I don't like the card either, not because it's CC but because it's just not very good. 2/2 gets outclassed reasonably quickly and so it needs to be worth its difficulty to cast. Leonin Skyhunter is evasive so it does that; the 2/1 can't block that Cathar leaves behind is almost always bad.
Good to note that Phantom Tiger has been good, I should put that on my testing list.
Yo Al, you've tried the Phantom guys. I see you still have Phantom Tiger but not Phantom Nomad, what're your thoughts on them?
I'm still running the Nomad and it's been drafted quite a few times - it's really a 50/50 for me. Most of the time I'll have an answer to it but it could potential be a game ending creature with only 2-3 great cards if you don't have an answer for it. It's going to stay for now just because it's fun/interesting factor is super duper high.
Some thoughts, that came up, while writing in the other thread. Does black needs more control support? An interesting thing about black is, that it has really solid finishers for control decks, but it also needs to survive the early game. If I take a look at my own cube, from among all my black 1 and 2 drops only Typhoid Rats, Basilica Screecher and Undertaker are interesting for control decks and the Undertaker doesn't help you through the early game. I think more control support is needed, because agressive decks often have problems to chose from among all the good aggro creatures.
Here are some cards I consider to be interesting:
I've currently play or have played some of the cards you mentioned; here are my experiences with them:
I've really liked Augur of Skulls because of its versatility. Against faster decks, you usually keep the blocker, against slower decks the threat of Mind Rot on upkeep really changes their play - if they play out their hand the discard gets rid of their more expensive, higher-impact cards, but if they don't play out their hand you get a lot of tempo advantage.
Sickle Ripper has primarily been used in aggro decks for me since wither gives it pseudo-unblockability. I guess it's okay but not fantastic on defense.
Cinderbones was pretty underwhelming when I played it. Wither + regenerate is really nice, but 3 mana and regenerate for 1B is just a bit overcosted.
Giant Scorpion has been fine. Yeah, it would be really nice if it had 4 toughness, but 3 toughness deathtouchers are still pretty good.
In general, I think Black control needs a lot of support (maybe more than you can realistically provide) if you want your black section to be primarily control-oriented.
Cemetery Gate could be a good wall and has synergy with Black's sweepers. Also, Darkling Stalker is a great shade, as the 1cc regeneration is very good.
Al, I really think you should dismiss as much x/1 creatures as possible. They are way to fragile, no matter if aggro or control. And since you want to get better use of Rats and co, you dont want to clear your own board as well.
EDIT: Speaking of shades, which ones do you think are the best ones? Perilous Shadow should be 1st on the list for sure but I'm unsure abou the rest. Maybe Crypt Ripper next? And then Looming Shade?
Cutting removal hurt control, though. It used to be able to 1-for-1 the opponent with removal spells until it dropped a Fleetwing and just won. I don't want to readd removal spells, so more creatures with defensive stats might work.
I think the removal comment is very true in that it hurts control a lot. I've stuck with the old style removal heavy black/red sections and black control still works pretty well around here. Being able to 1 for 1 your opponent until you both hit top deck mode puts black control in a very good spot.
I repeat myself, but I think the Shade discussion is a little bit redundant. Black has some of the best lategame options in the whole cubes (Twisted Abomination, Death Denied, Disturbed Burial, etc.) and the main problem right now is to survive the early game. Shades, for a lot of mana, that die to Fireslinger, are more contra-productive in this case.
Agreed. I think the shades are interesting cards and could warrant some testing but they don't solve the problem of getting black control to a point where it can win the game.
I really think Goblin Bombardment is printable at common, but they haven't done it yet.
And I doubt we're ever going to get something like Goblin Bombardment at common because it would be a nightmare in a regular limited format.
