i ran the full flicker combo with great success in my johnnycube for quite a while, so i eventually moved it into spike. unfortunately i was unable to test it there up until now.
while spike has more removal, it also has the better counterspells.
you def want to keep it monoU
I have Swarm in Naya and Sacrifice in Black, which pairs nicely with Swarm. The idea is to have some synergy for blue apart from goodstuff only. The plan is too keep it based U and have a few overlapping cards, like Ephemerate for Uw, Dinrova Horror and Cavern Harpy as a great flicker target/enabler for Ub and maybe Izzet Chronarch as an additional enabler for Ur.
that thing is U for quite some time Salvager of Secrets ( also wouldnt run archaeomancer
I just included it to give monoU an alternative win route. Dinrova might work, but once you got the combo running, Manowar+Mulldrifter is ususally fine. Harpy is just awful.
I rarely draft my cube with 8 people, mostly 4-6 nowadays. I would offer multiple options to make it more likely to get at least one and maybe multiple copies, at least Archaeomancer, Mnemonic Wall and Salvager of Secrets and maybe even Scrivener. The Cronarch might be unneccessary as red doesn't really offer any advantage if you go for the combo and these 3-4 alternatives should be enough.
If I only run part the cube, the chance, that you will get only 1 half of the combo is too high so I'm trying to increase redundancy as much as possible. Apart from that none of them are unplayable. Yeah the body of the Archeomancer doessn't do much, but it's still a borderline card on it's own. It also doesn't hurt to have 2 copies in the deck, because it doesn't do much if one part of the combo is in the top half if the deck and the other is the bottom card of the deck. I'm also thinking about Drift of Phantasms to tutor for Flicker/Displace. It's also not a horrible 3 drop.
yeah ok, i draft the full cube at 6 players, no matter what. running too many duplicates makes the draft kinda dull and eats up a lot of valuable slots. to me a big reason to include it, that it more or less only takes 4 slots. 2 flicker and 2 recursion.
Btw. starting tomorrow I will be abroad for a few months digital detoxing myself for a while. Just so you know, if anyone is wondering why I'm not active at all. Bye
I think green 4 drops are getting super crowded now. Blastoderm and Trumpeting Herd are pretty set and Penumbra Spider rarely fails to overperform in my experience, but the rest is are on a similar powerlevel.
How would you rank these candidates?
4/4 Trample:
-Bannerhide Krushok: No flexibility tax for 2 very solid cards in 1 + Scavenge.
-Fierce Witchstalker: Trample on a 4/4 is already very nice and the food token isn't completely irrelevant.
-Peema Outrider: Another 4/4 trample with a little flexibility.
-Hooting Mandrills: Ok not officially a 4 drop, but I do count it as one. Green is definitely the worst color to fill it's own graveyard for Delve without dedicated self mill cards, but on the other hand you will often have a 2nd color, that might help you with that.
4/4 wihtout without Trample:
-Voracious Typhon: Recusrion, but bad against exile/enchantment removal.
-Shadowbeast Sighting: Recursion, but bad against Bounce.
-Hookhand Mariner: A 4/4 Vanilla on the front is still a decent body and the flip into a ceratinly very impressive backside doesn't require any mana investment.
5/5 with downside:
-Imperiosaur: 5/5 for 4 is obviously sick, but I do play a lot of 1 mana ramp and also a decent amount nonbasics. This card definitely has a lot of weird anti-synergies, which lead to weird situations.
-Emperor Crocodile: Another 5/5 for 4. The possible downside against red or black decks is obvious, but the stats are a good counter argument.
Utility:
-Sarulf's Packmate: Another strong addition, IMO. We have come a long way since the days of Kavu Climber, Nantuko Shaman and Joraga Visionary to end up with a straight up 3/3 for 4, that draws a card with even a small upside. I do think that green really needs this kind of card to not run out of gas, but the question is where does it rank compared to the others?
My playgroup decided, that they don't want monarch cards anymore. As much as I dislike cutting cards, due to powerlevel, this is a decision compareable to the reason, why I cut the hexproof/aura archetype. It's simply puts certain archetypes at a more significant disadvantage than others. Noncreature spell heavy control decks have a very hard time getting the crown and with this being in the command zone there is no other way to interact with it, so I decided to go in with the popular vote. It's not like I don't have more than enough alternative options.
On a sidenote, I do sometimes follow what is happening in constructed pauper and it seems that Bonder's Ornament seems to perform quite decently there. What are the thoughts on this card? I think for me it competes with a spot with Filigree Familiar.
