whoops meant 5+ a game not a turn. I thought the card was trash too, but my friend pestered me enough that I actually tried it and I was very surprised at how good it was.
What are people's thoughts on Sparksmith? I'm not suggesting Goblin Tribal but it's not uncommon for my red decks to have 3-4 goblins on the board. Spark Smith into Hordeling Outburst seems like a fun time.
I would consider it... Were it not for the fact that the amount of damage it shoots to your own face also scales with the number of goblins. That damage can rack up really fast and you had better be winning at that point. The fact that it can never shoot the opponent to the face also reduces its desirability.
I don't think it is bad, but I prefer Fireslinger (which I don't play either). I guess it depends on how large your cube is and how much goblins you play. I only have 8 so I don't think Sparksmith is good enough. If you can make decks which reliably have at least one other goblin in play it is a good card.
I would consider it... Were it not for the fact that the amount of damage it shoots to your own face also scales with the number of goblins. That damage can rack up really fast and you had better be winning at that point. The fact that it can never shoot the opponent to the face also reduces its desirability.
I played a Pauper game with my son and ended up doing 12 damage over three turns with this dude. I might have to rethink running this in a Goblin tribal deck...
I've got some feedback on some Origins cards; I hosted a 5-person draft over the weekend and a bunch of the new cards made appearances.
Citadel Castellan was drafted in a really sweet WG +1/+1 counters deck. It was only ever drawn once, at a point when the guy playing it was too far behind to come back, but he's very enthusiastic about the card and told me that if he hadn't been on the ropes then Castellan would have been great.
I drafted Bounding Krasis myself in a UG deck splashing black for Murderous Cut and Possessed Skaab, and then never drew Krasis. But if I had, it would have been very good on the defense, because my opponent had:
Sentinel of the Eternal Watch, which is just as insane in cube as it is in ORIx3 booster draft. This lady is no joke. I had (more than) lethal on the board, and tapping down my biggest attacker every turn not only saved my opponent from dying, but actually turned around an otherwise unwinnable game and sealed the deal for my opponent.
Goblin Glory Chaser is a predictably great turn 1 play. The menace clause actually did come into play at one point, interestingly. The blocking mind games can actually lead to some blowouts - when you look at a 1-drop and go "wait, I have to double block it? It's just 2 damage. Whatever, I'll swing with everything since there's no point in holding back 2 of my big creatures to put in front of a 1-drop." and then when you're tapped out: pump, pump, pump.
I managed to land Jhessian Thief several times, but never got to attack with her or trigger prowess. Everyone knew how powerful she is, and killed/bounced/exiled her accordingly.
Patron of the Valiant made an appearance in the first place deck, which was WB. I don't think the guy who drafted it had anything beyond just a couple of cards that synergized with Patron's ETB trigger, so he was probably just running it (at worst) as a 4/4 flier for 3WW. I expect the card will perform even better in its home deck.
Possessed Skaab is very nice. I used it to bring back and recast Murderous Cut. He's definitely Eternal Witness #2, and in more appropriate colors, too.
Rhox Maulers are exceptional. I cast and resolved the card only once, and won the game as a result. The trample is relevant
Whirler Rogue was great. I don't have any specific thoughts on this one that you haven't already heard before. The card is very strong: 3 bodies for 4 mana - 2 of which fly - plus the ability to make something unblockable. No surprises here; I think this'll be a c/ube staple for a long time.
Shambling Ghoul is boring but viable. The winning WB deck, which was more midrange-y than aggressive, used it to gum up the ground in early turns while he waited for mana to cast his big dudes.
Undercity Troll is another strong card which holds no surprises. Renown is easy to turn on here, and the Troll is hard to get rid of. Cast it turn 2, and leave mana open on turn 3 when you attack with it. If they try to use removal, regenerate it. If they don't then your 2/2 becomes a 3/3 and you get to cast something else during post-combat main.
I think those are all the Origins cards that showed up. The +1/+1 counters theme in WG went off swimmingly as well. I watched a turn 2 Ainok Bond-Kin get followed up with a turn 3 Prey Upon targetting the opponent's 3/3, and then while Prey Upon was on the stack, Test of Faith on the Bond-Kin. It was deliciously brutal.
