the only reason I can think of not to include magma burst is if you think it's TOO oppressively powerful
Rock slide, on the other hand, seems very mediocre. I see it being an awkward heat ray most of the time, hardly ever going to net a 2-for-1. But I haven't played with it.
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the only reason I can think of not to include magma burst is if you think it's TOO oppressively powerful
Rock slide, on the other hand, seems very mediocre. I see it being an awkward heat ray most of the time, hardly ever going to net a 2-for-1. But I haven't played with it.
I'm assuming that Lightning Bolt and Rolling Thunder not being 100% might be because of power level concerns but for whatever reason Magma Burst just doesn't see a high rate of inclusion.
Wow, really? I had it in consideration for a while but thought it didn't look good enough, I'll have to find a copy and try it out.
I was surprised to find that it rated so low. I wasn't aware that it was considered a staple but it is definitely a strong card although we don't think playing it as a Searing Blaze is particularly great.
Re magma burst: I mean how many creatures in pauper cubes can survive lightning bolt? This thing straight up kills two dudes at once or can be searing blaze, and it's an instant. The cost is certainly worth it.
I've not once been disappointed by Rock Slide since I put it in my cube a year ago. It does some serious work against aggro decks. I've also cut Searing Blaze just because the RR is often annoying to cast and the lack of fetches in pauper making it a sorcery 99% of the time.
I think I looked at Magma Burst as a Searing Blaze without realizing it can just kill 2 things. I don't know if I like cutting Fireblast for it as I really like the card and I'm trying to make sure there are some burn spells that control decks won't go in for, so aggro can always get a couple because they need it. I'll probably find room for that Magma Burst though. Can anyone speak for Nightbird's Clutches? It seems like the most interesting of the spells on KBH's list of non-burn spells but I don't actually know how good it is.
I think I looked at Magma Burst as a Searing Blaze without realizing it can just kill 2 things. I don't know if I like cutting Fireblast for it as I really like the card and I'm trying to make sure there are some burn spells that control decks won't go in for, so aggro can always get a couple because they need it. I'll probably find room for that Magma Burst though. Can anyone speak for Nightbird's Clutches? It seems like the most interesting of the spells on KBH's list of non-burn spells but I don't actually know how good it is.
Clutches good.
If you want a similar effect, the "non artifact dudes can't block" new phyrexia or "non-gold dude can't block" spells are both pretty good in cubes where artifact dudes and/or gold dudes are not particularly common.
Edit: Just a question for everyone else, who still plays Giant Growth, so everyone except for me: Isn't Deadly Recluse strictly better than any combat trick? Who wouldn't pick the Recluse as a sure 1 for 1 trade over any kind of combat trick in a draft?
I'm still running Giant Growth only because I like the original Boons. From a pure flavour perspective it's great, and still playable.
I'm still running Giant Growth only because I like the original Boons. From a pure flavour perspective it's great, and still playable.
Indeed. I still run Lightning Bolt, Dark Ritual which, while not a high pick, it is a great hook for people new to pauper cubing (as in, showing them a pack with dark ritual in it alongside other things works well to draw them into the format, as many have an idea that pauper cube is very low in its power level), Giant Growth (which still manages to suprise every time I think it is almost too bad to run anymore). I am trying to find white and blue "boons" that would still be decent. At the moment I am considering either Brainstorm or Ponder to be the "blue boon", as Brainstorm is a draw 3 with a downside (but has the important 3 printed on it, as well as the downside sometimes being an upside) and Ponder honestly feels very "boony" to me (it feels almost like an attempt at a more balanced Ancestral Recall). I am still unsure what the white boon should be, Healing Salve just doesn't do it for me (or anyone, I guess).
Edit: Just a question for everyone else, who still plays Giant Growth, so everyone except for me: Isn't Deadly Recluse strictly better than any combat trick? Who wouldn't pick the Recluse as a sure 1 for 1 trade over any kind of combat trick in a draft?
Indeed. I still run Lightning Bolt, Dark Ritual which, while not a high pick, it is a great hook for people new to pauper cubing (as in, showing them a pack with dark ritual in it alongside other things works well to draw them into the format, as many have an idea that pauper cube is very low in its power level), Giant Growth (which still manages to suprise every time I think it is almost too bad to run anymore). I am trying to find white and blue "boons" that would still be decent. At the moment I am considering either Brainstorm or Ponder to be the "blue boon", as Brainstorm is a draw 3 with a downside (but has the important 3 printed on it, as well as the downside sometimes being an upside) and Ponder honestly feels very "boony" to me (it feels almost like an attempt at a more balanced Ancestral Recall). I am still unsure what the white boon should be, Healing Salve just doesn't do it for me (or anyone, I guess).
For white boons, there's Pollen Remedy which doesn't look like much of an improvement over Healing Salve at first glance, but splitting damage prevention among multiple creatures at least has the potential for a blowout in your favor. I'm testing it right now as part of a land-sacrifice cycle. Or if you're OK with a color-shifted boon you could always go with Sunlance.
