As you mentioned, it can be a little awkward, so I don't think it's a automatic staple, but I'd definitely include it at your cube size. Unlike most other fixing lands, it may not get used every draft, but I think it works well for the decks that can use it. I don't currently run it, but I'd definitely add it back in if I expanded.
I just tried it for the first time yesterday, and found it very good. It's an effect that few decks want, but the decks that want it, want it bad. In a Gruul aggro deck, it allowed me to go:
True, but the point is that it can be either one, which gets you out of jams that a basic land cannot. You could make the same argument about any dual land. Yes, you could replace it with a basic land, and if you draw perfectly, you don't need a dual land. Fun Fact: You don't always draw perfectly in Magic.
Right, but all of that can still be played, just not with the Ziggurat. The first few turns of aggro decks are all creatures anyway. By the time you're done, you have the mana for your noncreature spells and/or abilities.
Peasant cubes really need more help if they're going to have aggro decks that compete with midrange and control. If you're trying to play three color aggro with a bunch of Guildgates and Refuges, you're doing it wrong.
Dude, Ancient Ziggurat is one of my favorite lands in the cube. I think it is very good. Its real strength is not for 3 color decks but with two color decks with really odd mana costs. WB is probably the combination that benifits the most as they tend to have heavy color requirements.
I also found it to be good in green aggro decks since you tend to want to play a non green one drop (if no mana elf) and then in to some heavy green 2 or 3 drop.
At 360 it might not be good enough only because it is not as versatile as many of the other lands. But any bigger cubes should totally run it especially alongside gemstone mine and city of brass
Aggro is easily the best theater of deck in my cube. It doesn't need help. It was so good I had to completely redo my blue section.
I just play gasp basic lands.
Nobody built decks that wanted it because those decks wouldn't work if they didn't draw Ziggurat.
If we get more mana-fixing for aggro decks in the future, then this card becomes a lot better because that kind of deck becomes much easier to assemble.
Anyone played with Dragonsoul Knight (or Paragon of the Amesha) in C/Ube? Ramp seems to be a really popular strategy in my cube's first few drafts and it seems like a fun one-card way to subtly push a WUBRG deck.
Anyway, I'll be testing the Knight. If it works well I'll try out the paragon as well.
Anyone played with Dragonsoul Knight (or Paragon of the Amesha) in C/Ube? Ramp seems to be a really popular strategy in my cube's first few drafts and it seems like a fun one-card way to subtly push a WUBRG deck.
Anyway, I'll be testing the Knight. If it works well I'll try out the paragon as well.
Best of luck. I do love me some 5c Honden control teehee
Not to be rude, but I think your reasoning is backwards. If a certain strategy is already popular you probably don't need to push it further. If ramp is getting played a lot as-is, I'd look more at beefing up aggro, for example.
However, if you really want to push five-color ramp that doesn't have to rely on green, here are a few things I'd do:
1. Don't go overboard with ramp and fixing in green. The more you push this archetype in that color, the less likely it will be to get ramp decks with more even color distributions.
2. Push fixing and ramp via artifacts and lands. Signets and Ravnica Karoos are probably the best for this. The new Keyrune cycle might also work if you slow things down and want some man-arocks. Vivids and Trilands are also good.
3. Add more non-green ramp targets like your suggested Knights that reward playing lots of colors. I might look into some spells and creature with domain and sunburst. The Resounding cycle might be an option too.
3. Add more non-green ramp targets like your suggested Knights that reward playing lots of colors. I might look into some spells and creature with domain and sunburst. The Resounding cycle might be an option too.
Ooh ooh! How about Emblazioned Golem?
It's my cube's mascot for a reason: Rewards 3+ color decks by being huge and is versatile enough to be played early with only 2 colors or late with whatever colors you've got.
Now that this whole multicolored block has been spoiled and people are starting to settle their DGM swaps, I was wondering if now would be a good time to have a few MCD threads for guild rankings. Maybe we could all do our top 4-6 rankings or just have a discussion, as I know rankings tend to be an end of year thing.
I think it would be fair to wait until we hit the week before modern masters is fully spoiled. That way we can give the new cards time to breathe a bit.
Yeah, I think waiting at least a month so we get actual play data on the new cards is a good idea. Alternatively, people could start making MCD threads for each guild that can be ongoing discussions instead of static snapshot rankings.
