Elimination of players was usually not a problem in my rounds. You just pair against the next guy who is free, no need to have some sort of swiss going.
but the dev is too lazy to fix his site, so it always gets saved in his cube..
but regarding your question, its hard to tell how your cube plays since you run tons of weird cards decisions. Id say there are a lot of really bad cards in it, like Rot Wolf being the only Infect creature and other completely useless crap Kjeldoran Skycaptain?? Banding is a pretty awkward mechanic and the only somewhat reasonable creature is Benalish Hero Its also not a good design to add Peregrine Drake, but not Ghostly Flicker, since it sends the signal to the drafter the combo is included.
Only playtesting it will tell you what works and what not.
Its good to see you start your own approach and dislke styborskis pile of *****. that said, Othesemo cube made a lot more sense than yours and it looks you basically added like 30-40 commons from the mid 90s era. Those are nostalgic but close to unplayable
but the dev is too lazy to fix his site, so it always gets saved in his cube..
but regarding your question, its hard to tell how your cube plays since you run tons of weird cards decisions. Id say there are a lot of really bad cards in it, like Rot Wolf being the only Infect creature and other completely useless crap Kjeldoran Skycaptain?? Banding is a pretty awkward mechanic and the only somewhat reasonable creature is Benalish Hero Its also not a good design to add Peregrine Drake, but not Ghostly Flicker, since it sends the signal to the drafter the combo is included.
Only playtesting it will tell you what works and what not.
Its good to see you start your own approach and dislke styborskis pile of *****. that said, Othesemo cube made a lot more sense than yours and it looks you basically added like 30-40 commons from the mid 90s era. Those are nostalgic but close to unplayable
Hexproof isn't fun, so Rot Wolf took Silhana Ledgewalker's spot as a Voltron creature. Infect isn't fun either, so that's why it's the only infect card in the cube. It's mainly there to force your opponent to give you free card draw and to give green a more interactive Voltron creature than one with Hexproof.
The games with my cube tend to go long so 5 mana for a 2/2 with flying and first strike and banding seems fine. Past a certain point mana cost is irrelevant. That's why I have cards like Skinthinner, for example. 5 mana is hefty but morph is fun and you'll have enough time to get to play it.
Banding as a whole is decently useful and a solid pick for any white deck in my cube. I don't know why everyone has such an aversion to it, god forbid one has to read a paragraph or think.
Ghostly Flicker ruins the game and Peregrine Drake is still a free creature and worth playing without it. I want games to be interactive, not ruined by degeneracy.
I've only been playing Magic for a year, I don't have any nostalgia for certain cards. Usually it's just the way the art on the card looks or how the card functions. I really think Morph is cool, so that's why there are so many morph creatures in the cube.
The problem with Banding creatures is their horrible mana cost to body ratio. Sometimes the effect can be useful, but usually you want to have the cards do enough on their own. Reading paragraphs during the games isnt too great either, since the creatures lack the tooltip. Thats only a problem on the firsts drafts though.
Maybe its because you play jut for a short period, but mana cost becomes never irrelevant, you want to have more plays a turn or bluff answers. Paying 5 for a 2/2 is huge tempoloss. You also want to have a reasonable mana curve in your deck.
I also doubt the games go that long, unless your playgroup is as unexperienced. RG Beatz for example looks pretty fast to me. http://www.cubetutor.com/cubedeck/1042880
Rot Wolf doesnt draw you cards, it gets ignored until you have 6-8 poison counters and then gets removed or chumped.
Peregrine Drake is pretty mediocre. And as said, it sends wrong signals.
A card can be nostalgic without being around at that time. Its just the flavor of the yesterdays that makes them interesting. We are playing paupercube and magic in general for a while here now and playtested a lot of cards. Many of the cards you run dont work, at least not in the general poweroriented and not even neccessarily in the archetype driven ones. As you see in my sig, i have both approaches.
That said, I think its always cool to see something different, but right now your cube looks quite unbalanced. You run a lot of the powerful cards as well as the packfiller. Maybe you want to try to build an old school pauper cube with only the old frame? Or start there and then add more modern cards on the same powerlevel and bring more depths into some mechanics like morph. I dont think it works well the other way around (starting with a modern powerlevel and water it down with the old school stuff)
Running Rogue Elephant and Acridian is very brave in this day and age There's so much removal running around that the Elephant turns out to be a liability more than an asset. And Acridian will throw off your curve in all kinds of ways. That said, I run both and I think they're still relatively ok to play. Acridian in particular might actually become more relevant as the number of Savannah Lions and Borderland Marauders increase in pauper. Since you're already running those two, how about going whole hog and throwing in a Phyrexian War Beast too?
Humphrey is right about banding and infect though. If I had to level one criticism at banding, aside from the (in)comprehension issues and time issues it brings up, it is this: Magic is a game which already comes with a defender's advantage (the defender chooses what to block, how many creatures to block with, how to most efficiently block to maximize trades, etc). Banding takes that advantage and amplifies it to a point where it messes with the game's flow. It bogs the game down because, instead of the constant flow of back-and-forth, attack-defend-counterattack that the game encourages (and this in-game dynamic is so incredibly sophisticated that most of us players never really notice or think about it when it's working smoothly) banding almost completely removes any incentive to attack by making combat math difficult or even impossible to solve for the attacker, thus discouraging one of the most basic avenues to victory in the game.