On the topic of sac outlets, I haven't really considered any of them, and cut cards like Carrion Feeder a while ago. Am I missing something / should I reconsider adding them again? My thought process in cutting them was that since we have very few really good token generators and next to no repeatable recursion like Tenacious Dead or Reassembling Skeleton, sac effects are generally pretty durdly cards that don't end up doing much apart from giving you a marginal advantage when your opponent tries to kill one of your creatures. And if you can't reliably sac things to them, sac outlets tend to be overcosted and lower impact than other cards at that CMC.
Hmmm my normal cube contains only about 25-30 artifacts. Do you think Drooling Ogre is worth it? I mean it's insane if it's not answered and the chance that you have an artifact is exactly as high, as that your opponent has one, if not even higher, because you picked it on purpose, after picking Drooling Ogre.
If you say it's not worth it, in my cube, whats about the people, that are not even playing Signets anymore. Don't you have less enough artifacts, to make this card worth it.
I played it for a while. It's fine, although it does get sided out somewhat often, which you need to take into account when drafting. Also, I found that the rest of my playgroup tended to view the downside as more likely to occur than it actually occurred, which is why I ended taking it out - it just wasn't getting played unless I drafted it. I'll probably end up re-adding it soon.
I noticed this guy a few days ago.
But, dont fall to that "cubecount matters". Even with overall only 20 artifacts, its possible to give 2-3 to each player and the drawback is huge. If it would be sacrifice Id run it.
But, dont fall to that "cubecount matters". Even with overall only 20 artifacts, its possible to give 2-3 to each player and the drawback is huge. If it would be sacrifice Id run it.
Cube count definitely matters. It should always be considered when adding/removing cards from your cube.
Drooling ogre is seriously bad. If you both have artifacts, it'll stray from your side for a turn unable to block and come back summoning sick, unable to attack. I think that's enough of a drawback on a 2 mana 3/3. The fact that it will get stolen and you won't have anything to bring it back relatively often (I'd say certainly more than a quarter of games), in which case it's just disastrously bad, means that I really don't think the risk pays off.
While looking through my EDH deck I noticed that Rhystic Study happens to be a common. Has anyone here tested it out? if so how did it preform? The card seems like it could be amazing in a U/x control deck if you get it out turn 3 or 4 but would be a terrible late game top deck.
Study is on my watchlist. Sure its a bad later in the game, but everytime I play against it, it slows me down a lot. Especially if you combine it with other Tax-effects Slow Motion or Land destruction.
I dont like Flood though. Most of the Time its Narcolepsy with an upkeep of UU
Study is on my watchlist. Sure its a bad later in the game, but everytime I play against it, it slows me down a lot. Especially if you combine it with other Tax-effects Slow Motion or Land destruction.
I dont like Flood though. Most of the Time its Narcolepsy with an upkeep of UU
Flood's a huge bomb for grindy / control decks because of its flexibility and because it's a mana sink. In aggro / tempo decks, though, you're right that it's underwhelming in comparison to Narcolepsy.
Rhystic Study seems pretty bad outside of multiplayer, because faster decks can just ignore it with pretty much no consequence and then pay for it after a few turns since it doesn't actually ever impact the board. Spending a turn to gain potential card advantage a few turns later against an aggro deck isn't generally a winning strategy.
I find comparing weird draw spells to Divination is a good way to gauge their power. I think I'd take divination over rhystic study. I get cards right now (especially if I need land drops) and it doesn't give my opponent the choice to not let me get cards. Also study is awful late game.
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Do you just consider all CC drops unplayable? I wouldn't blame you, but I think including about 1 per color is good.
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Good to note that Phantom Tiger has been good, I should put that on my testing list.
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I'm still running the Nomad and it's been drafted quite a few times - it's really a 50/50 for me. Most of the time I'll have an answer to it but it could potential be a game ending creature with only 2-3 great cards if you don't have an answer for it. It's going to stay for now just because it's fun/interesting factor is super duper high.
I've currently play or have played some of the cards you mentioned; here are my experiences with them:
I've really liked Augur of Skulls because of its versatility. Against faster decks, you usually keep the blocker, against slower decks the threat of Mind Rot on upkeep really changes their play - if they play out their hand the discard gets rid of their more expensive, higher-impact cards, but if they don't play out their hand you get a lot of tempo advantage.
