I think it's very reasonable to suggest that instant speed spells that can be played for zero mana are different from other tricks. Being able for new players to see their opponent being tapped out as a green light is a good thing, in my opinion. If you play with experienced people or a regular group that's totally cool, but not everyone has that situation.
I disagree. I think in the game of Magic you should always be prepared for something to happen, even if your opponent is tapped out.
Also, not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet or not, but if mutagenic growth (which is the card most people are discussing here) is in someone's pack when drafting I would find it highly unlikely that the card does not make it around the table at least once. There will definitely be a surprise the first game/match it is played in, but the opponent should have seen/read it during the draft. If they didn't read it, then they learn to read/learn what cards do what. I think one of the points people are trying to make in this thread is that playing a trick like mutagenic growth is similar to any trick other played the first time in a game/match.
Yeah -- the tension of "free" spells costing some amount of card disadvantage (Force of Will and friends) or setting back board position (Daze, Gush) or just providing a tiny amount of impact that you would never consider it on a 1CMC card (Gut Shot, Mutagenic Growth) is really enjoyable for me in a Cube setting. If I'm the Omenspeaker deck and my aggro opponent gets a 0-mana way to kill my 1/3 dork in combat, that also means they're that much more likely to have a truly abysmal late-game draw as I'm getting closer to controlling the board.
New to Peasant Cubing, but have lurked around long enough.
A quick question on design:
Folks here seem to value evasion in supporting aggressive decks, whether Welkin Tern in Blue/X tempo or the Soltari Brothers in white aggro. Now, this is an understandable emphasis, as you want to be swinging in as much as possible!
However, at what point does an overabundance of fliers/shadow creatures lead to a general devaluing of those mechanics - i.e, if 50% of your early drops have flying in turn, they're no so evasive, eh?
My other question is if anyone is cubing with 'special' cards - as they are, after all, non rare/mythic - there's several very enticing ones which are timeshifted, namely Call of the Herd, Bad Moon, Shadowmage Infiltrator & Voidmage Prodigy, along with a few promo/FNMP cards which would be powerful while still retaining a peasant 'feel'.
I0 or ahhhabee, do you really find that people who are new to the cube (but not new players) really ever gameplan or ask around combat tricks when someone is tapped out? I keep seeing this argument mention "new players" but it's not new players that I'm concerned about.
I could probably run morph with a list. That... makes me more warmed up to the idea. Not that I like a lot of morphs, though.
@Prances
I don't believe any of us play with the timeshifted cards. Akroma is timeshifted, and you're more or less looking at a junk rare cube community if that's what you're looking at.
There are plenty of aggressive creatures without flying. All of the red ones, and all of the green ones. Welkin tern still gets by all of those. And it still gets by most 3 or 4 drops in all colors.
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I have regular players, but my cube contents shift more regularly.
I don't have any problem with an overabundance of evasive creatures negating the evasion.
There's probably only ever going to be 0-1 decks at the table that want a Soltari Trooper. If two people fight over the shadow creatures and play each other, then that's a neat interaction, not a problem. They're probably both aggro decks anyway so I'm fine for them to operate on the same axis.
What I find is that a lot of the "evasive aggro cards" are only good in the aggro decks, so the defensive decks have much less evasive blockers. The blockers then have to make up for their scarcity by being able to take on multiple creatures over the course of the game to generate card advantage which can be used to win back the tempo that control decks give away in the early game.
Honestly, I'm more worried that over time there will be so many evasive creatures that cards like Omen Speaker will lose all relevance. That's the point where I'll look to dial it back.
As for the special cards, I'm cubeing with commons and uncommons. If the card was never printed at those rarities, it's not legal. That's how I define my format and I think everyone else here does as well. Obviously there's Luddites that don't count online only sets for example but that's beside the point.
I could probably run morph with a list. That... makes me more warmed up to the idea. Not that I like a lot of morphs, though.
If that helps, I have 11 morphs in 440 cards (between 1 in White and 4 in Blue) in the Pauper cube, so in the usual two color decks there's only a range of 3 or 4 possible morphs. It seems to be enough to make people think about the possibilities without being overwhelming. You're playing 80 cards less, so 10 would go even further. I've never looked into morph at uncommon, so I've no idea how many are actually playable, but surely there should be 10 morphs that are worth looking at?
As for the special cards, I'm cubeing with commons and uncommons. If the card was never printed at those rarities, it's not legal. That's how I define my format and I think everyone else here does as well. Obviously there's Luddites that don't count online only sets for example but that's beside the point.
I notice you have painlands, but I suppose that's been discussed to death. Just drafted it, and the fixing feels great.
I disagree. I think in the game of Magic you should always be prepared for something to happen, even if your opponent is tapped out.
Okay, but that's a preference of taste, not an objective rule of the game. Again, I'm not personally against free spells existing or even being cubed, they're just not for me. If you like it, go nuts and enjoy! That's the beauty of cube, everyone can build to their own preferences.
