Vapor snag is worse than this card (pretty sure bouncing your own guy happens less than 1/10th of the time), but would you think it gets played in nonblack decks more than black decks? Unsummon is just baaaaaaaaaaaaarely playable. I mean, I do it in stock limited games and it's a fair 22nd-23rd card, but its not exactly making the cut all day. Vortex's upside is so motivating that I'd see it as a dimir card much like lingering souls is orzhov.
Did people try hypnotic grifter? I keep squinting at it and seeing a 2U haste 2/3 with etb scry 2 (or so) that has a mana sink for late game. But it just doesn't feel good in my hands in a draft pack
I cut back on removal as it has become so much more indiscriminate.
I have a modern Peasant cube so I don't have access to a lot of the typical Black controlling cards like Hymn to torach, the cheap reanimation spells or Feast of succession. So if I poke my head into other people's cubes it's not been as helpful as I would have liked.
If you feel as though you're in the sweet spot of removal (removal.dec doesn't exist, and people don't feel like they're hopeless in the face of a threat), then you probably don't want to touch it. +1 more piece won't break the camel's back, but that's the most delicate ratio to keep in order.
Mire triton just got cut from my cube yesterday, but I do like the card. I'm just not supporting graveyard decks anymore. But it's a solid role-player that isn't as specialized (read: limited) as a card like lone missionary.
Davriel has been really strong for me, but he's an aggressive card. Decks that are on the backfoot and don't want to die to his pinging need to attack him, giving the aggro deck a tiny extra window to get an extra attack in.
Whispers of emrakul looks like a bad magic card. Taking the average card out of their hand isn't worth mana (you're both down a card, but you didn't even average a good trade) and if it does hit their last land then you just created a non-game. Hence why a lot of us don't run hymn to tourach.
Wrench mind achieves the coveted 2-for-1 for 2 mana, so it's probably not too bad. But math and experience both show that double cost 2 drops are a rough proposition for our breed of magic, and it will end up not performing as well as it reads.
You'd need to be going deep on delve-like payoffs for corpse churn to be worth a deck slot. Small, indiscriminate mill really needs to be at a critical mass before it helps decks like reanimator.
Macabre waltz isn't a card I'd personally recommend but if your format is really slow then you can potentially get to a solid lategame with it, bringing back even just an etb 4 drop and an impactful body.
Cards in my outdated cube list that sound like they fit your description:
long time no see my friends! I had to change my email and Twitch weren’t helpful in recovering my account, so different name.
I pulled my cards out for the first time in a couple of years and played. Keen to restart but need to get myself back up to speed. (I’ve been listening to limited resources the whole time to keep knowledge up, but haven’t been thinking about my cube specifically or lurking here).
what have I missed in the past 3 years? What’s the footnotes of change over the past 3 years?
I thought it was quiet, then noticed previous post was from almost 2 weeks ago, guess this place got quiet. Good to see some old regulars still posting.
I thought it was quiet, then noticed previous post was from almost 2 weeks ago, guess this place got quiet. Good to see some old regulars still posting.
You came back right after the set-spoiler discussion died down, for a set with not a lot of action, and long before the next set is spoiled. If Dominaria Remastered has downshifts I'm sure activity will spike again near Christmas, and then for sure late Jan when the New New Phyrexia spoilers start.
It would also be quite a lot to try and summarize three years.
I suppose that the big thing is that thematic considerations in terms of aesthetic are becoming more prominent. There are a lot of powerful cards from sets like Kamigawa Neon Dynasty or the WH40K Commander packs which do not fit a traditional MtG aesthetic. It becomes a question of whether you are willing to include them, similar to grey border cards. Which is ironic, given how the newest unset also has eternal legal cards, including some that we could use.
Bacchus, if you're looking for useful info, Calibretto is planning to compile the 2022 average cube the week before Christmas. The annual thread generally invites some discussion of cards that have faded out of popularity vs ones that are on the rise or that people feel have been overlooked. As an example, here's the 2021 thread - it's mostly dead now, but the new one should kick things into gear.
Welcome back! If I had to summarize the last three years of CUbe (2020, 2021, and 2022), I would mention the following.
1) There are a LOT of Supplemental sets. Two Jumpstarts, two Commander Legends, Modern Horizons 2, Warhammer 40K, and Unfinity. I am the kind of weirdo who wants to play something from all of these sets, but every Cube owner has to decide if the power level and/or aesthetics match what they want.
