Bottle gnomes seems pretty bad to me. 1/3 for 3 mana is pretty awful, there are not even a lot of 2 drops it can block without dying, or even trade with. And just about everything that costs 3 or more mana runs it over. 3 life is not enough to redeem that
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Bottle gnomes seems pretty bad to me. 1/3 for 3 mana is pretty awful, there are not even a lot of 2 drops it can block without dying, or even trade with. And just about everything that costs 3 or more mana runs it over. 3 life is not enough to redeem that
It was a lot stronger before M10. Same as Mogg Fanatic and other sack to do something cards.
I still run it as a way for non-W control to buy a turn or two from aggro, or for others to have a SB plan against aggro. It is not the greatest, but it fills a hole.
The thing is gnomes isn't even especially great against aggro, just acceptable. And pretty bad against anything else.
1/3 is just really crappy stats, no way around it. You're being assailed by 1R 3/2s, 1G wild mongrel/snapping gnarlid, 1W and 1U 2/1 fliers. It can only really do anything if your opponent plays a lot of non-evasive X/1s.
You honestly might be better off with gut shot as a colorless sideboard slot
everytime i see bottle gnomes i think theyre awesome, because back in the day they were nuts. but theyre crap. if we still had damage on stack they might be an option.
I haven't really seen a pauper cube on stream, so it's noteworthy that Loading Ready Run did a stream of a pauper cube recently and figured it'd be posting here, despite thoughts on the cube featured (Adam's) due to seeing one on stream.
I'm kinda eh on Bottle Gnomes myself as well. Usually felt pretty slow and even the more artifacty/metalcrafty decks didn't really want a lot to do with it (although that was its most prominent application.) I've ran Wall of Tanglecord as an artifact creature (not in green) and I think that's saved more life in most games/MUs than Bottle Gnomes.
despite thoughts on the cube featured (Adam's) due to seeing one on stream.
I know Adam's cube gets a lot of flak on this forum, but even if many of the people here (me included) have much different cube design philosophies and card evaluations than him, there's no denying how much he's done to promote pauper cube.
On the Bottle Gnomes question, I agree with the consensus here. It's really not been that great. On a more general note, at this point, I hope artifacts gets some help soon; as the rest of the cardpool has become much more streamlined in the last couple of years, the artifact section really hasn't kept up. I'm hoping that with Kaladesh being an artifact-heavy plane that we get some more supporth ere.
On a more general note, at this point, I hope artifacts gets some help soon; as the rest of the cardpool has become much more streamlined in the last couple of years, the artifact section really hasn't kept up. I'm hoping that with Kaladesh being an artifact-heavy plane that we get some more support here.
This is part of why I play Bottle Gnomes (and I admit its a bit of a pet card for me). I really want to see a non parasitic minor artifact theme in cube. Even if that isn't likely to happen, at the very least we need some more good artifacts that aren't equipment.
On a more general note, at this point, I hope artifacts gets some help soon; as the rest of the cardpool has become much more streamlined in the last couple of years, the artifact section really hasn't kept up. I'm hoping that with Kaladesh being an artifact-heavy plane that we get some more support here.
This is part of why I play Bottle Gnomes (and I admit its a bit of a pet card for me). I really want to see a non parasitic minor artifact theme in cube. Even if that isn't likely to happen, at the very least we need some more good artifacts that aren't equipment.
I put my hopes in Kaladesh. I'm also thinking abozt supporting a artifact theme.
I mostly just want enough artifacts to make Glassdust Hulk playable in some sort of artifact / flicker deck, and maybe Cranial Plating. If they print some other good payoff cards that would be cool too. Definitely looking forward to what Kaladesh has to offer.
I haven't really seen a pauper cube on stream, so it's noteworthy that Loading Ready Run did a stream of a pauper cube recently and figured it'd be posting here, despite thoughts on the cube featured (Adam's) due to seeing one on stream.
I'm kinda eh on Bottle Gnomes myself as well. Usually felt pretty slow and even the more artifacty/metalcrafty decks didn't really want a lot to do with it (although that was its most prominent application.) I've ran Wall of Tanglecord as an artifact creature (not in green) and I think that's saved more life in most games/MUs than Bottle Gnomes.
thanks for sharing, but man this cube is so bad. its definitely fun for someone who never played a paupercube before, but for the experienced player it just sucks. removed rolling thunder and fireball for balance reasons, so you cant come back when the board is flooded. seems reasonable. not. but running strip mine, maze and mishras.. yeah.
on top the cube is full of unplayable last picks.
