I find comparing weird draw spells to Divination is a good way to gauge their power. I think I'd take divination over rhystic study. I get cards right now (especially if I need land drops) and it doesn't give my opponent the choice to not let me get cards. Also study is awful late game.
Study is always awful. All of the rhystic spells are trash. Bolt is slightly less trash but not enough to be better than other better cards, of which there are many. Study is popular because it's great in EDH, but that's an entirely different format.
I posted this in the Peasant Cube thread, but figured I'd repost it here since it's relevant to you guys as well.
So that card Cogwork Librarian that messes with drafts from the upcoming summer set Conspiracy has been confirmed to be common here: Announcing GVYJTHQXGR (Yes the article is all ciphered, but the card image is there. I can post the deciphered version if anyone wants).
I actually really like the idea of the drafting component but I'm really not interested in playing a card that in my cube that isn't actually playable in a deck. I don't think colorless Hill Giants are going to be breaking into my cube. I think you'd be better off making a house rule to alter your drafting procedure than actually playing this card.
Experience a Magic format where the intrigues begin long before the first spells are cast! Revolutionary new abilities impact every part of the play experience, starting with the draft itself.
Cogwork Librarian—One of the sixty new Magic cards in Conspiracy.
The first-ever multiplayer-focused booster set has new Magic cards with new mechanics that enhance multiplayer play. Returning favorites from throughout Magic's history round out the set and cultivate an environment of deception and treachery. The Magic:The Gathering–Conspiracy set is designed to be drafted with six to eight players who then split into groups of three or four players for free-for-all multiplayer games.
Number of Cards:210
Release Date:June 6, 2014
Three-letter abbreviation:CNS
Twitter Hashtag:#MTGCNS
Initial Concept and Game Design:Shawn Main (lead), Dan Helland, David Humpherys, Kenneth Nagle, and Matt Tabak
Final Game Design and Development:David Humpherys (lead), Dan Emmons, K. Joseph Huber, Sam Stoddard, and Gavin Verhey, with contributions from Matt Tabak
Languages:English, Japanese, Chinese Simplified
Available in:Booster Packs
Key Points:
Multiplayer Booster Draft Format
15 Card Booster Packs (MSRP $3.99) 36 Packs per Display
Black-Bordered Cards
Release event promo card at participating WPN locations.
The peasant people are talking about this, so I'm interested to hear what people here think. Thoughts on / experiences with Chandra's Outrage? I don't think most of us play it currently.
Yeah the forums have been acting up a bit, been reporting the bugs for a while now. Hopefully it'll get ironed out.
carrion feeder - Solid guy. A bit underrated but still just borderline. He grows over time which is cool. Not being able to block is huge though. Because of that he's only for aggro or some attacking midrange decks. I have him currently to support the Threachery effects in Red and to give Black some sac outlets as it's such a Black identity thing blightning - staple for BR aggro I think. I like it more than Morgue Burst anyway, which is a card I don't think really have many homes because it's only for the random BR attacking midrange deck and no one else. Blightning goes in that deck and aggro. sewn-eye drake - I don't like Shard guys for classification purposes and this one doesn't do enough for me to want to include him. Nactl gets a bye for being so good. wild might - That's pretty interesting. Punishes tapping out pretty hard which is the only time I really feel comfortable playing pump spells. I have cut almost all of my pump spells though. They're just not doing enough. Getting extra damage is their best use most of the time, but that opens you up to blowouts. They need unique situations to be good and are otherwise just ok. I'd rather have a creature most of the time. If I find my dudes are having trouble getting over high toughness guys, I'll consider this one.
Thanks for the reply dude
Feeder - would it see play in aggro decks in a cube without support for the "sacrifice deck?" (ie my cube)
Blightning - Is this really what aggro decks want? Mind rot is awful and flame jet is awful. I honestly have no idea how good blightning is in pauper cube. Blightning shone in standard jund decks because those decks were all about getting incidental card advantage while putting on pressure. I feel like pauper aggro decks don't really care about card advantage for card advantage's sake.
Also, morgue burst is strictly for BR control! I know it's overcosted but I still love it.