2) There is a LOT of good fixing recently. From slam dunks like the CL2 Gates and Thriving lands all the way to Snow duals, Campuses and whatever the New Capenna lands are called. Also oddballs like Cryptic Spires or Temple of the Dragon Queen. My 512 card cube is playing 33 lands printed since 2020 and even the smallest Cubes will have at least the Gates and Thrivings.
3) There are a LOT of really versatile answers being printed. I am most excited about the artifact/enchantment answers like Rip Apart, but you might be happier to see Bushwhack or the myraid Channel or Cycling cards.
Welcome back around! Three years is a while to be away. You can certainly check out last year's average list to get an idea of what folks have been including in the time you've been away. This year's average list should be up in the next couple of weeks. I'm really psyched to see how it shakes out this year. We've gotten some real bangers in 2022.
It's good to have you back! I remember your Evaluate Everything project was one of my favorite things about this website back in 2019 so it's great to see you getting into the game again!
Minor side note is that you should be a little careful about Limited Resources, they have a long history of endorsing dodgy crypto stuff.
I was very excited to see [CARD]Spiritmonger/[CARD] downshifted in DMR. Have any of you made room for it or plan to? I run a slightly altered klug list and am planning to cut [CARD]Gloomshrieker/[CARD]
I was very excited to see [CARD]Spiritmonger/[CARD] downshifted in DMR. Have any of you made room for it or plan to? I run a slightly altered klug list and am planning to cut [CARD]Gloomshrieker/[CARD]
A handful of people discussed it in this thread. And the data from this thread indicates at least two people have already made the switch.
I was very excited to see [CARD]Spiritmonger/[CARD] downshifted in DMR. Have any of you made room for it or plan to? I run a slightly altered klug list and am planning to cut [CARD]Gloomshrieker/[CARD]
I initially switched to it because the initial body is very good as a resilient, growing threat. I think that I will switch back to Lotleth Troll because of its defensive applications, though. I just considered how handy it is as a defensive threat in the early game as opponents cannot really even attack into it with X/3s because of the threat of growing it and just regenerating after blocks.
If i can add another note for what has changed, over the last couple of years we've gotten a lot of modal cards that really smooth out the quality of games. Was the new zendikar something you've seen yet? Many of those DFC's are cards I'd highly recommend. There are also a lot more good cards with adventure, channel, and cycling which just add so much for testing the decision making of your players while making sure there is potential action on more turns.
If you could pick just one of Flickerwisp, Aerial Responder, and Rumor Gatherer, is it possible that Rumor gatherer is the defensible choice?
White has no other realistic access to card draw.
White has other blink effects to make up for the loss of flickerwisp.
Aerial responder is merely solid, but boring?
If you could pick just one of Flickerwisp, Aerial Responder, and Rumor Gatherer, is it possible that Rumor gatherer is the defensible choice?
White has no other realistic access to card draw.
White has other blink effects to make up for the loss of flickerwisp.
Aerial responder is merely solid, but boring?
IIRC many people (like me) exchanged Rumor Gatherer for Mentor of the Meek when it was shifted to uncommon shortly after Rumor Gatherer was new, so while it is a pretty good card Rumor Gatherer never had a chance to get played a lot I guess. Personally I still run both Aerial Responder and Flickerwisp since they're different cards that do different things. If I wanted another white card draw creature I would probably cut Aerial Responder since like you said, it's just a very solid creature.
Rumor Gatherer didn't even make the average list this year, probably because of what Phitt said with folks cutting it quickly once Mentor was downshifted. If I had to pick one, it'd be Flickerwisp. Not only is it blink support, but it's also a solid evasive beater. Even if you're not in blink, you can still get a ton of value from it by blinking a random ETB guy on your side or a token or blocker on your opponent's side.
I mean, Rumor Gatherer was not exactly an amazing card in Streets of New Capenna limited. The body was medicore and the card draw upside was difficult to obtain. It was also mega outclassed in the same set by Inspiring Overseer.
Cube is a better environment for hitting multiple creatures a turn thanks to the token makers, but that environment also suits Mentor of the Meek very well.
I would say the combination of those two are keeping Rumor Gatherer out of cubes.