For green creatures with mana value for I run: Bannerhide Krushok - 4/4 trample with upside. The main reason I run this over the others is it doubles at a main deckable combat trick which makes turns more interesting. The wolf that makes food is tempting too. Scavenge gives the green deck something to do with it's mana lategame. Blastoderm - What can I say, it's a staple. Occasionally, you play against tokens and it's bad, but almost all of the time it's going to be the best 4 mana play you can do in green. Imperiosaur - A 4 mana 5/5 with downside. When this works it is good. I can see some justification for not running this with mana elves and non-basics galore, but this card has always been good for me. Jade Guardian and Primal Huntbeast - The hexproofers. I know Al_Z_Heimer doesn't run these because of unfun play patterns. I personally like these cards and this is where most of the flex slots go to. The play pattern is quite simple, land one of these then modify it with auras, counters and equipment. Bonus points if that is Armadillo Cloak. What I like about these cards is they encourage proactive plays, deathtouch, combat tricks and enchantment removal. At the same time I glad Wizards switched to ward because the format really doesn't need many of these before they become a problem. Prenumbra Spider - So I'm a spider, so what? is what this card basically says. It's another staple and nearly always amazing. Basically, the Giant Spider we need. Sarulf's Packmate - One of the weaker mana value 4 creatures, but still decent. A cantrap 3/3 is fine in most match ups and the foretell is nice utility, but this card doesn't do much more than fill out a curve when nothing better is available. Wickerbough Elder - One of the best pieces of artifact and enchantment hate. This is main deckable, but not terribly exciting. It can be a bit of a dead card in some match ups as it is a Hill Giant in those games. Still this card can be exactly the right answer in other games, so if you play with sideboards I highly rate this. Trumpeting Herd - This is the other best 4 mana play in green. I mean, it's 6 total power and toughness respectively for 4 mana with very little downside, that should simply be enough convincing. Mwonvuli Acid-Moss - While not a 4 mana creature, this is a viable 4 mana green play. I still like this card. It probably doesn't fit into most 360 card cubes. But for me it's Stone Rain and ramp in one. It's good of the back of mana elves and is one of the few land destruction effects which doesn't feel plain mean, probably because your actually advancing your board state rather than just blowing up lands. Hooting Mandril - Not technically a 4 mana play, but functionally is. This doesn't really synergise with mana elves at all, but still is decent as a curve topper for some decks especially ones that fill their graveyard that don't already have a delve card in them. Hooting Mandril is fine and it wouldn't be the first 4 mana card I'd cut, but can often feel a bit lacking.
Honourable mention: Festerhide Boar - This was the most recent cut. If it works it's great as a 5/5 trample 4 mana creature. But I found it to be too conditional as either it's on the chonk chart or it's a small fart, with relatively little control on your behalf to which.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
There's no word in the goblin language for "strategy." Then again, there's no word in the goblin language for "word."
i carefully monitored festerhide in my cube and surprisingly it always was a 5/5.
just run an elf into a blocker and youre set.
meanwhile penumbra was underperforming. 2 power for 4 just isnt going to win the game. and you dont want to go late with green. it also doesnt really stop blues 4/4s. GG also hurts a lot
i dont think theyre unfun, but the 3/3 hexproofs are bad without a modify. id ve liked to see a 4/4 or bigger. But now they moved to Ward
for the first time ever i removed powerful cards from my t1 for balancing reasons. the catch-all mv2 black removal.
i still have all the mv1 removal, so black should still be fine
I somehow missed and found Ettercap, which is awesome. The inclusion of Experiment One has made me rearrange my green (again). Now some kind of mini-stompy is present, but im not sure
Choose 2: Tithe Drinker: Child of Night (decent card on it's own) with Extort on top. It's really fragile, but can also do a lot for you if your opponent can't handle it fast. From my experience Extort is obviously amazing, but the 2/1 body can rarely participate in combat and it feels more like a fragile enchantment.
vs. Blind Hunter: Bloodhunter Bat with Haunt. I don't think that the initial card is very impressive, but the haunt is is certainly not that hard to trigger and with the additional drain it definitely hits quite hard.
vs. Cartel Aristocrat: I certainly remember it being quite good, especially because I support a sacrifice theme in black anyway.
I was recently thinking about my last atorius slot. I have been running Curse of Chains for a while and while it's certainly a strong card I prefer more unique effects for my multicolor slots.
Chhose 1: Lyev Skyknight: Decent body and flicker target.
vs. Silver Drake: Self bounce is definitely a tempo loss, compared to flicker, but with the overabundance of etb effects (especially draw a card) we recently got in white, more ways to retrigger them would be nice.
i run the drake, because my blue already supports a selfbounce theme.
not too high on toughness 1 as you know.
curse is effectively a monocolored removal, which makes it redundant. i like the approach to move almost all removal into guilds to promote multicolor decks (my cube tends to become monocolored) and naturally limit the amount of removal in the decks
Symbiotic Beast now at common.
What do you all think? For one mor mana than silverback shaman, you get 4 1/1s instead of a card.