Sewn-eye drake: I guess my cube is unique in its lack of blue aggro support, because my UB decks would only run this if they were desperate for playables. Combat tricks pump spells are doing lots of good work over here.
Blightning - Is this really what aggro decks want? Mind rot is awful and flame jet is awful. I honestly have no idea how good blightning is in pauper cube. Blightning shone in standard jund decks because those decks were all about getting incidental card advantage while putting on pressure. I feel like pauper aggro decks don't really care about card advantage for card advantage's sake.
Also, morgue burst is strictly for BR control! I know it's overcosted but I still love it.
I think that train of thought (the cost of two cards added into one card) actually works heavily in favor of Blightning, especially when compared to Morgue Burst. Using their lowest cost scenarios:
Blightning = Mind Rot + Lava Spike. Essentially you come out ahead -1 mana than these effects would normally cost and it comes in one card instead of 2. Morgue Burst = Raise Dead + (given the color combination) would more often than not be Chain Lightning. You are essentially paying 4 more mana than you should for the same effects while getting the value of 2 cards instead of 1.
I'm also with Al in that Mind Rot is actually a playable spell. Discard spells have always been solid in aggro strategies. Denying your opponent resources is a great way for you to falter your opponents curve/ability to deal with your curve. They have to decide between discarding their lands or the cards they were going to cast with those lands that they decided to keep. It's still a +1 in card advantage on your opponent even though it does not directly affect the board state. Tack on a "free" Lava Spike and you've got your self an incredibly solid card.
carrion feeder I did cut this card and put it into Tier2, because I have a sactheme there. Sometimes its really great, when youre able to fizzle Capsize or the like. But often its just a 1/1 or 2/2 cant block, and youll lose against aggro quickly.
blightning Staple Rakdos card. 2:1 is always nice and with the damage its still useful in the lategame.
war-torch goblin 1/1 creature with manacost for its mediocre ability. No thanks. Id even prefer Shock
sewn-eye drake CC4 and 1 toughness, nope. Id rather have no haste, but 3 toughness.
thrill of the hunt very solid, but selesnya has so much value cards, it didnt make the cut.
indomitable will cute, but nothing special, there are better protection spells in white.
stab wound its ok, although I prefer real removal. Either you kill the creature, then its overcosted sorcery removal, or the creature still lives and unless its power is >2 then, its still a threat.
elephant ambush I love it for my ramp/graveyard theme, but otherwise youll never use the flashback and 3/3 Flash for CC4 is solid, but not more.
havenwood wurm if you provide rampsupport, this is one of the best targets. If you get a fattie, you dont want to get it chumped all the time. I prefer Oakgnarl Warrior, when the slots are tight, though.
Grim Harvest is a card that seems like it would have so much upside. But I haven't seen anyone play it in so long because you have to work pretty hard to get there with it unlike Disturbed Burial or Death Denied.
Hmmm never had that problem with Grim Harvest. It should be your opponent that has to work hard to get rid of it. At instant speed, your opponent has to kill one of creatures EOT while you're tapped out to be able to get rid of it. Late game, you cast Grim Harvest EoT (opponents). On your turn, you get to attack into your opponent and if they block and kill something, you get to pay the 3 mana to get the spell back. Depending on your mana situation, you can either cast a creature or keep up 2 mana to cast it on their EOT again. If your opponent declines to kill one of your creatures, even better.
Yeah, Giant Scorpion has always ended up doing good work, but never being fantastic, for me. Wouldn't include at 360 cards, but for cubes larger than that it's worth considering. Quite a bit better than Dawnstrike Paladin for what it's worth, since it's pretty good at stopping undercosted/overpowered midrange creatures as well as all the 2/x aggro creatures.
Carrion Feeder: I don't like this card much - the decks that want a beater that can't block don't want to have a 1 drop that just sits around for ages until it does anything good
Blightning: Very powerful card, great in aggressive decks and even good in controlling ones (it was played in Jund a lot)
War-Torch Goblin: This card doesn't suck, but it's a trick that they can see from a million miles away so is a lot worse than it looks.
