-Dynacharge, Weapon Surge, Trumpet Blast
work well with the general, play 2-drops/3-drops and turn them sideways game plan of Red, while also working extra well with
-Krenko's Command, Dragon Fodder, Mogg War Marshal, Emrakul's Hatcher
The first three are all still 2-power for 2-mana but work extra well with the team pumps and Hatcher and War Marshall help the control end of the spectrum that Red finds itself in fairly often by providing lots of blockers (Hatcher is actually way underrated imo)
All those tokens and goblin tokens continue the synergistic Red design with
-Artillerize and Goblin GrenadeIn order to make Artillerize a little more potent I've included all three
-Act of Treason, Traitorous Instinct, and Traitorous Blood
Seven/eight mana is a good chunk but the more midrange Red decks will definitely be happy. And to finish things off
-Hissing Iguanar , Rukh Egg and Fling are also included
Kruin Striker and Sparksmith enjoy the token producers as, and I have seen a Kruin Striker get in after a Hatcher was cast in a GR midrange deck. 6/1 trample out of nowhere from a creature you thought was past the point of relevance was pretty awesome. Fireballs + Hatcher is amazing of course.
EDIT: Forgot to mention that Black has access to Carrion Feeder, Nantuko Husk and Bloodflow Connoisseur at the moment just to see how they work. And to help them, Viscera Dragger, Rotting Rats, Cry of Contrition, and Ravenous Rats all interact nicely with Sac Outlets. The Connoisseur has been pretty bad so far and will likely come out for another Husk variant. The discard aspect of black is very new so we'll see.
I'm recently on a sub-theme binge lately (going from supporting no sub-themes to supporting rebels, auras to some degree as well as adding Goblin Matron and Rush of Knowlege and enough support to make them build-around-me cards), so I'd like to see how these archetypes work out. I'd suggest Devouring Swarm and maybe Bequeathal.
True, especially that last line. Adding the Tarfire and Nameless Inversion makes it much more interesting. Keep us updated on how it goes!
Works for me in pauper cube.
Matron also gets Warren Weirding for removal. And any changeling. They are mostly kind of weak in pauper, but there's a firebreather, a wind drake, a blue pump spell, a 4/4 trample, and so on.
-Dynacharge, Weapon Surge, Trumpet Blast
work well with the general, play 2-drops/3-drops and turn them sideways game plan of Red, while also working extra well with
-Krenko's Command, Dragon Fodder, Mogg War Marshal, Emrakul's Hatcher
The first three are all still 2-power for 2-mana but work extra well with the team pumps and Hatcher and War Marshall help the control end of the spectrum that Red finds itself in fairly often by providing lots of blockers (Hatcher is actually way underrated imo)
All those tokens and goblin tokens continue the synergistic Red design with
-Artillerize and Goblin Grenade
In order to make Artillerize a little more potent I've included all three
-Act of Treason, Traitorous Instinct, and Traitorous Blood
Seven/eight mana is a good chunk but the more midrange Red decks will definitely be happy. And to finish things off
-Hissing Iguanar , Rukh Egg and Fling are also included
Kruin Striker and Sparksmith enjoy the token producers as, and I have seen a Kruin Striker get in after a Hatcher was cast in a GR midrange deck. 6/1 trample out of nowhere from a creature you thought was past the point of relevance was pretty awesome. Fireballs + Hatcher is amazing of course.
EDIT: Forgot to mention that Black has access to Carrion Feeder, Nantuko Husk and Bloodflow Connoisseur at the moment just to see how they work. And to help them, Viscera Dragger, Rotting Rats, Cry of Contrition, and Ravenous Rats all interact nicely with Sac Outlets. The Connoisseur has been pretty bad so far and will likely come out for another Husk variant. The discard aspect of black is very new so we'll see.
How is Fling treating you? It sounds like a fun shenanigans card and I can probably find room for it in my 450.
I've also been running Dynacharge but Weapon Surge seems like a MUCH better blowout, especially on stalled board states. With all the 2-3 toughness Creatures in my cube +1/+0 and FS is huge if you've got a mirrored board.
I'm recently on a sub-theme binge lately (going from supporting no sub-themes to supporting rebels, auras to some degree as well as adding Goblin Matron and Rush of Knowlege and enough support to make them build-around-me cards), so I'd like to see how these archetypes work out. I'd suggest Devouring Swarm and maybe Bequeathal.
