I don't think that Lightning Bolt is that problematic when removing strictly worse cards. I don't run any burn spells in my cube that are strictly worse than Lightning Bolt; however, there are very few burn spells I would pick over Lightning Bolt. I think Rolling Thunder is the only one I would consider P1P1 over Bolt. Incinerate does come really close to being strictly worse than Lightning Bolt, as regeneration only matters in extreme corner cases.
Sorry, I was unclear. I think that Lightning Bolt is actually a great thing to have in a no-strictly-betters cube, because it cuts out a huge mass of burn from consideration that otherwise might be too dominant, so it sort of saves you from the problem of having too much burn in a very neat way. I've actually ended up cutting Incinerate for just the reason you describe.
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Anybody here tried Charm Peddler? It's like a bad Mother of Runes, it turns every card in your hand into a protection spell.
0-1 when played but 1-1 on every interaction afterwards. Also it targets your creature, not the source of the damage, so it would work against hexproof/shroud
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Holiday Armadillo... Cloak
My 490 Pauper Cube
Modern frame only- Common on paper only - no functional copies, no strictly-betters - no subtype-matters
I'm wondering if sunscape familiar might be a good inclusion for the ghostly flicker deck. It blocks and sort-of makes mana. Wall of roots style. 0/3 is barely usable though. 1/3 or 0/4 would have been appreciated.
Is there any way to tag users in posts? I know runner is a big fan of ghostly flicker.
It's probably win-more, since if you set up the combo you're probably winning, but it lets you flicker more/keep mana up for other things. Also lets you play archaeomancer + flicker in the same turn for 5 mana, or mnemonic wall/scrivener/izzet chronarch + flicker at 6 mana
I'm wondering if sunscape familiar might be a good inclusion for the ghostly flicker deck. It blocks and sort-of makes mana. Wall of roots style. 0/3 is barely usable though. 1/3 or 0/4 would have been appreciated.
Is there any way to tag users in posts? I know runner is a big fan of ghostly flicker.
It's probably win-more, since if you set up the combo you're probably winning, but it lets you flicker more/keep mana up for other things. Also lets you play archaeomancer + flicker in the same turn for 5 mana, or mnemonic wall/scrivener/izzet chronarch + flicker at 6 mana
There's also nightscape familiar, but i see this deck more often in UW than UB and also I think 0/3 is better than a 1/1 with 2 mana regenerate
I actually prefer the UB version over the UW version and cube Nightscape Familiar. UB gains access to Cavern Harpy which lets you get incremental value while you find the pieces you need. And I find the ETB effects are generally better in the UB version as Bloodhunter Bat and Gray Merchant of Asphodel just kill your opponents, Faceless Butcher gets rid of their field, etc. going esper also gives the deck access to Blind Hunter which also kills them.
I actually prefer the UB version over the UW version and cube Nightscape Familiar. UB gains access to Cavern Harpy which lets you get incremental value while you find the pieces you need. And I find the ETB effects are generally better in the UB version as Bloodhunter Bat and Gray Merchant of Asphodel just kill your opponents, Faceless Butcher gets rid of their field, etc. going esper also gives the deck access to Blind Hunter which also kills them.
UB is definitely good too. But isn't the nightscape familiar's vanilla 1/1 body just terrible? You don't want to be leaving up regenerate mana any time in the first like, 6 turns. I haven't used either in pauper cube, but I think sunscape familiar could work just because at least a 0/3 can block 2 power creatures.
I have do some draft with my cube (still need some guildgate...) and one of the result is I feel green is lacking powerfull play. I have checked your list and I think my cube really need sprout swarm (and some other good creature) but it seems it still need a bit more.
Powerfull play is for exemple, merfolk looter + mnemonic wall and good blue spell (or black) + delve
If you find space for those and keep the ones you already have, green aggro will work.
Some things to get rid of might be elvish visionary wood elves and 1-2 other ramp cards, snake of the golden grove, and 1-2 of the fight spells. I also dislike swordwise centaurs color requirement.
Giant growth and groundswell are better than savage surge and hunger of the howlpack.
I don't know about your cube, but there are hardly any creatures in mine that can't evade or run over a vanilla 1/1. There's almost nothing it can block and trade with.