Sewn-Eye Drake: good in BR, pretty terrible in UB. I'd count it as a BR card personally, but there is much better competition. If you count it as a grixis card, it gets destroyed by Shadow Guildmage (both in power level and in an actual game)
Wild Might: It's not that bad, but it's best case scenario is just above curve (Titanic Growth, a card that isn't particularly close to cubable) and it turns into a complete dud after a certain point. Additionally it's very bad to use on blockers in general
Thrill of the Hunt: Very powerful, but so are other GW cards.
Indomitable Will: Seems a bit weak to me. I don't think I'd even play a mono coloured Common Bond
Stab Wound: A powerful and interesting effect. I do think it has less raw power than black's most efficient removal spells (I just cut it with this set) but it's certainly a good card.
Kor Hookmaster: Like the card a lot, but recognise it's not super powerful. However, white's not that powerful in general so I think it deserves a spot. Great utility in aggressive decks.
Elephant Ambush: Like it quite a bit. A 4 mana 3/3 flash isn't terrible and you will probably eventually get another elephant.
Havenwood Wurm: Mediocre, but so are the other green finishers. I like it enough for now, but if they keep printing cards as good as Nessian Asp and Sentinel Spider at the top end of green's mana curve then it might not last.
I actually like Grim Harvest more than Death Denied. Raise dead for 1b at instant speed isn't even that bad if you have no plan of actually recovering it over and over again, but you can't say the same for 1bb. I should probably try Death denied again, but like the ability that Grim Harvest has of totally taking over a game after both players start topdecking, even if you don't have a huge graveyard. The downside is, of course, that it's a lot more mana intensive.
I like Witches enough, but it's awkward that it doesn't fit into black aggro at all, where it would otherwise shine because of all the 1 toughness creatures that that deck runs. If you want that slot to support control, go ahead.
@Runner: you clearly appreciate the power of Thrill of the Hunt, why play sundering growth over it?
Have anyone ever tried multiple copies of some cards? I don't mean in the way some of us tried out Squadron Hawk, but just multiple copies of key cards (ie: in an unpowered cube with fetches steppe lynx?).
I'm asking because I was reading some articles by Jason Waddell, from Channelfireball: he's trying cube with multiples and it seems it's working very well.
I've considered it, but I'm not sure there's a huge upside to doing so in a pauper cube since games already tend to be fairly interactive with a relatively flat power level and there aren't too many specific archetypes to really focus on by including multiple cards. It is worth noting that most people here already do already play multiples of cards within a singelton constraint - take Elvish Mystic, Fyndhorn Elves, and Llanowar Elves or Lightning Strike and Searing Spear as examples. At the end of the day, singletons in cube is just as arbitrary of a rule as something like color balance or raw card power vs. synergy - do whatever you find makes the best draft experience.
Also, I'm glad someone else has read Jason Waddell's articles. I don't agree with him all the time, but I appreciate that he specifically challenges aspects of cube design that most people take for granted.
Could be interesting to design sets and draft them with the original R/U/C distribution, but its not cube anymore. Also it encourages wotc to functionally reprint stuff to support the cube community. Like they did with the burnspells.
I've always loved the "Free" Urza spells but pauper cube doesn't have the cards to support them where they are really good, which is draw go control. They're amazing when you can Snap your opponent's creature during combat and then keep up counter magic, flash in a creature, or EOT draw spell but pauper's instant speed options aren't quite there yet.
I do like stinkweed imp and suggest it in place of the scorpion. It's a good card, but the synergies with it are all kind of weak in pauper cube so we cut it a while back.
While I like snap, I think that by far its most broken was not in draw-go control decks - we're talking about a card that's been in a huge number of ridiculous combo decks. But yeah, neither of those are supported that well in this cube. It's also very good in blue tempo decks, which are good in pauper.
since i have a different approach for cubebuilding, I run it. Its awesome in tempodecks. But it also synergizes with the bouncelands, Nivix Cyclops, Overgrowth..
I think that a land-themed cube would have to be a rare cube. Too many of the cards that synergise with lands are uncommon or rare for that to be possible in pauper.
Study is always awful. All of the rhystic spells are trash. Bolt is slightly less trash but not enough to be better than other better cards, of which there are many. Study is popular because it's great in EDH, but that's an entirely different format.