Edit: Something new that also went into effect for this draft was my cube going from 1 up to 7 Evolving Wilds. All of my drafters seemed happy with this. Singleton has always been a soft rule for my cube. Deciding to break that was tough, but I think it'll be good in the long run. Leelue's suggestion from a year or two back was the inspiration for this change.
My 360 Peasant+ Cube!. Modern borders where possible, usually with the newest (or "best") art, and always the most readable card text. I also run all 10 painlands. My playgroup is super casual, as we have a fair number of newer or less experienced players. Typically we draft with 4 to 6 people, using 5 packs of 9.
I still think that having as much unrestricted fixing as you're comfortable having is the way to go. And in drafting, you can't just "expect" these to celebrate back to you, making it harder and thus more compelling.
Also rhox maulers has grown on me slightly with time, since it does actually demand an immediate 1 for 1, even in the form of a risky trade (unless your opponent has a larger creature. That's be one he'll of a bluff attack though)
Same here, I wasn't initially sold on Rhox Maulers either. But having gone up against it multiple times at FNM booster drafts, it's really scary. Trample makes it really easy to turn on renown, at which point the 6/6 body + trample effectively means you have to answer it that turn or lose, moreso if your opponent is holding a pump spell.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My 360 Peasant+ Cube!. Modern borders where possible, usually with the newest (or "best") art, and always the most readable card text. I also run all 10 painlands. My playgroup is super casual, as we have a fair number of newer or less experienced players. Typically we draft with 4 to 6 people, using 5 packs of 9.
needless to say if the experiment doesn't work, my next step is to try and go the "Fast Fatty" route with Generator Servant and Fires and a few different choices for my 4 and 5 drop green creature sections.
Something new that also went into effect for this draft was my cube going from 1 up to 7 Evolving Wilds. All of my drafters seemed happy with this. Singleton has always been a soft rule for my cube. Deciding to break that was tough, but I think it'll be good in the long run. Leelue's suggestion from a year or two back was the inspiration for this change.
I still think that having as much unrestricted fixing as you're comfortable having is the way to go. And in drafting, you can't just "expect" these to celebrate back to you, making it harder and thus more compelling.
This drives me crazy! Given the KTK lands, the trilands, the guildgates, the bouncelands, the vivids, and the abundance of artifact fixers, why do people feel the need to do stuff like run duplicates or shocks and fetches.
I mean there's nothing wrong with having a cube with shocks and fetches in it, but if a playgroup actually can't deal with having limited/peasant level manafixing, then maybe they shouldn't be playing with a "peasant" cube.
Wizards has done a good job of dialing back power creep in limited over the last couple of years, but cubes get worse and worse by the set. There should be a point where we consciously limit power level, and staying within our rarity for fixing seems like an easy start. The fact that we have upwards of 60 playable color fixing lands makes complaints about mana fixing so frustrating to me. The fact that blue and green don't even need any help with fixing just compounds the issue.
Do we actually just want people to be able to play whatever cards they happen to draft? or do we care about drafters making tough choices?
I think that players who draft poorly should be punished in game with mana screw. That concept just makes sense to me. Is it not true that the ultimate goal of peasant cubes everywhere is to create the "perfect" limited format?
needless to say if the experiment doesn't work, my next step is to try and go the "Fast Fatty" route with Generator Servant and Fires and a few different choices for my 4 and 5 drop green creature sections.
The pauper thread seemed pretty down on Rhox Maulers. I wonder how different it is for peasant? Many of the complaints seemed centered around the 5cmc slot being full already. In CU/bes, we have a lot of utility there (Conclave Naturalists, Acidic Slime, Indrik Stomphowler) but not a finisher. Nessian Asp is good, but it's difficult for it to push in for damage sometimes.
@ beef
I am playing the 10 trilands, but not the vivids. Artifact fixing is irrelevant for aggro and occasionally incorrect in midrange. I don't count any of the 2 color lands as remotely cubable except maybe bounce lands but even then they are sketchy in my opinion.