What's interesting to me is that a mechanic which is kind of the reverse (provoke) hasn't made a comeback either (I notice you have more provoke creatures than average in your list). I'm a big fan of this mechanic and I keep hoping it'll make a comeback in a more efficient or fixed form.
At any rate, it looks like you really like things that can mess with combat math. Have you considered other ways to mess with combat? I know certain cubes (used to?) run Infantry Veteran. Other stuff like Heavy Ballista. Maybe more creatures that can self-pump like Ursine Champion or Knight of the Skyward Eye? Black has several Looming Shade-like cards. Oh yeah - the Kor creatures from Tempest block were essentially fixed banding, now that I think about it. If you like banding, you would probably like Nomads en-Kor and Spirit en-Kor. Zealous Inquisitor is a similar card. I also have Lancers en-Kor and Warrior en-Kor on my personal shortlist of cards I think will be downshifted eventually.
RE: Rot Wolf - Green gets its card advantage through ramp like Cultivate and Skyshroud Claim, or pump like Wildsize and Sylvan Might. Rot Wolf almost seems worse than Generous Stray, since the cat gives you a card up-front and threatens the opponent better than what is essentially a 0/2 on offense for four turns until it morphs into a 20/2 (I can see how you could use Rot Wolf defensively to discourage small attackers or as pseudo-removal for bigger creatures though). In a magical world, you could just slap Elephant Guide on it and swing twice. I don't know if things usually work out that well in regular games, but I guess if you or your fellow drafters like the all-in, win-or-lose-with-one-play approach, you can have at it. Consider creatures like Wandering Wolf or Aura Gnarlid that also benefit from the Voltron theme without using a parasitic mechanic like infect or being too obnoxious like hexproof.
Thanks for putting up the list - it's definitely interesting to see how a newer player might approach a cube and why. There's some things that kind of go against common knowledge, but it's also a way for viewers to rethink why we do things a certain way.
P.S. I'm really curious how Ghostly Flicker "ruins the game" for you. In my experience, it's usually just an okay value pick that goes into Ux blink/value decks, the same way that Momentary Blink does.
So far I've been told by four different people that:
1.) The cube has too much removal. My ASFAN for removal is 2.875 btw.
2.) Big dumb Gruul Beaters might be too good and you're not going to be able to get to play Kjeldoran Skycaptain or other overcosted creatures.
3.) Banding buffs defending too much, when defending already grants you an inherent advantage.
4.) Blue is underpowered. Meanwhile another player is beating my face in with Mulldrifter and Nimbus Naiad and Peregrine Drake.
So it seems to me that it's fairly balanced, lol.
My cube games are weird. It's a 360 sized cube, but most of my drafts are only with 4 people. So even if something is OP you only get to see half the cube.
My issue with Ghostly Flicker is that it utterly ruins constructed Pauper. Any sort of fun, fair, interactive midrange deck in Pauper gets absolutely crushed by infinite flicker loops. It loops infinitely with Mnemonic Wall and Pulse of Murasa and Haunted Fengraf and Moment's Peace and Mystical Teachings and Mulldrifter and whatever other already superb cards and breaks the game. Despite what the online tournament data tells you, Tron is the best deck in Pauper. Nothing stops it besides for super fast aggro and even then it's only a 60/40 at best. With Fire & Ice being downshifted in UMA Tron may even have the advantage now. I just don't want it in my cube. Mulldrifter is already worth first pick hate drafting, so I don't see the need to buff it any further.
To be frank, Tron players and Combo players don't actually like playing Magic, just getting free wins and playing uninteractive solitaire with godmode enabled. That's been my experience with X-Wing Miniatures and Magic has been no different. I prefer to instead play fun, fair, interactive Magic and I want my cube to reflect that.
For example, the last time I drafted my opponent morphed a creature in, and I had just added in a bunch more Morph creatures to the cube. I knew he had Ruthless Ripper, but I was struggling to remember what the others could be. So I used a Ray of Command on it so that I could look at it and it was a Haunted Cadaver, which would have blown me out. This knowledge allowed me to play around it. Eventually I lost to a Voltaic Servant with Vulshok Gauntlets and Nimbus Naiad.
That's extremely cool and is much more fun than getting flicker looped.
Your thoughts on Rot Wolf echo mine, that it prevents smaller creatures from attacking, it's a decent Voltron, and it can be used to wither bigger creatures in a pinch. With Green's access to ramp, they can afford to pay 3 mana for a 2/2 with some decent abilities. Even in a 1 for 1 trade it replaces itself, so if you trade it with another 2/2 it's a "one for zero". I've had success making it huge and playing a fight card with it.
I get some resistance for putting what I would consider to be "okay" cards in my cube but that's kind of the point. I want the games to be longer and more interesting and interactive. The fact that your opponent can interact with Dash Hopes and that they get to make the decision is the whole reason it's in the cube, that's fun.
Many people seem to view cube as a showcase of Magic's most powerful cards, which is a non-sequitur. I think that cube should instead be the showcase of the most fun Magic cards.