So that card Cogwork Librarian that messes with drafts from the upcoming summer set Conspiracy has been confirmed to be common here: Announcing GVYJTHQXGR (Yes the article is all ciphered, but the card image is there. I can post the deciphered version if anyone wants).
CubeTutor: www.cubetutor.com/cubeblog/72
Thread: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=512410
CubeTutor: www.cubetutor.com/cubeblog/72
Thread: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=512410
You have to figure out how many slots should be burn spells, and how many of each of the various sizes, 2 damage/3 damage/4/X.
Knowledge is power, money is power, time is money, you are actually gaining time by reading my posts
check out my EDH and Pauper EDH decks here
Giantbaiting
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/9o1
Simply nuts seems a bit generous but I definitely think its playable.
Also, I have tried to post in the this or that thread like 5 times over the past 2 days and it won't work, I am enraged
Knowledge is power, money is power, time is money, you are actually gaining time by reading my posts
check out my EDH and Pauper EDH decks here
Thanks for the reply dude
Feeder - would it see play in aggro decks in a cube without support for the "sacrifice deck?" (ie my cube)
Blightning - Is this really what aggro decks want? Mind rot is awful and flame jet is awful. I honestly have no idea how good blightning is in pauper cube. Blightning shone in standard jund decks because those decks were all about getting incidental card advantage while putting on pressure. I feel like pauper aggro decks don't really care about card advantage for card advantage's sake.
Also, morgue burst is strictly for BR control! I know it's overcosted but I still love it.
Sewn-eye drake: I guess my cube is unique in its lack of blue aggro support, because my UB decks would only run this if they were desperate for playables.
Combat trickspump spells are doing lots of good work over here.Knowledge is power, money is power, time is money, you are actually gaining time by reading my posts
check out my EDH and Pauper EDH decks here
I think that train of thought (the cost of two cards added into one card) actually works heavily in favor of Blightning, especially when compared to Morgue Burst. Using their lowest cost scenarios:
Blightning = Mind Rot + Lava Spike. Essentially you come out ahead -1 mana than these effects would normally cost and it comes in one card instead of 2.
Morgue Burst = Raise Dead + (given the color combination) would more often than not be Chain Lightning. You are essentially paying 4 more mana than you should for the same effects while getting the value of 2 cards instead of 1.
I'm also with Al in that Mind Rot is actually a playable spell. Discard spells have always been solid in aggro strategies. Denying your opponent resources is a great way for you to falter your opponents curve/ability to deal with your curve. They have to decide between discarding their lands or the cards they were going to cast with those lands that they decided to keep. It's still a +1 in card advantage on your opponent even though it does not directly affect the board state. Tack on a "free" Lava Spike and you've got your self an incredibly solid card.
blightning Staple Rakdos card. 2:1 is always nice and with the damage its still useful in the lategame.
war-torch goblin 1/1 creature with manacost for its mediocre ability. No thanks. Id even prefer Shock
sewn-eye drake CC4 and 1 toughness, nope. Id rather have no haste, but 3 toughness.
wild might Id just run Titanic Growth which lacks the +1+1, but always works.
thrill of the hunt very solid, but selesnya has so much value cards, it didnt make the cut.
indomitable will cute, but nothing special, there are better protection spells in white.
stab wound its ok, although I prefer real removal. Either you kill the creature, then its overcosted sorcery removal, or the creature still lives and unless its power is >2 then, its still a threat.
kor hookmaster its no Man-o'-War, it didnt make the cut for me. It shouldve been 2/3 at least. Also there is Master of Diversion which Id prefer for this effect.
elephant ambush I love it for my ramp/graveyard theme, but otherwise youll never use the flashback and 3/3 Flash for CC4 is solid, but not more.
havenwood wurm if you provide rampsupport, this is one of the best targets. If you get a fattie, you dont want to get it chumped all the time. I prefer Oakgnarl Warrior, when the slots are tight, though.
T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t
Hmmm never had that problem with Grim Harvest. It should be your opponent that has to work hard to get rid of it. At instant speed, your opponent has to kill one of creatures EOT while you're tapped out to be able to get rid of it. Late game, you cast Grim Harvest EoT (opponents). On your turn, you get to attack into your opponent and if they block and kill something, you get to pay the 3 mana to get the spell back. Depending on your mana situation, you can either cast a creature or keep up 2 mana to cast it on their EOT again. If your opponent declines to kill one of your creatures, even better.
