I wanted to start a thread to discuss the effectiveness of the Borderpost artifacts as a way to promote multicoloured decks - example: Fieldmist Borderpost - in Pauper Cube. As a secondary question - can the "posts" be used to promote an artifact archetype deck in the cube, or am I just reaching here?
My first take on Pauper cube was very rudimentary with simple archetypes and very "safe" cards. Our first times drafting it, it was meant with great fanfare from my playgroup and everyone really seemed to enjoy themselves. This joy is tempered for myself however, as I think the excitement may have just been due to the fact that the only cube we have had access to draft in the past years is a Power Cube that hasn't changed all that much since the day it was constructed.
So for the first question: Can the Borderposts be used to promote multicolored decks in the Cube? Or should I be using the Ravnica "bounce lands" or the newer Ravnica Guildgates to promote this colour synergy? I want people to be able to have access to multiple colours easily and the land route seems the easiest way to go. I think having both a set of 10 dual lands and the 5 posts seems like a bit of overkill and I would rather have those 5 spots open for other cards in the cube.
I really want my cube to stand out, and be often updated to stay fresh and playable, that is why I am looking to make sweeping changes to it, even if it isn't that old. The current archetypes in the Cube are very simplistic. You can build decks with an overarching strategy, but these are very vague. G/W Midrange, B/U and B/W Graveyard Matters, various Blue Control Shells, Delver, G/R aggro/tempo, as well as others provide a basic outline of the playable decks in the cube. I want to add more utility to the deck as well as focus the archetypes - while adding archetypes that are common place in Magic and have been enjoyed by millions in various formats over the years.
And with the above in mind; could the Borderposts be used to promote an affinity deck within the Cube? I want to add archetypes like Goblins to the cube and was thinking Artifact Affinity could be pretty cool but it seems like it might be hard to implement. I don't want it to feel forced, or take away from other strategies. It's hard to deny the power level of cards like Auriok Sunchaser & Galvanic Blast if you can enable their Metalcraft ability. Could the posts be added to the Cube and help implement an overarching Artifact/Affinity strategy with cards like Cranial Plating and the other usual suspects?
Any thoughts on both mana fixing and Affinity in Pauper Cube will be greatly appreciated. Thanks for your time and feedback.
I started my cube with the same thoughts. I added Goblins Tribal, Metalcraft, Affinity and Multicolor dudes like Grixis Grimblade
In the end nothing works. The synergies are too fringe and not supported enough by the cardpool available unless you devote the whole cube to it. Like Al^s Artifact Cube.
My advice is to add at least 20 duals. The 10 bouncelands and the 10 Guildgates. I split the Guildgates and the Borderposts 5/5, because I like the Posts a bit more and balanced the colors with gates. The bouncelands are absolutely staple at least.
I wouldnt cut on manafixing though, its necessary for 3C approaches. Thats why I (re)added
Thanks for the advice. Your opening sentence sums up what I was thinking. It's easy to add some tribal elements without going to hardcore as many goblins/soldiers/birds/etc have other powerful effects; ie. Sparksmith or Thraben Sentry, but to go into other archetypes that require more work like Affinity I feel I would have to devote to many slots to make it work consistently.
Are you running a 360 cube with 20 dual lands? I had a theoretical build that used all 20 but I had a hard time getting the cube back to 360 (it was sitting at 370). Maybe I shouldn't be so hung up on it having 360? Thoughts?
As far as the other 5 land fixers you listed I have always run 4 of them, never having used Transguild Promenade.
well, I had humans/soldier tribal, goblins tribal and elves tribal in the beginning. Now, after tweaking it to a broken powerlevel, nothing is left. Even Sparksmith would be just a worse Fireslinger
Yes im running 20 duals. You can look up my lists in my signature.
So after all the awesome feedback I have been getting since becoming more active on the forums here I have decided to take my cube from 360 up to 420. I want the cube to draft more like a regular M:tG draft - as in you won't always have access to every card in the set - to make the game more varied and fun, while supporting the more complex and varied archetypes that a 420 Cube can accommodate.
As far as supporting mana bases goes, if I run all 10 Rav Karoos and all 10 Rav Guildgates, is it also wise to run the 10 Rav signets, or is this overkill? Has anyone every tried balancing the 5 Borderposts by including the 5 off colour Ravnica signets? I don't know why I seem to have a soft spot for the Posts, I think I just really love the art on them.
at 420 id run 30 dual fixer. As said, I replaced 5 Gates with Posts, since they play almost the same.
I really don't think they play the same. They're both more versatile and more constrictive at the same time somehow. You can play them as really expensive and narrow mana rocks or they get played as a really slow land that fixes but sets you back an entire turn on land count. None of these options are very appealing to me.
So after all the awesome feedback I have been getting since becoming more active on the forums here I have decided to take my cube from 360 up to 420. I want the cube to draft more like a regular M:tG draft - as in you won't always have access to every card in the set - to make the game more varied and fun, while supporting the more complex and varied archetypes that a 420 Cube can accommodate.