Not to be rude, but I think your reasoning is backwards. If a certain strategy is already popular you probably don't need to push it further. If ramp is getting played a lot as-is, I'd look more at beefing up aggro, for example.
Sorry, I don't think I was as clear as I could've been. What I've noticed is that ramp is strong, and a lot of times I've seen players with the ability to splash lots of colors due to a plethora of ramp but having no reason to, since green has plenty of bombs and you can pick one color to go along with it (probably black) for utility and removal. I guess what I was looking for was a flashy card to give ramp decks a reason to go 5-color.
However, if you really want to push five-color ramp that doesn't have to rely on green, here are a few things I'd do:
1. Don't go overboard with ramp and fixing in green. The more you push this archetype in that color, the less likely it will be to get ramp decks with more even color distributions.
2. Push fixing and ramp via artifacts and lands. Signets and Ravnica Karoos are probably the best for this. The new Keyrune cycle might also work if you slow things down and want some man-arocks. Vivids and Trilands are also good.
3. Add more non-green ramp targets like your suggested Knights that reward playing lots of colors. I might look into some spells and creature with domain and sunburst. The Resounding cycle might be an option too.
I might be misunderstanding cubing here (very new at this), but I'm not looking to transform my cube to allow for a non-green ramp deck. I think that having "1-card archetypes", or archetypes that become playable with the inclusion of one single card (Ex: Intangible Virtue, Favorable Winds,...), is a good thing to have in cubes. It allows for more decks to be buildable and helps with the replay-ability value of the cube. My hope is that Dragonsoul Knight will be such a card for 5c ramp. There is enough in the cube as is to support a decent ramp deck as is, but this card adds flexibility by giving people a reason to go 5-color.
And there's nothing special about non-green. Actually, if Dragonsoul Knight had a green counterpart, I'd much rather have that in here.
Ooh ooh! How about Emblazioned Golem?
It's my cube's mascot for a reason: Rewards 3+ color decks by being huge and is versatile enough to be played early with only 2 colors or late with whatever colors you've got.
My cube is limited to Modern, so Emblazoned Golem is out...I'd definitely include it if I were using older cards though!
About the golem, why not just run the much cooler looking Fusion Elemental?
I like the Knight over the Fusion Elemental b/c the Knight is much less likely to be a dead card.
Yeah I misunderstood what you were asking. I don't understand what you mean by the Knights having flexibility, since neither is good enough to play in a non-ramp deck, making them defacto 5-color cards instead of mono-color. Personally, I wouldn't want to burn a white and red slot on such cards.
As previously mentioned, Sunburst artifacts sound like a good fit for what you're looking for as well as they reward playing lots of colors and generally get better as you accrue more and different colors of mana. I like Opaline Bracers more than either of the Knights you suggested since you only need the right mana the first time you cast it instead of having to keep it up every turn for pumps. Giving a mana dork +4/+4 turns into a significant threat.
If you're looking for creatures that are fine on their own but fit well into ramp decks, I'd look at Level Up creatures. Most of the playable ones fit decently into nonramp decks, but have another angle of play in a ramp deck where you can Level them off a topdeck without much problem. There's definitely room in a Modern-only cube to play some that might not make the cut in a full peasant cube.
If you're not already playing it, I consider Wild Nacatl to be pretty flexible since it goes into G/W or G/R aggro but can be a decent early blocker in a Naya or 4+ color ramp deck.
Finally, the best way to get people to go 4-5 color is to just have lots of strong, splashable cards in each color that drafters want to fight over. You don't have to specifically add cards that reward the strategy.
I do that all the time. On the bright side, it has a track record of discovering brokenness sometimes. I don't mind the misses when I get useful hits.
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
Turn 1: Experiment One
Turn 2: Brushstrider
Turn 3: Flinthoof Boar w/ haste
...with zero Forests.
In three-color aggro decks, it works even better.
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
True, but the point is that it can be either one, which gets you out of jams that a basic land cannot. You could make the same argument about any dual land. Yes, you could replace it with a basic land, and if you draw perfectly, you don't need a dual land. Fun Fact: You don't always draw perfectly in Magic.
