Welcome to the Cube Forum, crma! As I always say when there's a newcomer, my signature has a lot of Pauper Cube Resources that this awesome forum has compiled. I'd totally suggest to check them out.
In recent news, I haven't been Pauper cubing as much as I want to. I've still got a few cards I need to get from recent updates. I'm hoping to get my cube 100% updated in terms of the real cards, as well as perhaps a new box and some card dividers and deckboxes to equip it, soon. Hopefully I'll be able to get a draft on soon and write a draftcap.
I know Condescend is better than most cards in the maindeck, but it doesn't really go with the strategy (of play lots of dudes, enough answers and some equipment). I'm still not sure about playing the Carnarium (but it does have synergy with both equipment, the looter and Scout), but I think playing the plains here is right. I could have actually dropped the Bracers and off-colour lands entirely (for Condescend) but I think the deck's reasonably consistent and works well with Bracers.
The worst card in the MD for the deck is probably Werebear because it's not that easy to get threshold and there are quite a few ways of getting the mana. Still, I think it probably works to the plan better than Condescend does (though it's a weaker card, so it may still be worse). I also wanted to get Naturalise in there but don't think it realistically makes the cut.
Wow. I love that deck. It's so solid, and in my favourite colour combination.
In any case, I probably would've cut the Rakdos Carnarium for a singleton Swamp. It turns on Opaline Bracers and is must easier to do with all your basic land search dudes.
I'd also support the Werebear > Ray of Command choice. A great card for a subpar one (now I should probably add Ray to my cube.)
The reasoning behind not running Ray of Command was that Ray of Command is not as good in an aggressive deck - but that's not very good reasoning as I agree it is much better than Werebear. Maybe I just ignored the card when I was deckbuilding, I agree it should be there.
I guess it makes sense running another basic instead of the Carnarium because it does indeed interact with more cards. I'm not really sure though - I like karoos in general and it interacts with Adventuring Gear. If I'd had something filling up the top of the curve, then the Karoo probably would be right, but probably swamp is better as it is. (Plains is definitely worth it because of Bant Panorama)
To anyone who has never built around Opaline Bracers, it is definitely worth it! If you resolve it at 4, or even 3, it just goes so far in winning. I actually drafted it today in a URg deck (had the UB karoo and some way of getting a plains, too), and it was well worth it. Also played a last pick Capsize though, but people were deliberately leaving it as a protest to how annoying the card was to play (on either side of the table, apparently).
I say Swamp because it's as irrelevant as a Mountain (both are only applicable to Opaline Bracers), and you already have a red source, so I'm just setting up the magnificent 5-point Bracer.
I don't really like Carnarium. As you say, your deck is aggressive, and Carnarium is tempo loss as well as tapping for only colorless mana most of the time. I don't really like that.
@crma
Opaline Bracers is a card that is better in some cubes than others, but is, regardless of cubes, a strong card that will benefit those who build around it (splashing a third or fourth color, for instance). It's not for everyone, but I agree with Rubin in that I am in freaking love with that card.
It's not highly drafted to be completely honest: it requires a particular kind of deck to be good (that's rather obvious) and it's quite rare that you have that kind of deck when it comes to picking a Bracers. Still, it's actually still decent in a deck that can reliably cast it for 2 and sometimes for 3, so it's good in almost any green deck or midrange deck.
When you've got in in the ideal deck, say GXy with one off colour basic and a few ways to get it, it's absolutely insane. Like, one of the most threatening cards in the entire cube.
I would definitely play it in your cube, though!
Oh, and I love condescend, but not in a deck like this - it can't really afford to keep mana open when it matters.
Ray of Command is actually better in a defensive deck. The best way to use it is to steal one of their attackers and trade it with another. Using it as a Threaten is pretty rare.
I took a look at the color requirements of my cube and noticed that black has way more than the other 4 colors.
White has 7 double W casting cost cards.
Blue has 8 double U casting cost cards.
Black has 15 double B casting cost cards.
Red has 6 double R casting cost cards.
Green has 9 double G casting cost cards.
All colors but black seem rather even. Do i have too many double B casting cost cards in my Cube ? If yes do you ahve any suggestions what to change ?
The double B casting costs only matters if you don't want that to be a feature of Black in the deck.
