So what do people think about Pharagax Giant? For those who haven't seen the spoiler:
Pharagax Giant 4R
Tribute 2 (As this creature enters the battlefield, an opponent of your choice may place two +1/+1 counters on it.)
When Pharagax Giant enters the battlefield, if tribute wasn't paid, Pharagax Giant deals 5 damage to each opponent.
3/3
Seems like it's probably in a better place in pauper than Vexing Devil was in standard. It still suffers from the same argument that it's burn when you want a creature and a creature when you want burn but a 5/5 is a huge creature for red decks.
I don't like it much, but it might be better than the Flowstone Crusher I'm currently playing. I'll have to think about it more, but my initial impression is that it is not a card I want to be playing.
That said I really hope we get a solid card or two with the new mechanics in the set, I think they're both pretty interesting for gameplay which is always something I'm after. Oreskos Sun Guide (below) is close to playable I think, but probably not at 360.
Oreskos Sun Guide
1w
Creature — Cat Monk Common
Inspired — Whenever Oreskos Sun Guide becomes untapped, you gain 2 life.
Flowstone Crusher has always seemed really iffy on paper to me but has continued to impress me every time I draft it.
I agree that the pseudo lifelink 2/2 probably becomes worth consideration above 360. I think the competition for white 2 drops is pretty well stocked atm in 360 tho.
Not to derail the BNG discussions, but I picked up a beta Disintegrate recently and am thinking about what to cut for it from my red section, curious about others' thoughts:
Yep, I think you summarized the weakest cards pretty well.
Brute Force is my main contender right now, mostly because I also run Rubblebelt Makka, which is just generally better.
I generally agree on your assessments and have kept a couple of those cards in largely out of demand from people I play with, but I am curious if you would suggest a substitute for Vithian Stinger from amongst the pingers that I am not running?
I don't know who else is above 360 here other than myself (at 450), but the Sun Guide definitely doesn't seem bad. It's not the best 2 drop obviously but I could probably make room for it.
One thing I might be taking out is Syndic of Tides as well as Basilicia Screecher, literally only because of their synergy in Orzhov decks which my group has found to be SUPER powerful. IMO Orhzov commons are all far and beyond the rest of the guild commons. Having two more cards that fit the archetype like a glove is kind of problem.
I'm usually okay with some other color bleeding (Wild Nacatl for example), but these guys have been almost too good if picked up in a draft. Maybe I'll sit on it some more and my group just sucks.
Has anybody ever tried the banding creatures? I don't quite understand how the M10 rules changes affect banding, but I do recall that banding was awesome in a limited format with lots of small creatures. Which is pauper. And I have a soldier tribal thing going so Benalish Hero or Shield Bearer are on type.
If it wasnt' so disgustingly overcosted the trample banding elephant would be good, because you can have it deal it's trample damage directly.
Before M10 you could have two 2/2s band and attack, blocked by a 2/2 and your guys don't die at all. 1 damage to each. Now, I don't know how the rules change affects this.
The red enchantment goes well with inspiration or whatever that 'when it untaps' new ability. Also enables heroic. Probably not good enough for cube even if it's playable in limited.
Thoughts on the best Shade?
at CMC3 it seems like: Shade's Form
at CMC4: Darkling Stalker, Crypt Ripper and Lilliana's Shade all seem comparable.
I like Shade's Form/Lili's Shade personally I think.
I'm not necessarily going to include one, but I feel like my black section could use a shade if it starts to get much more mono black.
Drafted my pauper cube with some new drafters tonight, and one in particular had a couple of questions.
1. Why don't people run Wind Zendikon?
2. Why don't people run Scythe Tiger? I tried to explain that he's typically a bad early game card because he sets you back on mana for the rest of the game, but is too weak at 3/2 to be useful in the late game either, but it didn't take. Are there any more eloquent arguments as to why he's not in most cubes?
Wind Zendikon is an efficient creature (a 2/2 for 1), but it costs you a land, which really hurts in the earlygame.
Basically what you said is correct. Early on the lost land reeeeeally hurts, so it's basically relegated to a very efficient lategame card. The problem is, with lategame cards you want impact over efficiency. Have your friends compare it to the 4/5/6drops and they should see why you don't play it.
That's a little bit too offtopic for my tastes. However, I understand the desire for a place for off-topic discussion within this community, so I've made a thread here where Pauper & Peasant cubists can weigh in on the merits of a possible Off-Topic Thread.
It seems, Im the only one who runs scythe tiger and rogue elephant. So far they were quite good. Yesterday I precostructed 2 decks, one with manaelves and strong 3 drops and one with the Stompy approach.