I agree 50%. I too took out most Backbreaker Spells. My cube gets more than 2 player action, maybe twice or so a year. I do not want those times dominated by who lucked into the Fireball, or who opened the Capsize.
I am not disagreeing that they are no some of the best examples, and own them if we ever need a Power Cube. But I do not run Strip Mine nor Maze of Ith. I see little point, but "if you got 'em, run 'em". I was running the Mishra Factory, was not ever really that impressed. Quicksand leaves a better impression.
I'm supporting a little artifact package and it's going well so far. The archetype is mainly UW, and then you can splash red or black for some off-color removals if you need.
I agree 50%. I too took out most Backbreaker Spells. My cube gets more than 2 player action, maybe twice or so a year. I do not want those times dominated by who lucked into the Fireball, or who opened the Capsize.
I am not disagreeing that they are no some of the best examples, and own them if we ever need a Power Cube. But I do not run Strip Mine nor Maze of Ith. I see little point, but "if you got 'em, run 'em". I was running the Mishra Factory, was not ever really that impressed. Quicksand leaves a better impression.
I cant remember a single game were capsize really sealed the deal. its more like a win-more in an already lost battle. way too slow for tweaked cubes and/or rewarding a good control build. fireball is totally fine, because it costs a lot to kill more than 2 creatures and Pyrotechnics or Arc Lightning is always better. I can see reasons to cut Rolling Thunder in a slow environment, but on the other hand slow environments run beefy creatures. Removing all X-spells just gimps control and make games long and boring.
Removing all big spells basically just takes out winoptions for control, removes this archetype and forces everyone into midrange. A good cube supports all strategies and buffs aggro to the point it beats control. Not talking about synergy cubes here, aggro/midrange/control scheme doesnt really apply there, but Styborskis cube has no deep archetypes either.
And of course I hate stretching the rules based on hearsaying of some wotc employee in a car ride. wtf.
Some very good points in there. I may take a long weekend some month and really deliberate over my aggro/control balance. I will say though... we do not have many "pro players" blogging about Cube. This is both good and bad.
The main bad is that Adam's cube is all but an authority on a starting point. I will not argue theory, execution, etc here. Suffice to say I respect the 'office'. Maybe we do need to stream/vlog more to exemplify what is happening within our community's thought process; as well as the effect.
But, to pat myself on the back, I lowered the power of my only physical cube. I did so for some reasons I mentioned above, but the title "Enjoyment Cube" says what the intention is and the purpose. I will agree on that account that the Cube he has now is very wishy-washy about its "guidelines"
Finally got around to making a thread for my Formerly Pauper cube and updating my cubetutors, just making this post here as shameless self-promotion in the event anyone is curious about it.
I agree 50%. I too took out most Backbreaker Spells. My cube gets more than 2 player action, maybe twice or so a year. I do not want those times dominated by who lucked into the Fireball, or who opened the Capsize.
I am not disagreeing that they are no some of the best examples, and own them if we ever need a Power Cube. But I do not run Strip Mine nor Maze of Ith. I see little point, but "if you got 'em, run 'em". I was running the Mishra Factory, was not ever really that impressed. Quicksand leaves a better impression.
I cant remember a single game were capsize really sealed the deal.
I remember in a slow pauper cube that I used to draft years ago (where aggressive decks were abysmal,) Capsize was absurdly powerful.
Regarding the exposure thing, although I don't write for SCG anymore and therefore don't really have the "reach" that I used to, I still try to talk about pauper cube a good amount, since it's something I've recently put more effort and thought into nowadays (lately most of the time when I'm on here, it's usually lurking this subforum.)
Yeah with the normalization of power level among commons in recent sets, former backbreakers like Capsize and even Sprout Swarm are less likely to dominate a game on their own. The way I describe it when asked about them by some of my drafters who might remember them in their own limited formats, is that yes those cards will often close out a game, but it's gotten increasingly hard for the game to get to that point by accident. Sprout Swarm can still take over a board, sure, but just casting Capsize every turn is often not going to be enough without some backup from the rest of the deck and some work done during deck construction and drafting to enable it. Having a stallbreaker like that available is important for a control deck since the inevitability tools a lot of higher power cubes have, like planeswalkers or what have you, just don't exist at common. Dropping them for power concerns is honestly a mistake, i feel.