I don't have a problem with people playing 3+4 color stuff.dec because I actually have a healthy aggro component to my cube. I find mana screw to be the defining negative quality about Magic. Going my draft without seeing a single land in my pair is bad form. I also think that I've shown many times how a bunch of 2 color lands (and gold cards in general) make the drafting process easier and decks weaker. I don't see anything wrong with the power level of the cube, and I don't see an impending problem either. Aside from a few problem cards or doing something like running too many kill spells (or too many of many things), the environment works even as old standbys get obsoleted.
I don't understand what part of "anyone can draft this land, so I have to figure out if I need it more than this excellent card in my colors" doesn't qualify as a hard choice to you, beef. Yes, if I get a city of brass and a mirrodin's core, I may consider playing a mountain and splashing for bloodbraid elf, but there is a cost to me doing that. That mountain has an opportunity to be taking the place of my second forest for blastoderm. That bloodbraid could sit in my hand. These are hard problems and real tradeoffs of consistency and a lack of consistency cam get you killed. So maybe I opt out of playing bbe and that mountain. When the format doesn't encourage games going to turn 25 you can't really win a lot when you make your deck inconsistent. I definitely think the difference in opinion comes from the unique way your cube is constructed.
I do want to create the best limited environment, but I don't think that emulating everything about natural set drafts is how to do so. And I certainly take issue with the fact that wizards refuses to put lands in at common and uncommon, and it has nothing to do with how they want limited to play. That's all about their bottom lines, and to take the scraps that they're willing to feed me is something I will not stand for.
@ beef
I am playing the 10 trilands, but not the vivids. Artifact fixing is irrelevant for aggro and occasionally incorrect in midrange. I don't count any of the 2 color lands as remotely cubable except maybe bounce lands but even then they are sketchy in my opinion.
That's because your expectations for power level are sitting way above a reasonable level for limited, in my opinion. Aggro decks don't even necessarily have access to efficient fixing in Standard in some recent rotations.
I don't have a problem with people playing 3+4 color stuff.dec because I actually have a healthy aggro component to my cube. I find mana screw to be the defining negative quality about Magic. Going my draft without seeing a single land in my pair is bad form.
Ok I have plenty of aggro decks and 3 color decks in my cube too. My aggro decks are limited aggro decks though, not constructed aggro decks. Maybe not even aggro decks, just aggressive decks. Mana screw is not usually a major defining factor in the results of matches, and the variance can certainly be mitigated through good choices. I see at least 4 pieces of mana fixing for every color combo every draft, obviously tough choices have to made and that fixing has to be picked over playables. This is limited, where nonbasic lands are not something a deck expects to have, but rather must search for if it wants to be greedier.
I also think that I've shown many times how a bunch of 2 color lands (and gold cards in general) make the drafting process easier and decks weaker. I don't see anything wrong with the power level of the cube, and I don't see an impending problem either. Aside from a few problem cards or doing something like running too many kill spells (or too many of many things), the environment works even as old standbys get obsoleted.
I'm ok with saying that it makes decks weaker, that's pretty much irrefutable. Not ok with saying it makes the drafting process easier, I firmly believe the opposite to be true.
I'm not seeing an impending problem either, I'm just saying that the power creep is real and we are far surpassing a normal limited power level at this point. Nearly every pick is a first pickable card these days.
I don't understand what part of "anyone can draft this land, so I have to figure out if I need it more than this excellent card in my colors" doesn't qualify as a hard choice to you, beef. Yes, if I get a city of brass and a mirrodin's core, I may consider playing a mountain and splashing for bloodbraid elf, but there is a cost to me doing that. That mountain has an opportunity to be taking the place of my second forest for blastoderm. That bloodbraid could sit in my hand. These are hard problems and real tradeoffs of consistency and a lack of consistency cam get you killed. So maybe I opt out of playing bbe and that mountain. When the format doesn't encourage games going to turn 25 you can't really win a lot when you make your deck inconsistent. I definitely think the difference in opinion comes from the unique way your cube is constructed.