As it stands, players have to actively commit to Black to play it. No splashing for a few key Black spells. If you want to, you can further reinforce this by including spells that count the number of Swamps, B mana symbols, and so on. These spells tend to be rather good (Tentrils of Corruption, for instance) and reward players for committing heavily.
I just don't consider them as having a CMC. In my database that I use to keep track of my cube, though, I have them at 1/2CMC (Fireball/Rolling Thunder). It warps the final results but by such a tiny margin I'm fine with it.
Double casting costs do indeed change the nature of the draft - especially in Common Cube, the nature of drafting black. It's rather obvious how they do it - it makes it harder to splash black but stronger to go heavily black. However, the nature of black means that it's still a good splash colour (in that you're going to be more willing to splash for removal than for creatures).
I don't think it's a problem as such, but I do agree that there is such a thing as too many double cost cards. If you're going to cut some, make sure you only cut the ones that can be replaced by something with a similar power level - weakening the power of black is hardly going to make more people play it.
If I'm classifying it as part of the cube, I just put them in a separate category (CMC X). However, If I was to do some statistics about the cube, I'd probably rank each one differently. Like, X burn would probably set X at 5, Condescend and Repeal on average about 2, etc.
However, X=3 is a good general estimate.
So, commons from INN spoiled so far: Abbey Griffin: No ^^
Curse of the Bloody Tome: Nope. Stitched Drake: Seems great and well worth testing; very likely good enough. I'm not sure how often your own creatures are going to die in a deck that supports UU casting costs though. Stitcher's Apprentice: I really like this as a great stall card and response to removal. Just in general a sweet creature engine that will probably be the first target of removal. Given he's two mana, that's a good thing.
Bloodcrazed Neonate: Red needs some help at the 2 CMC part of its curve, so even though I'm not sold that this will connect the first time, it still seems like a very cubeworthy card. Village Ironsmith: Unreliable like all the werewolf cards, but I still like his potential. Definitely a test card since nobody really knows how these transform cards are going to fare yet. Fits curve well like above.
Moonmist: Not for us. Spidery Grasp: There's better options that don't cost 2 CMC, and although this isn't atrocious, it's far from cubeable. Travel Preparations: I don't think this is better than current G/W choices, especially because of Sorcery speed.
Wooden Stake: Not for us. Blazing Torch: This reprint at common should be good enough to make it in. More colourless removal!
Lol, I was just like, "Stitched Interloper? What?" But yeah, the Interloper is freaking amazing. This set is definitely going to be a really fast limited, which will hopefully give us awesome aggro creatures.
Nothing else (besides the other cards I named) really appeals to me.
Edit: Wait, I totally forgot, Stitcher's Apprentice seems interesting too. Testworthy, but I'm quite unsure about it.
What do you mean, Stitched Interloper? You saw nothing.. *shifty eyes* I'm still a fan of Blazing Torch, though. And actually, I reckon the Apprentice will be pretty good.
Drake, neonate, and interloper are certainties IMO. Don't think of drake as a 3 drop and it'll be a lot better. Play it late, and you can easily keep counter mana up. It's quite good for a control deck.
Neonate is amazing in an aggressive deck. Back him up with a little burn and you will end the game quickly.
I don't think Stitcher's Apprentice is very good for cube. It's an interesting effect, but it's only good if the sacrifice part gives you some kind of advantage. Cube has little "dies" or graveyard triggering stuff, so I don't see it being very good. At it's best it hoses pacifisms. At it's worst, you can upgrade your 1/1s into 2/2s. Hooray.
Village Ironsmith and Spidery Grasp both intrigue me. 3/1 first strikers for 2 are no joke, but 1/1 first strikers for 2 are pretty bad. Unlike Neonate, you can't use removal to make him insane, you just have to hope your opponent is control and lacks in 2/3 drops. Late game he's pretty safely a 3/1 first striker, though, and 3 power first strikers are somewhat hard to beat in pauper cube.
Spidery Grasp is a great trick, and fits what green is doing pretty well (midrange aggression). It lets you get the beats on while making sure you don't lose the race if your opponent started aggressive. Also, it's a good out to stuff like Errant Ephemeron. It's obviously not better than the premium pump (wildsize and vines), but it's probably better than a lot of other stuff.
