lands in my deck even if they are in my pool. Sure, often it won't be a problem to run etbt lands in aggro but mostly because you draw them late. There are few situations in two color aggro deck in which a etbt dual is really better than a basic land. Especially compared to situations in which the etbt land is worse than a basic land. Moreover, the more you run the worse they get so they actively discourage three color aggro. I like three color aggro and want to support it.
Also, just because I got some extra time here are my thoughts on Rare lands I tried:
Duals
They are good but definitely not overpowered in C/Ube.
Shockduals
Same as the real duals.
Fetch
They support landfall and Worm Harvest. Otherwise, these are actually not all that great unless you add (shock)duals. If you do, they feel too strong for C/Ube for my taste but your milage may vary as I can see the appeal of Duals, Shockduals and fetch as fix in C/Ube.
Pain
These are interesting since the drawback is more relevant in midrange and control especially if they are playing against aggro. I am not sure if I would play all three in a three color midrange deck if all three were in my pool. Probably, but in a four color deck you won't want more than three.
checklands
They become worse the more colors you play but still solid enough. Also become better if you play duals with basic land types like (shock)duals or bi-/tricycle lands.
Individual lands
Fabled Passage
Obviously solid as it is a better Terramorphic Expanse but powerlevel feels really appropriate imho.
Prismatic Vista
Also a better version of Terramorphic Expanse. Feels strong but not as strong as City of Brass for instance.
Grand Coliseum
Interesting version of City of Brass. Feels appropriate in C/Ube.
Mana Confluence
For all intents and purposes a second copy of City of Brass although in most C/Ubes it will be slightly worse as you can't use it to Bolt your opponent for the win when you're on one life.
Reflecting Pool
It becomes better the more multicolored lands you play. Great if you already support three and more color decks. Still solid in two color deck that play a lot of spells each turn (U/R spells matters comes to mind).
Undiscovered Paradise
If you have landfall cards in your cube this is pretty cool. It feels weaker then Gemstone Mine for aggro fix otherwise but not by much.
My C/Ube on Cube Cobra
I may be mistaken, but I thought that cycle was U3 or something like that. I may be wrong, there. I know that's the technicality that makes City of Brass and Sylvan Library uncommon. Alliances may have happened after they stopped doing that. Either way, I don't run Force of Will.
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
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Do I wish we had more options? Sure. Personally, I believe Fabled Passage should have been printed at uncommon - it is sometimes better than the commons Evolving Wilds/Terramorphic Expanse but not usually as good as the rare Prismatic Vista. I honestly believe Fabled Passage was designed at uncommon power level but bumped to rare to sell packs, but if it doesn't have a common or uncommon symbol, I don't allow it (I'm the type of guy who hunts down an uncommon printing even if I already own a rare version of the same card, though).
2023 Average Peasant Cube|and Discussion
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Useful Resources:
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ManabaseCrafter
Also, what do we think about the trioms? Probably only worth the upgrade to trilands if you run fetchlands, which might than offer too much nonsense fixing?
My Peasant Cube: @ mtgsalvation---- @ cubecobra
The fastlands are interesting but I personally didn't consider them as a already had a full cycle of foil painlands which fill a somewhat simialr role albeit less restrictive.
My C/Ube on Cube Cobra
I am tempted to test the new trioms and the Amonkhet cycle lands. This gives each color pair 2 lands that fix their color.
Not only do you tend to make a lot of sense, I enjoy reading your posts in Petyr's choppy, breathy voice. What a great character.... for 6 years
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article