T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t
Yeah, Giant Scorpion has always ended up doing good work, but never being fantastic, for me. Wouldn't include at 360 cards, but for cubes larger than that it's worth considering. Quite a bit better than Dawnstrike Paladin for what it's worth, since it's pretty good at stopping undercosted/overpowered midrange creatures as well as all the 2/x aggro creatures.
Blightning: Very powerful card, great in aggressive decks and even good in controlling ones (it was played in Jund a lot)
War-Torch Goblin: This card doesn't suck, but it's a trick that they can see from a million miles away so is a lot worse than it looks.
Sewn-Eye Drake: good in BR, pretty terrible in UB. I'd count it as a BR card personally, but there is much better competition. If you count it as a grixis card, it gets destroyed by Shadow Guildmage (both in power level and in an actual game)
Wild Might: It's not that bad, but it's best case scenario is just above curve (Titanic Growth, a card that isn't particularly close to cubable) and it turns into a complete dud after a certain point. Additionally it's very bad to use on blockers in general
Thrill of the Hunt: Very powerful, but so are other GW cards.
Indomitable Will: Seems a bit weak to me. I don't think I'd even play a mono coloured Common Bond
Stab Wound: A powerful and interesting effect. I do think it has less raw power than black's most efficient removal spells (I just cut it with this set) but it's certainly a good card.
Kor Hookmaster: Like the card a lot, but recognise it's not super powerful. However, white's not that powerful in general so I think it deserves a spot. Great utility in aggressive decks.
Elephant Ambush: Like it quite a bit. A 4 mana 3/3 flash isn't terrible and you will probably eventually get another elephant.
Havenwood Wurm: Mediocre, but so are the other green finishers. I like it enough for now, but if they keep printing cards as good as Nessian Asp and Sentinel Spider at the top end of green's mana curve then it might not last.
I actually like Grim Harvest more than Death Denied. Raise dead for 1b at instant speed isn't even that bad if you have no plan of actually recovering it over and over again, but you can't say the same for 1bb. I should probably try Death denied again, but like the ability that Grim Harvest has of totally taking over a game after both players start topdecking, even if you don't have a huge graveyard. The downside is, of course, that it's a lot more mana intensive.
I like Witches enough, but it's awkward that it doesn't fit into black aggro at all, where it would otherwise shine because of all the 1 toughness creatures that that deck runs. If you want that slot to support control, go ahead.
@Runner: you clearly appreciate the power of Thrill of the Hunt, why play sundering growth over it?
Draft it on Cubetutor!
I've considered it, but I'm not sure there's a huge upside to doing so in a pauper cube since games already tend to be fairly interactive with a relatively flat power level and there aren't too many specific archetypes to really focus on by including multiple cards. It is worth noting that most people here already do already play multiples of cards within a singelton constraint - take Elvish Mystic, Fyndhorn Elves, and Llanowar Elves or Lightning Strike and Searing Spear as examples. At the end of the day, singletons in cube is just as arbitrary of a rule as something like color balance or raw card power vs. synergy - do whatever you find makes the best draft experience.
Also, I'm glad someone else has read Jason Waddell's articles. I don't agree with him all the time, but I appreciate that he specifically challenges aspects of cube design that most people take for granted.
T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t
I've always loved the "Free" Urza spells but pauper cube doesn't have the cards to support them where they are really good, which is draw go control. They're amazing when you can Snap your opponent's creature during combat and then keep up counter magic, flash in a creature, or EOT draw spell but pauper's instant speed options aren't quite there yet.
While I like snap, I think that by far its most broken was not in draw-go control decks - we're talking about a card that's been in a huge number of ridiculous combo decks. But yeah, neither of those are supported that well in this cube. It's also very good in blue tempo decks, which are good in pauper.
Draft it on Cubetutor!
since i have a different approach for cubebuilding, I run it. Its awesome in tempodecks. But it also synergizes with the bouncelands, Nivix Cyclops, Overgrowth..
T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t
Draft it on Cubetutor!