I had mixed reviews about Bequeathal. MOST of the time, it'd turn out to be a terrible top deck and even then, there were so many ways around it - even more than you'd think. The times it DID work out though we're awesome, but it was less often than I wanted it to be.
The difference is, that the Casting is black. Green needs a second color to have access to spot removal spells, while black already got a lot of removal spells and combined with another color it has even more, to enable the Aura.
That is the difference, but what they have in common is that they're both terrible.
The Tiger doesn't really fit the identity I want right now for Green, but I'll consider adding it later.
I'll probably take out the Acolyte for now, it's just a blocker at this point.
Also, you've recommended Trollhide and Silhouette to me before and they're high on my list for things to be added, but as of now Hexproof beasts (also under your recommendation) have been doing MAD WORK by themselves. You put a Rancor or Armadillo cloak on either one of those guys and it's already GG.
Edit Holy crap, I also just realized Temple Acolyte had his text errata'd from "When he enters from your hand" to "When he enters", that's actually a pretty big deal since I've been running the Portal version of the card (which is using the old text).
I just included the Tiger, because I realised, that it's at least a 3/2 with the ability of Dawn Elemental, as long as it has Vulshok Morningstar or one of the +2/+2 auras on it, while it's even more threating if it's a 5/4 or 4/3, when your opponent knows, that he needs to damage it twice, just to make it invincible to damage. I need it as a solid aura carrier, that is burn immune.
The big difference between the Tiger and the Nomad is, that the Tiger is good on it's own. At first it's a 3/2 and than still a 2/1. The Nomad becomes a "not very useful" 1/1 Vanilla. The Nomad is nearly the exact same card as Safehold Elite, with the difference, that it can become invincible to damage with and aura or equipment aswell.
Meh, I don't know if it's fair to compare the two. First, there is a difference in CMC so playability on turn 2 or 3 is a thing.
Second, in accordance to how many times each one can block is almost the same; Even after the Tiger blocks once he still dies to a 1/1, just like the Phantom. The only REAL difference in terms of blocking is the Tiger can trade with both a x/3 and x/2 while the Phantom can trade with a x/2 and x/1 - but even then, you should be theoretically trading with similar P/T creatures throughout the game.
The one thing I do like is the static 1/x on the Tiger though, which is a nice touch. Overall though like I said, the Tiger doesn't really fit the identity I'm looking for in Green...
I like your Hexproof/Regen archetype better, so making room for that first
My cube hasn't many 1/1 bodies, so it's unimportant the the Tiger dies to them. My cube is filled with X/2 creatures, that's the reason why the weakest creatures shall have at least 2 power. Another point is, that 1 power is not enough to deal relevant damage to a player. The difference of having to power, while attacking is huge.
I included the Tiger, because it fits into my green aura topic. I have no idea, why I should include the Nomad. It's definitly not strong on it's own (just like Safehold Elite) and it's simply way too weak, to consider it as a possible carrier for auras. A 2/2 Regenerate ist far less interesting than a 3/2 Regenerate.
I dunno man, 1 CMC less for -1/x I'll definitely take.
The difference is about the same as Centaur Courser (very solid) compared to Silvercoat Lion (unplayable).
The amount of toughness doesn't really matter, because booth are invincible to damage. The Tiger would be terribly overpowered with 3 toughness, because he would have 3 lives. In that case it wouldn't be Common anymore. The point, that it also looses booth its first live to 1/X creatures, doesn't matter that much, at least for my cube, because the amount of 1/X creatures is really low.
A creature that is going be target of auras, doesn't need to be cheap. It's way more important, that it's as solid as possible.
Lol honestly I don't like the Courser OR the Lion I wouldn't cube any kind of static x/x Creature for x.
I've got to say, I love seeing all this talk about shifting cubes more towards synergy and power rather than just pure power. Take it from me: you'll never go back.
I'm with Izor on this one. My drafts aren't usually very large and often only 1/2 of my cube is seen at one time. Putting in cards that are only good with certain other cards seems silly in such circumstances. The only card mentioned thus far to even interest me has been Goblin Matron since running cards like Skirk Commando and Nameless Inversion are perfectly fine for power level. A 1/1 is still pretty meh tho.
EDIT: If you think Coursers arent worth running you're fooling yourself ><
What are peoples' experiences with Sigil of Sleep? It's obviously fragile as an aura, but otherwise on an evasive creature it's insane tempo advantage, and the fact that it works with all of the pingers as well means that a fairly wide range of decks would be interested in card. I'm willing to accept the "dies to removal" card disadvantage if it makes anything it's cast onto a huge bomb.
