I had it in a long time ago, but ultimately cut it because it was only really functional in aggro decks. Feels pretty awful next to Zealous Persecution, but since you aren't running that it might be worth a look.
I don't understand how Marsh Casualties is only functional in Aggro -- doesn't control want to wipe away X/1s on T2, or X/2s on T5?
ZP is definitely better overall, but the kicker adds a ton of versatility, and I can think of a lot of black decks that wouldn't really care about the +1/+1 part of it.
Is this deck I just drafted as crazy as I think it is, or is it all just in my head? Since the meta has been favouring control decks, I would really like to know whether an aggro deck like this had a chance to win a draft.
I'd probably run calciderm in place of behemoth sledge and drop all of the CITP tapped lands....you're running a ton of one drops, and tap-lands really piss in your cheerios. I'd also drop a 2/1 vanilla for lashknife barrier as it keeps your tiny bros more relevant longer.
A chance? Anything with skullclamp and creatures has a chance.
I don't understand how Marsh Casualties is only functional in Aggro -- doesn't control want to wipe away X/1s on T2, or X/2s on T5?
ZP is definitely better overall, but the kicker adds a ton of versatility, and I can think of a lot of black decks that wouldn't really care about the +1/+1 part of it.
It's at its best in creature vs creature matchups. It's not very good in control for the same reason that Shrivel and Rising Miasma aren't that good: too slow, too unreliable at board clearing. Marsh Casualties really shines when you can cast it before damage to clear 1+ thing and force through damage, and when you cast it after damage trading your whole board up. Sorcery speed makes the card useless while blocking (instant speed is what makes Zealous Persecution insane). The kicker is just not worth it if you are using it as an Infest. It's good in aggressive decks because aggressive decks care about pushing through damage and actually give you the opportunities to take advantage of Marsh Casualties by attacking every turn. How much triple ZEN did you draft? The card was a high pick due to the aggressive nature of the format, and the way it played in ZEN should give you an idea of how it will play out for us.
I'll chime in for the effectiveness of Pristine Talisman too. It's a great card that really plays well.
There are many other mana rocks that I would cut before it just because I like the effect too much.
I didn't play ZEN at all -- I started playing in like 94, but skipped ~15 years from Urza's to Innistrad.
Isn't the kicked version a vague approximation of Shower of Coals (without Threshold, obviously)? -2/-2 kills something like ~150 cards in my cube, and since it's one-sided, Control decks will usually be happy to keep around something like a Pinger, Tapper, Looter, mana dork, etc. I was considering Dakmor Plague and obviously getting up to three damage is important, but so is getting a one-sided effect, and one with extra versatility at two mana so it can nab tokens or small creatures.
I didn't play ZEN at all -- I started playing in like 94, but skipped ~15 years from Urza's to Innistrad.
Isn't the kicked version a vague approximation of Shower of Coals (without Threshold, obviously)? -2/-2 kills something like ~150 cards in my cube, and since it's one-sided, Control decks will usually be happy to keep around something like a Pinger, Tapper, Looter, mana dork, etc. I was considering Dakmor Plague and obviously getting up to three damage is important, but so is getting a one-sided effect, and one with extra versatility at two mana so it can nab tokens or small creatures.
Oh ok. Well in triple ZEN people would usually get in damage pretty aggressively, and then on turn five while they were either roughly ahead or at board parity it would be like a black Overrun that would just kill a bunch of creatures and get in for a ton of damage. In triple ZEN there were very few decent creatures with more than 2 toughness, so that helped as well. Shower of Coals is a lot worse than Cone of Flame and Incremental Blight when you don't have threshhold. I think Marsh Casualties is a really strong card (and it does occasionally plague wind), but there are much better options for decks with low creature count / minimal board presence. Since you run a more traditional black section I would definitely recommend testing it. Just be aware that it will probably do most of its work in attacking decks, not blocking decks.
I'd agree with dropping sledge and the etbt lands, but I'd rather drop the hammer or one of the equipments for lashknife barrier. That deckk really could run into a drought of bodies with all the equipment and lashknife barrier.