Just for posterity's sake, Deadly Recluse used to be considered garbage, or not as high at the very least. I am seeing this discussion unfold and scratch my head as we compared it to the Thornweald Archer, and then to the Ambush Viper and it was always 'what? a 1/2 with reach.. Archer is better".
I see this as a metagaming solution to the current love affair with Hexproof, and then looking at the context as it pertains to the 'defensive' or 'controlling' side of green.
Just for posterity's sake, Deadly Recluse used to be considered garbage, or not as high at the very least. I am seeing this discussion unfold and scratch my head as we compared it to the Thornweald Archer, and then to the Ambush Viper and it was always 'what? a 1/2 with reach.. Archer is better".
I see this as a metagaming solution to the current love affair with Hexproof, and then looking at the context as it pertains to the 'defensive' or 'controlling' side of green.
I would agree. Out of the 3 I only run Ambush Viper because of it's flexibility as both an evasive 2/1 and an instant speed trick. I would also prefer the Thornweald Archer over Deadly Recluse but I guess if you're looking for that defensive kill spell Deadly Recluse might look more enticing because it doesn't die to every pinger and half of a Lava Dart. I would probably throw Nightshade Peddler into the mix as well if we were to put this discussion into the This or That thread.
Also, I don't think any of the things I mentioned are corner cases. They are things that come up in every game of pauper cube. Also, giving your opponent who is playing black/white/red to "counter" your removal with their removal is worse than straight up playing a removal spell when in late game top deck mode. Being able to trade their burn spell so that you can't deal with their 4/4 is very much so in their favor.
I personally like Deadly Recluse because I don't mind trading it for any of my opponents creatures or spells, where I would rather get value out of Thornweald Archer. Ambush Viper is the merging of the two, though losing Reach hurts it and justifies including the former two.
I like Al's idea and can understand his point; combat tricks just don't stack up to removal, even in Green's case. Green has received a lot of viable, albeit conditional, removal that is making its bread and butter combat tricks pale, particularly when Green's identity is stretched in three or four directions.
I've been considering a different direction; removing all but the most valuable removal to include more combat tricks, encouraging more creature interactions and mind games between opponents. As a basic rule I was considering dropping all removal cc3 and above, and work from there to find balance.
Giant growth/brute force are pretty unique for letting your two or three X/2 creatures attack fearlessly into a 4/X creature. There are realistic scenarios like this where giant growth is better than lightning bolt.
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After first testing with the new additions, Benthic Giant and Gray Merchant of Asphodel are both worth their spots, Giant was excellent in creature-light UWr and got suited up with a 3-counter Opaline Bracers for a build-your-own-Abyss, and Gray Merchant was INSANE in mostly-black aggro, way better than I expected him to be and I already had high hopes.
Nimbus Naiad was solid, I didn't see it in play often enough to know just how good but I know it did some work. My other new additions never came up, either because no one was in the deck for them (red aggro was absent for the first time in a long time) or they weren't in the draft pool to begin with since it was a 6-man.
It had been way too long since I cubed, the fire is rekindled and I just want to draft again. I'm really happy with the way my list feels both in the draft portion and in the gameplay at this point, which makes me really happy, and I had some new drafters say they loved it. No one gets a truly bad deck ever, which I guess is a merit of pauper cubing.
That said there were a couple cards that seemed lackluster, the one I remember most was Plover Knights, I'm not sure how I feel about that card in my 360. Thoughts?
Plover Knight is definite filler. It can happen that decks just want more fliers -- especially in Cubes >360. In that case, Plover looks like godsend. But I'd say thats atypical in Cube unless you have a highly customized design.
Thoughts on Rot Wolf? Running only one Infect card with no proliferate to be seen seems odd of course but what if we assume you just don't attack with it. A 2/2 Wither Defender that can draw a card if you block a creature with 2 or less toughness seems decent. He could also wear some pants and threaten a 2-3 turn clock.
I likely wouldn't run it because I don't want to mislead players into thinking there are any other Infect cards, but I just remember him being a good even in decks that weren't necessarily Infect.
If I were to do this, I would choose Blightwidow over the Wolf, that card was excellent even as the only infect creature in a deck during its limited format. I wouldn't want to play 3 mana 2/2 wither defender that can draw a card when it trades in my deck, but I would want to play a 2/4 reach defender wither. That said, I wouldn't play any of them for the reasons you listed.
If I were to do this, I would choose Blightwidow over the Wolf, that card was excellent even as the only infect creature in a deck during its limited format. I wouldn't want to play 3 mana 2/2 wither defender that can draw a card when it trades in my deck, but I would want to play a 2/4 reach defender wither. That said, I wouldn't play any of them for the reasons you listed.
Rock slide, on the other hand, seems very mediocre. I see it being an awkward heat ray most of the time, hardly ever going to net a 2-for-1. But I haven't played with it.
