@jonboyjon:
I like most of your changes apart of Riot Piker. That card is simply way too weak. If your opponent simply plays Temple Acolyte or Sea Gate Oracle, you have a big problem.
To give a slightly opposing viewpoint, you could say the exact same thing about most of red's one and two drop creatures but people play them anyway to support red aggro. The Piker's certainly not a staple, but it does fine in R/x aggro decks - this is a format with a ton of x/2s, and first strike is a relevant ability. At the very least, I'd usually much rather play it over Goblin Skycutter.
@k_alk:
First Strike is a relevant ability, but mainly for blocking. First Strike has always been at it's strongest, if you prevent every X/5 creature from attacking, with just Ballynock Cohort and Youthful Knight. First Strike looses a lot of it's power, when the creature can't block, even in red.
It's not the same with a 1/3 body against a 2/1 body, when the 2/1 body dies senseless. The other 2/1 body can still trade X/2 creatures, that attack you and they remain a threat, when you got enough of them and your opponent taps himself out. The Piker is pretty terrible and not cubeable, IMO. The Skycutter is solid.
If the tempo deck has to rely on Ballynock Cohort and Youthful Knight to stop multiple x/5 creatures from attacking, it has probably already lost the game. First strike on purely aggro cards is most relevant as a form of pseudo-evasion to try and get damage through quickly. Removal/tappers/bounce/etc. exist to help handle larger creatures that come down as slower decks try to stabilize - tempo decks just can't afford to let midrange or control decks get into a grindy boardstate because they'll quickly get behind.
So yes, if you don't have enough removal or if you don't have creatures to attack with other than Riot Piker - i.e. if your R/x aggro deck is mediocre overall - Riot Piker's pretty terrible. If you've drafted a decent deck, the Piker should be useful for at least 2-3 turns, which is exactly what those decks want their 2-drops to be able to do.
@jonboyjon: Is your Google Doc cube list up to date? If so, another red two drop to consider is Mogg Flunkies.
I think 1/4 is actually a slightly better body, both in general and because it can make it block better/go in more decks. But I think the W payment pushes it to master's favor.
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The bodies are slightly matched, but the lack of mana on the Master puts it over the top.
After my experiences with Sporemound in M14 prerelease, I can pretty much say that it is worse than Rumbling Baloth IMO, even in the slow-ish format of M14. That might change in the cube but I don't expect that to really happen.
Why not run both? I'm actually running more of these offensive tappers than I am traditional tappers right now. I like the gameplay of this newer breed.
I am definitely in favor of playing with a +1/+1 counters theme, which you could probably guess. I do wish there were more uses for the counters, but I'm fine with most of the cards that gain them or give them because the counters themselves are fine value added.
The two cards I've recently started using to take advantage of the theme are Phantom Nomad and Phantom Tiger, but also because there are ways to gain benefits from using them without counters as well. When there are more viable cards in the future that benefit specifically from counters on similar levels, I will be happy to include them as well.
Did not realize Phantom Nomad and Tiger were invincible to damage when they have some form of static boost, Aura, Equipment, or Trusted Forcemage.
Yeah, they're pretty resilient with just about anything else, which plays well with some other cards I'm using in the cube. Counters brought about my curiosity for the two Phantoms, but considering other cards I've recently added along with them brought them to my attention.
I like Piker. If he comes down early he does some work as most creatures can't block him. He is really hard to block because a Lava Dart allows him to take out an X/3. First Strike is incredibly powerful on offense because not only your pump spells but even your smallest burn spells turn into solid removal spells. It currently is one of the first out of my red 2-drops because I'm playing the 3 token producers (Mogg War Marshall, Krenko's Command, and Dragon Fodder) because I'm trying to get a swarm/mass pump theme in Red with an affinity for the sac theme in Black and minor sac theme in Red.
This also sums up all the reasons he's good.
