Hey, I just wanted to start some discussion about these guys. By these guys, I refer to any creatures that destroy artifacts or enchantments. Cubes with powerful arifacts, like mine, obviously need them, but I don't know which ones to run and which ones not to. Here are some of the good ones, ignoring functional reprints:
Keening Apparition - Used to run this, but it never got picked, so It got cut. With the new commander curses, I'm thinking of putting it back. Kor Sanctifiers - I run this like everyone else, it's awesome. Targeting both allows it to be maindecked easily, as targets become easy to find. Leonin Relic-Warder - For some reason, I forget about this guy. Probably not quite as good as the sanctifiers, but he's still very solid. Manic Vandal - I don't run him anymore, but I think I maybe should. He's probably worth it. Oxidda Scrapmelter - I have run this for a while, in lieu of the vandals. Not sure which is better, but I have favored scrapmelter for its size. Viridian Shaman - It seems like this is outclassed in green. Thoughts? Nantuko Vigilante - The versatility is nice, but I worry about the cost, and after cutting gathan raiders recently, it would be my only morph. Acidic Slime - Hits lands, so it's never uncastable, and deathtouch ensures the body is always relevant. Awesome card. Tin Street Hooligan - This card seems pretty sweet, and I've been considering adding it. My main concern is that the low cost will no longer be as important by the time good artifacts get played, but just blowing up signets can present a big tempo shift. Qasali Pridemage - This card is like an infinitely better keening apparition. It's versatile, Impacts the board straight away with exalted, and can swing for 3. Great card.
I know I missed a bunch, but this is what I had off the top of my head.
What are your thoughts? How many should a cube run? Which ones? How high should they be picked? Which ones would you maindeck?
Keening Apparition < Ronom Unicorn for unicorn tribal This card lives in the sideboard most of the time, which is just fine for me. Kor Sanctifiers also lives in the sideboard (for me at least). I don't maindeck it, but once an enchantment/artifact comes into play, I know I'll side it in for game 2 and 3. Leonin relic-Warder's double white makes me not like him as much. Manic Vandal just found his way back into my cube. I like him. Oxidda Scrapmelter is a bigger Manic Vandal. I've heard the argument for Oxidda Scrapmelter > Manic Vandal because of the larger body, but if I want to get rid of an artifact, I'd rather get rid of it a turn earlier. But that's me. Viridian Shaman I don't know why I don't run this creature. It's just a colorshifted Manic Vandal. Natuko Vigilante is a card I've wanted in my cube for a while (along with Willbender for another morph card, but that's a discussion for another day). I think he's solid, but may be out classed by Wickerbough Elder. Idk, solid card. Acidic Slime as you said is an awesome card. Tin Street Hooligan would eat up a gruul guild spot, which is unattractive. I don't think he's that good. I'd rather run a Manic Vandal in his place. Qasali Pridemage is an awesome card.
I would actually probably play Ingot Chewer over Oxidda Scrapmelter simply for its versatility. When you absolutely must get rid of the artifact NOW, you may play the Chewer for 1. (I am probably adding it next because I also run Flamekin Harbinger in any case.)
Reclamation Sage will indeed be really good in comparison to the ones which only destroy artifacts, and it will most definitely go in my cube.
I like Leonin Relic-Warder a lot and it's slated to come in if I move up to 360 cards.
I'm not sure on the accurate proportions of these effects. I'm running all of the busted artifacts and enchantments so I think it's a higher priority for me.
What are people's thought on having ETB-creatures versus sac-effect-creatures in this role?
Having an ETB means that you must sometimes consider whether you want to play it as a straight creature, loosing the ability, while a sac-effect creature you can just run out without much concern (except of course opening it up for removal), as you still have it on field to deal with an enchantment/artifact that might hit the field. I guess, more realistically, it will not be there to deal with an enchantment/artifact, but at least it will force your opponent to deal with it. An ETB creature on the other hand, is dead for that purpose once on the field.
I think I like the ETB creatures more, as it means more decisions. Thoughts..?
I play the sac versions (torch fiend, ronom unicorn, sylvok replica).
An important difference hasn't been observed, which is that the sac guys are usually more efficiently costed when there is no target. I'm happy to play a torch fiend on turn 2 if I have no other plays, I am not happy to play manic vandal for the same purpose. Yes, I can get a free bear for my 3 mana sorcery speed shatter, but that upside just isn't great enough.
However, of course there are instances where the body or the flexibility is just worth it on the etb guys. Acidic slime, and the new reclamation sage fit that
I hadn't heard of duergar hedge mage. That card looks great. Tin street hooligan would replace ancient grudge, since I have a big multicolor section and can afford to lose a gruul spot. I'll think about ingot chewer.
Keening Apparition - Used to run this, but it never got picked, so It got cut. With the new commander curses, I'm thinking of putting it back.