I don't even know if that's a construction issue so much as a draft issue. In an eight man you can only wheel one card per pack, so it's rarely a question of what other players are doing. With 8 players you still can't reasonably expect to wheel lands in your colors.
I do want to create the best limited environment, but I don't think that emulating everything about natural set drafts is how to do so. And I certainly take issue with the fact that wizards refuses to put lands in at common and uncommon, and it has nothing to do with how they want limited to play. That's all about their bottom lines, and to take the scraps that they're willing to feed me is something I will not stand for.
I agree with that point about wizards printing lands at common and uncommon, but KTK is a huge step in the right direction. A decent cycle of common fixers and a great cycle of uncommon fixers in the same set is pretty sweet. Still waiting on {Basic Land - Swamp Island Enters the Battlefield tapped} as a cycle, but other than that I'm really pleased with what we have access to. I'm actively trying to emulated limited formats with my cube, if I wasn't I would have a synergy based junk rare cube.
That's because your expectations for power level are sitting way above a reasonable level for limited, in my opinion.
I think most people here would agree that part of the appeal of cube is the higher power level, in all aspects of deck construction and gameplay. When everything is better, is anything really better?
@ beef
I am playing the 10 trilands, but not the vivids. Artifact fixing is irrelevant for aggro and occasionally incorrect in midrange. I don't count any of the 2 color lands as remotely cubable except maybe bounce lands but even then they are sketchy in my opinion.
That's because your expectations for power level are sitting way above a reasonable level for limited, in my opinion. Aggro decks don't even necessarily have access to efficient fixing in Standard in some recent rotations.
I think you are the only person here concerned with making a environment on par with a block limited environment. To the rest of us, Cube is it's own environment.
Aside from the fact that the singleton nature of the cube and lack of rarity structure in our draft boosters makes the experience inherently different, a normal block/ set/ standard environment will have a very limited number of keywords and rules compared to a legacy cube.
I'm ok with saying that it makes decks weaker, that's pretty much irrefutable. Not ok with saying it makes the drafting process easier, I firmly believe the opposite to be true.
I'm not seeing an impending problem either, I'm just saying that the power creep is real and we are far surpassing a normal limited power level at this point. Nearly every pick is a first pickable card these days.
Doesn't that make drafting much harder? Almost everybody can make the right pick between a Flametongue Kavu or Tormentor Exarch. It is much harder if the powerlevel is more equal. Most players I know (including myself) who have a lot of experience with 'normal' drafting say they find cube drafting much harder because there are no clear unpickable cards. I don't see why you seem to think that increasing the power level of a cube makes drafting easier. The power level of cards is closer together aso this makes making the right pick harder. You might think a wrong decision might not be punished as much, but you have to consider that the power level of all cards is higher and as such the power level of decks is higher.Tthis makes small diffferences have huge consequences. Whether you want this in your cube or not is up to you, but I don't think you're right in assuming that with increased power level drafting because easier.
My 720 Peasant Cube
The fact that you can just keep using it on all your creatures every turn seems insane. I think this could be a really powerful effect for us.
Draft it on Cubetutor here, and CubeCobra here.
Treasure Cruise did nothing wrong.
My C/Ube on Cube Cobra
I played a Pauper game with my son and ended up doing 12 damage over three turns with this dude. I might have to rethink running this in a Goblin tribal deck...
- Citadel Castellan was drafted in a really sweet WG +1/+1 counters deck. It was only ever drawn once, at a point when the guy playing it was too far behind to come back, but he's very enthusiastic about the card and told me that if he hadn't been on the ropes then Castellan would have been great.
- I drafted Bounding Krasis myself in a UG deck splashing black for Murderous Cut and Possessed Skaab, and then never drew Krasis. But if I had, it would have been very good on the defense, because my opponent had:
- Sentinel of the Eternal Watch, which is just as insane in cube as it is in ORIx3 booster draft. This lady is no joke. I had (more than) lethal on the board, and tapping down my biggest attacker every turn not only saved my opponent from dying, but actually turned around an otherwise unwinnable game and sealed the deal for my opponent.