I have a few questions about your suggestions (@teh_spy)?
is jeskai barricade not good in the blink archetype?
isnt doomed traveller good in the bw token deck?
is hedron crab not good for self mill if you want stuff in your graveyard?
is goblin fireslinger just too slow?
why is stingscourger bad?
isnt scouring sands like a one sided almost board wipe if they have small guys?
Topan Freeblade - Bears are just bad at our power level, although some of us are reporting decent results with freeblade I think it nearly unplayable
Swift Justice - This is a lot worse than Moment of Heroism. Not giving toughness is really bad sometimes.
Bonds of Faith - Why not just run Pacifism?
topan freeblade- seemed really good when I played it and i like that it uses +1 counters
swift justice- why does it need toughness if it gives first strike?
bonds of faith- just seemed like a more interesting pacifism since it gives 2 options (plus theres a lot of white humans)
Young Wolf - Might be fine, but way worse than a mana elf would be
Tuskguard Captain - Really bad
Hunger of the Howlpack - Bad trick
Hermit Druid - There’s no payoff or support for this card in your list
Satyr Wayfinder - See hermit druid
Hooting Mandrills - Worse than Nemesis of Mortals in most conceivable ways
Commune with the Gods - See Hermit Druid
Gather the Pack - ^
Wreath of Geists - This card is bad. If you insist, Boneyard Wurm is better.
Grisly Salvage - See Hermit Druid - no payoff
Nyx Weaver - Slow card with mediocre stats. Meh.
the first three were in because I was trying to support +1 counters (maybe with some proliferate)
I agree about the other cards not having much payoff, but i was hoping to make a green black graveyard strategy that compliments the green black reanimator. do you know what cards I could add to make that work?
Infiltration Lens - Awful unplayable card
Paliano, the High City - Huh?
infiltration lens- is one of my favorite cards and works to me like a fair skullclamp
paliano is there because sometimes I add conspiracy cards like cogwork librarian and lore seeker
Patron of the Valiant - You aren’t really supporting this with creatures that have counters, Serra Angel might be better.
Great Teacher’s Decree - I don’t see ton of tokens support to make this crazy good.
Intangible Virtue - ^
I was trying to support the +counters theme, and I might try again but im not completely sure what cards are good in that strategy
great teachers decree/intangible virtue- I actually did have a bunch of token makers, but i might have cut them, ill probably add more
again, thanks for all the suggestions, ill take a look at the list you suggested to add and see if i have andy of those cards, and try to test them out (some are already in the list though i think)
is jeskai barricade not good in the blink archetype?
I tried supporting blink with cards like this and I don't think it's worth it. The tempo loss of bouncing a guy and having to recast it usually is not offset by whatever ETB effect you're re-using. You also lose value by including an 0/4 wall in your deck which would typically be better as another card. Especially in the case of Barricade, taking a tempo loss for potential value is really only worth it in grindy matchups where the 0/4 wall is a blank by itself.
isnt doomed traveller good in the bw token deck?
I still stubbornly play traveller but one power functionally kills very little in the cube (it won't kill anything ever unless you're matching up against aggro). At that point he's just a 1/1 flying token for one mana, which is mediocre (you wouldn't usually be playing a 1/1 flyer for one if it wasn't part of an archetype). He's not terrible, but he looks like more value that he actually provides.
why is stingscourger bad?
Unless you really want to pay six mana for a 2/2 he's a sorcery-speed Unsummon.
topan freeblade- seemed really good when I played it and i like that it uses +1 counters
Did you play it in Origins draft? 'cuz that's a whole different world. It's hard for a 2/2 to attack profitably.
bonds of faith- just seemed like a more interesting pacifism since it gives 2 options (plus theres a lot of white humans)
While it is more interesting, I think that +2/+2 is almost always going to be worse than removal. Even having the option to buff might be a downside because it's kind of a trap that gets your players two-for-one'd. Auras need to be better than that to be played.
Hedron Crab - Supporting mill is pretty unrecommended. Something like Jace’s Phantasm is going to be better in the matches where this is good.
