MTG Salvation

Quote from Humphrey

Compared to the red instants that deal 3 dmg its trash. Why would you fill all slots with the same spell? Doesnt sound very interesting to draft for me. In the end you still only have 1 good deck with the premium spells.

Edit: you dont even run incinerate
/discussion

So on top of being a terrible conversationist/card judge are you always an ******* as well?

Well runner cant argue that everybody aims for power and then cutting good spells for bad spells for whatever reason.
I dont run mtgo commons btw and flame jab is better than lava dart imho

And yeah im not going to discuss the other burn spells again. Especially in limited you need greater impact cards than 3 dmg to finish the opp. Also you still dont see the use of lash out. Getting rid of a blocker AND dealing 3 to the player a lot of the time.

Quote from Mahpkins

First Llanowar Elves, now Volcanic Hammer. This guy is just super trolling or his cube meta is out of this world.

Yeah i really have a much different idea of a powerful meta

I try to utilize lands as an additional ressource too, because as you said in limited you usually run more. (So lash has a higher chance to reveal a land for opp too.)
So i rather stay on 4 lands and change the others in spells ( retrace) while still be able to deal high dmg (4 mana 5 dmg not 6..)

You win the clash for Lash out less than half the time. It's a fine card, but it's a huge step down from Searing spears. I'd put it on the same level as Fire ambushes; reliable faceburn vs. instant speed+chance to be Searing blaze

Flame jab is awesome and every pauper cube should run it.

Fire whip sucks, Lava dart sucks, Death spark sucks.

/imho /2cents

Ok. Goodbye fire whip

During our last drafts one played triple jab+ empty the warrens midgame

I think black is the most powerful color. hymn to tourach, crypt rats, evincars justice the removals and a good creature base

I actually cut all of the BB removal spells except for Grasp of Darkness awhile back. I definitely agree that running cards like Eyeblight's Ending and Rend Flesh are a good idea.

Quote from Hidetaka

While we're on black. Did anyone else run into the problem of lacking lifegain in Black-based control decks? I've tried to draft it a couple of times and after sweeping with Evincar's Justice or Rats I was running so low on life that another wave of dudes/burn would always get me. Since then I've added Gray Merchant and Mark of the Vampire but 2 cards will probably not make a whole deck viable.

I haven't seen the issue too much, but it seems like a lot of it can be mitigated by prioritizing picking up cards such as Pristine Talisman, Basilica Screecher, etc. when you're drafting a black control deck. But you're right that there's not much cubeable lifegain in black. Hopefully we get more playable drain effects like Gary - we've gotten a decent amount of those recently so it's pretty clearly in what Wizards considers black's color pie at common.

Quote from Hidetaka

While we're on black. Did anyone else run into the problem of lacking lifegain in Black-based control decks? I've tried to draft it a couple of times and after sweeping with Evincar's Justice or Rats I was running so low on life that another wave of dudes/burn would always get me. Since then I've added Gray Merchant and Mark of the Vampire but 2 cards will probably not make a whole deck viable.

My list:
http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/7319
- Skinrender should be Gary here.

I've been playing Tendrils of Corruption for a long time (it's been okay), and added Corrupt recently to test (it's been very good). I've liked the 6-mana spell better because having the option to go to the face is really powerful. They've both featured in decks that are mono-color as well as 2-colors with a land base favoring swamps to make up for it, and the power level is definitely there. These are where I'd start looking, in addition to the Extort guys and Pristine Talisman. If you're still hurting for lifegain, Markov Patrician is not too far away from cubability, even though I know it has 1 toughness.

I'm sure basically everyone will balk at this, but I LOVE morbid hunger in my control decks. Essence drain is a nice card as well, but I got rid of it as part of my conscious effort to cut down on removal in general. I found both of these cards to be really helpful for stabilizing. Remember, 3 damage kills a huge majority of pauper cube creatures, and you want to keep your life out of burn/haste/random mishaps range.

Bloodhunter bat is decent. It's lacking a bit in raw power, but it can go in basically any deck. In aggro, shocking your opponent is the cool part; for control, gaining life is the cool part.

I also like tendrils, but it really sucks if you don't draw a third swamp.

Quote from Runner5678

I like this. With Gary now on the scene, maybe it's time to start seeing what Mono(mostly)black can do. Black is kind of boring for me. I don't feel like I've seen it change at all since I started cubing. I've recently tried supporting a "sac" theme, which has been ok. More fun, but just ok power-level wise.