Yeah with the normalization of power level among commons in recent sets, former backbreakers like Capsize and even Sprout Swarm are less likely to dominate a game on their own. The way I describe it when asked about them by some of my drafters who might remember them in their own limited formats, is that yes those cards will often close out a game, but it's gotten increasingly hard for the game to get to that point by accident. Sprout Swarm can still take over a board, sure, but just casting Capsize every turn is often not going to be enough without some backup from the rest of the deck and some work done during deck construction and drafting to enable it. Having a stallbreaker like that available is important for a control deck since the inevitability tools a lot of higher power cubes have, like planeswalkers or what have you, just don't exist at common. Dropping them for power concerns is honestly a mistake, i feel.
+1
Exactly, those cards are still winoptions for controlshells, but wont work in each deck you draft.
In my cube/playgroup Sprout Swarm for example is the no1 wincon in UB control with only one or two green sources splash for Swarm. But in most other decks its way too slow to do anything. And Capsize is often not played by anyone. Its probably only still in my tier1 cube because of its powerlevel years ago and it would feel really wrong to put it in my tier2, where it might belong. (You need 8-12 mana to actually advance the board position)
I also agree with the above regarding the buyback cards. They see some play in my cube, but they're really not the role players they used to be and they don't get picked that highly. Capsize sees some play in tempo-control decks, and sprout swarm mainly sees play in ramp decks (which aren't too common to begin with because ramp just isn't in a great place right now). I think the main issue with buyback's viability is just that aggro-tempo and midrange decks are so strong that slower decks need to prioritize more efficient cards to stabilize and turn around the game.
dont forget, people learned to play around capsize. like saccing or destroying the creature in response, so capsize fizzles and goes to grave or waiting and playing multiple threats in one turn
I honestly think people explicitly supporting aggressive strategies has made cards like Capsize weaker, as people can't take for granted that they can get to the stage of the game where Capsize lock = gg anymore (or at least, anywhere near as much) moreso than learning to play around it.
Nope, but it doesn't provide any value to you until turn 4, and that is assuming you wasted turn 3 fetching for a basic. If you are wasting your third turn to fix your mana, the game is probably going very poorly for you.
Knowledge is power, money is power, time is money, you are actually gaining time by reading my posts
Click here and check out my Formerly Pauper Cube.
check out my EDH and Pauper EDH decks here
It was a lot stronger before M10. Same as Mogg Fanatic and other sack to do something cards.
Add Guardian Automaton for a convient anti-aggro package.
Loose Change Pauper Cube-cast
Pauper Cube Article #1
Pauper Cube Article #2
Personal Enjoyment Cube
1/3 is just really crappy stats, no way around it. You're being assailed by 1R 3/2s, 1G wild mongrel/snapping gnarlid, 1W and 1U 2/1 fliers. It can only really do anything if your opponent plays a lot of non-evasive X/1s.
You honestly might be better off with gut shot as a colorless sideboard slot
Knowledge is power, money is power, time is money, you are actually gaining time by reading my posts
Click here and check out my Formerly Pauper Cube.
check out my EDH and Pauper EDH decks here
T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t
I'm kinda eh on Bottle Gnomes myself as well. Usually felt pretty slow and even the more artifacty/metalcrafty decks didn't really want a lot to do with it (although that was its most prominent application.) I've ran Wall of Tanglecord as an artifact creature (not in green) and I think that's saved more life in most games/MUs than Bottle Gnomes.
I used to write cube articles on StarCityGames, now for GatheringMagic and podcast about cube (w/Antknee42.)
I know Adam's cube gets a lot of flak on this forum, but even if many of the people here (me included) have much different cube design philosophies and card evaluations than him, there's no denying how much he's done to promote pauper cube.
On the Bottle Gnomes question, I agree with the consensus here. It's really not been that great. On a more general note, at this point, I hope artifacts gets some help soon; as the rest of the cardpool has become much more streamlined in the last couple of years, the artifact section really hasn't kept up. I'm hoping that with Kaladesh being an artifact-heavy plane that we get some more supporth ere.