I wasn't really trying to support mill, I was thinking more that it might help for reanimator and it works as a blocker to start
Works as a chump =/= works as a blocker
Self mill doesn't support reanimator, not really. Reanimator doesn't want to mill randomly (the chance of milling a target is low, and pretty equal to milling the reanimate spell you need). It needs loots and discard outlets instead.
The only way I would justify Hedron Crab is U/G Worm Harvest.
great teachers decree/intangible virtue- I actually did have a bunch of token makers, but i might have cut them, ill probably add more
Add more but still cut teacher's decree. My list isn't up to date yet but I just cut it as well. One-shot effects aren't that good. They're relevant for exactly one turn - when you're trying to win. Being a blank in most other situations isn't good. Rebound also isn't good because whenever you alpha you'll inevitably lose guys.
To the whole +1/+1 counter thing...
Personally, I don't think there's enough good cards that benefit from having guys with counters on them. There's the outlast lords (and outlast is pretty bad in anything but the slowest environment) and the angel. I don't know of much else. And without that, there's not really much point to just having a bunch of dudes with counters on them. There's no internal synergy there.
Things that jump out to me from looking at the list: Akrasan Squire - I don't really like exalted. They're creatures that you don't intend to attack with and most don't block well. Sigiled Paladin - The same. His attacking and blocking sides are better, but you can't count on being able to play a CC drop on turn two, and he doesn't bring enough to the table to account for his mana cost. Compare Consul's Lieutennant - just as hard to cast, but rewards you by being one of the most insane twos you get.
I'm fine with including big red cards to support R/G midrange but the two big red creatures you have look like aggro cards and I don't think any aggro deck wants a six drop. The giant compares really badly to green's six-drops, for example. If you want to give red a fatty, I'd pick something more interesting. Shockmaw Dragon? Hearthcage Giant? Boldwyr Intimidator? They kind of all feel bad, but I don't know.
Volt Charge can come out of red. If you do end up doing +1 counters, keep it centralized in a couple colors - probably G/W. I don't think the +1 counter deck would splash red just for this.
I know green threes suck but you need to play more than one. Wolfir Avenger, Trusted Forcemage, and Crocanura aren't terrible. Pharika's Disciple - Deathtouch on a four-drop is just weird. The only things for it to trade up to at that point are five- and six-drops and there's not a ton of those (and in blue and white, most of them have evasion). A 2/3 for four is also really hard to renown. Deathtouch seems like it would make it harder to block, but a 3/1 or 3/2 for two mana can kill it!
I also believe Acidic Slime should be Conclave Naturalists. Again, deathtouch on a high-mana card is kind of counterproductive. Green fives should be able to attack for real damage!
Bull Cerodon and Swift Warkite are more examples of aggro cards that aggro decks will never want to cast. When I'm building Boros, do I want to waste two card slots on Cerodon and an extra land or on two threats?
Balanced guild sections will make you feel fuzzy inside.
I agree with mostly everything Darcykun said. Acidic Slime is great, and I think should stay in. Gets rid of Maze o - oh. You're not running that card. Well it gets rid of Faerie Conclave, Oblivion Ring's and other assorted cards.
Swift Warkiteis pretty awesome, but yea, aggro decks won't often get that onto the field successfully. Maybe a control deck can use it to bring back that ... Phyrexian Rager..? I dunno. Yea it's an awesome designed card, but costs 2 too much. Woulda been an awesome 3/2 flier or something with the same affect.
Efreet is amazing, easily the best of the three....old man is also very good and steals over a third of my cube...if he lives. Juzam is good as well, but doesn't always make the cut in a black deck...gurmag angler is better, but it's good enough to include and there's something special about having it circulating in your packs.
Well, Serendib Efreet is an obviously good card, as mentioned.
Juzam Djinn is probably not worth the monetary investment for those who do not already have him but I really like having the card in the CU/be because the body is very much relevant. Outside of green's biggest baddies and Eldrazi, you hardly get bigger than that in Peasant and Juzam Djinn comes online quite a few turns in advance. The fact it costs relatively little to play is also beneficial to decks which want to leave mana open.