To chime in here on the rarity debate, here is my stance:
I have a cube that is mostly peasant, but if I feel a card would make playing with my cube more fun, then I include it. The main purpose of the cube is to have a good time drafting it, not to have a list of non-rares.
All cards to which my gut instinct is dislike, after looking at a few visual spoilers. Some of them are *rather* powerful. Looking at them by set, it may just be a distaste for the art direction in the last few blocks, however.
All cards to which my gut instinct is dislike, after looking at a few visual spoilers. Some of them are *rather* powerful. Looking at them by set, it may just be a distaste for the art direction in the last few blocks, however.
Edit: promo Heir ain't bad.
I don't agree with some of your list, but I do agree that the last few blocks have been lackluster. All this "imaginative realism" is making every card look the same. Nothing stands out. Terese Nielsen and Rebecca Guay are nowhere to be seen (Origins reprints not withstanding).
For the record, Guay stopped doing magic art because she refocused on her gallary work (and is doing quite well apparently?)
Terese Nielsen got at least 5 new card arts printed last year.
The problem is that, aside from "free" repeatable things like pingers and tappers, if you plan to steal something with Fire Imp and the aura then you've paid 3RR for a Goblin Piker and a Mind Control with huge downside. Then your opponent has just as many possible draws to get the thing right back.
Speaking of dogs -- Noob did you mean the new Jackal Pup or the old one? I'm normally a pretty big Kev Walker fan, but his premium deck one just looks awful (and isn't helped at all by the crappy foiling process those cards came with). The Van Camp original is just great. I mean, that's not how a human chin really looks, but it's still sweet.
The cool-jerk-in-a-hoodie Counterspell is abysmal. Masques, Judge, and Tempest are the best in that order.
5th Counterspell is easily the best. It's the only counterspell art that tells a story on its own. Look at the disappointment in that face, it's hilarious. I'll even take the white border for that.
I definitely prefer some cards over others due to art, but Topan Freeblade is one of few I don't think I'll ever cube because I find it so ugly. The framing and pose are weird, but mostly it's the "who needs a background, just whitewash it" laziness that bothers me.
Jhessian Infiltrator also comes to mind as a card I like mechanically but has the blandest art.
On the flip side, sometimes I've questioned just how good Into the Roil is, but the foil is just too pretty to give up. The way the water gets the foil effect while the foreground objects don't creates an almost 3D effect, it's quite nice.
I definitely prefer some cards over others due to art, but Topan Freeblade is one of few I don't think I'll ever cube because I find it so ugly. The framing and pose are weird, but mostly it's the "who needs a background, just whitewash it" laziness that bothers me.
Jhessian Infiltrator also comes to mind as a card I like mechanically but has the blandest art.
On the flip side, sometimes I've questioned just how good Into the Roil is, but the foil is just too pretty to give up. The way the water gets the foil effect while the foreground objects don't creates an almost 3D effect, it's quite nice.
I like Into the Roil. In my opinion a better jilt. Returning a non-land permanent can be clutch (burning rage with 5+ counters on it, and I find that the possibility of cycling it too is pretty nice.
I disagree. I think in the game of Magic you should always be prepared for something to happen, even if your opponent is tapped out.
Also, not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet or not, but if mutagenic growth (which is the card most people are discussing here) is in someone's pack when drafting I would find it highly unlikely that the card does not make it around the table at least once. There will definitely be a surprise the first game/match it is played in, but the opponent should have seen/read it during the draft. If they didn't read it, then they learn to read/learn what cards do what. I think one of the points people are trying to make in this thread is that playing a trick like mutagenic growth is similar to any trick other played the first time in a game/match.
My 180 Peasant Cube on Cubetutor
New to Peasant Cubing, but have lurked around long enough.
A quick question on design:
Folks here seem to value evasion in supporting aggressive decks, whether Welkin Tern in Blue/X tempo or the Soltari Brothers in white aggro. Now, this is an understandable emphasis, as you want to be swinging in as much as possible!
However, at what point does an overabundance of fliers/shadow creatures lead to a general devaluing of those mechanics - i.e, if 50% of your early drops have flying in turn, they're no so evasive, eh?
My other question is if anyone is cubing with 'special' cards - as they are, after all, non rare/mythic - there's several very enticing ones which are timeshifted, namely Call of the Herd, Bad Moon, Shadowmage Infiltrator & Voidmage Prodigy, along with a few promo/FNMP cards which would be powerful while still retaining a peasant 'feel'.
Cheers.
I could probably run morph with a list. That... makes me more warmed up to the idea. Not that I like a lot of morphs, though.
@Prances
I don't believe any of us play with the timeshifted cards. Akroma is timeshifted, and you're more or less looking at a junk rare cube community if that's what you're looking at.