EDIT: Combat Thresher also fits in the same spot as a card draw creature at 3-mana.
I've been on the fringes for long enough that I forgot about mentor of the meek. Despite the fact that the last time I played my cube my opponent paid 6 mana, for spectral procession and 3 cards. I lost that game.
Personally I still run both Aerial Responder and Flickerwisp since they're different cards that do different things.
My issue is not with them being in direct competition with one another for the "3 drop flyer slot", it's that I am trying to wean myself down to only one 1CC card per color at maximum.
My issue is not with them being in direct competition with one another for the "3 drop flyer slot", it's that I am trying to wean myself down to only one 1CC card per color at maximum.
Personally I still run both Aerial Responder and Flickerwisp since they're different cards that do different things.
My issue is not with them being in direct competition with one another for the "3 drop flyer slot", it's that I am trying to wean myself down to only one 1CC card per color at maximum.
I know, that's why I said what I said. If these were all 2W cards I'd probably play Rumor Gatherer as well, but since I try to limit cc cost cards in the 2-3 mana range as well I rather play cards that do different things than what is basically a weaker Mentor of the Meek. If I only wanted to run one of them I'd agree with Calibretto and play Flickerwisp.
Because CC or 1CC (and even 2CC) cards usually can't be played on curve with peasant cube mana bases unless you play a mono color deck. It's a bit of a trap if you have a three drop that can't be played before turn 4-5 on average.
Did people try hypnotic grifter? I keep squinting at it and seeing a 2U haste 2/3 with etb scry 2 (or so) that has a mana sink for late game. But it just doesn't feel good in my hands in a draft pack
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
I cut back on removal as it has become so much more indiscriminate.
I have a modern Peasant cube so I don't have access to a lot of the typical Black controlling cards like Hymn to torach, the cheap reanimation spells or Feast of succession. So if I poke my head into other people's cubes it's not been as helpful as I would have liked.
Thoughts.
Mire Triton
Davriel, Rogue Shadowmage
Whispers of Emrakul
Wrench Mind
Any of the 1 mana discard.
Corpse Churn
Macabre Waltz
Or should I just put removal back in?
List
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
Mire triton just got cut from my cube yesterday, but I do like the card. I'm just not supporting graveyard decks anymore. But it's a solid role-player that isn't as specialized (read: limited) as a card like lone missionary.
Davriel has been really strong for me, but he's an aggressive card. Decks that are on the backfoot and don't want to die to his pinging need to attack him, giving the aggro deck a tiny extra window to get an extra attack in.
Whispers of emrakul looks like a bad magic card. Taking the average card out of their hand isn't worth mana (you're both down a card, but you didn't even average a good trade) and if it does hit their last land then you just created a non-game. Hence why a lot of us don't run hymn to tourach.
Wrench mind achieves the coveted 2-for-1 for 2 mana, so it's probably not too bad. But math and experience both show that double cost 2 drops are a rough proposition for our breed of magic, and it will end up not performing as well as it reads.
1 mana discard spells (harsh scrutiny, inquisition of kozilek, or duress) are all perfectly reasonable.
You'd need to be going deep on delve-like payoffs for corpse churn to be worth a deck slot. Small, indiscriminate mill really needs to be at a critical mass before it helps decks like reanimator.
Macabre waltz isn't a card I'd personally recommend but if your format is really slow then you can potentially get to a solid lategame with it, bringing back even just an etb 4 drop and an impactful body.
Cards in my outdated cube list that sound like they fit your description:
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
Cuts it down to
Mire Triton or Harsh Scrutiny I'll have a think about it.
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
long time no see my friends! I had to change my email and Twitch weren’t helpful in recovering my account, so different name.
I pulled my cards out for the first time in a couple of years and played. Keen to restart but need to get myself back up to speed. (I’ve been listening to limited resources the whole time to keep knowledge up, but haven’t been thinking about my cube specifically or lurking here).
what have I missed in the past 3 years? What’s the footnotes of change over the past 3 years?
You came back right after the set-spoiler discussion died down, for a set with not a lot of action, and long before the next set is spoiled. If Dominaria Remastered has downshifts I'm sure activity will spike again near Christmas, and then for sure late Jan when the New New Phyrexia spoilers start.