Drake, neonate, and interloper are certainties IMO. Don't think of drake as a 3 drop and it'll be a lot better. Play it late, and you can easily keep counter mana up. It's quite good for a control deck.
Agree. And Drake's going to be a three drop a lot of the time, too.
I don't think Stitcher's Apprentice is very good for cube. It's an interesting effect, but it's only good if the sacrifice part gives you some kind of advantage. Cube has little "dies" or graveyard triggering stuff, so I don't see it being very good. At it's best it hoses pacifisms. At it's worst, you can upgrade your 1/1s into 2/2s. Hooray.
Agree.
Village Ironsmith and Spidery Grasp both intrigue me. 3/1 first strikers for 2 are no joke, but 1/1 first strikers for 2 are pretty bad. Unlike Neonate, you can't use removal to make him insane, you just have to hope your opponent is control and lacks in 2/3 drops. Late game he's pretty safely a 3/1 first striker, though, and 3 power first strikers are somewhat hard to beat in pauper cube.[quote]
I like it a lot. Seriously, if you get to attack with it even once as a 3/1 then you're doing well. It's actually really good on turn 2, especially on the play - I don't think it's very common to have a two two-drops or something similar, you'll get a few turns of being a 3/1.
[quote]Spidery Grasp is a great trick, and fits what green is doing pretty well (midrange aggression). It lets you get the beats on while making sure you don't lose the race if your opponent started aggressive. Also, it's a good out to stuff like Errant Ephemeron. It's obviously not better than the premium pump (wildsize and vines), but it's probably better than a lot of other stuff.
Yeah, I think it's a decent card. What I don't like about it is that it's pretty much only a combat trick - paying 3 to get 2 to the dome is terrible, even if you untap the creature. I don't really like pump in non-agressive decks, so maybe it won't really mesh well? Still, cool card.
Village Ironsmith... I'm just not sure how often it'll be Ironfang. I'll test it, but I'm sort of skeptical.
I don't like Spidery Grasp, but I can see it working. A better combat trick than most, if a bit expensive. I'm unsure if the cube has room for it but I'll try to find some.
The only two cards I will be playing as of now are bloodcrazed neophyte and vampire interloper. I'm always happy to include new cards to support these and both of these cards look decent (vampire interloper is pretty good actually). Blue is pretty tight for me, so I don't think i will be runnning the drake or the stitcher.
I think this is near cubeworthy. On the fence, really. I'll have to try it out.
It seems bad on the offense (they'll often use removal on it instead of your other dudes and they can just let damage through or chump block to stop it flipping), but quite good on the defense when they can't do much to stop you binning one of your creatures other than not attacking (which is a good deal, of course.)
The thing I like least about the card is its starting toughness - it'd be so much better as a 2/3, so it could actually attack (vigilance seems bad when it can only block 1/Xs and can't attack into anything but a single 1/X) and wouldn't die to actually every removal spell in the cube apart from Sunlance.
Yeah, I found the vigilance strange on a 4-drop 2/2. It's really going to be used in the defensive white decks that can potentially use it as a finisher, but again, it can very easily be killed even then. Seems like a lot of setup required just so you can use it as a finisher, which might not be worth it.
In recent news, I haven't been Pauper cubing as much as I want to. I've still got a few cards I need to get from recent updates. I'm hoping to get my cube 100% updated in terms of the real cards, as well as perhaps a new box and some card dividers and deckboxes to equip it, soon. Hopefully I'll be able to get a draft on soon and write a draftcap.
My Pauper Cube ♤ The Pauper Cube Thread Common Knowledge — 1 2
Guys, was doing some 75 card sealed today, what changes would you make to this list?
1 Ninja of the Deep Hours
1 Looter Il-Kor
1 Werebear
1 Thornweld Archer
1 Pestermite
1 Civic Wayfinder
1 Yavimaya Elder
1 Thalakos Scout
1 Shaper Parasite
1 Wild Leotau
1 Shimmering Glasskite
1 Blastoderm
1 Illusionary Forces
1 Preordain
1 Temporal Spring
1 Deep Analysis
1 Repeal
1 Narcolepsy
1 Adventuring Gear
1 Opaline Bracers
1 Serrated Arrows
1 Rakdos Carnarium
1 Izzet Boilerworks
1 Bant Panorama
1 Tranquil Thicket
1 Simic Growth Chamber
1 Plains
6 Forest
5 Island
1 Scuttlemutt
1 Ray of Command
1 Reclaim
1 Mwonvuli Acid-Moss
1 Naturalize
1 Spire Golem
1 Mysteries of the Deep
1 Bequeathal
1 Slash Panther
1 Groundswell
1000 Irrelevant stuff
The worst card in the MD for the deck is probably Werebear because it's not that easy to get threshold and there are quite a few ways of getting the mana. Still, I think it probably works to the plan better than Condescend does (though it's a weaker card, so it may still be worse). I also wanted to get Naturalise in there but don't think it realistically makes the cut.