Oh yeah - the Kor creatures from Tempest block were essentially fixed banding, now that I think about it. If you like banding, you would probably like Nomads en-Kor and Spirit en-Kor. Zealous Inquisitor is a similar card. I also have Lancers en-Kor and Warrior en-Kor on my personal shortlist of cards I think will be downshifted eventually.
I agree with everything you wrote above about banding, but the en-Kor are only "fixed" banding if banding needed to be better than it already was (on defense). The ones with an activation cost, maybe but the "0: redirect" creatures are stupid in that regard (although I believe OG banding stops trample while en-Kors do not).
the whole "cube thats build around combat mess" sounds so interesting to me that i almost want to build it lol. The Kors have somewhat more reasonable bodies, but play much easier while also pretty close to banding. Coupled with some healers like Alabaster WallHallowed HealerTroubled Healer this gives you real headaches
but theyre not common yet And im not so sure we see them reprinted before R&D returns that mechanic, if ever.
Hexproof btw is the meta adaption to the insane amount and efficieny of removal in powerdriven cubes. Its kinda unfun while also readding fun against removal.dec. And you can still balance them with enough deathtouch creatures.
And yeah Ghostly Flicker actually is a fair card. It adds to the "mess with combat" theme, while still fair and even the Peregrine combo takes so much time to assemble that its just a wincon for controldecks. Add some gy removal (its already there) like Faerie Macabre and you have answers.
Instead of putting cancer in my cube and putting answers to the cancer in my cube to balance things out, I much prefer to just not have the original cancer in the first place. I want games to be interactive and fun, not won or lost solely on the basis of whether you were able to draft the Faerie Macabre or not. I don't like hard counters, and Rock Paper Scissors isn't a good game.
Instead of having Degenerate Card A that requires Nuance-less Hard Counter Card B, why not just have neither and put 2 fun cards in the cube instead? Like more morph creatures or Time Ebb, for example.
man you must really have had a hard time against it lol.
to put it in persepective i think the card is not even tier1 worthy and run the combo in my t2, although its pretty close.
its definitely not my definition of cancer.
If you dont like draw-go style decks or removal.dec you need to retweak you cube still a lot. Whether or not that leads to more "fun" its up to the playgroup though, since some like that gamestyle and quite a lot of "unfun" mechanics that got removed from magic over the years (land-destruction, efficient removal, efficient counters) didnt neccessarily add more depth to the game. Some would argue it took away a lot.
I have no issue with losing a creature to a doom blade, that's not my issue. I agree that with threats + answers comes the interaction. Playing a creature, only to have your opponent Doom Blade it with the potential for you to play a protection spell is interaction. The dictionary definition of interaction is, "Reciprocal action or influence".
My issue is with cards that fundamentally ruin the game. Flicker Loops are the very opposite of reciprocal action or influence.
I like Flicker and think its highly interactive, its a great combat trick and save against removal and it activates ETB trigger and so on. If you dont want to go infinite Id rater cut the Drake and/or the Mnemonic Wall type stuff. And as said, there are quite a few gy hate cards that can reasonably be mainboarded.
Meanwhile Id say Doom Blade is the much more boring card.
But thats just my personal preference I guess.
hm i missed the post where he referred to constructed. i c, thats where the hate comes from
well cubes dont play like constructed and when you get a strong combo going many things must have done right leading to this (drafting, deck building and piloting, drawing all the combo pieces) and should be rewarded. Besides, Tron being pretty strong, its probably one of the hardest decks to play and usually im a guy that thinks a lot of "hard" decks are almost auto-pilot. maybe its because im unfamiliar with the meta and the deck, but its not a auto-win deck.
Regarding morph, many here came to the conclusion that morph is a little unfair for new players unless you have a list floating with the available morphs, since you know them all and they dont.
Everyone by the way has a different idea of fun. For some its the combat, or strong spells or combo or disruption and so on. At best your cube provides something for everyone, although thats pretty tough in pauper because of the limited complexity.
The critcs about "okay" cards come as i said not from running them per se, but in combination with "too strong" cards. An experienced drafter will ignore all the cute cards, pick the best and crush everyone that want to play the durdle deck. Balancing a cube takes a while.
My cube's purpose is to be enjoyed by Magic players. Since what Combo and Tron players enjoy doing doesn't count as Magic, I don't see any value in catering to them.
Fun isn't subjective and everyone enjoys the same things when it comes to Magic. Everyone enjoys having player agency and if you rob that from someone they've objectively had less fun.
I suppose I could include Ghostly Flicker and leave out the ways to loop it infinitely, but naw. Mulldrifter is already good enough.
I just had person #5 tell me how out of control blue and black are in my cube. The cube seems pretty balanced to me.
What's wrong with Healing Leaves? It's just a combat trick or you can nullify a bolt or whatever with it. What's the problem?
And Dash Hopes is either a counterspell or 5 damage. Neither of which are desirable even if you get to choose which one. Again, what's wrong?
And why does Ethereal Armor not make any sense? You can still make a Voltron with it, just not on a hexproof creature because hexproof is objectively not fun, just like fire is objectively painful or feces tastes objectively bad.
What's with everyone's aversion to playing fun, fair, interactive Magic? Dash Hopes is a fun card. Just because you're not breaking the game with it does not mean it's a terrible card.