Kor Sanctifiers - I run this like everyone else, it's awesome. Targeting both allows it to be maindecked easily, as targets become easy to find.
Leonin Relic-Warder - For some reason, I forget about this guy. Probably not quite as good as the sanctifiers, but he's still very solid.
Manic Vandal - I don't run him anymore, but I think I maybe should. He's probably worth it.
Oxidda Scrapmelter - I have run this for a while, in lieu of the vandals. Not sure which is better, but I have favored scrapmelter for its size.
Viridian Shaman - It seems like this is outclassed in green. Thoughts?
Nantuko Vigilante - The versatility is nice, but I worry about the cost, and after cutting gathan raiders recently, it would be my only morph.
Acidic Slime - Hits lands, so it's never uncastable, and deathtouch ensures the body is always relevant. Awesome card.
Tin Street Hooligan - This card seems pretty sweet, and I've been considering adding it. My main concern is that the low cost will no longer be as important by the time good artifacts get played, but just blowing up signets can present a big tempo shift.
Qasali Pridemage - This card is like an infinitely better keening apparition. It's versatile, Impacts the board straight away with exalted, and can swing for 3. Great card.
I know I missed a bunch, but this is what I had off the top of my head.
What are your thoughts? How many should a cube run? Which ones? How high should they be picked? Which ones would you maindeck?
Kor Sanctifiers also lives in the sideboard (for me at least). I don't maindeck it, but once an enchantment/artifact comes into play, I know I'll side it in for game 2 and 3.
Leonin relic-Warder's double white makes me not like him as much.
Manic Vandal just found his way back into my cube. I like him.
Oxidda Scrapmelter is a bigger Manic Vandal. I've heard the argument for Oxidda Scrapmelter > Manic Vandal because of the larger body, but if I want to get rid of an artifact, I'd rather get rid of it a turn earlier. But that's me.
Viridian Shaman I don't know why I don't run this creature. It's just a colorshifted Manic Vandal.
Natuko Vigilante is a card I've wanted in my cube for a while (along with Willbender for another morph card, but that's a discussion for another day). I think he's solid, but may be out classed by Wickerbough Elder. Idk, solid card.
Acidic Slime as you said is an awesome card.
Tin Street Hooligan would eat up a gruul guild spot, which is unattractive. I don't think he's that good. I'd rather run a Manic Vandal in his place.
Qasali Pridemage is an awesome card.
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Beast Within is a card worth mentioning as well. Turn that Loxodon Warhammer into a Nessian Courser.
Indrik Stomphowler is also a fantastic card worth mentioning.
Oblivion Ring also can lock out artifacts and enchantments
Faith's Fetters can do it to equipment kinda. Get rid of the activated ability of equipping. Now you just have to figure out how to get rid of the creature it's on.
I know bounce spells that target permanents don't "destroy," but they are good. Repeal, Riftwing Cloudskate, Into the Roil, and Capsize all do that.
I like destroying/bouncing Grafted Wargear for the double wombo-combo.
Reclamation Sage will indeed be really good in comparison to the ones which only destroy artifacts, and it will most definitely go in my cube.
At the moment, I run (only creatures; not counting other answers):
Kor Sanctifiers
Nevermaker
Riftwing Cloudskate
Æthersnipe
Wickerbough Elder
Acidic Slime
Dinrova Horror
Qasali Pridemage
Trygon Predator
Duergar Hedge-Mage
Duergar Hedge-Mage is a favorite of mine.
I'm running Sylvok Replica until Reclamation Sage comes out. I'm very excited to get the Sage.
I like Leonin Relic-Warder a lot and it's slated to come in if I move up to 360 cards.
I'm not sure on the accurate proportions of these effects. I'm running all of the busted artifacts and enchantments so I think it's a higher priority for me.
Having an ETB means that you must sometimes consider whether you want to play it as a straight creature, loosing the ability, while a sac-effect creature you can just run out without much concern (except of course opening it up for removal), as you still have it on field to deal with an enchantment/artifact that might hit the field. I guess, more realistically, it will not be there to deal with an enchantment/artifact, but at least it will force your opponent to deal with it. An ETB creature on the other hand, is dead for that purpose once on the field.
I think I like the ETB creatures more, as it means more decisions. Thoughts..?
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
An important difference hasn't been observed, which is that the sac guys are usually more efficiently costed when there is no target. I'm happy to play a torch fiend on turn 2 if I have no other plays, I am not happy to play manic vandal for the same purpose. Yes, I can get a free bear for my 3 mana sorcery speed shatter, but that upside just isn't great enough.
However, of course there are instances where the body or the flexibility is just worth it on the etb guys. Acidic slime, and the new reclamation sage fit that
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
450 card Peasant cube thread. Draft it here.
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article