There are plenty of aggressive creatures without flying. All of the red ones, and all of the green ones. Welkin tern still gets by all of those. And it still gets by most 3 or 4 drops in all colors.
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I have regular players, but my cube contents shift more regularly.
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
There's probably only ever going to be 0-1 decks at the table that want a Soltari Trooper. If two people fight over the shadow creatures and play each other, then that's a neat interaction, not a problem. They're probably both aggro decks anyway so I'm fine for them to operate on the same axis.
What I find is that a lot of the "evasive aggro cards" are only good in the aggro decks, so the defensive decks have much less evasive blockers. The blockers then have to make up for their scarcity by being able to take on multiple creatures over the course of the game to generate card advantage which can be used to win back the tempo that control decks give away in the early game.
Honestly, I'm more worried that over time there will be so many evasive creatures that cards like Omen Speaker will lose all relevance. That's the point where I'll look to dial it back.
As for the special cards, I'm cubeing with commons and uncommons. If the card was never printed at those rarities, it's not legal. That's how I define my format and I think everyone else here does as well. Obviously there's Luddites that don't count online only sets for example but that's beside the point.
Draft it on Cubetutor here, and CubeCobra here.
Treasure Cruise did nothing wrong.
If that helps, I have 11 morphs in 440 cards (between 1 in White and 4 in Blue) in the Pauper cube, so in the usual two color decks there's only a range of 3 or 4 possible morphs. It seems to be enough to make people think about the possibilities without being overwhelming. You're playing 80 cards less, so 10 would go even further. I've never looked into morph at uncommon, so I've no idea how many are actually playable, but surely there should be 10 morphs that are worth looking at?
I notice you have painlands, but I suppose that's been discussed to death. Just drafted it, and the fixing feels great.
Okay, but that's a preference of taste, not an objective rule of the game. Again, I'm not personally against free spells existing or even being cubed, they're just not for me. If you like it, go nuts and enjoy! That's the beauty of cube, everyone can build to their own preferences.
I have a cube that is mostly peasant, but if I feel a card would make playing with my cube more fun, then I include it. The main purpose of the cube is to have a good time drafting it, not to have a list of non-rares.
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
Well, I certainly think it'd look ever-so-sexy in foil!
Any folk here just... not include some powerful cards because of their heinous, heinous art? (Subjective as it is).
Draft it on Cubetutor here, and CubeCobra here.
Treasure Cruise did nothing wrong.
All cards to which my gut instinct is dislike, after looking at a few visual spoilers. Some of them are *rather* powerful. Looking at them by set, it may just be a distaste for the art direction in the last few blocks, however.
Edit: promo Heir ain't bad.
Draft it on Cubetutor here, and CubeCobra here.
Treasure Cruise did nothing wrong.
I don't agree with some of your list, but I do agree that the last few blocks have been lackluster. All this "imaginative realism" is making every card look the same. Nothing stands out. Terese Nielsen and Rebecca Guay are nowhere to be seen (Origins reprints not withstanding).
My Type 4 stack (Cube Tutor link)
My Peasant Cube thread !!! (380 cards)
Draft my Peasant Cube on Cube Cobra !!!
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
Lets talk dull/bad art:
For the record, Guay stopped doing magic art because she refocused on her gallary work (and is doing quite well apparently?)
Terese Nielsen got at least 5 new card arts printed last year.
Draft it on Cubetutor here, and CubeCobra here.
Treasure Cruise did nothing wrong.
I don't think I could argue that the Ice Age Counterspell art is good, but it's certainly my favorite.
I didn't know that about Guay.
None of those new Terese Nielsen cards are in actual expansions (Revenant got reprinted in Origins, though that's pretty tame for Nielsen).
Also, art is super subjective and everyone is allowed to like or dislike whatever they want.
My Type 4 stack (Cube Tutor link)
Speaking of dogs -- Noob did you mean the new Jackal Pup or the old one? I'm normally a pretty big Kev Walker fan, but his premium deck one just looks awful (and isn't helped at all by the crappy foiling process those cards came with). The Van Camp original is just great. I mean, that's not how a human chin really looks, but it's still sweet.
The cool-jerk-in-a-hoodie Counterspell is abysmal. Masques, Judge, and Tempest are the best in that order.
My 180 Peasant Cube on Cubetutor
Jhessian Infiltrator also comes to mind as a card I like mechanically but has the blandest art.
On the flip side, sometimes I've questioned just how good Into the Roil is, but the foil is just too pretty to give up. The way the water gets the foil effect while the foreground objects don't creates an almost 3D effect, it's quite nice.
My cube discussion thread
I like Into the Roil. In my opinion a better jilt. Returning a non-land permanent can be clutch (burning rage with 5+ counters on it, and I find that the possibility of cycling it too is pretty nice.
My 180 Peasant Cube on Cubetutor