Dash Hopes gives you opponent the choice what it does, thats never a good thing. It always does what the opponent hurts less, besides I dont see an archetype that really wants that effect.
Checking your cube Armor seems borderline ok for the amount of enchantments you run. The goblin tribal doesnt work though, trust me Ive tried it ^^ You barely got enough playable goblins together, even if you force it in draft. And the amount of horrible goblins you (need to) run doesnt help there.
The problem comes when your definition of "fun" comes to a place where player draft to win. They will just ignore all those cards and you basically wasted precious cube space for junk. You might end as the only one playing those (and lose)
Dont feel yourself cornered though, you came to a place with experienced paupercubers and we are pretty tight when it comes to card quality, even though a bunch of us like the durdle games, the cards must be good.
Half the fun is playtesting it and readjusting it yourself. When I came here back then I also didnt follow any advices and did my own thing. But a lot of the advices I got turned out right
Here you can see what I started with in 2013: http://www.cubetutor.com/visualspoiler/4832
goblins tribal, sliver tribal,elf tribal, mill? bring it on All my hopes and dreams got crushed after I drafted it ^^
In the end, some cards that were considered bad became staple of my cube though, so it was worth it.
That's because a fun, fair, interactive game is objectively more fun to humans than a non-interactive one. Just like sugar objectively tastes better to humans than pine cones or whatever.
You can argue about how personal taste is subjective all you want but past a certain point you're just denying reality. At their core, humans are just brain chemistry. If you can say that fire is objectively painful, and that sugar tastes objectively good to humans, why couldn't one assert that other experiences like art or fun be objectively rated?
So yes, I am asserting that my view of what's fun is the correct one.
5 life is negligible at 20 life, sure. But not at 12 life. I've won two games with this card, I don't see the issue with it. It's a fun card with interaction built into it, I like those.
I seem to have enough enchantments to make Ethereal Armor worth it. I have a bunch of pacifisms and such. Just because you can't make a 30/30 first strike hexproof doesn't mean it's not worth playing. I took out Lagonna Band Trailblazer because it couldn't be answered by red removal. You know, interact with your opponent.
I want interactive magic. If all Dash Hopes is is a 5 damage burn spell (which is a good rate BTW) or Ethereal Armor just gives something +2/+2 and first strike, then I'm fine with that.
Last time I drafted my opponent put a Bequethal on one of his creatures so I wouldn't kill it. It was an interesting situation and he ended up using his card advantage hostage to force a bunch of damage through. That's the kind of Magic that I want to play.
I know that it's not a valid argument but look at most other Pauper cubes and you wont find dash hopes in there, now ask yourself why that is.
because they dont play interactive magic and dont have fun
dont hide something in spoiler tags lol, looks like your sig
not sure whether or not there are humans around that generally dislike sugar, but if i only got sweets all the time im pretty sure i would
Let's not dogpile on the fellow, my dudes. If you're getting that tingly feeling in your fingers that says it's time to post some drama, why not head over to the This or That discussion and help me make some cuts instead?
I played with Dash Hopes when it first appeared in Planar Chaos, and I loved the concept, despite getting burned on punishers with Browbeat before. I played it in black-counters.dec (alongside Withering Boon, Imp's Mischief and Muck Drubb). I played it in Rakdos burn. I played it in its original draft format, where it was theoretically designed to be played. It was bad. And I struggle to imagine a game environment where it would be playable. Maybe if your games started at 15 life or a Squadron Hawk pick where the player got multiples of the card just for drafting it. The kind of gymnastics you'd have to pull off to accommodate it aren't worth it, imo.
Dash Hopes is not some hidden gem that's gone overlooked for years. It might be a fun card, but it is not a good card. And that's tough to explain to someone without that person feeling like they're being personally attacked for their choice.
So if it floats your boat, by all means keep it. As a rule of thumb, if I'm soliciting feedback and at least two people tell me the same thing, I would at least consider where they're coming from and if it has merit. I don't feel obligated to make changes, but it helps to keep an open mind.
I know that it's not a valid argument but look at most other Pauper cubes and you wont find dash hopes in there, now ask yourself why that is.
I think this is absolutely a valid argument. It's usually used in reverse to find which cards are popular, though.
Part of my considerations in cube management are data-driven - and cubetutor's treasure trove of data has been a godsend in that regard. It only takes me a handful of clicks to get a good idea of what's currently popular or falling out of lists, when I had to manually go through cubelist threads on MTGSalvation before, or try to collate between the three different decklist databases that cubers used. I can't state enough how amazing of a data-gathering tool it is, even if it's trendy now to poop on its lack of updates or whatever. Point being, we have the tools to do this when we didn't before, and we have an actual place we can point to when we need hard data.
Let's not dogpile on the fellow, my dudes. If you're getting that tingly feeling in your fingers that says it's time to post some drama, why not head over to the This or That discussion and help me make some cuts instead?
I played with Dash Hopes when it first appeared in Planar Chaos, and I loved the concept, despite getting burned on punishers with Browbeat before. I played it in black-counters.dec (alongside Withering Boon, Imp's Mischief and Muck Drubb). I played it in Rakdos burn. I played it in its original draft format, where it was theoretically designed to be played. It was bad. And I struggle to imagine a game environment where it would be playable. Maybe if your games started at 15 life or a Squadron Hawk pick where the player got multiples of the card just for drafting it. The kind of gymnastics you'd have to pull off to accommodate it aren't worth it, imo.