What are peoples' experiences with Sigil of Sleep? It's obviously fragile as an aura, but otherwise on an evasive creature it's insane tempo advantage, and the fact that it works with all of the pingers as well means that a fairly wide range of decks would be interested in card. I'm willing to accept the "dies to removal" card disadvantage if it makes anything it's cast onto a huge bomb.
I want to try running it soon, I could see it being a thing in 450.
I wasn't listing Goblin Matron as a good stand alone card. I was listing it as the only works specifically with other things card that interests me. There have been a lot of cards I wouldn't play at 450 that you have specifically mentioned unless I was supporting specific archetypes such as Sacrifice/tokens. Krenko's Command and Dragon Fodder wouldn't make it in since I wouldn't be thrilled about running sorcery speed Raise the Alarm. I wouldn't run Casting of Bones, Tarfire, Hissing Iguanar, Artillerize, Goblin Grenade, or Cry of Contrition either among other cards that were mentioned. I definitely wouldn't come close to playing Rotting Rats even at 540 unless I was supporting some serious Pox/Sacrifice brew in pauper.
EDIT: This post is not in anyway meant to criticize your cube because I think it's cool that you have built a unique/themed cube that i'm certain is fun to play but simply a retort to the fact that the mentioned cards are at the same power level as other cards offered at 450 or even 540.
The discussion moving in is based on the recent Phantom Tiger/Hexproof/Aura bits from earlier.
I feel it may either be an alternative to Savage Silhouette/Trollhide or as a compliment to a single, or even both auras.
It competes with Snake Umbra, etc. - Bad
It has Flash to fight the 2-for-1 - Good
It only gives +1/+1 opposed to +2/+2 - Bad
It regenerates for G vs 1G - Good
Overall it may be the 6th best green aura in a 4 Aura slotted cube. But I wanted to 're-examine' the opinions based on the current interest of Hexproof + Aura.
Also, as of the whole sub-theme / synergy thing. This is an interesting idea and such, but I'm personally in favor of just including the best individual cards. This has two reasons.
*snip*
Good subject.
I agree with Izor. I play with a lot of different playgroups and some people aren't experienced drafters. I find it helps out if every card is guaranteed to be good, like at least a 3.5 out of 5. Of course there are still insane bombs that provide some separation from the merely "very good" cards.
Also, when not everyone knows the contents of the cube and it's subthemes, you either have to explain them or have them learn them on their own over several drafts. And even then, the deck might not come together. "Oh, man, I thought I was going to get the R/W tokens deck but I didn't get any Trumpet Blast (or whatever)."
This way, everyone is virtually guaranteed to have the ability to draft a "good" deck. Does it make things a little boring? Maybe.
With such a high average card quality, you can also end up with the problem of too many playables. Very often I have 30+ cards that are easily playable and deck construction becomes an exercise in making some very difficult cuts and building the right deck out of those cards. It's a good problem to have, but still a problem. To fix it, I have been reducing the draft to 3x13 cards or similar numbers to bring back meaningful choices during the draft.
That said, I'm always open to suggestions and I'm currently thinking about experimenting with a different cube list that has the synergies built in and see how it goes. At the very least I can crib some ideas from it to solidify some of the themes in my list.
I think people may be overestimating the amount of changes that need to be made to support archetypes or sub-themes in the Cube. The method to increase the effectiveness of a certain strategy is to include cards that are best within decks of that strategy, but that does not mean that these cards are not also good in other decks.
Whenever I add cards to help archetypes, I make sure that if they are not powerful, they are at least versatile, if not both. Some people seem to associate themes with narrow cards. I support particular deck strategies and archetypes in my cube, but I don't run narrow cards. Whenever I add a card, I think of both the best case for the card, which is usually its application in an archetype I'm looking to support, and I also look at the merely good case for the card, its application in just a deck full of cards. If I can't picture the card being good in that sort of deck, I hesitate to include it.
Of course, my actual ideal solution when making changes is to include new cards to support one archetype that are simultaneously good in a completely different archetype! That may be just me.
I wasn't listing Goblin Matron as a good stand alone card. I was listing it as the only works specifically with other things card that interests me. There have been a lot of cards I wouldn't play at 450 that you have specifically mentioned unless I was supporting specific archetypes such as Sacrifice/tokens. Krenko's Command and Dragon Fodder wouldn't make it in since I wouldn't be thrilled about running sorcery speed Raise the Alarm. I wouldn't run Casting of Bones, Tarfire, Hissing Iguanar, Artillerize, Goblin Grenade, or Cry of Contrition either among other cards that were mentioned. I definitely wouldn't come close to playing Rotting Rats even at 540 unless I was supporting some serious Pox/Sacrifice brew in pauper.