Usually the deck which started won the match. So its pretty even. Maybe someone will test it?
It seems, Im the only one who runs scythe tiger and rogue elephant. So far they were quite good. Yesterday I precostructed 2 decks, one with manaelves and strong 3 drops and one with the Stompy approach.
Usually the deck which started won the match. So its pretty even. Maybe someone will test it?
I saw more people including / testing the stompy archetype a year or so ago. I think a lot of people here (for better or worse) have shifted their green sections away from focusing on aggro and towards more midrange strategies and / or ramp / hexproof / etc. For what it's worth, I have two main issues with the green stompy archetype:
a) you set yourself up for huge blowouts. The green stompy deck may have one the fastest goldfish wins available in pauper cube, but pauper cube is also arguably the limited format with the highest density of low-cost, quality removal spells that also has a high density of solid midrange creatures. It's really easy to stabilize against stompy decks, and once that happens it's game over, especially since cards like Scythe Tiger have huge built-in drawbacks. Also, testing Stompy against a slower aggro/midrange green deck doesn't really give an accurate picture of how viable it is in your cube; with respect to the rest of the decks you can draft in your cube, I'm guessing the deck with mana elves and strong midrange creatures will most likely perform much better on average.
b) Making stompy / aggro decks draftable, especially in green, tends to require a lot of support, and most of the stompy cards aren't playable outside of stompy decks. If you don't have that critical mass of below the curve creatures, the stompy deck can't win. I think you can have more variety and interesting effects in your green section if you don't include the stompy archetype. This is a personal preference, but every color doesn't need to have access to a good aggro deck, and no color does midrange better than green (along with things like ramp / hexproof / etc.).
well one can construct a line of play where cards are crap or sick -
also its the old "dies to removal" quote.
The best approach for the stompydeck is deep Green with few high Impact burn like Brimstone Volley or Artillerize
Then, youll never play Elephant or Tiger on turn1, but on turn2 with another 1 drop at best, so you can curve out from that point more natural.
later the stompy guys still ok, while a manaelf is a worse topdeck.
more and more I try to shift away from 1 toughness guys in my cube, theyre just so bad against a lot of things, like pinger, fireball and sweeper.
My goal was to make the strongest incube archetypes possible, not random draft decks. Besides, if everybody wants the elves, in the end youll only get 1, maybe 2. Thats pretty unreliable to get them early on.
Drafted my pauper cube with some new drafters tonight, and one in particular had a couple of questions.
1. Why don't people run Wind Zendikon?
2. Why don't people run Scythe Tiger? I tried to explain that he's typically a bad early game card because he sets you back on mana for the rest of the game, but is too weak at 3/2 to be useful in the late game either, but it didn't take. Are there any more eloquent arguments as to why he's not in most cubes?
What is your cube doing if 2 people try to draft the same deck? Each of them only has half of the good cards and none of the decks work, because the stompy cards are terrible in any list, that hasn't all of these cards. The powerlevel of the decks suffers alot from this fact.
As I said before, constructed decks run mana dorks, too. There are far more decks run them, then decks, that are running stompy cards. If you want constructed feeling, you should include every mana elf you get. You also offer the feeling of a constructed deck, by having multiple of them. The chance to get 2 mana dorks is way higher, than the chance to get Rouge Elephant and Scythe Tiger in the same deck.
But as some already mentioned. Those 1drops, are relatively narrow. You want them in turbofast, not so much in midrangy decks. And to see what archetypes are open and what fits best in your specific deckplan, is part of the skill and luck what drafting is all about.
Sure it would be ok to have some more manadudes, too. But in 360 spots are tight.
In the end, theyre still measily 1/1, thats bad. And that what the rare versions of the manadudes are not.
Pharagax Giant 4R
Tribute 2 (As this creature enters the battlefield, an opponent of your choice may place two +1/+1 counters on it.)
When Pharagax Giant enters the battlefield, if tribute wasn't paid, Pharagax Giant deals 5 damage to each opponent.
3/3
Seems like it's probably in a better place in pauper than Vexing Devil was in standard. It still suffers from the same argument that it's burn when you want a creature and a creature when you want burn but a 5/5 is a huge creature for red decks.
That said I really hope we get a solid card or two with the new mechanics in the set, I think they're both pretty interesting for gameplay which is always something I'm after. Oreskos Sun Guide (below) is close to playable I think, but probably not at 360.
Oreskos Sun Guide
1w
Creature — Cat Monk Common
Inspired — Whenever Oreskos Sun Guide becomes untapped, you gain 2 life.