Sickle Ripper has primarily been used in aggro decks for me since wither gives it pseudo-unblockability. I guess it's okay but not fantastic on defense.
Cinderbones was pretty underwhelming when I played it. Wither + regenerate is really nice, but 3 mana and regenerate for 1B is just a bit overcosted.
Giant Scorpion has been fine. Yeah, it would be really nice if it had 4 toughness, but 3 toughness deathtouchers are still pretty good.
In general, I think Black control needs a lot of support (maybe more than you can realistically provide) if you want your black section to be primarily control-oriented.
I recently added Fog of Gnats, Baleful Eidolon to support control, as well as the snowcards.
I already ran Fume Spitter and always like the combination of Duty-Bound Dead+Skittering Skirge+removal, which is basically aggro-control
Nightscape Familiar is very good in UB(R) control
Augur never convinced me, Witches might be interesting, but x/1... and the best shade comes with snow
In my Synergy Cube, which is closer to yours as my powercube I run the combination of Festering Goblin, Festering Newt and Carrion Feeder, Phyrexian Ghoul
T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t
T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t
I think Liliana's Shade and Darkling Stalker are up there on that list after Perilous Shadow.
I think the removal comment is very true in that it hurts control a lot. I've stuck with the old style removal heavy black/red sections and black control still works pretty well around here. Being able to 1 for 1 your opponent until you both hit top deck mode puts black control in a very good spot.
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Crypt Ripper is the haste one.
Agreed. I think the shades are interesting cards and could warrant some testing but they don't solve the problem of getting black control to a point where it can win the game.
And I doubt we're ever going to get something like Goblin Bombardment at common because it would be a nightmare in a regular limited format.
On the topic of sac outlets, I haven't really considered any of them, and cut cards like Carrion Feeder a while ago. Am I missing something / should I reconsider adding them again? My thought process in cutting them was that since we have very few really good token generators and next to no repeatable recursion like Tenacious Dead or Reassembling Skeleton, sac effects are generally pretty durdly cards that don't end up doing much apart from giving you a marginal advantage when your opponent tries to kill one of your creatures. And if you can't reliably sac things to them, sac outlets tend to be overcosted and lower impact than other cards at that CMC.
Im currently building my Tier2 (Synergy) Cube, which means all cards from the maincube are banned. I built a small sactheme which works very well.
Festering Newt+Nantuko Husk+Driver of the Dead is quite good.
T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t
I played it for a while. It's fine, although it does get sided out somewhat often, which you need to take into account when drafting. Also, I found that the rest of my playgroup tended to view the downside as more likely to occur than it actually occurred, which is why I ended taking it out - it just wasn't getting played unless I drafted it. I'll probably end up re-adding it soon.
But, dont fall to that "cubecount matters". Even with overall only 20 artifacts, its possible to give 2-3 to each player and the drawback is huge. If it would be sacrifice Id run it.
T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t
Cube count definitely matters. It should always be considered when adding/removing cards from your cube.
Draft it on Cubetutor!
I'll probably try it out as I'm planning to make some changes to blue in order to add Ghostly flicker, Archaeomancer, and flood.
I dont like Flood though. Most of the Time its Narcolepsy with an upkeep of UU
T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t
Flood's a huge bomb for grindy / control decks because of its flexibility and because it's a mana sink. In aggro / tempo decks, though, you're right that it's underwhelming in comparison to Narcolepsy.
Rhystic Study seems pretty bad outside of multiplayer, because faster decks can just ignore it with pretty much no consequence and then pay for it after a few turns since it doesn't actually ever impact the board. Spending a turn to gain potential card advantage a few turns later against an aggro deck isn't generally a winning strategy.
T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t
Knowledge is power, money is power, time is money, you are actually gaining time by reading my posts
Click here and check out my Formerly Pauper Cube.
check out my EDH and Pauper EDH decks here