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6 Act of Treason
5 Giantbaiting
5 Traitorous Instinct
4 Nightbird Clutches
4 Crusher Zendikon
3 Molten Rain
3 Weapon Surge
3 Brute Force
2 Krenko's Command
2 Stone Rain
2 Zektar Shrine Expedition
2 Traitorous Blood
2 Dragon Fodder
1 Dynacharge
1 Gorilla War Cry
1 Trumpet Blast
1 Desperate Ritual
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Hostile Realm
1 Pyretic Ritual
1 Ruthless Invasion
1 Seething Song
1 Smelt
1 Thactcher Revolt
1 Wild Guess
I'm assuming that Lightning Bolt and Rolling Thunder not being 100% might be because of power level concerns but for whatever reason Magma Burst just doesn't see a high rate of inclusion.
Wow, really? I had it in consideration for a while but thought it didn't look good enough, I'll have to find a copy and try it out.
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I was surprised to find that it rated so low. I wasn't aware that it was considered a staple but it is definitely a strong card although we don't think playing it as a Searing Blaze is particularly great.
Rockslide should be in your cube, X=4 would be lights out against most of your white or black based aggros
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Ok, I'll give it a try when I have a chance to get a copy. Thanks for the tip.
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Clutches good.
If you want a similar effect, the "non artifact dudes can't block" new phyrexia or "non-gold dude can't block" spells are both pretty good in cubes where artifact dudes and/or gold dudes are not particularly common.
I'm still running Giant Growth only because I like the original Boons. From a pure flavour perspective it's great, and still playable.
Indeed. I still run Lightning Bolt, Dark Ritual which, while not a high pick, it is a great hook for people new to pauper cubing (as in, showing them a pack with dark ritual in it alongside other things works well to draw them into the format, as many have an idea that pauper cube is very low in its power level), Giant Growth (which still manages to suprise every time I think it is almost too bad to run anymore). I am trying to find white and blue "boons" that would still be decent. At the moment I am considering either Brainstorm or Ponder to be the "blue boon", as Brainstorm is a draw 3 with a downside (but has the important 3 printed on it, as well as the downside sometimes being an upside) and Ponder honestly feels very "boony" to me (it feels almost like an attempt at a more balanced Ancestral Recall). I am still unsure what the white boon should be, Healing Salve just doesn't do it for me (or anyone, I guess).
But Deadly Recluse isn't a guaranteed 1 for 1. Most removal spells don't lose to first strike, white tappers, intimidate/unblockable or half of a removal spell (Staggershock, Firebolt, Crippling Fatigue, Arc Lightning, etc...).
For white boons, there's Pollen Remedy which doesn't look like much of an improvement over Healing Salve at first glance, but splitting damage prevention among multiple creatures at least has the potential for a blowout in your favor. I'm testing it right now as part of a land-sacrifice cycle. Or if you're OK with a color-shifted boon you could always go with Sunlance.
I see this as a metagaming solution to the current love affair with Hexproof, and then looking at the context as it pertains to the 'defensive' or 'controlling' side of green.
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I would agree. Out of the 3 I only run Ambush Viper because of it's flexibility as both an evasive 2/1 and an instant speed trick. I would also prefer the Thornweald Archer over Deadly Recluse but I guess if you're looking for that defensive kill spell Deadly Recluse might look more enticing because it doesn't die to every pinger and half of a Lava Dart. I would probably throw Nightshade Peddler into the mix as well if we were to put this discussion into the This or That thread.
Also, I don't think any of the things I mentioned are corner cases. They are things that come up in every game of pauper cube. Also, giving your opponent who is playing black/white/red to "counter" your removal with their removal is worse than straight up playing a removal spell when in late game top deck mode. Being able to trade their burn spell so that you can't deal with their 4/4 is very much so in their favor.
I like Al's idea and can understand his point; combat tricks just don't stack up to removal, even in Green's case. Green has received a lot of viable, albeit conditional, removal that is making its bread and butter combat tricks pale, particularly when Green's identity is stretched in three or four directions.
I've been considering a different direction; removing all but the most valuable removal to include more combat tricks, encouraging more creature interactions and mind games between opponents. As a basic rule I was considering dropping all removal cc3 and above, and work from there to find balance.
Runner makes a highly valuable point and I consider it the answer to my question.
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Nimbus Naiad was solid, I didn't see it in play often enough to know just how good but I know it did some work. My other new additions never came up, either because no one was in the deck for them (red aggro was absent for the first time in a long time) or they weren't in the draft pool to begin with since it was a 6-man.
It had been way too long since I cubed, the fire is rekindled and I just want to draft again. I'm really happy with the way my list feels both in the draft portion and in the gameplay at this point, which makes me really happy, and I had some new drafters say they loved it. No one gets a truly bad deck ever, which I guess is a merit of pauper cubing.
That said there were a couple cards that seemed lackluster, the one I remember most was Plover Knights, I'm not sure how I feel about that card in my 360. Thoughts?
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Loose Change Pauper Cube-cast
Pauper Cube Article #1
Pauper Cube Article #2
Personal Enjoyment Cube
If I were to do this, I would choose Blightwidow over the Wolf, that card was excellent even as the only infect creature in a deck during its limited format. I wouldn't want to play 3 mana 2/2 wither defender that can draw a card when it trades in my deck, but I would want to play a 2/4 reach defender wither. That said, I wouldn't play any of them for the reasons you listed.
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I for certain wouldn't run either of those cards.
Draft it on Cubetutor!