MTG Salvation

Tri-lands are almost a given now, except for those who use rare duals that come into play untapped. There's only the one cycle of tri-lands though, and especially if you're over 400 cards or so, there aren't enough non-dual fixing lands, so many people end up running some.

Even if I went back to no-rare lands, I'm not getting caught dead runninh dual etbt lands

Quote from guitarspider »

Quote from _i0 »

I totally agree that the practical impact is very minimal, but we all still start from the point of at least TRYING to build a color-balanced cube.

Replacing Fire Covenant with Rakdos Cackler as a "Rakdos" card makes about as much sense as cutting your Omenspeaker when it's been underperforming and you really want to try out Sifter Wurm. Does it actually matter? Not really, but we still aren't making that swap.

I don't agree with that analogy, you're not just taking a card away from a color. The hybrid card is still accessible to both colors of the guild.

Just to elaborate on the point, by adding rakdos cackler you're adding a red card to boros, izzet and gruul, and adding a black card to dimir, golgari, and orzhov. But rakdos has the same number of cards that it did before, leaving it one short of the aforementioned guilds in total number of options.

In addition, the other 9 nonrakdos guilds will have, say, 3 gold cards all to themselves. Rakdos would have 2.

So you are in a very salient sense subtracting a card from rakdos.

(Oh, and BTE is a good choice for a borderline case as well. I run it as hybrid, but it makes sense as gruul since it's a rare case of being doubly good in its home guild)

If Gruul had worse guild cards, I'd classify BTE as a guild card in an instant for just those reasons. But because I don't want it to take up a guild slot, I count it as hybrid. There is some objective truth to balancing colors, but at the end of day I'm sure we just go with what feels good and justify "balance" afterwards. It's more subjective than we'll admit.

Quote from _i0 »

Migratory Route by far, but I do like the two flyers listed. Route is just very easily a top-ten of all gold cards at Peasant for me.

This made me think what I'd name as the top ten gold cards.

• Reflector Mage
  
• Migratory Route
  
• Baleful Strix
  
• Fire Covenant
  
• Bloodbraid Elf
  
• Behemoth Sledge
  
• Lingering Souls

All seem like obvious ones, but it seems less clear after that. Maybe Ribbons of Night, Trostani's Summoner, Baloth Null, Tyrgon Predator, Boros Charm, or Electrolyze are somewhere in there?

I guess it will be pretty different for people who cheat use online rarity downgrades.

I have been thinking of including Behemoth Sledge and Fire Covenant, but I am worried that:

a) They are too powerful, and will warp gameplay
b) They don't really push a cohesive theme within the color pair (when compared to cards like Lingering Souls or Baloth Null)

Any thoughts?

Even though sledge is harder to cast/tougher to find decks for, that's only due to the color cost, not for what it brings. If you ban Loxodon Warhammer, I could see banning Sledge as I think it's a better card once it hits the table.

Fire Covenant is good and life doesn't matter until it does, but I think it's less of an offender than Sledge. It can be devastating, but it can also be tough to cast without putting yourself in a precarious position. Sledge is pretty mindlessly good, whereas sometimes a Covenant casting can require planning out a few turns ahead to see if it's a good idea or not.

EDIT: That being said, I think Phitt brings up some great points, and Fire Covenant should be closely watched if included

Only had to play Sledge once to realize it was stupidly broken, so never even tried Warhammer. Also played with Covenant only once, it has more variance in that you can actually recover from it without packing a Naturalize, but it's the kind of card that will always end in a feel-bad (see Hymn).

I've removed both for power concerns. As above, once the Sledge hits the table, it just dominates the game unless it is removed immediately. The toughness boost makes it even more powerful than Loxodon Warhammer, as it makes it harder to at least buy time by trading and forcing them to spend 3 mana to re-equip.

I think I only played one game where I was on low enough life that Fire Covenant was not a good card in that situation. Sometimes spending 3-5 life to clear out 2 early aggro drops on turn 3 is enough to stabilise. And if you are the aggressor, you are almost guaranteed to be able to sweep away whatever they play that would get in the way of your game ending swing.

How viable/deep is the "spells matter" archetype? Is it strictly confined to Izzet? What are some common finishers for the "spells matter" deck?

I feel like it is primary Izzet but it can easily be grixis (splash black). Depending on the win cons UB can also work but that is a spells matter control deck instead of an aggro one.

Thermo-alchemist and the +3+0 when you cast a instant/sorcery creatures. Prowess aggro creatures + face burn full tempo decks is your classic izzet deck. It looks just like my standard deck early aggro to get them low, then you try to burn or use tricks to push through those last few points of damage.

Rise from the tides is the control spells win con or just archeomancer and blink or bounce to recast a spell over and over.

The deck is vunerable to both removal and life gain, so it is really hard to play and resonably difficult to draft (people fight you for the burn). I find people enjoy drafting and playing it even if it isn't successful in game... if that makes sense? people just like the playstyle.

I'd say if there is a third color it's white rather than black. There's a pretty sick Jeskai Tempo Control list for instance, with prowess creatures and white/red removal options plus counterspells. I'd call the grixis lists spell heavy control decks rather than "spells matter" decks, but maybe that's semantics.

Some important cards:

• Guttersnipe
  
• Young Pyromancer
  
• Thermo-Alchemist
  
• Weaver of Lightning
  

There's a number of good prowess creatures too, other than that cantrips and spells that generate tokens can help the archetype, as do flashback spells.