This is part of why I play Bottle Gnomes (and I admit its a bit of a pet card for me). I really want to see a non parasitic minor artifact theme in cube. Even if that isn't likely to happen, at the very least we need some more good artifacts that aren't equipment.
I put my hopes in Kaladesh. I'm also thinking abozt supporting a artifact theme.
Or are you interested in a Fiora flavor cube? Conspire and win!
Level 2 Judge
thanks for sharing, but man this cube is so bad. its definitely fun for someone who never played a paupercube before, but for the experienced player it just sucks. removed rolling thunder and fireball for balance reasons, so you cant come back when the board is flooded. seems reasonable. not. but running strip mine, maze and mishras.. yeah.
on top the cube is full of unplayable last picks.
T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t
I am not disagreeing that they are no some of the best examples, and own them if we ever need a Power Cube. But I do not run Strip Mine nor Maze of Ith. I see little point, but "if you got 'em, run 'em". I was running the Mishra Factory, was not ever really that impressed. Quicksand leaves a better impression.
Loose Change Pauper Cube-cast
Pauper Cube Article #1
Pauper Cube Article #2
Personal Enjoyment Cube
http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/17954
I cant remember a single game were capsize really sealed the deal. its more like a win-more in an already lost battle. way too slow for tweaked cubes and/or rewarding a good control build. fireball is totally fine, because it costs a lot to kill more than 2 creatures and Pyrotechnics or Arc Lightning is always better. I can see reasons to cut Rolling Thunder in a slow environment, but on the other hand slow environments run beefy creatures. Removing all X-spells just gimps control and make games long and boring.
Removing all big spells basically just takes out winoptions for control, removes this archetype and forces everyone into midrange. A good cube supports all strategies and buffs aggro to the point it beats control. Not talking about synergy cubes here, aggro/midrange/control scheme doesnt really apply there, but Styborskis cube has no deep archetypes either.
And of course I hate stretching the rules based on hearsaying of some wotc employee in a car ride. wtf.
T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t
The main bad is that Adam's cube is all but an authority on a starting point. I will not argue theory, execution, etc here. Suffice to say I respect the 'office'. Maybe we do need to stream/vlog more to exemplify what is happening within our community's thought process; as well as the effect.
But, to pat myself on the back, I lowered the power of my only physical cube. I did so for some reasons I mentioned above, but the title "Enjoyment Cube" says what the intention is and the purpose. I will agree on that account that the Cube he has now is very wishy-washy about its "guidelines"
Loose Change Pauper Cube-cast
Pauper Cube Article #1
Pauper Cube Article #2
Personal Enjoyment Cube
here tis -----> http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/the-cube-forum/cube-lists/721201-the-formerly-pauper-cube-that-weird-cube-with-five <-----
Knowledge is power, money is power, time is money, you are actually gaining time by reading my posts
Click here and check out my Formerly Pauper Cube.
check out my EDH and Pauper EDH decks here
My singleton Masters Cube
Honestly, I haven't either, since rebooting my pauper cube about a year ago, I've yet to see a deck with Capsize 3-0 a draft (and Fireball only has once.)
I remember in a slow pauper cube that I used to draft years ago (where aggressive decks were abysmal,) Capsize was absurdly powerful.
Regarding the exposure thing, although I don't write for SCG anymore and therefore don't really have the "reach" that I used to, I still try to talk about pauper cube a good amount, since it's something I've recently put more effort and thought into nowadays (lately most of the time when I'm on here, it's usually lurking this subforum.)
I used to write cube articles on StarCityGames, now for GatheringMagic and podcast about cube (w/Antknee42.)
Level 1 Judge
+1
Exactly, those cards are still winoptions for controlshells, but wont work in each deck you draft.
In my cube/playgroup Sprout Swarm for example is the no1 wincon in UB control with only one or two green sources splash for Swarm. But in most other decks its way too slow to do anything. And Capsize is often not played by anyone. Its probably only still in my tier1 cube because of its powerlevel years ago and it would feel really wrong to put it in my tier2, where it might belong. (You need 8-12 mana to actually advance the board position)
T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t
T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t
I used to write cube articles on StarCityGames, now for GatheringMagic and podcast about cube (w/Antknee42.)
Or are you interested in a Fiora flavor cube? Conspire and win!
Level 2 Judge