Also, with basic lands, you can never do this:
Turn 1: Elite Vanguard
Turn 2: Strangleroot Geist
Turn 3: Vampire Nighthawk
'''
This has all been a roundabout way of saying that I don't see decks that would like this land often.
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
Peasant cubes really need more help if they're going to have aggro decks that compete with midrange and control. If you're trying to play three color aggro with a bunch of Guildgates and Refuges, you're doing it wrong.
I also found it to be good in green aggro decks since you tend to want to play a non green one drop (if no mana elf) and then in to some heavy green 2 or 3 drop.
At 360 it might not be good enough only because it is not as versatile as many of the other lands. But any bigger cubes should totally run it especially alongside gemstone mine and city of brass
I just play gasp basic lands.
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
Nobody built decks that wanted it because those decks wouldn't work if they didn't draw Ziggurat.
If we get more mana-fixing for aggro decks in the future, then this card becomes a lot better because that kind of deck becomes much easier to assemble.
My Type 4 stack (Cube Tutor link)
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
Anyway, I'll be testing the Knight. If it works well I'll try out the paragon as well.
Best of luck. I do love me some 5c Honden control teehee
However, if you really want to push five-color ramp that doesn't have to rely on green, here are a few things I'd do:
1. Don't go overboard with ramp and fixing in green. The more you push this archetype in that color, the less likely it will be to get ramp decks with more even color distributions.
2. Push fixing and ramp via artifacts and lands. Signets and Ravnica Karoos are probably the best for this. The new Keyrune cycle might also work if you slow things down and want some man-arocks. Vivids and Trilands are also good.
3. Add more non-green ramp targets like your suggested Knights that reward playing lots of colors. I might look into some spells and creature with domain and sunburst. The Resounding cycle might be an option too.
Ooh ooh! How about Emblazioned Golem?
It's my cube's mascot for a reason: Rewards 3+ color decks by being huge and is versatile enough to be played early with only 2 colors or late with whatever colors you've got.
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/peasantsnowcube
-- Updated with Outlaws of Thunder Junction
The PioneWer Peasant CUbe
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/pionewer
-- Updated with Murders at Karlov Manor
That said, Fusion Elemental is pretty sweet.
My Type 4 stack (Cube Tutor link)
Thoughts?
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/peasantsnowcube
-- Updated with Outlaws of Thunder Junction
The PioneWer Peasant CUbe
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/pionewer
-- Updated with Murders at Karlov Manor
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
I might be misunderstanding cubing here (very new at this), but I'm not looking to transform my cube to allow for a non-green ramp deck. I think that having "1-card archetypes", or archetypes that become playable with the inclusion of one single card (Ex: Intangible Virtue, Favorable Winds,...), is a good thing to have in cubes. It allows for more decks to be buildable and helps with the replay-ability value of the cube. My hope is that Dragonsoul Knight will be such a card for 5c ramp. There is enough in the cube as is to support a decent ramp deck as is, but this card adds flexibility by giving people a reason to go 5-color.
And there's nothing special about non-green. Actually, if Dragonsoul Knight had a green counterpart, I'd much rather have that in here.
My cube is limited to Modern, so Emblazoned Golem is out...I'd definitely include it if I were using older cards though!
I like the Knight over the Fusion Elemental b/c the Knight is much less likely to be a dead card.
As previously mentioned, Sunburst artifacts sound like a good fit for what you're looking for as well as they reward playing lots of colors and generally get better as you accrue more and different colors of mana. I like Opaline Bracers more than either of the Knights you suggested since you only need the right mana the first time you cast it instead of having to keep it up every turn for pumps. Giving a mana dork +4/+4 turns into a significant threat.
If you're looking for creatures that are fine on their own but fit well into ramp decks, I'd look at Level Up creatures. Most of the playable ones fit decently into nonramp decks, but have another angle of play in a ramp deck where you can Level them off a topdeck without much problem. There's definitely room in a Modern-only cube to play some that might not make the cut in a full peasant cube.
If you're not already playing it, I consider Wild Nacatl to be pretty flexible since it goes into G/W or G/R aggro but can be a decent early blocker in a Naya or 4+ color ramp deck.
Finally, the best way to get people to go 4-5 color is to just have lots of strong, splashable cards in each color that drafters want to fight over. You don't have to specifically add cards that reward the strategy.