My M14 experience (a little late but eh whatever)
-Celestial Flare as borderline as I thought. Worse than every 2-mana enchantment removal, not better than O-Ring or Fetters, and I'm not even playing Recumbent Bliss, Arrest or Cage of Hands at the moment. White has enough removal, it doesn't want this one. Only play it if you really want a check to Hexproof/Shroud/Guardian of the Guildpact
-Master of Diversions is a house in the right deck and the right deck should come together a lot easier in cube than m14 Limited. I played UW Beats btw which leads me to...
-Trained Condor being way better than I expected. Not sure it will find its way in the stacked Blue 3-drop section but maybe. I play Scroll Thief, Stealer of Secrets, and Ninja of Deep Hours so he has more synergy in my cube than most.
-Hunt the Weak looked good. 4 mana is a lot but the +1/+1 mattered a lot as well and it's decent removal in green. I dunno. I play Sporeback Troll right now soo yeah (I so wish more of those type of Grafters were common. It's literally him and Helium Squirter that are decent at common)
-Charging Griffin was pretty powerful. May even be good enough for Cube because of the slot it fills. There aren't any good aggressive curve toppers right now in White. The 4-drop creature slot is very lacking (Guardian of the Guildpact being the only good one as far I as can tell). While strictly worse than Phantom Monster, it's in White.
-Sporemound, eh. Unimpressed. Should've been a 4/4.
-Mesenger Drake did some work, as all 3/3 Flyers will do. I kind of like him and may cut whichever current Flash 3/3 Flyer I'm playing to test it out.
You certainly have room for the condor - the two cards you listed after it are certainly weaker, though the synergy is obviously nice.
I personally don't see the payoff for a +1/+1 counter theme being enough for it to be actually worth drafting the cards together.
I think that both Funeral Charm (you're playing a modern cube right? It's legal because it was timeshifted in timespiral) and it's colourshift funeral charm are playable and pretty much every other charm doesn't do enough.
Spellshapers are kind of fun: I always like having the option to pitch a dead card for some value. Here's a mix-and-match cycle I'm thinking about throwing into my own cube when I finally get around to overhauling it.
Syphon Life was just reprinted as a common in Modern Masters, too, if you want another retrace option for black. And speaking of Modern Masters, I've been impressed by this cycle while watching online MMA drafts:
Obviously Sylvan Bounty is outclassed by the deep stack of superior mana-fixing options available in green and should never be cubed. But I'm actually thinking about adding the other four to my own cube, since I do a lot of Winchester drafting and mana-fixing is so crucial in that format. Don't think of them as horribly overcosted spells -- think of them as cheap instant land tutors for each color that do something else if you topdeck them during the late game, long after other land tutors would do nothing but thin your deck.
Blade of the Sixth Pride has been very good for me so I wouldn't advocate cutting it.
I personally don't like Temple Acolyte, Wall of Glare or Suture Priest. At the higher end of your curve, Antler Skulkin and Loxodon Partisan leave a lot to be desired.
In that case, it'll probably be the Acolyte. The Priest has actually done mad work same with the Wall in my meta, but the Acolyte is just boring and uninteresting. Skullkin and Partisan are going to stay just to keep the curve I have going right now which I think is pretty spot on.
Kird Ape is a R/G card because R/G fits into the guild system. Wild Nacatl doesn't because 99% of cubes don't support a tri-color section. It can be just as much a G/W card as a G/R. Kird Ape is exclusively G/R because it blows as just R. There's nothing consistent about that filing.
I am in the process of rebulding my cube from the expandable 720 cube, to pauper.
I would like to know if it is a limit to which is is pointless to cube at pauper? Like will the cards themselves be so drastically less in power from 360-720 that you can't cube effectively?
Also in 360 cube, if you could not afford chain lightning, or sink hole, what would be a good fill in?
I am in the process of rebulding my cube from the expandable 720 cube, to pauper.