Level 1 Judge
I agree that the pseudo lifelink 2/2 probably becomes worth consideration above 360. I think the competition for white 2 drops is pretty well stocked atm in 360 tho.
Creatures: (39)
1x Goblin Patrol
1x Intimidator Initiate
1x Keldon Halberdier
1x Mogg Fanatic
1x Skitter of Lizards
2CMC: (13)
1x Ashmouth Hound
1x Fireslinger
1x Goblin Bushwhacker
1x Goblin Shortcutter
1x Gore-House Chainwalker
1x Keldon Marauders
1x Kiln Fiend
1x Kruin Striker
1x Mogg War Marshal
1x Plated Geopede
1x Sparksmith
1x Stingscourger
1x Torch Fiend
1x Blood Ogre
1x Crusher Zendikon
1x Fault Riders
1x Fervent Cathar
1x Ghitu Slinger
1x Hanweir Lancer
1x Manic Vandal
1x Ruinous Minotaur
1x Splatter Thug
1x Wall of Heat
1x Vithian Stinger
1x Vulshok Sorcerer
4CMC: (5)
1x Gorehorn Minotaurs
1x Ill-Tempered Cyclops
1x Rubblebelt Maaka
1x Rukh Egg
1x Slash Panther
1x Anarchist
1x Flowstone Crusher
6CMC: (2)
1x Chartooth Cougar
1x Tenament Crasher
Spells: (28)
1x Fireblast
1CMC: (10)
1x Brute Force
1x Burst Lightning
1x Chain Lightning
1x Faithless Looting
1x Firebolt
1x Flame Slash
1x Lava Dart
1x Lightning Bolt
1x Reckless Charge
1x Rift Bolt
1x Electrickery
1x Fire Whip
1x Incinerate
1x Nightbird's Clutches
1x Searing Blaze
1x Searing Spear
3CMC: (3)
1x Act of Treason
1x Arc Lightning
1x Brimstone Volley
1x Chandra's Outrage
1x Empty the Warrens
1x Magma Burst
5CMC: (1)
1x Pyrotechnics
XCMC: (4)
1x Fireball
1x Kaervek's Torch
1x Rock Slide
1x Rolling Thunder
Brute Force is my main contender right now, mostly because I also run Rubblebelt Makka, which is just generally better.
I generally agree on your assessments and have kept a couple of those cards in largely out of demand from people I play with, but I am curious if you would suggest a substitute for Vithian Stinger from amongst the pingers that I am not running?
One thing I might be taking out is Syndic of Tides as well as Basilicia Screecher, literally only because of their synergy in Orzhov decks which my group has found to be SUPER powerful. IMO Orhzov commons are all far and beyond the rest of the guild commons. Having two more cards that fit the archetype like a glove is kind of problem.
I'm usually okay with some other color bleeding (Wild Nacatl for example), but these guys have been almost too good if picked up in a draft. Maybe I'll sit on it some more and my group just sucks.
http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/attachments/116/293/635267298894267143.png
The red aura looks awful. 15th pick..
I also think the red guy is bad. Definitly much worse than Flowstone Giant or Fireelemental
And the white lifeguy, I fail to see how its better than Ajani's Sunstrikerr besides its CC with a lot more downsides
T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t
Before M10 you could have two 2/2s band and attack, blocked by a 2/2 and your guys don't die at all. 1 damage to each. Now, I don't know how the rules change affects this.
The red enchantment goes well with inspiration or whatever that 'when it untaps' new ability. Also enables heroic. Probably not good enough for cube even if it's playable in limited.
at CMC3 it seems like: Shade's Form
at CMC4: Darkling Stalker, Crypt Ripper and Lilliana's Shade all seem comparable.
I like Shade's Form/Lili's Shade personally I think.
I'm not necessarily going to include one, but I feel like my black section could use a shade if it starts to get much more mono black.
Constructed (Casual) | Pinksleeves |
Constructed (Pauper) | Izzet Fiend | Mono Black | Burn |
Constructed (Standard) | Under Construction |
Constructed (Modern) | Fate Seal |
Constructed (Legacy) | Dream Halls |
Constructed (Vintage) | Not Yet |
Constructed (Commander) | Sliver Overlord | Uril, the Miststalker | Braids, Cabal Minion |
Limited | Alara Block | Time Spiral Block | Innistrad Block | Rise of the Eldrazi |
oops!
He wasn't on my search because it was for "{b}:"+"+1/+1"
Yeah, seems like the definitive 4CMC shade. 4 toughness and the easy pump.
Anyone have experience with Shade's Form?