Old Man of the Sea us a personal favourite and often takes over games. Even without any form of support (although plenty is available), the Old Man simply represents so much value if the opponent plays any small creatures at all.
Phyrexian Rager..? I dunno. Yea it's an awesome designed card, but costs 2 too much. Woulda been an awesome 3/2 flier or something with the same affect.
Was this a mistype? Rager isn't in my cube anymore, but I'd agree with some other comments that it is playable, but doesn't really fill a specific role and feels a bit 'filler'. But if that was even 1 mana cheaper, I would snap that into just about every black deck I played. If it was 2 cheaper, that would be insane.
Hello all. This is my cube and here is a list of cards I'm considering adding. I want to add 10 to each color and colorless. I want to add 2 to each multicolor and land. Does anyone have suggestions for cuts and against certain cards being put in? I'm trying to have a counters theme in RW and a couple of token combos amongst Abzan colors. RU is Oops Mostly Spells, BR is aggro, GR is landfall and small small Shaman tribal, Amongst Esper colors is control, GU is about control as well. Thanks for any and all help.
Efreet is indeed very good. Djinn is very solid but not worth the investment, Kezzerdrix is almost at the same powerlevel. Old Man is one of my favorite cards. Instant speed Control Magics are very strong and make for interesting games.
Hey fruitdilla, as you can see even amongst ourselves we disagree quite frequently regarding certain cards. I tell you to put something in, someone else tells you to take it out. Vice versa.
topan freeblade- seemed really good when I played it and i like that it uses +1 counters
swift justice- why does it need toughness if it gives first strike?
bonds of faith- just seemed like a more interesting pacifism since it gives 2 options (plus theres a lot of white humans)
Someone else addressed this, but a 2/2 Vigilance is pretty bad for C/Ube power level. Not giving toughness is a big deal because you want your combat tricks to help stop removal in addition to winning combat. Bonds of Faith is fine. Hedron Crab is bad in reanimator for reasons already mentioned, 2 toughness is not enough to be a relevant blocker with any reliability, and you don't have any other graveyard payoff like Stitched Drake or Worm Harvest. Thunder Brute is bad in aggressive decks because it costs 6 mana, and it's bad in control decks because the it's just a 5/5 trampler for 6. Death by Dragons would be better most of the time. Worm Harvest, Gnaw to the Bone, Spider Spawning. Those are the best payoff cards for the graveyard archetype, but they aren't all that successful at our power level. Infiltration Lens is pretty bad. Paliano seems odd, you can get your fixing just fine without it. That deck you showed looks pretty awesome, but I think that without any rogues Oona's Blackguard is too parasitic.
Was this a mistype? Rager isn't in my cube anymore, but I'd agree with some other comments that it is playable, but doesn't really fill a specific role and feels a bit 'filler'. But if that was even 1 mana cheaper, I would snap that into just about every black deck I played. If it was 2 cheaper, that would be insane.
Was this a mistype? Rager isn't in my cube anymore, but I'd agree with some other comments that it is playable, but doesn't really fill a specific role and feels a bit 'filler'. But if that was even 1 mana cheaper, I would snap that into just about every black deck I played. If it was 2 cheaper, that would be insane.
I don't have Daze in my 400 list and I support blue tempo. Am I missing something? The card is strong but I felt that it wasn't worth the hefty downside at peasant level.
Edit: A brief scouring of the regulars' cubes shows there's a split over whether Daze is worth it or not. I didn't check to see how tempo-oriented everyone's blue sections are though.
I don't understand how Marsh Casualties is only functional in Aggro -- doesn't control want to wipe away X/1s on T2, or X/2s on T5?
ZP is definitely better overall, but the kicker adds a ton of versatility, and I can think of a lot of black decks that wouldn't really care about the +1/+1 part of it.
A chance? Anything with skullclamp and creatures has a chance.
There are many other mana rocks that I would cut before it just because I like the effect too much.
