I've been trawling these great threads as I dip into the world of peasant cube. I really enjoyed blacksmithy's exploration of different archetypes, but it looks like they weren't all finished, so I'd love to kickstart the remaining guilds.
This is going to be more a learning experience for me rather than a contributory one, but I'll update this post as more archetypes or deck themes are added.
My Selesnya section doesn't have a specific focus yet (one of the reasons for starting with this guild) but tokens seems the perfect fit for the guild, with plenty of token generators in both. Imperious Perfect, both green and white value creatures that replace themselves when they die, Cloudgoat Ranger, Raise the Alarm/Gather the Townsfolk etc, plus the token boosters. Sprout Swarm and convoke are also good support for the deck.
What themes do you support in Selesnya?
Archetypes so far; Tokens - Token generators like Imperious Perfect, Jade Mage, Cloudgoat Ranger etc plus token boosters (Intangible Virtue, Phantom General) and swarm the opponent. Enchantress - 'More enchantment matters' than true enchantress effects. Stuff that cares about enchantments, recursion, bestow creatures. Yavimaya Enchantress, Dowsing Shaman, seals instead of spells, which can synergise with already playable enchantments like Armadillo Cloak, Rancor, Griffin Guide. Pillowfort - Early stall cards like Walls, Ghostly Prions, Constant Mists + Cenn's Enlistment (Land Tax synergy) with a few ramp-style finishers. +1/+1 Counters - Use +1/+1 counter enablers (Juniper Order Ranger, Travel Preparations) with +1+1 lords (Crowned Ceratok, Abzan Falconer) with other good +1/+1 creatures (phantoms, evolvers, graft, spikes). Chronicler of Heroes and Solidarity of Heroes can push the theme. Reanimator - Use green and whites version of reanimation spells (Breath of Life, Reincarnation) with discard or cycling enablers. Voltron - Focusing on getting an evasive/hard to kill guy large by throwing auras, equipment and pump up at it. Hexproof, protection, and doublestrike all relevant abilities. Guardian of the Guildpact also great with equipment and Armadillo Cloak. Path to victory is to keep it alive and smash through defenses. Can be fragile.
Tokens is probably the best idea -- there are a ton of good lifegain effects in G/W (that you'd play without "archetype" support), but very few cards that actually CARE about it other than Ajani's Pridemate.
Anyway, here's the cards we voted on in Peasant rankings for the guild:
Of note, Finks will of course get played in a ton of non-Selesyna decks (anyone who can cast WW or GG mana)... and Summoner is basically a mono-green ramp card that requires you to play one Plains to get off Cultivate-type cards.
I'd previously been considering Crystal Chimes as a build around card, and I wondered whether Selesnya could push an enchantment matters theme. I think the answer is that it is viable, though I suspect to make it competitive you'd have to push it hard and force cards that most other decks wouldn't want. Nevertheless, I see the purpose of these threads to explore these options even if they might not work out.
Other Stuff
Licids
Sphere of Safety (Looks like this could an auto-win if opponent can't deal with it though)
Blink effects also work nicely with triggering the constellation cards.
Seals instead of spells Thaumatog
If Sterling Grove gave hexproof instead of shroud it would be a great anchor card for this archetype in guild colours. I'd see the path to victory to be value-based control, clogging the board and gaining card advantage with retrieval creatures, and building an overwhelming board state with some aura-pumped creatures and a few timely constellation triggers.
Tokens is probably the best idea -- there are a ton of good lifegain effects in G/W (that you'd play without "archetype" support), but very few cards that actually CARE about it other than Ajani's Pridemate.
Looks like all the 'life matters' cards are in the rare slot. There is an enchantment that does the same thing as Ajani's Pridemate, but it costs more and doesn't have a body attached.
I appreciate the discussion of an Enchantress theme, but the major problem is the one you mention in your first few sentences -- the cards that make the archetype work are useless in every deck OTHER than one dedicated to this theme.
I also don't like the idea of aura-based decks in Limited -- sounds too much like Theros drafting: throw a bunch of enchantments on one creature. If they don't have removal, you win. If they do, you probably lose.
I've seen some cube people work around this by adding hexproof creatures -- but that sounds even MORE miserable and non-interactive to play with/against.
I appreciate the discussion of an Enchantress theme, but the major problem is the one you mention in your first few sentences -- the cards that make the archetype work are useless in every deck OTHER than one dedicated to this theme.
I also don't like the idea of aura-based decks in Limited -- sounds too much like Theros drafting: throw a bunch of enchantments on one creature. If they don't have removal, you win. If they do, you probably lose.