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The evasion from Stormscape Familiar allows you to maneuver a bit better, and without further mana investment. It's way more likely to chip away at life and chump a hit from anything you need it to. I like Sunscape in second place because the lack of power and staying in bolt range really hurt its long-term viability in a game. Plus green doesn't need the ramp that bad
I just counted through your cube and found 19 creatures, that would trade with a black 1/1, when they attack into it.
lol... only if you count stuff like mana elves, 1 drops, and tokens that you should feel bad about trading with. Or defensive creatures that an aggro deck wouldn't play.
it's really just
azorius arrester, blade of the sixth pride, daring skyjek
hand of silumgar, nezumi cutthroat, surrakar marauder
immolating souleater, generator servant
jungle lion, wild dogs, thornweald archer
and I guess half of sandsteppe outcast/ghirapur gearcrafter
Admittedly, the 0/3 sunscape familiar doesn't do that much better. There aren't a lot of creatures with less than 3 power that don't have evasion. I still prefer it to the 1/1 that regenerates for 2 mana.
@pyredream I don't see any familiar getting played outside of ghostlyflicker.dec, so one that doesn't reduce the cost of blue spells doesn't have much chance.
So everybody already knows Chainer's Edict/Beetleback Chief/Battle Screech are great uncommons that were printed common online only. I am considering finally cracking (even though I despise the idea) and adding then to my cube. My question is what are opinions on lesser known and not as good cards printed common online? Brindle Shoat, Exile, Goblin Commando, etc
So everybody already knows Chainer's Edict/Beetleback Chief/Battle Screech are great uncommons that were printed common online only. I am considering finally cracking (even though I despise the idea) and adding then to my cube. My question is what are opinions on lesser known and not as good cards printed common online? Brindle Shoat, Exile, Goblin Commando, etc
I don't want to but I'm gonna start building Pauper decks in real life and to do so it follows the online pauper metagame so I'm considering the cube to as well.
Best token generators, and you get Arrogant Wurm for the new run at Madness. Exile is only ok. 3cc to kill a non-White andnusually get 3-4 Life is meh. Totally playable, but not as backbreaking as Recumbent Bliss
To me the removal issue is more about redundancy than quality.
Too much removal is a problem, but even if you have GOOD removal, not having a lot of it can even things up, because you have to choose between a very good threat and a very good removal.
Supressing functional copies and strictly worse stuff really thins redundancy and allows to use a powerful pool that is not removal-heavy.
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My 490 Pauper Cube
Modern frame only- Common on paper only - no functional copies, no strictly-betters - no subtype-matters
The card design has more to do with the individual limited format wotc wants to create and isnt an overall design philosophy. In a formal full of CC6+ creatures like zendikar, you dont want CC2 removal around.
Although they said they want to make spells less powerful than those of the past, at the same time they made creatures much better, so Id expect strong removal sometime in the future. Like Lightning Bolt already was out of the coreset once and made it back for a period.
I dont get your problems with removal in cubes, though. I dont think there is "too much" removal. (At least as long as the creature count overall is ~50%) In the end it totally depends on the drafter what kind of deck he wants to play. So less removal only means you have to pick it early, if you want a lot.
Black, red, and white already have more removal than anyone could ever conceivably want at 360
You're not going to get anything more efficient than the top 15 removal spells we already have in each color, but the top removal spells we already have are insanely efficient so who cares
IMO we already have MORE efficient removal choices than anyone will ever need
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Im not playing normal limited, so i cant say much about the balance of the recent sets. But maybe they wanted theros to be about creature combat.
I agree with you, that they are experimenting with things, but I have the impression that it all boils down to MaRo´s wicked mind. That guy went totally insane at some point in the past and there is nobody who stops him. Game is more succesful than ever so he will continue to fck up gameplay for now.
Also with Singing Bell Strike and Oppressive Rays we got very good removals.
Magic has a long history of CC3 hard removal from Dark Banashing to Murder over Shackles to Oblivion Ring, also in blue and even green, so I think they already found the sweet spot of removal. Some editions had more efficient ones, some will have slower ones. Even last Zendikar had CC4 exile in black, which seems pretty efficient for that format.
I agree we have enough decent removal for 360, but never mind upgrades.
I agree we have enough decent removal for 360, but never mind upgrades.