For a card to be "AB hybrid" in my book, it needs to be playable in an AX or BX deck. If a card meets these qualifications (eg. Kitchen Finks, totally fine in a GU deck or a WB deck) then I count it as 0.5 cards towards each of those colors.

The hybrid cards I include are:

• Curse of Chains
• Murderous Redcap
• Rakdos Cackler
• Burning-Tree Emissary
• Tattermunge Maniac
• Dryad Militant
• Kitchen Finks
• Cauldron Haze
• Snakeform

So my hybrid section in total takes up:

• 2 White slots
• 1 Blue slots
• 1.5 Black slots
• 2 Red slots
• 2.5 Green slots

Other hybrid cards go in my gold section, because I don't think they are playable without both colors. This includes Mistmeadow Witch, Torrent of Souls and Firespout. Meanwhile, Azorius Guildmage is in my White section because it sees play in WX decks (often getting a bonus from a blue-splashing tri-land) but never in UX decks (where X isn't White).

I also count Phyrexian cards as half a colored card and half a colorless card. Those include:

• Porcelain Legionnaire
• Gitaxian Probe
• Spined Thopter
• Tezzeret's Gambit
• Dismember
• Act of Aggression
• Mutagenic Growth
• Thundering Tanadon

With Hybrid and Phyrexian cards, I am using:

• 2.5 White slots
• 2.5 Blue slots
• 2 Black slots
• 2.5 Red slots
• 3.5 Green slots
• 4 Colorless slots

Subtle relevance, do you have any reason to treat porcelain legionnaire and spined thopter as anything but pure colorless or is it just for keeping things simple?

/

Really the reason why I'm in the thread is to mention that my topplegeist averaged over 5 damage each game it was drawn today, and wasnt ever played on turn one.

Yeah but that's only because you don't play Bolt :^)

If it would eat a bolt, then it's done it's job

(But no, I mean it tapped the blocker, and let in 2-6 damage, then leaked in a couple extra points. The biggest was when my 3/1 double striker was being walled by a first striker)

Having a cant block effect on a body that can get in for damage is just good for aggro.

Yeah, I'm super glad WOTC started printing a lot of aggressive creatures with etb/on-attack triggers that prevent blocks. It's hard to find room for Falter spells that do nothing else.

Does this mean Niblis of the Urn is viable?

Quote from Reason »

Does this mean Niblis of the Urn is viable?

They're two completely different cards. Not having to launch Topplegeist into combat for value carries a lot of weight, and a 1/1 flier for w is so much more palatable than a 1/1 flier for 1W.

I tried the niblis and it didn't work out. Topplegeist's etb means your opponent doesn't set up knowing that it's coming, and the flexibility of being played out on an often empty turn (turn 1) is part of the deal.

Although, given my recent success with the card, I am starting to wonder if it's just the smart play to weave it in on a later turn on average rather than play it turn 1. Can't be sure yet.

Topplegeist's big draw is clearly not the flying man, but the tempo gain, so, at least theoretically, playing it later on should be the default way of playing it, shouldn't it?

Quote from guitarspider »

Topplegeist's big draw is clearly not the flying man, but the tempo gain, so, at least theoretically, playing it later on should be the default way of playing it, shouldn't it?

That's probably match up dependent. I would say you're probably right some real percentage of the time, but there are also a number of situations where having the flying man and getting him active by t4-5 so you can play your 4 drop and still have topplegeist active (and getting 1-3 damage in by then) could be relevant. Topplegeist is a pretty complicated card in that regard, as sometimes what you're curving into means you'd rather topplegeist nothing so it's ready later vs making sure you get that ETB trigger. The real appeal of topplegeist is the delirium ability, in a number of match ups waiting for the 'gotcha' moment might be worse than just having the topplegeist ready to go.

Also using your mana efficiently is important too, which works both ways. Maybe it's better to play it t1 so you impact the board to any degree, maybe it's better t4 to play your 3 and your 1. Even though to me the real appeal is having Topplegeist in play the turn you get delirium active, there is also some appeal to playing two creature and tapping an opponent's vs just already having the flying man.

Getting delirium active is almost not even on the table.

Also, flying men on turn one in a game where you had no other one drops is probably good. It's just that, if you have a second one drop the effectiveness of whichever you dont play drops off, and when you topdeck flying men it's real bad. Topplegeist doesnt have those problems nearly as much

Yeah, I wasn't expecting to get to delirium in the kind of deck that wants to run this.

Also I didn't say I'd never play it turn one, of course it depends on the deck, the matchup, etc, just that I'd expect to play this later in the game more often than early on. At one mana it's fairly easy to play it alongside another card too.

Sure you don't expect it early, but it's not impossible and when you set yourself up to reach ceilings and then hit them you'll win more often than not. Even if you're not hitting it on t4-5 it's better to have gotten all that damage through from playing him as a 1 and then getting it active when you need to make that last alpha/lethal attack.

Topplegeist is great because in my cube white doesn't usually get evasion, and a flying 1/1 on turn 1 can take you farther than you might think because usually white packs equipment or anthems. If the geist lands late game, you get a falter that will break board stalls. Delirium is flavor text on this card.

Niblis of the Urn is less impressive body-wise, but it's not too much of a hurdle to get it to proc every turn. Topplegeist is objectively the better card, but a turn 2 Niblis against a non-blue deck is still a decent play.

On a random sidenote, one of my drafters saw A Tribe Called Quest live and called them the Gruul Aggro of music. I gotta agree with him there.