I've seen some cube people work around this by adding hexproof creatures -- but that sounds even MORE miserable and non-interactive to play with/against.
I wanted to explore the theme in full, but I think you could sprinkle a few of these things in the cube; it would be obvious with a few narrow cards, but you could limit it. Dowsing Shaman, Yavimaya Enchantress, use Seals instead of spell versions, the solid enchantments listed, maybe Reviving Melody. Maybe throw in a few bestow creatures.
I don't think this will find its way into my cube at this point, but it might be interesting as a temporary switch.
The +1/+1 theme can also have some cross-pollination with Simic if you support it in blue with the evolvers and grafters there. There aren't a lot of persist options, but those plus Juniper Order Ranger gives you recursion. Kitchen Finks is already solid.
I like potentially janky options, as it probably won't be what people expect. I think once you get above 4 mana, it's a bit much to pay for reanimation, but if you already support black as a base reanimator, it can allow for reanimator decks with various colour combinations.
I'm experimenting with this in my cube. Haven't had a chance to test it out in a live draft yet, but I've drafted some decks that look sweet on Cubetutor like this one.
I don't get into making themes out of my gold sections. It's only 3 or 4 spells in most lists, and I instead try to just throw each speed of deck a bone as much as possible/where warranted
I don't get into making themes out of my gold sections. It's only 3 or 4 spells in most lists, and I instead try to just throw each speed of deck a bone as much as possible/where warranted
The thread isn't really about gold cards, it's about themes/archetypes when building G/W decks, which might not have any gold cards. Gold cards don't have to support specific archetypes or subthemes, but I think the can be used as a signal if there is a particular theme you have supported with other mono-coloured cards.
One of my favorite (albeit narrow and fragile) G/W archetypes is suiting/pumping up double strikers/hexproof/protection guys. Double strikers+Giant Growth effects, hexproof/Guardian of the Guildpact+auras/equipment, stuff like that. It's very fun to pull off, but very fragile and/or unfun to play against at times.
I've added this to the list. I'm learning about archetype names etc, I think this could be considered Voltron? If I've got it wrong I can update.
On the mention of Life From the Loam, I've often looked at Groundskeeper and wondered if he could do anything relevant, but could never figure out what he would be supporting. Might be ok with the Genju's and maybe cross over to some of reds cards that sacrifice lands for effects?
Living Terrain is certainly worth consideration. It's got some decent crossover and has come up before outside of this kind of discussion. I don't think anyone actually tried it iirc. It's a 5/6 for 5 with haste, or for 4 without haste. pretty decent stats. Having a land tied up is pretty negligible.
Drop of Honey is pretty funky...I used to play it in a casual deck back in the day, but I can't for the life of me remember how I made it good...haha
Arboria is weird. Nice with squirrel nest, centaur glade, and other things that can create things on opponent's turns, but really bad because you want to be putting more lands into play.
To add a card that was popular way back in the day, Flickering Ward might actually have a place here. It's not a fantastic card, but it's quite solid, and if you're looking to repeatedly trigger any sort of constellation-type effect, this is good (also, heroic). Likewise, Cage of Hands seems like a good inclusion if you're running this archetype, but some of you were probably running that already...
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
This is going to be more a learning experience for me rather than a contributory one, but I'll update this post as more archetypes or deck themes are added.
My Selesnya section doesn't have a specific focus yet (one of the reasons for starting with this guild) but tokens seems the perfect fit for the guild, with plenty of token generators in both. Imperious Perfect, both green and white value creatures that replace themselves when they die, Cloudgoat Ranger, Raise the Alarm/Gather the Townsfolk etc, plus the token boosters. Sprout Swarm and convoke are also good support for the deck.
What themes do you support in Selesnya?
Archetypes so far;
Tokens - Token generators like Imperious Perfect, Jade Mage, Cloudgoat Ranger etc plus token boosters (Intangible Virtue, Phantom General) and swarm the opponent.
Enchantress - 'More enchantment matters' than true enchantress effects. Stuff that cares about enchantments, recursion, bestow creatures. Yavimaya Enchantress, Dowsing Shaman, seals instead of spells, which can synergise with already playable enchantments like Armadillo Cloak, Rancor, Griffin Guide.
Pillowfort - Early stall cards like Walls, Ghostly Prions, Constant Mists + Cenn's Enlistment (Land Tax synergy) with a few ramp-style finishers.