Dash Hopes is not some hidden gem that's gone overlooked for years. It might be a fun card, but it is not a good card. And that's tough to explain to someone without that person feeling like they're being personally attacked for their choice.
So if it floats your boat, by all means keep it. As a rule of thumb, if I'm soliciting feedback and at least two people tell me the same thing, I would at least consider where they're coming from and if it has merit. I don't feel obligated to make changes, but it helps to keep an open mind.
I know that it's not a valid argument but look at most other Pauper cubes and you wont find dash hopes in there, now ask yourself why that is.
I think this is absolutely a valid argument. It's usually used in reverse to find which cards are popular, though.
Part of my considerations in cube management are data-driven - and cubetutor's treasure trove of data has been a godsend in that regard. It only takes me a handful of clicks to get a good idea of what's currently popular or falling out of lists, when I had to manually go through cubelist threads on MTGSalvation before, or try to collate between the three different decklist databases that cubers used. I can't state enough how amazing of a data-gathering tool it is, even if it's trendy now to poop on its lack of updates or whatever. Point being, we have the tools to do this when we didn't before, and we have an actual place we can point to when we need hard data.
My thing with Dash Hopes is that whenever I bring the card up the, "Giving your opponent a choice" platitude is brought up repeatedly even though no one has even attempted to play the card and I'm proposing using it in a deck where either mode is workable.
Add to this being a part of a Pauper cube that's entire purpose is to be as fun, fair, and interactive as possible where I actively want to have the maximum amount of "interesting but merely okay" cards and that's why I'm reacting with such hostility.
My cube doesn't have much life gain and games tend to be slow midrange fiestas where fun, fair, interactive magic is played, so 5 life tends to be a big deal, and a single piece of countermagic (in black) can tip the scales. The most difficult thing about the spell is paying the double black cost in my cube when most decks tend to be 2 color, not utilizing it for its intended purpose.
T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t
http://www.cubetutor.com/visualspoiler/4832
T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t
Elimination of players was usually not a problem in my rounds. You just pair against the next guy who is free, no need to have some sort of swiss going.
T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t
Ignoring what Magic players say isn't the answer, it's listening to what they have to say and doing the exact opposite that's correct.
I drafted your cube
http://www.cubetutor.com/cubedeck/1042513
but the dev is too lazy to fix his site, so it always gets saved in his cube..
but regarding your question, its hard to tell how your cube plays since you run tons of weird cards decisions. Id say there are a lot of really bad cards in it, like Rot Wolf being the only Infect creature and other completely useless crap Kjeldoran Skycaptain?? Banding is a pretty awkward mechanic and the only somewhat reasonable creature is Benalish Hero Its also not a good design to add Peregrine Drake, but not Ghostly Flicker, since it sends the signal to the drafter the combo is included.
Only playtesting it will tell you what works and what not.
Its good to see you start your own approach and dislke styborskis pile of *****. that said, Othesemo cube made a lot more sense than yours and it looks you basically added like 30-40 commons from the mid 90s era. Those are nostalgic but close to unplayable
T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t
Hexproof isn't fun, so Rot Wolf took Silhana Ledgewalker's spot as a Voltron creature. Infect isn't fun either, so that's why it's the only infect card in the cube. It's mainly there to force your opponent to give you free card draw and to give green a more interactive Voltron creature than one with Hexproof.
The games with my cube tend to go long so 5 mana for a 2/2 with flying and first strike and banding seems fine. Past a certain point mana cost is irrelevant. That's why I have cards like Skinthinner, for example. 5 mana is hefty but morph is fun and you'll have enough time to get to play it.
Banding as a whole is decently useful and a solid pick for any white deck in my cube. I don't know why everyone has such an aversion to it, god forbid one has to read a paragraph or think.
Ghostly Flicker ruins the game and Peregrine Drake is still a free creature and worth playing without it. I want games to be interactive, not ruined by degeneracy.
I've only been playing Magic for a year, I don't have any nostalgia for certain cards. Usually it's just the way the art on the card looks or how the card functions. I really think Morph is cool, so that's why there are so many morph creatures in the cube.
Ignoring what Magic players say isn't the answer, it's listening to what they have to say and doing the exact opposite that's correct.
Maybe its because you play jut for a short period, but mana cost becomes never irrelevant, you want to have more plays a turn or bluff answers. Paying 5 for a 2/2 is huge tempoloss. You also want to have a reasonable mana curve in your deck.
I also doubt the games go that long, unless your playgroup is as unexperienced. RG Beatz for example looks pretty fast to me. http://www.cubetutor.com/cubedeck/1042880
Rot Wolf doesnt draw you cards, it gets ignored until you have 6-8 poison counters and then gets removed or chumped.
Peregrine Drake is pretty mediocre. And as said, it sends wrong signals.
A card can be nostalgic without being around at that time. Its just the flavor of the yesterdays that makes them interesting. We are playing paupercube and magic in general for a while here now and playtested a lot of cards. Many of the cards you run dont work, at least not in the general poweroriented and not even neccessarily in the archetype driven ones. As you see in my sig, i have both approaches.