The removal we have now is quite a bit better than "decent." Black and red have a plethora of instants and sorceries at CMC 2 or less that can remove a creature with toughness 3 or less, which is 90% of our creatures. There's dividable burn, removal with flashback, rebound, life gain, card advantage... the removal is pretty insane.
All I really want are cards that support the niche archetypes and synergies that are on the cusp of viability, like artifacts, enchantments, sacrifice, and self-mill/graveyard.
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For my taste, there never is enough burn. Give me more CC1 and CC2 Bolts
Im pretty sure there already is a very interesting and versatile graveyard centric cube possible. Its only I cant build it because I chose the Tier1/Tier2 route and the gy cube needs cards from both and a lot of Tier3 cards also.
Regarding the graveyard deck. Do you think Headless Skaab and Makeshift Mauler are good enough to give it a pump and to be chosen (in those decks) over other blue 3/4's?
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Holiday Armadillo... Cloak
My 490 Pauper Cube
Modern frame only- Common on paper only - no functional copies, no strictly-betters - no subtype-matters
Regarding the graveyard deck. Do you think Headless Skaab and Makeshift Mauler are good enough to give it a pump and to be chosen (in those decks) over other blue 3/4's?
I think they are very good if you can support them. A looter is usually enough to get them out on curve. But it also depends on your overall cube. With a lot of bounce effects, they become terrible.
http://www.cubetutor.com/visualspoiler/7023
360 Pauper Cube The Trinket Box
PDH Decks
Classic Pauper Decks
0-1 when played but 1-1 on every interaction afterwards. Also it targets your creature, not the source of the damage, so it would work against hexproof/shroud
My 490 Pauper Cube
Modern frame only- Common on paper only - no functional copies, no strictly-betters - no subtype-matters
you cube a lot of really weird cards but these are the ones I would pretty much never put in deck IMO
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check out my EDH and Pauper EDH decks here
Is there any way to tag users in posts? I know runner is a big fan of ghostly flicker.
It's probably win-more, since if you set up the combo you're probably winning, but it lets you flicker more/keep mana up for other things. Also lets you play archaeomancer + flicker in the same turn for 5 mana, or mnemonic wall/scrivener/izzet chronarch + flicker at 6 mana
without familiar --> with familiar
4 mana: 1 flicker --> 2 flickers
5 mana: 1 flicker --> 2 flickers
6 mana: 2 flickers --> 3 flickers
7 mana: 2 flickers --> 3 flickers
8 mana: 2 flickers --> 4 flickers
There's also nightscape familiar, but i see this deck more often in UW than UB and also I think 0/3 is better than a 1/1 with 2 mana regenerate
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Thanks. Do you have any suggestions as replacement for thous cards? Also i love the weirdness of goblin swine-rider.
nomads en-kor+Deftblade Elite
EDIT:
Also are the Bannerets cubeables?
360 Pauper Cube The Trinket Box
PDH Decks
Classic Pauper Decks
I actually prefer the UB version over the UW version and cube Nightscape Familiar. UB gains access to Cavern Harpy which lets you get incremental value while you find the pieces you need. And I find the ETB effects are generally better in the UB version as Bloodhunter Bat and Gray Merchant of Asphodel just kill your opponents, Faceless Butcher gets rid of their field, etc. going esper also gives the deck access to Blind Hunter which also kills them.
UB is definitely good too. But isn't the nightscape familiar's vanilla 1/1 body just terrible? You don't want to be leaving up regenerate mana any time in the first like, 6 turns. I haven't used either in pauper cube, but I think sunscape familiar could work just because at least a 0/3 can block 2 power creatures.
Green is a pretty good color for aggro and there are some good green aggro cards you're not playing
If you find space for those and keep the ones you already have, green aggro will work.
Some things to get rid of might be elvish visionary wood elves and 1-2 other ramp cards, snake of the golden grove, and 1-2 of the fight spells. I also dislike swordwise centaurs color requirement.
Giant growth and groundswell are better than savage surge and hunger of the howlpack.
Knowledge is power, money is power, time is money, you are actually gaining time by reading my posts
Click here and check out my Formerly Pauper Cube.
check out my EDH and Pauper EDH decks here
T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t
Knowledge is power, money is power, time is money, you are actually gaining time by reading my posts
Click here and check out my Formerly Pauper Cube.
check out my EDH and Pauper EDH decks here
My Cube (DeckStats)
My Pauper Cube: 540 (CubeTutor link!)