Thoughts?
Draft it on Cubetutor!
In any case, I probably would've cut the Rakdos Carnarium for a singleton Swamp. It turns on Opaline Bracers and is must easier to do with all your basic land search dudes.
I'd also support the Werebear > Ray of Command choice. A great card for a subpar one (now I should probably add Ray to my cube.)
My Pauper Cube ♤ The Pauper Cube Thread Common Knowledge — 1 2
I guess it makes sense running another basic instead of the Carnarium because it does indeed interact with more cards. I'm not really sure though - I like karoos in general and it interacts with Adventuring Gear. If I'd had something filling up the top of the curve, then the Karoo probably would be right, but probably swamp is better as it is. (Plains is definitely worth it because of Bant Panorama)
To anyone who has never built around Opaline Bracers, it is definitely worth it! If you resolve it at 4, or even 3, it just goes so far in winning. I actually drafted it today in a URg deck (had the UB karoo and some way of getting a plains, too), and it was well worth it. Also played a last pick Capsize though, but people were deliberately leaving it as a protest to how annoying the card was to play (on either side of the table, apparently).
Draft it on Cubetutor!
I don't really like Carnarium. As you say, your deck is aggressive, and Carnarium is tempo loss as well as tapping for only colorless mana most of the time. I don't really like that.
@crma
Opaline Bracers is a card that is better in some cubes than others, but is, regardless of cubes, a strong card that will benefit those who build around it (splashing a third or fourth color, for instance). It's not for everyone, but I agree with Rubin in that I am in freaking love with that card.
My Pauper Cube ♤ The Pauper Cube Thread Common Knowledge — 1 2
It's not highly drafted to be completely honest: it requires a particular kind of deck to be good (that's rather obvious) and it's quite rare that you have that kind of deck when it comes to picking a Bracers. Still, it's actually still decent in a deck that can reliably cast it for 2 and sometimes for 3, so it's good in almost any green deck or midrange deck.
When you've got in in the ideal deck, say GXy with one off colour basic and a few ways to get it, it's absolutely insane. Like, one of the most threatening cards in the entire cube.
I would definitely play it in your cube, though!
Oh, and I love condescend, but not in a deck like this - it can't really afford to keep mana open when it matters.
Draft it on Cubetutor!
The double B casting costs only matters if you don't want that to be a feature of Black in the deck.
As it stands, players have to actively commit to Black to play it. No splashing for a few key Black spells. If you want to, you can further reinforce this by including spells that count the number of Swamps, B mana symbols, and so on. These spells tend to be rather good (Tentrils of Corruption, for instance) and reward players for committing heavily.
Personally, I see nothing wrong with this.
-paws
As a cube designer, when you're dealing with spells that have X in the casting cost, what what value do you usually assign to X?
I've been working on the idea that X = 3, but I feel like that might be skewing the "real" CMC of my Red (and to a lesser extent, Blue) too high.
-paws
My Pauper Cube ♤ The Pauper Cube Thread Common Knowledge — 1 2
I don't think it's a problem as such, but I do agree that there is such a thing as too many double cost cards. If you're going to cut some, make sure you only cut the ones that can be replaced by something with a similar power level - weakening the power of black is hardly going to make more people play it.
If I'm classifying it as part of the cube, I just put them in a separate category (CMC X). However, If I was to do some statistics about the cube, I'd probably rank each one differently. Like, X burn would probably set X at 5, Condescend and Repeal on average about 2, etc.
However, X=3 is a good general estimate.
Draft it on Cubetutor!
My Pauper Cube ♤ The Pauper Cube Thread Common Knowledge — 1 2
Draft it on Cubetutor!