Constructed (Casual) | Pinksleeves |
Constructed (Pauper) | Izzet Fiend | Mono Black | Burn |
Constructed (Standard) | Under Construction |
Constructed (Modern) | Fate Seal |
Constructed (Legacy) | Dream Halls |
Constructed (Vintage) | Not Yet |
Constructed (Commander) | Sliver Overlord | Uril, the Miststalker | Braids, Cabal Minion |
Limited | Alara Block | Time Spiral Block | Innistrad Block | Rise of the Eldrazi |
You can even use it to steal opponent's creatures in a pinch.
That's pretty cool. Cool as Ice
1. Why don't people run Wind Zendikon?
2. Why don't people run Scythe Tiger? I tried to explain that he's typically a bad early game card because he sets you back on mana for the rest of the game, but is too weak at 3/2 to be useful in the late game either, but it didn't take. Are there any more eloquent arguments as to why he's not in most cubes?
Basically what you said is correct. Early on the lost land reeeeeally hurts, so it's basically relegated to a very efficient lategame card. The problem is, with lategame cards you want impact over efficiency. Have your friends compare it to the 4/5/6drops and they should see why you don't play it.
My Pauper Cube ♤ The Pauper Cube Thread Common Knowledge — 1 2
My Pauper Cube ♤ The Pauper Cube Thread Common Knowledge — 1 2
Usually the deck which started won the match. So its pretty even. Maybe someone will test it?
T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t
I saw more people including / testing the stompy archetype a year or so ago. I think a lot of people here (for better or worse) have shifted their green sections away from focusing on aggro and towards more midrange strategies and / or ramp / hexproof / etc. For what it's worth, I have two main issues with the green stompy archetype:
a) you set yourself up for huge blowouts. The green stompy deck may have one the fastest goldfish wins available in pauper cube, but pauper cube is also arguably the limited format with the highest density of low-cost, quality removal spells that also has a high density of solid midrange creatures. It's really easy to stabilize against stompy decks, and once that happens it's game over, especially since cards like Scythe Tiger have huge built-in drawbacks. Also, testing Stompy against a slower aggro/midrange green deck doesn't really give an accurate picture of how viable it is in your cube; with respect to the rest of the decks you can draft in your cube, I'm guessing the deck with mana elves and strong midrange creatures will most likely perform much better on average.
b) Making stompy / aggro decks draftable, especially in green, tends to require a lot of support, and most of the stompy cards aren't playable outside of stompy decks. If you don't have that critical mass of below the curve creatures, the stompy deck can't win. I think you can have more variety and interesting effects in your green section if you don't include the stompy archetype. This is a personal preference, but every color doesn't need to have access to a good aggro deck, and no color does midrange better than green (along with things like ramp / hexproof / etc.).
Me - Mountain, lightning bolt.
If Scythe Tiger, replace with deathtouch guy, or a 2-power blocker or something.
also its the old "dies to removal" quote.
The best approach for the stompydeck is deep Green with few high Impact burn like Brimstone Volley or Artillerize
Then, youll never play Elephant or Tiger on turn1, but on turn2 with another 1 drop at best, so you can curve out from that point more natural.
later the stompy guys still ok, while a manaelf is a worse topdeck.
more and more I try to shift away from 1 toughness guys in my cube, theyre just so bad against a lot of things, like pinger, fireball and sweeper.
Testdraft:
1 Kird Ape
1 Pouncing Jaguar
1 Quirion Ranger
1 Rogue Elephant
1 Nettle Sentinel
1 Wild Nacatl
1 Darkthicket Wolf
1 Garruk's Companion
1 Mire Boa
1 Mogg War Marshal
1 River Boa
1 Wild Mongrel
1 Fault Riders
1 Gathan Raiders
1 Hungry Spriggan
1 Simian Grunts
1 Vines of Vastwood
1 Lash Out
1 Invigorate
1 Wild Hunger
1 Artillerize
1 Cackling Flames
1 Reckless Charge
1 Madcap Skills
1 Moldervine Cloak
1 Teetering Peaks
1 Tranquil Thicket
5 Mountain
7 Forest
T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t
T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t
But if everybody had my cube philosophy, every cube would be the same
T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t
But as some already mentioned. Those 1drops, are relatively narrow. You want them in turbofast, not so much in midrangy decks. And to see what archetypes are open and what fits best in your specific deckplan, is part of the skill and luck what drafting is all about.
Sure it would be ok to have some more manadudes, too. But in 360 spots are tight.
In the end, theyre still measily 1/1, thats bad. And that what the rare versions of the manadudes are not.
T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t