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lol... only if you count stuff like mana elves, 1 drops, and tokens that you should feel bad about trading with. Or defensive creatures that an aggro deck wouldn't play.
it's really just
azorius arrester, blade of the sixth pride, daring skyjek
hand of silumgar, nezumi cutthroat, surrakar marauder
immolating souleater, generator servant
jungle lion, wild dogs, thornweald archer
and I guess half of sandsteppe outcast/ghirapur gearcrafter
Admittedly, the 0/3 sunscape familiar doesn't do that much better. There aren't a lot of creatures with less than 3 power that don't have evasion. I still prefer it to the 1/1 that regenerates for 2 mana.
@pyredream I don't see any familiar getting played outside of ghostlyflicker.dec, so one that doesn't reduce the cost of blue spells doesn't have much chance.
Knowledge is power, money is power, time is money, you are actually gaining time by reading my posts
Click here and check out my Formerly Pauper Cube.
check out my EDH and Pauper EDH decks here
My 360 Pauper Cube
CubeTutor
My 360 Core Set Cube
CubeTutor
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T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t
My 360 Pauper Cube
CubeTutor
My 360 Core Set Cube
CubeTutor
Loose Change Pauper Cube-cast
Pauper Cube Article #1
Pauper Cube Article #2
Personal Enjoyment Cube
Too much removal is a problem, but even if you have GOOD removal, not having a lot of it can even things up, because you have to choose between a very good threat and a very good removal.
Supressing functional copies and strictly worse stuff really thins redundancy and allows to use a powerful pool that is not removal-heavy.
My 490 Pauper Cube
Modern frame only- Common on paper only - no functional copies, no strictly-betters - no subtype-matters
Although they said they want to make spells less powerful than those of the past, at the same time they made creatures much better, so Id expect strong removal sometime in the future. Like Lightning Bolt already was out of the coreset once and made it back for a period.
I dont get your problems with removal in cubes, though. I dont think there is "too much" removal. (At least as long as the creature count overall is ~50%) In the end it totally depends on the drafter what kind of deck he wants to play. So less removal only means you have to pick it early, if you want a lot.
T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t
You're not going to get anything more efficient than the top 15 removal spells we already have in each color, but the top removal spells we already have are insanely efficient so who cares
IMO we already have MORE efficient removal choices than anyone will ever need
Knowledge is power, money is power, time is money, you are actually gaining time by reading my posts
Click here and check out my Formerly Pauper Cube.
check out my EDH and Pauper EDH decks here
I agree with you, that they are experimenting with things, but I have the impression that it all boils down to MaRo´s wicked mind. That guy went totally insane at some point in the past and there is nobody who stops him. Game is more succesful than ever so he will continue to fck up gameplay for now.
Also with Singing Bell Strike and Oppressive Rays we got very good removals.
Magic has a long history of CC3 hard removal from Dark Banashing to Murder over Shackles to Oblivion Ring, also in blue and even green, so I think they already found the sweet spot of removal. Some editions had more efficient ones, some will have slower ones. Even last Zendikar had CC4 exile in black, which seems pretty efficient for that format.
I agree we have enough decent removal for 360, but never mind upgrades.
T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t
The removal we have now is quite a bit better than "decent." Black and red have a plethora of instants and sorceries at CMC 2 or less that can remove a creature with toughness 3 or less, which is 90% of our creatures. There's dividable burn, removal with flashback, rebound, life gain, card advantage... the removal is pretty insane.
All I really want are cards that support the niche archetypes and synergies that are on the cusp of viability, like artifacts, enchantments, sacrifice, and self-mill/graveyard.
Knowledge is power, money is power, time is money, you are actually gaining time by reading my posts
Click here and check out my Formerly Pauper Cube.
check out my EDH and Pauper EDH decks here
Im pretty sure there already is a very interesting and versatile graveyard centric cube possible. Its only I cant build it because I chose the Tier1/Tier2 route and the gy cube needs cards from both and a lot of Tier3 cards also.
T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t
My 490 Pauper Cube
Modern frame only- Common on paper only - no functional copies, no strictly-betters - no subtype-matters
I think they are very good if you can support them. A looter is usually enough to get them out on curve. But it also depends on your overall cube. With a lot of bounce effects, they become terrible.
T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t