- Goblin Glory Chaser is a predictably great turn 1 play. The menace clause actually did come into play at one point, interestingly. The blocking mind games can actually lead to some blowouts - when you look at a 1-drop and go "wait, I have to double block it? It's just 2 damage. Whatever, I'll swing with everything since there's no point in holding back 2 of my big creatures to put in front of a 1-drop." and then when you're tapped out: pump, pump, pump.
- I managed to land Jhessian Thief several times, but never got to attack with her or trigger prowess. Everyone knew how powerful she is, and killed/bounced/exiled her accordingly.
- Patron of the Valiant made an appearance in the first place deck, which was WB. I don't think the guy who drafted it had anything beyond just a couple of cards that synergized with Patron's ETB trigger, so he was probably just running it (at worst) as a 4/4 flier for 3WW. I expect the card will perform even better in its home deck.
- Possessed Skaab is very nice. I used it to bring back and recast Murderous Cut. He's definitely Eternal Witness #2, and in more appropriate colors, too.
- Rhox Maulers are exceptional. I cast and resolved the card only once, and won the game as a result. The trample is relevant
- Whirler Rogue was great. I don't have any specific thoughts on this one that you haven't already heard before. The card is very strong: 3 bodies for 4 mana - 2 of which fly - plus the ability to make something unblockable. No surprises here; I think this'll be a c/ube staple for a long time.
- Shambling Ghoul is boring but viable. The winning WB deck, which was more midrange-y than aggressive, used it to gum up the ground in early turns while he waited for mana to cast his big dudes.
- Undercity Troll is another strong card which holds no surprises. Renown is easy to turn on here, and the Troll is hard to get rid of. Cast it turn 2, and leave mana open on turn 3 when you attack with it. If they try to use removal, regenerate it. If they don't then your 2/2 becomes a 3/3 and you get to cast something else during post-combat main.
I think those are all the Origins cards that showed up. The +1/+1 counters theme in WG went off swimmingly as well. I watched a turn 2 Ainok Bond-Kin get followed up with a turn 3 Prey Upon targetting the opponent's 3/3, and then while Prey Upon was on the stack, Test of Faith on the Bond-Kin. It was deliciously brutal.Edit: Something new that also went into effect for this draft was my cube going from 1 up to 7 Evolving Wilds. All of my drafters seemed happy with this. Singleton has always been a soft rule for my cube. Deciding to break that was tough, but I think it'll be good in the long run. Leelue's suggestion from a year or two back was the inspiration for this change.
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
needless to say if the experiment doesn't work, my next step is to try and go the "Fast Fatty" route with Generator Servant and Fires and a few different choices for my 4 and 5 drop green creature sections.
I mean there's nothing wrong with having a cube with shocks and fetches in it, but if a playgroup actually can't deal with having limited/peasant level manafixing, then maybe they shouldn't be playing with a "peasant" cube.
Wizards has done a good job of dialing back power creep in limited over the last couple of years, but cubes get worse and worse by the set. There should be a point where we consciously limit power level, and staying within our rarity for fixing seems like an easy start. The fact that we have upwards of 60 playable color fixing lands makes complaints about mana fixing so frustrating to me. The fact that blue and green don't even need any help with fixing just compounds the issue.
Do we actually just want people to be able to play whatever cards they happen to draft? or do we care about drafters making tough choices?
I think that players who draft poorly should be punished in game with mana screw. That concept just makes sense to me. Is it not true that the ultimate goal of peasant cubes everywhere is to create the "perfect" limited format?
Devoted Druid and Gravetiller Wurm work great for that kind of strategy.
T1: forest + ramp (Llanowar Elves Flyndhorn Elves Elvish Mystic Wild Growth Utopia Sprawl
T2: land + Devoted Druid/Generator Servant
T3: land + morbid activatedGravetiller Wurm w/ haste if you used a Generator Servant
Cubetutor link - 380 Peasant Cube
I am playing the 10 trilands, but not the vivids. Artifact fixing is irrelevant for aggro and occasionally incorrect in midrange. I don't count any of the 2 color lands as remotely cubable except maybe bounce lands but even then they are sketchy in my opinion.