So, commons from INN spoiled so far:
Abbey Griffin: No ^^
Curse of the Bloody Tome: Nope.
Stitched Drake: Seems great and well worth testing; very likely good enough. I'm not sure how often your own creatures are going to die in a deck that supports UU casting costs though.
Stitcher's Apprentice: I really like this as a great stall card and response to removal. Just in general a sweet creature engine that will probably be the first target of removal. Given he's two mana, that's a good thing.
Vampire Interloper: Score, a usually-identical Stormfront Pegasus for black with a sweet casting cost. Bit of a boost to black aggro.
Bloodcrazed Neonate: Red needs some help at the 2 CMC part of its curve, so even though I'm not sold that this will connect the first time, it still seems like a very cubeworthy card.
Village Ironsmith: Unreliable like all the werewolf cards, but I still like his potential. Definitely a test card since nobody really knows how these transform cards are going to fare yet. Fits curve well like above.
Moonmist: Not for us.
Spidery Grasp: There's better options that don't cost 2 CMC, and although this isn't atrocious, it's far from cubeable.
Travel Preparations: I don't think this is better than current G/W choices, especially because of Sorcery speed.
Wooden Stake: Not for us.
Blazing Torch: This reprint at common should be good enough to make it in. More colourless removal!
G Omnath, Locus of Mana G
=CUBE=
Pauper {360} 2013 REVIVAL UPDATE
Nothing else (besides the other cards I named) really appeals to me.
Edit: Wait, I totally forgot, Stitcher's Apprentice seems interesting too. Testworthy, but I'm quite unsure about it.
My Pauper Cube ♤ The Pauper Cube Thread Common Knowledge — 1 2
G Omnath, Locus of Mana G
=CUBE=
Pauper {360} 2013 REVIVAL UPDATE
Neonate is amazing in an aggressive deck. Back him up with a little burn and you will end the game quickly.
I don't think Stitcher's Apprentice is very good for cube. It's an interesting effect, but it's only good if the sacrifice part gives you some kind of advantage. Cube has little "dies" or graveyard triggering stuff, so I don't see it being very good. At it's best it hoses pacifisms. At it's worst, you can upgrade your 1/1s into 2/2s. Hooray.
Village Ironsmith and Spidery Grasp both intrigue me. 3/1 first strikers for 2 are no joke, but 1/1 first strikers for 2 are pretty bad. Unlike Neonate, you can't use removal to make him insane, you just have to hope your opponent is control and lacks in 2/3 drops. Late game he's pretty safely a 3/1 first striker, though, and 3 power first strikers are somewhat hard to beat in pauper cube.
Spidery Grasp is a great trick, and fits what green is doing pretty well (midrange aggression). It lets you get the beats on while making sure you don't lose the race if your opponent started aggressive. Also, it's a good out to stuff like Errant Ephemeron. It's obviously not better than the premium pump (wildsize and vines), but it's probably better than a lot of other stuff.
Agree. And Drake's going to be a three drop a lot of the time, too.
Agree.
Yeah, I think it's a decent card. What I don't like about it is that it's pretty much only a combat trick - paying 3 to get 2 to the dome is terrible, even if you untap the creature. I don't really like pump in non-agressive decks, so maybe it won't really mesh well? Still, cool card.
Draft it on Cubetutor!
I don't like Spidery Grasp, but I can see it working. A better combat trick than most, if a bit expensive. I'm unsure if the cube has room for it but I'll try to find some.
My Pauper Cube ♤ The Pauper Cube Thread Common Knowledge — 1 2
I think this is near cubeworthy. On the fence, really. I'll have to try it out.
My Pauper Cube ♤ The Pauper Cube Thread Common Knowledge — 1 2
It seems bad on the offense (they'll often use removal on it instead of your other dudes and they can just let damage through or chump block to stop it flipping), but quite good on the defense when they can't do much to stop you binning one of your creatures other than not attacking (which is a good deal, of course.)
The thing I like least about the card is its starting toughness - it'd be so much better as a 2/3, so it could actually attack (vigilance seems bad when it can only block 1/Xs and can't attack into anything but a single 1/X) and wouldn't die to actually every removal spell in the cube apart from Sunlance.
Draft it on Cubetutor!
My Pauper Cube ♤ The Pauper Cube Thread Common Knowledge — 1 2