Yeah you usually have to play a few fringe cards or dip into a second color for a splash, but the boost in power on your Gray Merchant and Corrupt is a very real incentive. I've drafted this deck twice personally, once splashing only a few Extort guys and once mono-black with a low curve, and it was very solid both times. Corrupt as a versatile removal spell or a lava axe that also happens to put you way ahead in the race is a lot more impressive than I initially thought it would be.

Also yes, Tendrils for 2 is really disappointing, but any bigger and it becomes very acceptable and very quickly scales to excellent.

On an unrelated note. I am considering either going back to the full 10 bouncelands, or removing them entirely in favor of more monocolor cards. I am currently playing only the blue ones and Golgari Rot Farm and I see them being picked and played not primarily as fixing, but rather as a way to get ahead on cards. As such I think removing them entirely is where I want to go with this, but I wanted to get more opinions first. I know the Peasant guys have disdained them for the most part, though it is definitely a different format, and on the whole I'm not actually thrilled with them in gameplay. I may try adding Borderposts in their place, but I'm not 100% on that either. Thoughts? I'm not sure what the consensus is about these cards with most of the people here.

Never cut the bouncelands..

I think corrupt, tendrils, gary and spinning darkness are the best options in black to regain life. But you should draft sylviok lifestaff for control.

vampires bite might be another option

To spice up black (bg) i added undertaker, tortured existence, stinkweed imp, exhume, golgari brownscale

Bouncelands are probably my favorite thing in pauper cube, not even kidding.

I'll play off-color ones in all my decks except the very most blistering aggro decks.

Here is a list of cards of the top of my head that will be very happy you are running them: Anything with cmc5+, fireball variants, cenn's enlistment/flame jab, merfolk looters/infiltrator il-kor/sift/compulsive research, faithless looting, opaline bracers, steppe lynx/plated geopede/fledgling griffin/adventuring gear, wild mongrel

Basically they ensure you get enough mana for the top of your curve and/or give you a free card to pitch to stuff, and they do it with minimal cost (About 1 mana, or none if you play a second 2 drop on turn 3 or similar scenario)

EDIT: I just thought about this for 5 more seconds and I realized you could describe it like playing a land that has sylvan ranger's ability ("draw a card that's a land.") Which is pretty nuts for a goddamn land!

After some discussion with a draft buddy i think im going to push the deepB theme. With the upcoming marshmist titan ill add consume spirit and wicked akuba

Maybe even phyrexian broodlings

Edit: they didnt make the cut, but dross golem

Quote from jonboyjon

How cuttable are these colorless cards?

I'm thinking of making these changes:

Cut:
Mind Stone
Armillary Sphere
Wayfarer's Bauble
Pilgrim's Eye
Prismatic Lens

Move from colored to colorless:
Porcelain Legionnaire
Spined Thopter
Vault Skirge
Pith Driller
Slash Panther

Mind stone is the best card there, and I like the lens too. Though I do like moving the phyrexian mana creatures to colourless. Since when was Spined Thopter ever played more in blue decks?

I like the idea of a marshmist titan + gray merchant theme, but I don't think you have to go overboard with the double cost guys. I'd rather have a good 1B card than a bad BB card even in that deck

Quote from Runner5678

You should play Dross Golem anyway. It's a 1BB 3/2 with Fear with big upside. That's a pretty good card. Fear is an arguably as relevant, if not more relevant, evasion than Flying.

Seconded on Dross Golem. It's an amazing card and probably one of my favorite inclusions up to 450.

On another note Runner, I've been testing a bit of that Dredge archetype that we were discussing earlier on the thread and it's been working on really, really nicely in a G/B shell;

Grisly Salvage test

Stinkweed Imp test

Golgari Brownscale test

Tortured Existence

Undertaker

Basking Rootwalla

Moldervine Cloak

Carrion Feeder

Unearth

Werebear

Sluiceway Scorpion

EXHUME

Ulamog's Crusher

Seriously has been doing mad work. I might make the change to throw in Salvage, Imp and Brownscale indefinitely. Maybe find room for Putrid Imp as well.

--------------------------------------------------------

I've also been really unimpressed with Skittering Scourge in my drafts for as long as I can remember. For my group it's SUPER easy to work around (Oh you're playing that? I guess you're not playing any more creatures), and more than half the time I don't want to play it early since I'll have a hand full of creatures that I'll have to play first otherwise it's a dead card in hand basically. It's a really situational card that I don't feel like is worth it's weight, but I'm open to opinions.