EDIT: This post is not in anyway meant to criticize your cube because I think it's cool that you have built a unique/themed cube that i'm certain is fun to play but simply a retort to the fact that the mentioned cards are at the same power level as other cards offered at 450 or even 540.
Hissing Iguanar has actually been great in my cube - it completely bombs on board stalls and early aggression. My group loves it.
I could see it being good with a little support and it's probably the best card I mentioned but my cube doesn't come to stalled board states very often. I think I might run a little too much removal but there aren't usually more than 4-5 creatures on the board at a time barring something like Sprout Swarm.
Personally, I hate narrow archetypes in drafts like Storm, because those cards are just so narrow in their application. I'm slightly more okay with Blink archetypes, and I think an Aura subtheme just escapes that kind of problem, which is why I'm okay with trying them out. The power level of the cube is very important to me, which is why I am so hesitant to try these things out.
Literally, the only card we've talked about in the past few pages that fits the model of "only good with certain other cards" is Goblin Matron. Everything else is perfectly reasonable in cube for its own power level. They're the first ones out, just missing the cut. Cards you would very likely play at 450, absolutely play at 540.
EDIT: And yeah the Coursers are ridiculous. I play both of them.
Well, we had a discussion about rebels a while ago so they count I guess.
By the way, rebels are extremely powerful and singlehandedly make white from the worst colours to one of the best in my cube. There are slightly fewer searchers than in a modern masters draft (we have 5 in an 8 person draft, when modern masters has approximately 6) but that archetype was incredibly strong in modern masters and we have better rebels to search up. Everyone should try them out for sure.
EDIT: also the problem Al mentioned about not having enough of the synergy cards is not really a problem for rebels, as a deck can only have Aven Riftwatcher and Bound in Silence and still make Defiant Falcon a very powerful card. That's clearly below average for a cube rebel deck, and it's still fine!
so i had my first pauper draft friday night and it was very successful. however, everyone agreed there were some issues. the major problem was not enough fatties; i think my experience with my unpowered cube led me to put the curve too low. that's fairly easy to solve, at least in green, and there's at least a few solid high cc guys i left out in other colors. another issue was the high power level of red and the low power level of white. is that a common pauper experience? does anyone have any advice for dealing with it?
When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
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I'm recently on a sub-theme binge lately (going from supporting no sub-themes to supporting rebels, auras to some degree as well as adding Goblin Matron and Rush of Knowlege and enough support to make them build-around-me cards), so I'd like to see how these archetypes work out. I'd suggest Devouring Swarm and maybe Bequeathal.
Draft it on Cubetutor!
Works for me in pauper cube.
Matron also gets Warren Weirding for removal. And any changeling. They are mostly kind of weak in pauper, but there's a firebreather, a wind drake, a blue pump spell, a 4/4 trample, and so on.
How is Fling treating you? It sounds like a fun shenanigans card and I can probably find room for it in my 450.
I've also been running Dynacharge but Weapon Surge seems like a MUCH better blowout, especially on stalled board states. With all the 2-3 toughness Creatures in my cube +1/+0 and FS is huge if you've got a mirrored board.
I had mixed reviews about Bequeathal. MOST of the time, it'd turn out to be a terrible top deck and even then, there were so many ways around it - even more than you'd think. The times it DID work out though we're awesome, but it was less often than I wanted it to be.
My Pauper Cube ♤ The Pauper Cube Thread Common Knowledge — 1 2
There's always Snake Umbra if you want a superior Curiosity in green.
http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/690
That is the difference, but what they have in common is that they're both terrible.
The Tiger doesn't really fit the identity I want right now for Green, but I'll consider adding it later.
I'll probably take out the Acolyte for now, it's just a blocker at this point.
Also, you've recommended Trollhide and Silhouette to me before and they're high on my list for things to be added, but as of now Hexproof beasts (also under your recommendation) have been doing MAD WORK by themselves. You put a Rancor or Armadillo cloak on either one of those guys and it's already GG.
Edit Holy crap, I also just realized Temple Acolyte had his text errata'd from "When he enters from your hand" to "When he enters", that's actually a pretty big deal since I've been running the Portal version of the card (which is using the old text).
Meh, I don't know if it's fair to compare the two. First, there is a difference in CMC so playability on turn 2 or 3 is a thing.