I would like to know if it is a limit to which is is pointless to cube at pauper? Like will the cards themselves be so drastically less in power from 360-720 that you can't cube effectively?
Also in 360 cube, if you could not afford chain lightning, or sink hole, what would be a good fill in?
Sinkhole's nowhere near as strong as other pauper cards.
Chain lightning isn't really all that expensive, but just play volcanic hammer then. There's tons and tons of decent 3 point burn spells at instant for 3 too.
Sinkhole's nowhere near as strong as other pauper cards.
Chain lightning isn't really all that expensive, but just play volcanic hammer then. There's tons and tons of decent 3 point burn spells at instant for 3 too.
I agree sinkhole is not that crucial, so I don't feel so bad about it not being there.
Chain Lightning isn't overly expensive but when I can buy an entire section of a pauper cube for it I can pass.
To give a slightly opposing viewpoint, you could say the exact same thing about most of red's one and two drop creatures but people play them anyway to support red aggro. The Piker's certainly not a staple, but it does fine in R/x aggro decks - this is a format with a ton of x/2s, and first strike is a relevant ability. At the very least, I'd usually much rather play it over Goblin Skycutter.
If the tempo deck has to rely on Ballynock Cohort and Youthful Knight to stop multiple x/5 creatures from attacking, it has probably already lost the game. First strike on purely aggro cards is most relevant as a form of pseudo-evasion to try and get damage through quickly. Removal/tappers/bounce/etc. exist to help handle larger creatures that come down as slower decks try to stabilize - tempo decks just can't afford to let midrange or control decks get into a grindy boardstate because they'll quickly get behind.
So yes, if you don't have enough removal or if you don't have creatures to attack with other than Riot Piker - i.e. if your R/x aggro deck is mediocre overall - Riot Piker's pretty terrible. If you've drafted a decent deck, the Piker should be useful for at least 2-3 turns, which is exactly what those decks want their 2-drops to be able to do.
@jonboyjon: Is your Google Doc cube list up to date? If so, another red two drop to consider is Mogg Flunkies.
Knowledge is power, money is power, time is money, you are actually gaining time by reading my posts
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Knowledge is power, money is power, time is money, you are actually gaining time by reading my posts
check out my EDH and Pauper EDH decks here
After my experiences with Sporemound in M14 prerelease, I can pretty much say that it is worse than Rumbling Baloth IMO, even in the slow-ish format of M14. That might change in the cube but I don't expect that to really happen.
My Pauper Cube ♤ The Pauper Cube Thread Common Knowledge — 1 2
Why not run both? I'm actually running more of these offensive tappers than I am traditional tappers right now. I like the gameplay of this newer breed.
The two cards I've recently started using to take advantage of the theme are Phantom Nomad and Phantom Tiger, but also because there are ways to gain benefits from using them without counters as well. When there are more viable cards in the future that benefit specifically from counters on similar levels, I will be happy to include them as well.
Yeah, they're pretty resilient with just about anything else, which plays well with some other cards I'm using in the cube. Counters brought about my curiosity for the two Phantoms, but considering other cards I've recently added along with them brought them to my attention.
You certainly have room for the condor - the two cards you listed after it are certainly weaker, though the synergy is obviously nice.
I personally don't see the payoff for a +1/+1 counter theme being enough for it to be actually worth drafting the cards together.
Draft it on Cubetutor!
The beetle is too weak.
Helium Squirter is fun. Permanent pumps and all your stuff flies.
Draft it on Cubetutor!
In that case I'd either cut the Giant Tortoise or one of the 5 drops (not mulldrifter, obviously).
Draft it on Cubetutor!
My Pauper Cube ♤ The Pauper Cube Thread Common Knowledge — 1 2
Spellshapers are kind of fun: I always like having the option to pitch a dead card for some value. Here's a mix-and-match cycle I'm thinking about throwing into my own cube when I finally get around to overhauling it.