I'm also going to be probably taking out Basilica Screecher and Syndic of Tithes, since they are in their respective Black and White slots and during drafts its made B/W decks just way too powerful and reliable - which has always been one of the stronger Pauper guilds IMO.

Thoughts on Hallowed Healer and Wall of Heat?

Well i want to test akuba. It forces your opp to block (or not to attack) Its always a bear, so it trades with enough and it has the option to deal 5 on turn 3 . It might even a reason to put snuff out back in the cube and its already a reason to high pick viridian longbow or whispersilk cloak
predator's gambit or shadow alley denizen might also become more interesting.

For the dredge support try shambling shell and the new satyr wayfinder, the deck can work but needs to many fringe slots in 360

I always liked the skirge. Its good in a more controlish deck. The best healer is troubled healer, its a better zuran orb. Im running the wall but didnt see it yet

Quote from Humphrey

Well i want to test akuba. It forces your opp to block (or not to attack) Its always a bear, so it trades with enough and it has the option to deal 5 on turn 3 . It might even a reason to put snuff out back in the cube and its already a reason to high pick virdian longbow

For the dredge support try shambling shell and the new satyr wayfinder, the deck can work but needs to many fringe slots in 360

Thankfully I'm at 450, I have a pretty big draft group

Quote from Runner5678

Oh that's awesome! You haven't found the cards to be too narrow? Like do they still get play when the all-encompassing Dredge deck doesn't come together?

I like the idea of Unearth dudes like Dregscape Zombie and Viscera Dragger plus Carrion Feeder or even Bloodflow Connoisseur

Not at all so far actually. The Goliath is a solid pick in a Green stompy deck and a pretty decent midrange card altogether that you can get some great value of. So far the weakest has been Stinkweed Imp, only because Dredging 5 in a 40 card deck for a pseudo removal is kind of a pain in the ass sometimes, but the fact that it's flying is incredibly relevant.

Carrion Feeder also always has a place in many decks, and is easily splash able. Grisly Salvage also isn't too great in other archetypes, but damn is it good in this shell.

I might try to find room for Viscera Dragger and Dregscape Zombie too in the future.

What do you guys think of dirge of dead? Looks like a powerful finisher to me, with good flexibility

I did cut snuff out because i never faced a threat i wanted to pay 4 life for and hardcast its an overcosted doomblade. But now with more lifegain and the akuba it might get value

Quote from Al_Z_Heimer

I think Dirge of Dread is one of this solid cards, where no one could say, they're not good, but there is simply not enough space in the cubes to include every solid card.

This card looks better than solid to me. Against nonB decks its an iwin button when the board is stalled, or at least its useful when cycled.

So here are the changes I'm looking to do to support Dredge, looking for critiques;

Basilicia Screecher ----> Putrid Imp

The Screecher is a solid card, but as I've said before Extort makes B/W way too powerful since it's in the Black column. I'll be taking out Syndic of Tithes for the same reason. Putrid Imp is still solid on it's own regardless.

Skittering Scourge ----> Stinkweed Imp

The Scourge hasn't done well for me, and isn't picked often in my group. It's time is probably up, for now.

MAYBE Garruk's Companion or something else. ----> Golgari Brownscale

I don't know what to take out for this guy

Desecrator Hag or Rendclaw Troll ----> Grisly Salvage

I like both of those in the shell, but it's really up in the air.

I'm also doing;

Strider Harness ----> Tormod's Crypt

Flashback/Dredge/Reanimator hate is welcome in my cube, especially against Blue which has been very strong for a long time.

Quote from Al_Z_Heimer

I haven't ever seen Screecher and Syndic beeing prefered by Orzhov decks. Especially the syndic is strong and a lot of decks like to pick it as an interesting 2 drop, that can be good at stalled boards and grants some reach to agressive deck.

Cutting from green, I would think about Harrow, Farseek, Explore, Search for Tomorrow, Pouncing Jaguar or Basking Rootwalla.

I don't think you can cut Desecrator Hag if you think about supporting Dredge.

I wouldn't play Tormod's Crypt. It's card disadvantage and that can hit you terribly in limited. If you really think graveyard hate is needed, Bojuka Bog and Relic of Progenitus are way more interesting. The Bog can be played as a colorlress land by any deck.

Totally forgot about Relic, probably will play that instead since the Cantrip is super nice.

Dont forget Night Soil
Id even say it should be a staple in every cube, this card is nuts in and against control

And maybe you can put Hag and Trow in b or g, so you can add Shambling Shell