As far as supporting mana bases goes, if I run all 10 Rav Karoos and all 10 Rav Guildgates, is it also wise to run the 10 Rav signets, or is this overkill? Has anyone every tried balancing the 5 Borderposts by including the 5 off colour Ravnica signets? I don't know why I seem to have a soft spot for the Posts, I think I just really love the art on them.
People have different opinions, and I've seen large cubes both with and without the Signets. Personally, I don't run them, for a few reasons:
1. In my cube, green is responsible for being the "mana-fixing color." If you want to play three colors, green is usually the color to splash because so many of its cards allow you to fish for basic lands and fix your mana. Signets allow you to splash for a third color without any trouble, and while that's great for people who don't want green to be a mana-fixer in their cube, it doesn't work for mine.
2. Green is also the "ramp" color in my cube. Between all the mana-dorks and basic land rampers, no color ramps into big creatures more effectively than green in my cube. Signets undermine this, allowing any color combination to ramp, whether or not green is involved. Basically, the signets can do a lot that, in my opinion, green should be able to do almost exclusively in a healthy and diverse draft environment. If any color pair can mana-fix and ramp without needing to play green, green gets a lot weaker. Why take Cultivate/Kodama's Reach/any number of mana-fixing green cards when you can grab basically any signet you want (as long as it shares at least one color in common with your deck) and ramp just as effectively?
3. I'd rather replace those 10 slots with unique utility artifacts (making sure to provide equal support for both aggro and control!) that can supplement my preexisting archetypes. This is just a personal choice, but I think it makes my cube a lot more fun to draft.
So yeah, for my cube, the inclusion of the signets means A. Significantly undermining green's ability to mana-fix and ramp, B. 10 fewer slots to play interesting cards in, and C. Overkill on the mana-fixing side (In my opinion, you should have enough mana-fixing available to you between your artifact suite, your lands, and green, without having to spend another ten slots on signets).
Your cube goals may vary, but that's why signets aren't included in my cube.
at 420 id run 30 dual fixer. As said, I replaced 5 Gates with Posts, since they play almost the same.
I really don't think they play the same. They're both more versatile and more constrictive at the same time somehow. You can play them as really expensive and narrow mana rocks or they get played as a really slow land that fixes but sets you back an entire turn on land count. None of these options are very appealing to me.
It doesnt set you back, its the same as playing a Guildgate (if you have a basic in play)
at 420 id run 30 dual fixer. As said, I replaced 5 Gates with Posts, since they play almost the same.
I really don't think they play the same. They're both more versatile and more constrictive at the same time somehow. You can play them as really expensive and narrow mana rocks or they get played as a really slow land that fixes but sets you back an entire turn on land count. None of these options are very appealing to me.
It doesnt set you back, its the same as playing a Guildgate (if you have a basic in play)
But you can shatter/naturalize borderposts. That's always worse. Lands are hard to blow up in pauper.
The borderposts can be played as ramp, though it is quite a bit slower. They are more fragile to artifact destruction so they are worse than guildgates in that degree. They are also worse in the fact that a hand with bounceland borderpost is unkeepable, even guildgate borderpost can be very hard hand to justify keeping.
I have a larger cube but I run 2 sets of guildgates(one foil rtr/gc set, one foil dm set) and a set of bouncelands, among the other color fixing common lands.
As far as other options for affinity, there aren't much because the quality of artifacts and cards that get benefits from them are in low numbers, or are bad when you aren't in that archetype. I am working on a website to go over archetypes and different ways to spruce up the varied options in a cube, and will be making a podcast. I keep putting it off but I should be starting it soon. I just bought a good recording software tonight and I can't wait to use it.
I would just test out with your group what works for you. What I would try doing is making a 60 card deck list with singelton copies and see if you have enough artifacts to spare. If you can make a 60 card singelton deck and have it perform well against say another archetype in your cube with 60 of its available cards, then you may be able to squeeze it in. The reason I say 60 instead of 40 is the fact you won't get everything you want in the draft, and some cards will be taken that you may need.
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I wanted to start a thread to discuss the effectiveness of the Borderpost artifacts as a way to promote multicoloured decks - example: Fieldmist Borderpost - in Pauper Cube. As a secondary question - can the "posts" be used to promote an artifact archetype deck in the cube, or am I just reaching here?
My first take on Pauper cube was very rudimentary with simple archetypes and very "safe" cards. Our first times drafting it, it was meant with great fanfare from my playgroup and everyone really seemed to enjoy themselves. This joy is tempered for myself however, as I think the excitement may have just been due to the fact that the only cube we have had access to draft in the past years is a Power Cube that hasn't changed all that much since the day it was constructed.
So for the first question: Can the Borderposts be used to promote multicolored decks in the Cube? Or should I be using the Ravnica "bounce lands" or the newer Ravnica Guildgates to promote this colour synergy? I want people to be able to have access to multiple colours easily and the land route seems the easiest way to go. I think having both a set of 10 dual lands and the 5 posts seems like a bit of overkill and I would rather have those 5 spots open for other cards in the cube.