[Developing] 430+ Peasant Cube Thread --- [and on Cube Cobra]
Isn't the kicked version a vague approximation of Shower of Coals (without Threshold, obviously)? -2/-2 kills something like ~150 cards in my cube, and since it's one-sided, Control decks will usually be happy to keep around something like a Pinger, Tapper, Looter, mana dork, etc. I was considering Dakmor Plague and obviously getting up to three damage is important, but so is getting a one-sided effect, and one with extra versatility at two mana so it can nab tokens or small creatures.
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
is jeskai barricade not good in the blink archetype?
isnt doomed traveller good in the bw token deck?
is hedron crab not good for self mill if you want stuff in your graveyard?
is goblin fireslinger just too slow?
why is stingscourger bad?
isnt scouring sands like a one sided almost board wipe if they have small guys?
-thanks for the feedback
topan freeblade- seemed really good when I played it and i like that it uses +1 counters
swift justice- why does it need toughness if it gives first strike?
bonds of faith- just seemed like a more interesting pacifism since it gives 2 options (plus theres a lot of white humans)
I wasn't really trying to support mill, I was thinking more that it might help for reanimator and it works as a blocker to start
why is it so bad, it seems pretty good since it has trample
the first three were in because I was trying to support +1 counters (maybe with some proliferate)
I agree about the other cards not having much payoff, but i was hoping to make a green black graveyard strategy that compliments the green black reanimator. do you know what cards I could add to make that work?
infiltration lens- is one of my favorite cards and works to me like a fair skullclamp
paliano is there because sometimes I add conspiracy cards like cogwork librarian and lore seeker
I was trying to support the +counters theme, and I might try again but im not completely sure what cards are good in that strategy
great teachers decree/intangible virtue- I actually did have a bunch of token makers, but i might have cut them, ill probably add more
I was using oona's blackguard for the +1 counter effect, much like the tuskguard captain
here's a version of the +1 deck in my cube http://www.cubetutor.com/cubedeck/401361
again, thanks for all the suggestions, ill take a look at the list you suggested to add and see if i have andy of those cards, and try to test them out (some are already in the list though i think)
I tried supporting blink with cards like this and I don't think it's worth it. The tempo loss of bouncing a guy and having to recast it usually is not offset by whatever ETB effect you're re-using. You also lose value by including an 0/4 wall in your deck which would typically be better as another card. Especially in the case of Barricade, taking a tempo loss for potential value is really only worth it in grindy matchups where the 0/4 wall is a blank by itself.
I still stubbornly play traveller but one power functionally kills very little in the cube (it won't kill anything ever unless you're matching up against aggro). At that point he's just a 1/1 flying token for one mana, which is mediocre (you wouldn't usually be playing a 1/1 flyer for one if it wasn't part of an archetype). He's not terrible, but he looks like more value that he actually provides.
Unless you really want to pay six mana for a 2/2 he's a sorcery-speed Unsummon.
Did you play it in Origins draft? 'cuz that's a whole different world. It's hard for a 2/2 to attack profitably.
While it is more interesting, I think that +2/+2 is almost always going to be worse than removal. Even having the option to buff might be a downside because it's kind of a trap that gets your players two-for-one'd. Auras need to be better than that to be played.
Works as a chump =/= works as a blocker
Self mill doesn't support reanimator, not really. Reanimator doesn't want to mill randomly (the chance of milling a target is low, and pretty equal to milling the reanimate spell you need). It needs loots and discard outlets instead.
The only way I would justify Hedron Crab is U/G Worm Harvest.
Add more but still cut teacher's decree. My list isn't up to date yet but I just cut it as well. One-shot effects aren't that good. They're relevant for exactly one turn - when you're trying to win. Being a blank in most other situations isn't good. Rebound also isn't good because whenever you alpha you'll inevitably lose guys.
To the whole +1/+1 counter thing...
Personally, I don't think there's enough good cards that benefit from having guys with counters on them. There's the outlast lords (and outlast is pretty bad in anything but the slowest environment) and the angel. I don't know of much else. And without that, there's not really much point to just having a bunch of dudes with counters on them. There's no internal synergy there.