Well it's 1 more mana, 1 less power and also no more trample. The death trigger is certainly powerful, but right now I don't think it's good enough, but I might be underrating it.
while spike has more removal, it also has the better counterspells.
you def want to keep it monoU
T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t
Pauper Cube & Artifact Pauper Cube & Multiplayer Cube
Interested in building your own Pauper Cube? Take a look at some of the lists and the following project: The "Evaluate Everything" Project (updated to M21/JMP)
are you in a time capsule?
that thing is U for quite some time Salvager of Secrets ( also wouldnt run archaeomancer
I just included it to give monoU an alternative win route. Dinrova might work, but once you got the combo running, Manowar+Mulldrifter is ususally fine. Harpy is just awful.
T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t
Pauper Cube & Artifact Pauper Cube & Multiplayer Cube
Interested in building your own Pauper Cube? Take a look at some of the lists and the following project: The "Evaluate Everything" Project (updated to M21/JMP)
T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t
Pauper Cube & Artifact Pauper Cube & Multiplayer Cube
Interested in building your own Pauper Cube? Take a look at some of the lists and the following project: The "Evaluate Everything" Project (updated to M21/JMP)
T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t
My C/Ube on Cube Cobra
Pauper Cube & Artifact Pauper Cube & Multiplayer Cube
Interested in building your own Pauper Cube? Take a look at some of the lists and the following project: The "Evaluate Everything" Project (updated to M21/JMP)
T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t
How would you rank these candidates?
4/4 Trample:
-Bannerhide Krushok: No flexibility tax for 2 very solid cards in 1 + Scavenge.
-Fierce Witchstalker: Trample on a 4/4 is already very nice and the food token isn't completely irrelevant.
-Peema Outrider: Another 4/4 trample with a little flexibility.
-Hooting Mandrills: Ok not officially a 4 drop, but I do count it as one. Green is definitely the worst color to fill it's own graveyard for Delve without dedicated self mill cards, but on the other hand you will often have a 2nd color, that might help you with that.
4/4 wihtout without Trample:
-Voracious Typhon: Recusrion, but bad against exile/enchantment removal.
-Shadowbeast Sighting: Recursion, but bad against Bounce.
-Hookhand Mariner: A 4/4 Vanilla on the front is still a decent body and the flip into a ceratinly very impressive backside doesn't require any mana investment.
5/5 with downside:
-Imperiosaur: 5/5 for 4 is obviously sick, but I do play a lot of 1 mana ramp and also a decent amount nonbasics. This card definitely has a lot of weird anti-synergies, which lead to weird situations.
-Emperor Crocodile: Another 5/5 for 4. The possible downside against red or black decks is obvious, but the stats are a good counter argument.
Utility:
-Sarulf's Packmate: Another strong addition, IMO. We have come a long way since the days of Kavu Climber, Nantuko Shaman and Joraga Visionary to end up with a straight up 3/3 for 4, that draws a card with even a small upside. I do think that green really needs this kind of card to not run out of gas, but the question is where does it rank compared to the others?
Pauper Cube & Artifact Pauper Cube & Multiplayer Cube
Interested in building your own Pauper Cube? Take a look at some of the lists and the following project: The "Evaluate Everything" Project (updated to M21/JMP)
Blastoderm - still in the top10 cube cards
Festerhide Boar - never failed to drop as a 5/5
Fierce Witchstalker - mainly run it for the lifegain
Imperiosaur - not castable from elves hurts a tiny bit
Voracious Typhon - gives green a more solid lategame
Wild Leotau - never cared about the upkeep
Trumpeting Herd - technically its a spell.
Sarulf's Packmate - i consider it a 2 drop
T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t
On a sidenote, I do sometimes follow what is happening in constructed pauper and it seems that Bonder's Ornament seems to perform quite decently there. What are the thoughts on this card? I think for me it competes with a spot with Filigree Familiar.
Pauper Cube & Artifact Pauper Cube & Multiplayer Cube
Interested in building your own Pauper Cube? Take a look at some of the lists and the following project: The "Evaluate Everything" Project (updated to M21/JMP)
i like monarch but im aware of complaints. hexproof is somewhat of a counter tho
T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t
Bannerhide Krushok - 4/4 trample with upside. The main reason I run this over the others is it doubles at a main deckable combat trick which makes turns more interesting. The wolf that makes food is tempting too. Scavenge gives the green deck something to do with it's mana lategame.
Blastoderm - What can I say, it's a staple. Occasionally, you play against tokens and it's bad, but almost all of the time it's going to be the best 4 mana play you can do in green.
Imperiosaur - A 4 mana 5/5 with downside. When this works it is good. I can see some justification for not running this with mana elves and non-basics galore, but this card has always been good for me.