+1/+1 Counters - Use +1/+1 counter enablers (Juniper Order Ranger, Travel Preparations) with +1+1 lords (Crowned Ceratok, Abzan Falconer) with other good +1/+1 creatures (phantoms, evolvers, graft, spikes). Chronicler of Heroes and Solidarity of Heroes can push the theme.
Reanimator - Use green and whites version of reanimation spells (Breath of Life, Reincarnation) with discard or cycling enablers.
Voltron - Focusing on getting an evasive/hard to kill guy large by throwing auras, equipment and pump up at it. Hexproof, protection, and doublestrike all relevant abilities. Guardian of the Guildpact also great with equipment and Armadillo Cloak. Path to victory is to keep it alive and smash through defenses. Can be fragile.
Anyway, here's the cards we voted on in Peasant rankings for the guild:
Other often-used cards from CubeTutor aggregate:
Of note, Finks will of course get played in a ton of non-Selesyna decks (anyone who can cast WW or GG mana)... and Summoner is basically a mono-green ramp card that requires you to play one Plains to get off Cultivate-type cards.
My C/Ube on Cube Cobra
Grow with enchantments/auras
Bramble Elemental also has cute synergy with Felidar Umbra or similar Aura's.
Tutors
Graveyard Retrieval
Recursion
Skull is very expensive, but the option is there.
Constellation Creatures
I wasn't around for Theros block, so I don't know how these cards played out. It looks like the synergy would work out.
Solid Enchantments
Other Stuff
Licids
Sphere of Safety (Looks like this could an auto-win if opponent can't deal with it though)
Blink effects also work nicely with triggering the constellation cards.
Seals instead of spells
Thaumatog
If Sterling Grove gave hexproof instead of shroud it would be a great anchor card for this archetype in guild colours. I'd see the path to victory to be value-based control, clogging the board and gaining card advantage with retrieval creatures, and building an overwhelming board state with some aura-pumped creatures and a few timely constellation triggers.
Looks like all the 'life matters' cards are in the rare slot. There is an enchantment that does the same thing as Ajani's Pridemate, but it costs more and doesn't have a body attached.
Based on these responses, is Selesnya more of a 'goodstuff collection'?
Yes, but purely creature-based. Doing something like turn 3 Serra Angel or a turn 4-5 Pelakka Wurm is what Selesnya does best in my cube.
My C/Ube on Cube Cobra
I also don't like the idea of aura-based decks in Limited -- sounds too much like Theros drafting: throw a bunch of enchantments on one creature. If they don't have removal, you win. If they do, you probably lose.
I've seen some cube people work around this by adding hexproof creatures -- but that sounds even MORE miserable and non-interactive to play with/against.
http://www.cubetutor.com/cubedeck/218414
Land Tax/ramp + Constant Mists/Cenn's Enlistment maybe splash red for Goblin Trenches
Ghostly Prison to stall while you churn out tokens
Regrowth/Eternal Witness + Dirty lifegain like Feudkiller's Verdict or Timely Reinforcements
Access to pretty much all life-gain in the cube.
I wanted to explore the theme in full, but I think you could sprinkle a few of these things in the cube; it would be obvious with a few narrow cards, but you could limit it. Dowsing Shaman, Yavimaya Enchantress, use Seals instead of spell versions, the solid enchantments listed, maybe Reviving Melody. Maybe throw in a few bestow creatures.
I don't think this will find its way into my cube at this point, but it might be interesting as a temporary switch.
Might even go deep with Chronicler of Heroes and Solidarity of Heroes.
Or if you want to get real janky, you could use Breath of Life/False Defeat/Resurrection, Reincarnation, Miraculous Recovery, Hymn of Rebirth, Green Graveyard enablers/value cards and various cyclers/spellshapers/miscellaneous discard outlets and big Green and White beaters to force a GW reanimator archetype.
I like potentially janky options, as it probably won't be what people expect. I think once you get above 4 mana, it's a bit much to pay for reanimation, but if you already support black as a base reanimator, it can allow for reanimator decks with various colour combinations.
CubeTutor: www.cubetutor.com/cubeblog/72
Thread: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=512410
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
Aura's on Guardian of the Guildpact
I've added this to the list. I'm learning about archetype names etc, I think this could be considered Voltron? If I've got it wrong I can update.
Kismet
Eidolon of Rhetoric
Multiplayer Cube
Kismet is just bad.
Drop of Honey is pretty funky...I used to play it in a casual deck back in the day, but I can't for the life of me remember how I made it good...haha
Arboria is weird. Nice with squirrel nest, centaur glade, and other things that can create things on opponent's turns, but really bad because you want to be putting more lands into play.