Second, in accordance to how many times each one can block is almost the same; Even after the Tiger blocks once he still dies to a 1/1, just like the Phantom. The only REAL difference in terms of blocking is the Tiger can trade with both a x/3 and x/2 while the Phantom can trade with a x/2 and x/1 - but even then, you should be theoretically trading with similar P/T creatures throughout the game.
The one thing I do like is the static 1/x on the Tiger though, which is a nice touch. Overall though like I said, the Tiger doesn't really fit the identity I'm looking for in Green...
I like your Hexproof/Regen archetype better, so making room for that first
I dunno man, 1 CMC less for -1/x I'll definitely take.
Lol honestly I don't like the Courser OR the Lion
EDIT: If you think Coursers arent worth running you're fooling yourself ><
I want to try running it soon, I could see it being a thing in 450.
EDIT: This post is not in anyway meant to criticize your cube because I think it's cool that you have built a unique/themed cube that i'm certain is fun to play but simply a retort to the fact that the mentioned cards are at the same power level as other cards offered at 450 or even 540.
The discussion moving in is based on the recent Phantom Tiger/Hexproof/Aura bits from earlier.
I feel it may either be an alternative to Savage Silhouette/Trollhide or as a compliment to a single, or even both auras.
It competes with Snake Umbra, etc. - Bad
It has Flash to fight the 2-for-1 - Good
It only gives +1/+1 opposed to +2/+2 - Bad
It regenerates for G vs 1G - Good
Overall it may be the 6th best green aura in a 4 Aura slotted cube. But I wanted to 're-examine' the opinions based on the current interest of Hexproof + Aura.
Loose Change Pauper Cube-cast
Pauper Cube Article #1
Pauper Cube Article #2
Personal Enjoyment Cube
Good subject.
I agree with Izor. I play with a lot of different playgroups and some people aren't experienced drafters. I find it helps out if every card is guaranteed to be good, like at least a 3.5 out of 5. Of course there are still insane bombs that provide some separation from the merely "very good" cards.
Also, when not everyone knows the contents of the cube and it's subthemes, you either have to explain them or have them learn them on their own over several drafts. And even then, the deck might not come together. "Oh, man, I thought I was going to get the R/W tokens deck but I didn't get any Trumpet Blast (or whatever)."
This way, everyone is virtually guaranteed to have the ability to draft a "good" deck. Does it make things a little boring? Maybe.
With such a high average card quality, you can also end up with the problem of too many playables. Very often I have 30+ cards that are easily playable and deck construction becomes an exercise in making some very difficult cuts and building the right deck out of those cards. It's a good problem to have, but still a problem. To fix it, I have been reducing the draft to 3x13 cards or similar numbers to bring back meaningful choices during the draft.
That said, I'm always open to suggestions and I'm currently thinking about experimenting with a different cube list that has the synergies built in and see how it goes. At the very least I can crib some ideas from it to solidify some of the themes in my list.
Pauper Cube
(Last update: Fate Reforged--March 2015)
Whenever I add cards to help archetypes, I make sure that if they are not powerful, they are at least versatile, if not both. Some people seem to associate themes with narrow cards. I support particular deck strategies and archetypes in my cube, but I don't run narrow cards. Whenever I add a card, I think of both the best case for the card, which is usually its application in an archetype I'm looking to support, and I also look at the merely good case for the card, its application in just a deck full of cards. If I can't picture the card being good in that sort of deck, I hesitate to include it.
Of course, my actual ideal solution when making changes is to include new cards to support one archetype that are simultaneously good in a completely different archetype! That may be just me.
Hissing Iguanar has actually been great in my cube - it completely bombs on board stalls and early aggression. My group loves it.
My Pauper Cube ♤ The Pauper Cube Thread Common Knowledge — 1 2
Well, we had a discussion about rebels a while ago so they count I guess.
By the way, rebels are extremely powerful and singlehandedly make white from the worst colours to one of the best in my cube. There are slightly fewer searchers than in a modern masters draft (we have 5 in an 8 person draft, when modern masters has approximately 6) but that archetype was incredibly strong in modern masters and we have better rebels to search up. Everyone should try them out for sure.
EDIT: also the problem Al mentioned about not having enough of the synergy cards is not really a problem for rebels, as a deck can only have Aven Riftwatcher and Bound in Silence and still make Defiant Falcon a very powerful card. That's clearly below average for a cube rebel deck, and it's still fine!
Draft it on Cubetutor!
also, does anyone have experience with
?