That said, I think its always cool to see something different, but right now your cube looks quite unbalanced. You run a lot of the powerful cards as well as the packfiller. Maybe you want to try to build an old school pauper cube with only the old frame? Or start there and then add more modern cards on the same powerlevel and bring more depths into some mechanics like morph. I dont think it works well the other way around (starting with a modern powerlevel and water it down with the old school stuff)
T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t
Humphrey is right about banding and infect though. If I had to level one criticism at banding, aside from the (in)comprehension issues and time issues it brings up, it is this: Magic is a game which already comes with a defender's advantage (the defender chooses what to block, how many creatures to block with, how to most efficiently block to maximize trades, etc). Banding takes that advantage and amplifies it to a point where it messes with the game's flow. It bogs the game down because, instead of the constant flow of back-and-forth, attack-defend-counterattack that the game encourages (and this in-game dynamic is so incredibly sophisticated that most of us players never really notice or think about it when it's working smoothly) banding almost completely removes any incentive to attack by making combat math difficult or even impossible to solve for the attacker, thus discouraging one of the most basic avenues to victory in the game.
What's interesting to me is that a mechanic which is kind of the reverse (provoke) hasn't made a comeback either (I notice you have more provoke creatures than average in your list). I'm a big fan of this mechanic and I keep hoping it'll make a comeback in a more efficient or fixed form.
At any rate, it looks like you really like things that can mess with combat math. Have you considered other ways to mess with combat? I know certain cubes (used to?) run Infantry Veteran. Other stuff like Heavy Ballista. Maybe more creatures that can self-pump like Ursine Champion or Knight of the Skyward Eye? Black has several Looming Shade-like cards. Oh yeah - the Kor creatures from Tempest block were essentially fixed banding, now that I think about it. If you like banding, you would probably like Nomads en-Kor and Spirit en-Kor. Zealous Inquisitor is a similar card. I also have Lancers en-Kor and Warrior en-Kor on my personal shortlist of cards I think will be downshifted eventually.
RE: Rot Wolf - Green gets its card advantage through ramp like Cultivate and Skyshroud Claim, or pump like Wildsize and Sylvan Might. Rot Wolf almost seems worse than Generous Stray, since the cat gives you a card up-front and threatens the opponent better than what is essentially a 0/2 on offense for four turns until it morphs into a 20/2 (I can see how you could use Rot Wolf defensively to discourage small attackers or as pseudo-removal for bigger creatures though). In a magical world, you could just slap Elephant Guide on it and swing twice. I don't know if things usually work out that well in regular games, but I guess if you or your fellow drafters like the all-in, win-or-lose-with-one-play approach, you can have at it. Consider creatures like Wandering Wolf or Aura Gnarlid that also benefit from the Voltron theme without using a parasitic mechanic like infect or being too obnoxious like hexproof.
Thanks for putting up the list - it's definitely interesting to see how a newer player might approach a cube and why. There's some things that kind of go against common knowledge, but it's also a way for viewers to rethink why we do things a certain way.
P.S. I'm really curious how Ghostly Flicker "ruins the game" for you. In my experience, it's usually just an okay value pick that goes into Ux blink/value decks, the same way that Momentary Blink does.
My Cube (DeckStats)
My Pauper Cube: 540 (CubeTutor link!)
Level 1 Judge
1.) The cube has too much removal. My ASFAN for removal is 2.875 btw.
2.) Big dumb Gruul Beaters might be too good and you're not going to be able to get to play Kjeldoran Skycaptain or other overcosted creatures.
3.) Banding buffs defending too much, when defending already grants you an inherent advantage.
4.) Blue is underpowered. Meanwhile another player is beating my face in with Mulldrifter and Nimbus Naiad and Peregrine Drake.
So it seems to me that it's fairly balanced, lol.
My cube games are weird. It's a 360 sized cube, but most of my drafts are only with 4 people. So even if something is OP you only get to see half the cube.
My issue with Ghostly Flicker is that it utterly ruins constructed Pauper. Any sort of fun, fair, interactive midrange deck in Pauper gets absolutely crushed by infinite flicker loops. It loops infinitely with Mnemonic Wall and Pulse of Murasa and Haunted Fengraf and Moment's Peace and Mystical Teachings and Mulldrifter and whatever other already superb cards and breaks the game. Despite what the online tournament data tells you, Tron is the best deck in Pauper. Nothing stops it besides for super fast aggro and even then it's only a 60/40 at best. With Fire & Ice being downshifted in UMA Tron may even have the advantage now. I just don't want it in my cube. Mulldrifter is already worth first pick hate drafting, so I don't see the need to buff it any further.
To be frank, Tron players and Combo players don't actually like playing Magic, just getting free wins and playing uninteractive solitaire with godmode enabled. That's been my experience with X-Wing Miniatures and Magic has been no different. I prefer to instead play fun, fair, interactive Magic and I want my cube to reflect that.
