Also looking at a few people's cubes, I notice alot of you run Unsummon over Vapor Snag. What's the general consensus between the two cards? I prefer Vapor Snag because it is a double edged blade of a card- more effective when used on an opponent's creature but makes you pay harder to bounce/protect/recur your own.
That seems pretty dumb. Vapor Snag is way better than Unsummon.
I'm in the process of giving my cube a big overhaul, getting rid of janky cards, filling in some obvious gaps, and reinforcing archetypes. I don't play Magic outside of my cube, so I'm going to have order a bunch of cards and wanted to get some feedback before I do.
If anyone is interested in taking a look, I've tagged the cards I'm intending to remove, and those I'm thinking of adding.
I see you're removing cryptic annelid. Was the scry often not good enough to offset his power poor P/T?
I don't think Cryptic is bad, but it didn't see a lot of play. It would probably perform better alongside some of my other planned swaps, with a bigger push on blink/bounce. The scry is interesting, because it isn't scry 6. It can dig deep if you really need to find an answer, but if you are just generally looking for playables, you might see what you need in the scry 1 and scry 2, minimising the impact of the scry 3.
Also looking at a few people's cubes, I notice alot of you run Unsummon over Vapor Snag. What's the general consensus between the two cards? I prefer Vapor Snag because it is a double edged blade of a card- more effective when used on an opponent's creature but makes you pay harder to bounce/protect/recur your own.
That seems pretty dumb. Vapor Snag is way better than Unsummon.
That's what I thought, but a surprising level of people seem to prefer Unsummon :S
Shuddup! I'm drawing aaaaall the cards :-D But drawing four cards and being left with a Wind Drake on turn three should still put you pretty far ahead. There is no way I could not make that play with those two cards in my opener:-D
But then you're running Aethersnipe
Anyway, I'm ok with draw four, discard 3 (if you count the enchantment), get a 2/2 flier for 3 mana. Seems like winning.
I know it's great, but I'm not sure I want to give white two 1-mana removal spells that can target virtually anything in the cube, and I already have Swords to Plowshares in my collection and would need to order Path. I could be convinced otherwise though, either that I should include both, or swap Path for Swords.
I'm always interested in figuring out what the "right" amount of efficient instant removal is, so I'm curious how this works out. I limit myself to Modern so I get Path and no StP and it feels alright, but there are other areas (black especially) where there are many options for instant-speed removal at 1-2 mana, and it's always hard to make the decision to leave them out. They just usually feel like the best cards to draft and play in cube, but I think it's a good idea to keep them in check so more fragile strategies at least stand a chance.
Of the two though, I think you're correct in running Swords over Path. Depends on the stage of the game of course, but generally a few points of life is less of a drawback than granting them free ramp.
I thought about this some more after my initial post, and I'm going to take a side jaunt to a question I asked a month or so back on this thread; does playing just 2-man or 8-man drafts affect the cube? The consensus was no.
Because I only do 2-mans at the moment, if only one of them is in white, I feel like giving that player 2 of the best removal spells is too much... but that might not be an issue when multiple people are vying for those cards. Just made me think of this issue again.
I had a look at Innistrad once, since it has a repuatation for being one of the best limited environments. Thought I could have a look at how many pieces of unconditional and conditional removal was available there and calculate a frequency of how often these would show up in a pack. That number could then be translated to a number of removal spells for the size of your cube to be at the same level as Innistrad.
I don't necessarily think it would be the right approach to just go with the exact same number, but it could be a starting point and a reference point with which to compare the frequency of removal in your cube.
I can't remember if I actually finished the job, but if I did, the files would be on another computer regardless.
There's too much else at play here though. Soul bond was a big player, as were random cards like, say, spectral flight. A whole theme of creatures waiting to flip and improve. Not a bad environment to be sure, but it was very much set up to let a certain kind of creature based game shine. If you like that, fine. I think
But Soulbond was part of Avacyn Restored which is, from what I remember, called a much too swingy environment. When people praise Innistrad, they mean either the original limited or INN-DKA.
Then again, Innistrad had things like Invisible Stalker + Butcher's Cleaver. I was in the receiving end of that one and it was far from fun.
Sure, it should just be a starting point. But it is a number, and numbers can be good to organise your further analysis. For example, you might end up wanting a removal density of 300% or 33% of that found in Innistrad, but knowing the numbers for your cube and for the published set allows for a comparison and an argument about the reasons for why the numbers should/shouldn't be alike/different.
I thought about this some more after my initial post, and I'm going to take a side jaunt to a question I asked a month or so back on this thread; does playing just 2-man or 8-man drafts affect the cube? The consensus was no.
Because I only do 2-mans at the moment, if only one of them is in white, I feel like giving that player 2 of the best removal spells is too much... but that might not be an issue when multiple people are vying for those cards. Just made me think of this issue again.
I play a lot with two players (usually grid draft). The thing is, with two players hate-drafting is a very viable option and this mitigate things alot (and makes the draft more exciting imho). For instance, in a grid draft you might have to choose between getting a Blastoderm and a Go for the Throat for your deck or only getting the Blastoderm and denying your opponent a Path to Exile. Also, as Squirrely mentioned you're usually drafting a smaller portion of your cube so the white player might not even see either card. Anyway I have yet to discover a draft format (apart from picking cards from the entire cube in turns) in which drafting with two players results in stronger or as strong of a decks as drafting with 6+.