Jade Guardian and Primal Huntbeast - The hexproofers. I know Al_Z_Heimer doesn't run these because of unfun play patterns. I personally like these cards and this is where most of the flex slots go to. The play pattern is quite simple, land one of these then modify it with auras, counters and equipment. Bonus points if that is Armadillo Cloak. What I like about these cards is they encourage proactive plays, deathtouch, combat tricks and enchantment removal. At the same time I glad Wizards switched to ward because the format really doesn't need many of these before they become a problem.
Prenumbra Spider - So I'm a spider, so what? is what this card basically says. It's another staple and nearly always amazing. Basically, the Giant Spider we need.
Sarulf's Packmate - One of the weaker mana value 4 creatures, but still decent. A cantrap 3/3 is fine in most match ups and the foretell is nice utility, but this card doesn't do much more than fill out a curve when nothing better is available.
Wickerbough Elder - One of the best pieces of artifact and enchantment hate. This is main deckable, but not terribly exciting. It can be a bit of a dead card in some match ups as it is a Hill Giant in those games. Still this card can be exactly the right answer in other games, so if you play with sideboards I highly rate this.
Trumpeting Herd - This is the other best 4 mana play in green. I mean, it's 6 total power and toughness respectively for 4 mana with very little downside, that should simply be enough convincing.
Mwonvuli Acid-Moss - While not a 4 mana creature, this is a viable 4 mana green play. I still like this card. It probably doesn't fit into most 360 card cubes. But for me it's Stone Rain and ramp in one. It's good of the back of mana elves and is one of the few land destruction effects which doesn't feel plain mean, probably because your actually advancing your board state rather than just blowing up lands.
Hooting Mandril - Not technically a 4 mana play, but functionally is. This doesn't really synergise with mana elves at all, but still is decent as a curve topper for some decks especially ones that fill their graveyard that don't already have a delve card in them. Hooting Mandril is fine and it wouldn't be the first 4 mana card I'd cut, but can often feel a bit lacking.
Honourable mention:
Festerhide Boar - This was the most recent cut. If it works it's great as a 5/5 trample 4 mana creature. But I found it to be too conditional as either it's on the chonk chart or it's a small fart, with relatively little control on your behalf to which.
just run an elf into a blocker and youre set.
meanwhile penumbra was underperforming. 2 power for 4 just isnt going to win the game. and you dont want to go late with green. it also doesnt really stop blues 4/4s. GG also hurts a lot
i dont think theyre unfun, but the 3/3 hexproofs are bad without a modify. id ve liked to see a 4/4 or bigger. But now they moved to Ward
T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t
i still have all the mv1 removal, so black should still be fine
turns out. mv2 removal was too slow anyway
T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t
T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t
Tithe Drinker: Child of Night (decent card on it's own) with Extort on top. It's really fragile, but can also do a lot for you if your opponent can't handle it fast. From my experience Extort is obviously amazing, but the 2/1 body can rarely participate in combat and it feels more like a fragile enchantment.
vs.
Blind Hunter: Bloodhunter Bat with Haunt. I don't think that the initial card is very impressive, but the haunt is is certainly not that hard to trigger and with the additional drain it definitely hits quite hard.
vs.
Cartel Aristocrat: I certainly remember it being quite good, especially because I support a sacrifice theme in black anyway.
Pauper Cube & Artifact Pauper Cube & Multiplayer Cube
Interested in building your own Pauper Cube? Take a look at some of the lists and the following project: The "Evaluate Everything" Project (updated to M21/JMP)
T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t
Blind Hunter is still fine. A more or less guaranteed drain for 4 and a wind drake is good.
Never played cartel but you need recursion and it folds to global stat decrease still. Its def. better than Drinker.
I think going to 4 Orzhov is a stretch.
T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t
Chhose 1:
Lyev Skyknight: Decent body and flicker target.
vs.
Silver Drake: Self bounce is definitely a tempo loss, compared to flicker, but with the overabundance of etb effects (especially draw a card) we recently got in white, more ways to retrigger them would be nice.
Pauper Cube & Artifact Pauper Cube & Multiplayer Cube
Interested in building your own Pauper Cube? Take a look at some of the lists and the following project: The "Evaluate Everything" Project (updated to M21/JMP)
not too high on toughness 1 as you know.
curse is effectively a monocolored removal, which makes it redundant. i like the approach to move almost all removal into guilds to promote multicolor decks (my cube tends to become monocolored) and naturally limit the amount of removal in the decks
T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t
What do you all think? For one mor mana than silverback shaman, you get 4 1/1s instead of a card.
Pauper Cube & Artifact Pauper Cube & Multiplayer Cube
Interested in building your own Pauper Cube? Take a look at some of the lists and the following project: The "Evaluate Everything" Project (updated to M21/JMP)