For example, the last time I drafted my opponent morphed a creature in, and I had just added in a bunch more Morph creatures to the cube. I knew he had Ruthless Ripper, but I was struggling to remember what the others could be. So I used a Ray of Command on it so that I could look at it and it was a Haunted Cadaver, which would have blown me out. This knowledge allowed me to play around it. Eventually I lost to a Voltaic Servant with Vulshok Gauntlets and Nimbus Naiad.
That's extremely cool and is much more fun than getting flicker looped.
Your thoughts on Rot Wolf echo mine, that it prevents smaller creatures from attacking, it's a decent Voltron, and it can be used to wither bigger creatures in a pinch. With Green's access to ramp, they can afford to pay 3 mana for a 2/2 with some decent abilities. Even in a 1 for 1 trade it replaces itself, so if you trade it with another 2/2 it's a "one for zero". I've had success making it huge and playing a fight card with it.
I get some resistance for putting what I would consider to be "okay" cards in my cube but that's kind of the point. I want the games to be longer and more interesting and interactive. The fact that your opponent can interact with Dash Hopes and that they get to make the decision is the whole reason it's in the cube, that's fun.
Many people seem to view cube as a showcase of Magic's most powerful cards, which is a non-sequitur. I think that cube should instead be the showcase of the most fun Magic cards.
Ignoring what Magic players say isn't the answer, it's listening to what they have to say and doing the exact opposite that's correct.
I agree with everything you wrote above about banding, but the en-Kor are only "fixed" banding if banding needed to be better than it already was (on defense). The ones with an activation cost, maybe but the "0: redirect" creatures are stupid in that regard (although I believe OG banding stops trample while en-Kors do not).
but theyre not common yet
Greens has some card advantage cards in Citanul Woodreaders Snake Umbra Byway Courier
Hexproof btw is the meta adaption to the insane amount and efficieny of removal in powerdriven cubes. Its kinda unfun while also readding fun against removal.dec. And you can still balance them with enough deathtouch creatures.
And yeah Ghostly Flicker actually is a fair card. It adds to the "mess with combat" theme, while still fair and even the Peregrine combo takes so much time to assemble that its just a wincon for controldecks. Add some gy removal (its already there) like Faerie Macabre and you have answers.
T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t
Instead of having Degenerate Card A that requires Nuance-less Hard Counter Card B, why not just have neither and put 2 fun cards in the cube instead? Like more morph creatures or Time Ebb, for example.
Ignoring what Magic players say isn't the answer, it's listening to what they have to say and doing the exact opposite that's correct.
to put it in persepective i think the card is not even tier1 worthy and run the combo in my t2, although its pretty close.
its definitely not my definition of cancer.
If you dont like draw-go style decks or removal.dec you need to retweak you cube still a lot. Whether or not that leads to more "fun" its up to the playgroup though, since some like that gamestyle and quite a lot of "unfun" mechanics that got removed from magic over the years (land-destruction, efficient removal, efficient counters) didnt neccessarily add more depth to the game. Some would argue it took away a lot.
With threats + answers comes the interaction
T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t
My issue is with cards that fundamentally ruin the game. Flicker Loops are the very opposite of reciprocal action or influence.
Ignoring what Magic players say isn't the answer, it's listening to what they have to say and doing the exact opposite that's correct.
Meanwhile Id say Doom Blade is the much more boring card.
But thats just my personal preference I guess.
T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t
well cubes dont play like constructed and when you get a strong combo going many things must have done right leading to this (drafting, deck building and piloting, drawing all the combo pieces) and should be rewarded. Besides, Tron being pretty strong, its probably one of the hardest decks to play and usually im a guy that thinks a lot of "hard" decks are almost auto-pilot. maybe its because im unfamiliar with the meta and the deck, but its not a auto-win deck.
Regarding morph, many here came to the conclusion that morph is a little unfair for new players unless you have a list floating with the available morphs, since you know them all and they dont.
Everyone by the way has a different idea of fun. For some its the combat, or strong spells or combo or disruption and so on. At best your cube provides something for everyone, although thats pretty tough in pauper because of the limited complexity.
The critcs about "okay" cards come as i said not from running them per se, but in combination with "too strong" cards. An experienced drafter will ignore all the cute cards, pick the best and crush everyone that want to play the durdle deck. Balancing a cube takes a while.
T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t
Fun isn't subjective and everyone enjoys the same things when it comes to Magic. Everyone enjoys having player agency and if you rob that from someone they've objectively had less fun.
I suppose I could include Ghostly Flicker and leave out the ways to loop it infinitely, but naw. Mulldrifter is already good enough.
I just had person #5 tell me how out of control blue and black are in my cube. The cube seems pretty balanced to me.
Ignoring what Magic players say isn't the answer, it's listening to what they have to say and doing the exact opposite that's correct.
And Dash Hopes is either a counterspell or 5 damage. Neither of which are desirable even if you get to choose which one. Again, what's wrong?
And why does Ethereal Armor not make any sense? You can still make a Voltron with it, just not on a hexproof creature because hexproof is objectively not fun, just like fire is objectively painful or feces tastes objectively bad.
What's with everyone's aversion to playing fun, fair, interactive Magic? Dash Hopes is a fun card. Just because you're not breaking the game with it does not mean it's a terrible card.
Ignoring what Magic players say isn't the answer, it's listening to what they have to say and doing the exact opposite that's correct.