1 Undertaker
1 Firefright Mage
1 Deepwood Drummer
1 Icatian Crier
If you're restricting yourself to modern-legal cards, then I'd replace Waterfront Bouncer with Dreamscape Artist and Deepwood Drummer with Greenseeker. Both of those offer acceptable mana-fixing for the 5-color control deck.
Retrace is another fun modern mechanic:
1 Oona's Grace
1 Cenn's Enlistment
1 Monstrify
1 Flame Jab
Syphon Life was just reprinted as a common in Modern Masters, too, if you want another retrace option for black. And speaking of Modern Masters, I've been impressed by this cycle while watching online MMA drafts:
1 Traumatic Visions
1 Gleam of Resistance
1 Fiery Fall
1 Sylvan Bounty
Obviously Sylvan Bounty is outclassed by the deep stack of superior mana-fixing options available in green and should never be cubed. But I'm actually thinking about adding the other four to my own cube, since I do a lot of Winchester drafting and mana-fixing is so crucial in that format. Don't think of them as horribly overcosted spells -- think of them as cheap instant land tutors for each color that do something else if you topdeck them during the late game, long after other land tutors would do nothing but thin your deck.
Jesus, after reading this I REALLY want it in my 450, but I have NO idea what to cut. Help?
http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/690
Blade of the Sixth Pride and Temple Acolyte are my first two that I want out, but any recommendations are appreciated.
In that case, it'll probably be the Acolyte. The Priest has actually done mad work same with the Wall in my meta, but the Acolyte is just boring and uninteresting. Skullkin and Partisan are going to stay just to keep the curve I have going right now which I think is pretty spot on.
Any other comments would be appreciated!
Green for Phantom Tiger:
Swarch for Tomorrow
Sylvan Ranger
one of your 'monster' 7cc's
I know why you have as much ramp as you do, but you can trim a 7cc, or Tanadon, or a lesser land grabber
Some may contest the following:
Kird Ape should be a Red card, if Nacatl is a Green card, consistent filing IMO
If you use any of the Master's Edition cards, Phantom Monster included seems like a must to me.
Loose Change Pauper Cube-cast
Pauper Cube Article #1
Pauper Cube Article #2
Personal Enjoyment Cube
I would like to know if it is a limit to which is is pointless to cube at pauper? Like will the cards themselves be so drastically less in power from 360-720 that you can't cube effectively?
Also in 360 cube, if you could not afford chain lightning, or sink hole, what would be a good fill in?
Sinkhole's nowhere near as strong as other pauper cards.
Chain lightning isn't really all that expensive, but just play volcanic hammer then. There's tons and tons of decent 3 point burn spells at instant for 3 too.
I agree sinkhole is not that crucial, so I don't feel so bad about it not being there.
Chain Lightning isn't overly expensive but when I can buy an entire section of a pauper cube for it I can pass.
Then, like I said, there's infinite replacements for it. Just pick your next favorite 3-point burn.
Should be easy enough,
this is what I am basing it on.
1 Fireblast
CMC 1
1 Burst Lightning
1 Chain Lightning
1 Death Spark
1 Faithless Looting
1 Firebolt
1 Flame Slash
1 Lava Dart
1 Lightning Bolt
1 Reckless Charge
1 Rift Bolt
1 Fire Whip
1 Incinerate
1 Madcap Skills
1 Searing Blaze
1 Searing Spear
1 Volcanic Hammer
CMC 3
1 Arc Lightning
1 Brimstone Volley
1 Staggershock
1 Aftershock
1 Magma Burst
CMC 5
1 Pyrotechnics
CMC X
1 Fireball
1 Kaervek's Torch
1 Rock Slide
1 Rolling Thunder
I think I'll go with puncture bolt.
(Apparently act like Vanguard cards)
http://cdn.magicspoiler.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/The-Philosopher-Theros-Spoiler-615x837.jpg
Rest of the cards here: http://www.magicspoiler.com/theros-spoiler/
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R Modern Burn
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