I really want my cube to stand out, and be often updated to stay fresh and playable, that is why I am looking to make sweeping changes to it, even if it isn't that old. The current archetypes in the Cube are very simplistic. You can build decks with an overarching strategy, but these are very vague. G/W Midrange, B/U and B/W Graveyard Matters, various Blue Control Shells, Delver, G/R aggro/tempo, as well as others provide a basic outline of the playable decks in the cube. I want to add more utility to the deck as well as focus the archetypes - while adding archetypes that are common place in Magic and have been enjoyed by millions in various formats over the years.
And with the above in mind; could the Borderposts be used to promote an affinity deck within the Cube? I want to add archetypes like Goblins to the cube and was thinking Artifact Affinity could be pretty cool but it seems like it might be hard to implement. I don't want it to feel forced, or take away from other strategies. It's hard to deny the power level of cards like Auriok Sunchaser & Galvanic Blast if you can enable their Metalcraft ability. Could the posts be added to the Cube and help implement an overarching Artifact/Affinity strategy with cards like Cranial Plating and the other usual suspects?
Any thoughts on both mana fixing and Affinity in Pauper Cube will be greatly appreciated. Thanks for your time and feedback.
In the end nothing works. The synergies are too fringe and not supported enough by the cardpool available unless you devote the whole cube to it. Like Al^s Artifact Cube.
My advice is to add at least 20 duals. The 10 bouncelands and the 10 Guildgates. I split the Guildgates and the Borderposts 5/5, because I like the Posts a bit more and balanced the colors with gates. The bouncelands are absolutely staple at least.
I wouldnt cut on manafixing though, its necessary for 3C approaches. Thats why I (re)added
T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t
Are you running a 360 cube with 20 dual lands? I had a theoretical build that used all 20 but I had a hard time getting the cube back to 360 (it was sitting at 370). Maybe I shouldn't be so hung up on it having 360? Thoughts?
As far as the other 5 land fixers you listed I have always run 4 of them, never having used Transguild Promenade.
Yes im running 20 duals. You can look up my lists in my signature.
T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t
As far as supporting mana bases goes, if I run all 10 Rav Karoos and all 10 Rav Guildgates, is it also wise to run the 10 Rav signets, or is this overkill? Has anyone every tried balancing the 5 Borderposts by including the 5 off colour Ravnica signets? I don't know why I seem to have a soft spot for the Posts, I think I just really love the art on them.
T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t
I really don't think they play the same. They're both more versatile and more constrictive at the same time somehow. You can play them as really expensive and narrow mana rocks or they get played as a really slow land that fixes but sets you back an entire turn on land count. None of these options are very appealing to me.
People have different opinions, and I've seen large cubes both with and without the Signets. Personally, I don't run them, for a few reasons:
1. In my cube, green is responsible for being the "mana-fixing color." If you want to play three colors, green is usually the color to splash because so many of its cards allow you to fish for basic lands and fix your mana. Signets allow you to splash for a third color without any trouble, and while that's great for people who don't want green to be a mana-fixer in their cube, it doesn't work for mine.
2. Green is also the "ramp" color in my cube. Between all the mana-dorks and basic land rampers, no color ramps into big creatures more effectively than green in my cube. Signets undermine this, allowing any color combination to ramp, whether or not green is involved. Basically, the signets can do a lot that, in my opinion, green should be able to do almost exclusively in a healthy and diverse draft environment. If any color pair can mana-fix and ramp without needing to play green, green gets a lot weaker. Why take Cultivate/Kodama's Reach/any number of mana-fixing green cards when you can grab basically any signet you want (as long as it shares at least one color in common with your deck) and ramp just as effectively?
3. I'd rather replace those 10 slots with unique utility artifacts (making sure to provide equal support for both aggro and control!) that can supplement my preexisting archetypes. This is just a personal choice, but I think it makes my cube a lot more fun to draft.
So yeah, for my cube, the inclusion of the signets means A. Significantly undermining green's ability to mana-fix and ramp, B. 10 fewer slots to play interesting cards in, and C. Overkill on the mana-fixing side (In my opinion, you should have enough mana-fixing available to you between your artifact suite, your lands, and green, without having to spend another ten slots on signets).
Your cube goals may vary, but that's why signets aren't included in my cube.
It doesnt set you back, its the same as playing a Guildgate (if you have a basic in play)
T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t
But you can shatter/naturalize borderposts. That's always worse. Lands are hard to blow up in pauper.
I have a larger cube but I run 2 sets of guildgates(one foil rtr/gc set, one foil dm set) and a set of bouncelands, among the other color fixing common lands.
As far as other options for affinity, there aren't much because the quality of artifacts and cards that get benefits from them are in low numbers, or are bad when you aren't in that archetype. I am working on a website to go over archetypes and different ways to spruce up the varied options in a cube, and will be making a podcast. I keep putting it off but I should be starting it soon. I just bought a good recording software tonight and I can't wait to use it.
I would just test out with your group what works for you. What I would try doing is making a 60 card deck list with singelton copies and see if you have enough artifacts to spare. If you can make a 60 card singelton deck and have it perform well against say another archetype in your cube with 60 of its available cards, then you may be able to squeeze it in. The reason I say 60 instead of 40 is the fact you won't get everything you want in the draft, and some cards will be taken that you may need.
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