Things that jump out to me from looking at the list:
Akrasan Squire - I don't really like exalted. They're creatures that you don't intend to attack with and most don't block well.
Sigiled Paladin - The same. His attacking and blocking sides are better, but you can't count on being able to play a CC drop on turn two, and he doesn't bring enough to the table to account for his mana cost. Compare Consul's Lieutennant - just as hard to cast, but rewards you by being one of the most insane twos you get.
I'd suggest adding Midnight Haunting and Spectral Procession first if you want tokens.
Air Elemental looks better as Errant Ephemeron
I'm fine with including big red cards to support R/G midrange but the two big red creatures you have look like aggro cards and I don't think any aggro deck wants a six drop. The giant compares really badly to green's six-drops, for example. If you want to give red a fatty, I'd pick something more interesting. Shockmaw Dragon? Hearthcage Giant? Boldwyr Intimidator? They kind of all feel bad, but I don't know.
Volt Charge can come out of red. If you do end up doing +1 counters, keep it centralized in a couple colors - probably G/W. I don't think the +1 counter deck would splash red just for this.
I know green threes suck but you need to play more than one. Wolfir Avenger, Trusted Forcemage, and Crocanura aren't terrible.
Pharika's Disciple - Deathtouch on a four-drop is just weird. The only things for it to trade up to at that point are five- and six-drops and there's not a ton of those (and in blue and white, most of them have evasion). A 2/3 for four is also really hard to renown. Deathtouch seems like it would make it harder to block, but a 3/1 or 3/2 for two mana can kill it!
I also believe Acidic Slime should be Conclave Naturalists. Again, deathtouch on a high-mana card is kind of counterproductive. Green fives should be able to attack for real damage!
I don't like Gather the Pack very much. I think Commune with the Gods will typically be better as spell mastery basically never happens.
I'd be playing Ribbons of Night over Parasitic Strix.
Golgari doesn't need Putrefy.
Bull Cerodon and Swift Warkite are more examples of aggro cards that aggro decks will never want to cast. When I'm building Boros, do I want to waste two card slots on Cerodon and an extra land or on two threats?
Balanced guild sections will make you feel fuzzy inside.
Draft my Peasant Cube.
Swift Warkite is pretty awesome, but yea, aggro decks won't often get that onto the field successfully. Maybe a control deck can use it to bring back that ... Phyrexian Rager..? I dunno. Yea it's an awesome designed card, but costs 2 too much. Woulda been an awesome 3/2 flier or something with the same affect.
--
For those (very few) who run Juzám Djinn, Old Man of the Sea, and/or Serendib Efreet, how do they perform? Are they worth?
I can't see Serendib Efreet not being good, since he's just a better version of Fettergeist.
I don't really know what to think of Old Man of the Sea or Juzám Djinn though.
Juzam Djinn is probably not worth the monetary investment for those who do not already have him but I really like having the card in the CU/be because the body is very much relevant. Outside of green's biggest baddies and Eldrazi, you hardly get bigger than that in Peasant and Juzam Djinn comes online quite a few turns in advance. The fact it costs relatively little to play is also beneficial to decks which want to leave mana open.
Old Man of the Sea us a personal favourite and often takes over games. Even without any form of support (although plenty is available), the Old Man simply represents so much value if the opponent plays any small creatures at all.
Was this a mistype? Rager isn't in my cube anymore, but I'd agree with some other comments that it is playable, but doesn't really fill a specific role and feels a bit 'filler'. But if that was even 1 mana cheaper, I would snap that into just about every black deck I played. If it was 2 cheaper, that would be insane.
My C/Ube on Cube Cobra
Probably not good enough, but easily one of my favorite old school cards.
My Peasant Cube thread !!! (380 cards)
Draft my Peasant Cube on Cube Cobra !!!
Please let us know if it works out.
What the sweet hell.
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
Edit: A brief scouring of the regulars' cubes shows there's a split over whether Daze is worth it or not. I didn't check to see how tempo-oriented everyone's blue sections are though.
Modern
Value Town
Amulet Titan
Legacy
4C Loam
My Peasant Cube
http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/11667