I suppose that the big thing is that thematic considerations in terms of aesthetic are becoming more prominent. There are a lot of powerful cards from sets like Kamigawa Neon Dynasty or the WH40K Commander packs which do not fit a traditional MtG aesthetic. It becomes a question of whether you are willing to include them, similar to grey border cards. Which is ironic, given how the newest unset also has eternal legal cards, including some that we could use.
E: oh, and Cubetutor has shut down and we all use CubeCobra instead. It's basically better in every way except the draft bots are worse.
Draft it on Cubetutor here, and CubeCobra here.
Treasure Cruise did nothing wrong.
A LOT worse. We can only hope that someday they will be half as good as CubeTutor's.
2023 Average Peasant Cube|and Discussion
Because I have more decks than fit in a signature
Useful Resources:
MTGSalvation tags
EDHREC
ManabaseCrafter
1) There are a LOT of Supplemental sets. Two Jumpstarts, two Commander Legends, Modern Horizons 2, Warhammer 40K, and Unfinity. I am the kind of weirdo who wants to play something from all of these sets, but every Cube owner has to decide if the power level and/or aesthetics match what they want.
2) There is a LOT of good fixing recently. From slam dunks like the CL2 Gates and Thriving lands all the way to Snow duals, Campuses and whatever the New Capenna lands are called. Also oddballs like Cryptic Spires or Temple of the Dragon Queen. My 512 card cube is playing 33 lands printed since 2020 and even the smallest Cubes will have at least the Gates and Thrivings.
3) There are a LOT of really versatile answers being printed. I am most excited about the artifact/enchantment answers like Rip Apart, but you might be happier to see Bushwhack or the myraid Channel or Cycling cards.
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/peasantsnowcube
-- Updated with Outlaws of Thunder Junction
The PioneWer Peasant CUbe
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/pionewer
-- Updated with Murders at Karlov Manor
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
Follow me. I tweet.
Minor side note is that you should be a little careful about Limited Resources, they have a long history of endorsing dodgy crypto stuff.
2023 Average Peasant Cube|and Discussion
Because I have more decks than fit in a signature
Useful Resources:
MTGSalvation tags
EDHREC
ManabaseCrafter
I initially switched to it because the initial body is very good as a resilient, growing threat. I think that I will switch back to Lotleth Troll because of its defensive applications, though. I just considered how handy it is as a defensive threat in the early game as opponents cannot really even attack into it with X/3s because of the threat of growing it and just regenerating after blocks.
I think the progress has been great.
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
White has no other realistic access to card draw.
White has other blink effects to make up for the loss of flickerwisp.
Aerial responder is merely solid, but boring?
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
IIRC many people (like me) exchanged Rumor Gatherer for Mentor of the Meek when it was shifted to uncommon shortly after Rumor Gatherer was new, so while it is a pretty good card Rumor Gatherer never had a chance to get played a lot I guess. Personally I still run both Aerial Responder and Flickerwisp since they're different cards that do different things. If I wanted another white card draw creature I would probably cut Aerial Responder since like you said, it's just a very solid creature.
My Old School Battlebox
My Premodern Battlebox
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
Follow me. I tweet.
Cube is a better environment for hitting multiple creatures a turn thanks to the token makers, but that environment also suits Mentor of the Meek very well.
I would say the combination of those two are keeping Rumor Gatherer out of cubes.
EDIT: Combat Thresher also fits in the same spot as a card draw creature at 3-mana.
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/peasantsnowcube
-- Updated with Outlaws of Thunder Junction
The PioneWer Peasant CUbe
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/pionewer
-- Updated with Murders at Karlov Manor
Must be why I forgot
My issue is not with them being in direct competition with one another for the "3 drop flyer slot", it's that I am trying to wean myself down to only one 1CC card per color at maximum.
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
I know, that's why I said what I said. If these were all 2W cards I'd probably play Rumor Gatherer as well, but since I try to limit cc cost cards in the 2-3 mana range as well I rather play cards that do different things than what is basically a weaker Mentor of the Meek. If I only wanted to run one of them I'd agree with Calibretto and play Flickerwisp.
Because CC or 1CC (and even 2CC) cards usually can't be played on curve with peasant cube mana bases unless you play a mono color deck. It's a bit of a trap if you have a three drop that can't be played before turn 4-5 on average.
My Old School Battlebox
My Premodern Battlebox