That's not what I meant. But the amount and quality of removal available is pretty important to how the overall limited environment feels. So while the removal didn't make Innistrad, something was right with the removal in that set.
EDIT: and perhaps more importantly. You would have a number for Innistrad (or whatever limited environment you are familiar with), whereupon you could aim to have your cube clock in at some level relative to that known level.
What are people's experiences with/thoughts on Curse of shallow graves? While I'm always leery of asking this kind of question as one's experience with a card is always cube-dependent and therefore subjective, I am interested to see if others have used it and what their thoughts on it are.
My playgroup found it way too oppressive. I think I'm in the minority on that though. It was incredibly strong and the fact that you could usually find a profitable attack every turn to trigger it as well as having the Zombie token itself able to trigger it made it a card I eventually banned.
I think it's a great card, but when a card affects the general morale of the playgroup, I had to take action.
EDIT: Enchantments are harder, in general, to interact with as well.
When we did the rotisserie draft, where you choose from the entire cube, I had the 5th pick. The card I chose was curse of shallow graves.
It's extremely strong, although I've been saying for a while that it isn't obscene. I never found it oppressive except against bad decks. Good decks with good pilots can mitigate it, and it's hard to get active if you have to be judicial with your attack. Of course, like any good engine, it sometimes just takes over.
Has anyone ever tested the card Lavacore Elemental? In adding a WR "Diversion" archetype to my cube and I was looking for cheap, high power creatures and stumbled upon this card. I think a Red-White aggressive deck with enough removal/tap to get through could easily keep this guy around long enough to be relevant.
I have Lavacore in my cube, it's only seen play a few times, one time he was trumped and vanished, the other he was a strong beater. I'm updating my cube which should make the environment better for the Lavacore. I'm hoping he will shine once I make a few swaps and put in a couple more diversion creatures.
Does anyone run wonder in their cube, and if so, how does it do for you? It seems good to me, and would replace trained condor in my list. I'm fine with it eating removal, or smacking for 2 a turn, but curious what others think of it in their cube.
That seems pretty dumb. Vapor Snag is way better than Unsummon.
Draft it on Cubetutor here, and CubeCobra here.
Treasure Cruise did nothing wrong.
I don't think Cryptic is bad, but it didn't see a lot of play. It would probably perform better alongside some of my other planned swaps, with a bigger push on blink/bounce. The scry is interesting, because it isn't scry 6. It can dig deep if you really need to find an answer, but if you are just generally looking for playables, you might see what you need in the scry 1 and scry 2, minimising the impact of the scry 3.
That's what I thought, but a surprising level of people seem to prefer Unsummon :S
Unless you played other stuff, you'd still have to discard 2 of them if you were on the draw
Also:
turn 2 Angelic Renewal
turn 3 Æthersnipe
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
Anyway, I'm ok with draw four, discard 3 (if you count the enchantment), get a 2/2 flier for 3 mana. Seems like winning.
it's christmasy, but well above average value.
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
I'm always interested in figuring out what the "right" amount of efficient instant removal is, so I'm curious how this works out. I limit myself to Modern so I get Path and no StP and it feels alright, but there are other areas (black especially) where there are many options for instant-speed removal at 1-2 mana, and it's always hard to make the decision to leave them out. They just usually feel like the best cards to draft and play in cube, but I think it's a good idea to keep them in check so more fragile strategies at least stand a chance.
Of the two though, I think you're correct in running Swords over Path. Depends on the stage of the game of course, but generally a few points of life is less of a drawback than granting them free ramp.
My cube discussion thread
Because I only do 2-mans at the moment, if only one of them is in white, I feel like giving that player 2 of the best removal spells is too much... but that might not be an issue when multiple people are vying for those cards. Just made me think of this issue again.
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
I don't necessarily think it would be the right approach to just go with the exact same number, but it could be a starting point and a reference point with which to compare the frequency of removal in your cube.
I can't remember if I actually finished the job, but if I did, the files would be on another computer regardless.
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
Then again, Innistrad had things like Invisible Stalker + Butcher's Cleaver. I was in the receiving end of that one and it was far from fun.
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
My C/Ube on Cube Cobra
EDIT: and perhaps more importantly. You would have a number for Innistrad (or whatever limited environment you are familiar with), whereupon you could aim to have your cube clock in at some level relative to that known level.
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
Gathering4Magic Peasant Cube (CubeTutor)
Find me on Twitter: @Gathering4Magic
I think it's a great card, but when a card affects the general morale of the playgroup, I had to take action.
EDIT: Enchantments are harder, in general, to interact with as well.
My Peasant Cube thread !!! (380 cards)
Draft my Peasant Cube on Cube Cobra !!!
It's extremely strong, although I've been saying for a while that it isn't obscene. I never found it oppressive except against bad decks. Good decks with good pilots can mitigate it, and it's hard to get active if you have to be judicial with your attack. Of course, like any good engine, it sometimes just takes over.
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
Gathering4Magic Peasant Cube (CubeTutor)
Find me on Twitter: @Gathering4Magic
Best use is with looting, and there's like... Four? Playable loot creatures plus a handful of spells.
Even then, the blue creatures you want to boost usually have flying anyway. Overall I don't like it much.