Checking your cube Armor seems borderline ok for the amount of enchantments you run. The goblin tribal doesnt work though, trust me Ive tried it ^^ You barely got enough playable goblins together, even if you force it in draft. And the amount of horrible goblins you (need to) run doesnt help there.
The problem comes when your definition of "fun" comes to a place where player draft to win. They will just ignore all those cards and you basically wasted precious cube space for junk. You might end as the only one playing those (and lose)
Dont feel yourself cornered though, you came to a place with experienced paupercubers and we are pretty tight when it comes to card quality, even though a bunch of us like the durdle games, the cards must be good.
Half the fun is playtesting it and readjusting it yourself. When I came here back then I also didnt follow any advices and did my own thing. But a lot of the advices I got turned out right
Here you can see what I started with in 2013: http://www.cubetutor.com/visualspoiler/4832
goblins tribal, sliver tribal,elf tribal, mill? bring it on
In the end, some cards that were considered bad became staple of my cube though, so it was worth it.
T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t
You can argue about how personal taste is subjective all you want but past a certain point you're just denying reality. At their core, humans are just brain chemistry. If you can say that fire is objectively painful, and that sugar tastes objectively good to humans, why couldn't one assert that other experiences like art or fun be objectively rated?
So yes, I am asserting that my view of what's fun is the correct one.
5 life is negligible at 20 life, sure. But not at 12 life. I've won two games with this card, I don't see the issue with it. It's a fun card with interaction built into it, I like those.
I seem to have enough enchantments to make Ethereal Armor worth it. I have a bunch of pacifisms and such. Just because you can't make a 30/30 first strike hexproof doesn't mean it's not worth playing. I took out Lagonna Band Trailblazer because it couldn't be answered by red removal. You know, interact with your opponent.
I want interactive magic. If all Dash Hopes is is a 5 damage burn spell (which is a good rate BTW) or Ethereal Armor just gives something +2/+2 and first strike, then I'm fine with that.
Last time I drafted my opponent put a Bequethal on one of his creatures so I wouldn't kill it. It was an interesting situation and he ended up using his card advantage hostage to force a bunch of damage through. That's the kind of Magic that I want to play.
Ignoring what Magic players say isn't the answer, it's listening to what they have to say and doing the exact opposite that's correct.
most humans like winning above everything else btw
T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t
No, there is nothing wrong. The list is objectively perfect.
My 490 Pauper Cube
Modern frame only- Common on paper only - no functional copies, no strictly-betters - no subtype-matters
because they dont play interactive magic and dont have fun
dont hide something in spoiler tags lol, looks like your sig
not sure whether or not there are humans around that generally dislike sugar, but if i only got sweets all the time im pretty sure i would
T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t
I played with Dash Hopes when it first appeared in Planar Chaos, and I loved the concept, despite getting burned on punishers with Browbeat before. I played it in black-counters.dec (alongside Withering Boon, Imp's Mischief and Muck Drubb). I played it in Rakdos burn. I played it in its original draft format, where it was theoretically designed to be played. It was bad. And I struggle to imagine a game environment where it would be playable. Maybe if your games started at 15 life or a Squadron Hawk pick where the player got multiples of the card just for drafting it. The kind of gymnastics you'd have to pull off to accommodate it aren't worth it, imo.
Dash Hopes is not some hidden gem that's gone overlooked for years. It might be a fun card, but it is not a good card. And that's tough to explain to someone without that person feeling like they're being personally attacked for their choice.
So if it floats your boat, by all means keep it. As a rule of thumb, if I'm soliciting feedback and at least two people tell me the same thing, I would at least consider where they're coming from and if it has merit. I don't feel obligated to make changes, but it helps to keep an open mind.
I think this is absolutely a valid argument. It's usually used in reverse to find which cards are popular, though.
Part of my considerations in cube management are data-driven - and cubetutor's treasure trove of data has been a godsend in that regard. It only takes me a handful of clicks to get a good idea of what's currently popular or falling out of lists, when I had to manually go through cubelist threads on MTGSalvation before, or try to collate between the three different decklist databases that cubers used. I can't state enough how amazing of a data-gathering tool it is, even if it's trendy now to poop on its lack of updates or whatever. Point being, we have the tools to do this when we didn't before, and we have an actual place we can point to when we need hard data.
My Cube (DeckStats)
My Pauper Cube: 540 (CubeTutor link!)
Level 1 Judge
My thing with Dash Hopes is that whenever I bring the card up the, "Giving your opponent a choice" platitude is brought up repeatedly even though no one has even attempted to play the card and I'm proposing using it in a deck where either mode is workable.
Add to this being a part of a Pauper cube that's entire purpose is to be as fun, fair, and interactive as possible where I actively want to have the maximum amount of "interesting but merely okay" cards and that's why I'm reacting with such hostility.
My cube doesn't have much life gain and games tend to be slow midrange fiestas where fun, fair, interactive magic is played, so 5 life tends to be a big deal, and a single piece of countermagic (in black) can tip the scales. The most difficult thing about the spell is paying the double black cost in my cube when most decks tend to be 2 color, not utilizing it for its intended purpose.
Ignoring what Magic players say isn't the answer, it's listening to what they have to say and doing the exact opposite that's correct.