I don't have a problem with people playing 3+4 color stuff.dec because I actually have a healthy aggro component to my cube. I find mana screw to be the defining negative quality about Magic. Going my draft without seeing a single land in my pair is bad form. I also think that I've shown many times how a bunch of 2 color lands (and gold cards in general) make the drafting process easier and decks weaker. I don't see anything wrong with the power level of the cube, and I don't see an impending problem either. Aside from a few problem cards or doing something like running too many kill spells (or too many of many things), the environment works even as old standbys get obsoleted.
I don't understand what part of "anyone can draft this land, so I have to figure out if I need it more than this excellent card in my colors" doesn't qualify as a hard choice to you, beef. Yes, if I get a city of brass and a mirrodin's core, I may consider playing a mountain and splashing for bloodbraid elf, but there is a cost to me doing that. That mountain has an opportunity to be taking the place of my second forest for blastoderm. That bloodbraid could sit in my hand. These are hard problems and real tradeoffs of consistency and a lack of consistency cam get you killed. So maybe I opt out of playing bbe and that mountain. When the format doesn't encourage games going to turn 25 you can't really win a lot when you make your deck inconsistent. I definitely think the difference in opinion comes from the unique way your cube is constructed.
I do want to create the best limited environment, but I don't think that emulating everything about natural set drafts is how to do so. And I certainly take issue with the fact that wizards refuses to put lands in at common and uncommon, and it has nothing to do with how they want limited to play. That's all about their bottom lines, and to take the scraps that they're willing to feed me is something I will not stand for.
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
My 540 CU/be thread
Draft it on Cubetutor here, and CubeCobra here.
Treasure Cruise did nothing wrong.
I'm not seeing an impending problem either, I'm just saying that the power creep is real and we are far surpassing a normal limited power level at this point. Nearly every pick is a first pickable card these days. I don't even know if that's a construction issue so much as a draft issue. In an eight man you can only wheel one card per pack, so it's rarely a question of what other players are doing. With 8 players you still can't reasonably expect to wheel lands in your colors. I agree with that point about wizards printing lands at common and uncommon, but KTK is a huge step in the right direction. A decent cycle of common fixers and a great cycle of uncommon fixers in the same set is pretty sweet. Still waiting on {Basic Land - Swamp Island Enters the Battlefield tapped} as a cycle, but other than that I'm really pleased with what we have access to. I'm actively trying to emulated limited formats with my cube, if I wasn't I would have a synergy based junk rare cube. It's always been playable. It's a strong card, but green's 4 cmc is a stacked slot.
I think most people here would agree that part of the appeal of cube is the higher power level, in all aspects of deck construction and gameplay. When everything is better, is anything really better?
Draft it on Cubetutor here, and CubeCobra here.
Treasure Cruise did nothing wrong.
I think you are the only person here concerned with making a environment on par with a block limited environment. To the rest of us, Cube is it's own environment.
Aside from the fact that the singleton nature of the cube and lack of rarity structure in our draft boosters makes the experience inherently different, a normal block/ set/ standard environment will have a very limited number of keywords and rules compared to a legacy cube.
Doesn't that make drafting much harder? Almost everybody can make the right pick between a Flametongue Kavu or Tormentor Exarch. It is much harder if the powerlevel is more equal. Most players I know (including myself) who have a lot of experience with 'normal' drafting say they find cube drafting much harder because there are no clear unpickable cards. I don't see why you seem to think that increasing the power level of a cube makes drafting easier. The power level of cards is closer together aso this makes making the right pick harder. You might think a wrong decision might not be punished as much, but you have to consider that the power level of all cards is higher and as such the power level of decks is higher.Tthis makes small diffferences have huge consequences. Whether you want this in your cube or not is up to you, but I don't think you're right in assuming that with increased power level drafting because easier.
My C/Ube on Cube Cobra