I'm pretty unimpressed by imperiosaur to be honest. It seems like in normal games it will only come out at the same time as Hollowhenge Beast would, and bouncelands in particular make it pretty embarrassing.
This might be true, but given some of my recent experience, I've found that even 1 mana differences in the lategame can mean a lot, allowing you to cast two spells in a row/etc. I'll have to test to see how much of a difference this really makes, as well as how often the 'Saur comes down on T4.
Also, this is a ridiculously late reply to metaviolence's point on Essence Drain, but frankly I prefer Tendrils of Corruption and probably Corrupt as over over the Drain. Tendrils is cheaper and an instant with the potential for gaining more life, and Corruption is more expensive but has the ability to dome for 4/5 as a finisher. Not that I play either, although Tendrils could be interesting to try again for the control decks.
This might be true, but given some of my recent experience, I've found that even 1 mana differences in the lategame can mean a lot, allowing you to cast two spells in a row/etc. I'll have to test to see how much of a difference this really makes, as well as how often the 'Saur comes down on T4.
Also, this is a ridiculously late reply to metaviolence's point on Essence Drain, but frankly I prefer Tendrils of Corruption and probably Corrupt as over over the Drain. Tendrils is cheaper and an instant with the potential for gaining more life, and Corruption is more expensive but has the ability to dome for 4/5 as a finisher. Not that I play either, although Tendrils could be interesting to try again for the control decks.
I havent tried Tendrils of Corruption but I do run Corrupt, and it is a really solid finisher, and is often used to stabilise in my cube, as I have quite a few effects to recur it. Very solid card.
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Moldervine Cloak is good. I'm confused by people who don't think so. It doesn't negate the card disadvantage of being an aura if your dude is removed...but card advantage isn't everything*
*Evidenced by powered cubes that run Grafted Wargear.
in what way is grafted wargear card disadvantage? I really don't think these cards are very comparable despite their equipment like boost of stats that they have in common. The 0 cost on grafted wargear is what makes it such a good card. Not that any of this is very relevant to pauper.
I like Moldervine Cloak but I'm inclined to agree with Izor. I think that given enough removal the dredge might even be a bit of a trap to keep buffing your dudes instead of drawing new creatures to commit to the board. Time will tell and I will probably at least give the cloak a test run at 360.
in what way is grafted wargear card disadvantage? I really don't think these cards are very comparable despite their equipment like boost of stats that they have in common. The 0 cost on grafted wargear is what makes it such a good card. Not that any of this is very relevant to pauper.
I like Moldervine Cloak but I'm inclined to agree with Izor. I think that given enough removal the dredge might even be a bit of a trap to keep buffing your dudes instead of drawing new creatures to commit to the board. Time will tell and I will probably at least give the cloak a test run at 360.
It's like you guys don't read the cards or something. Or what other people post. It's not a perfect comparison, but have you ever played against artifact removal? That's one way, one really, really easy to grasp way that it could be card disadvantage. Or against an Into the Roil. Really...I love how you ask like it's such an abstract thought.
Again, I'm not saying it's a great comparison, but I was just saying that just because a card might net you card disadvantage, is not necessarily a reason to dismiss it because in reality, +3/+3 is freaking huge in Pauper and it will make any creature a threat that must be dealt with and if/when it is, you can make the next creature into the same thing.
And if someone loses a game because of "the trap" of dredging this back up over and over when their opponent has clear answers to a single dude, that's because that player is bad and not an actual criticism of the card. Dredge is only, only ever an upside except maybe against a mill deck. I suppose there is a Dredge amount that would make Moldervine Cloak an underwhelming card, but 2 ain't it. Looking at the ability to potentially recast a card as a drawback is ludicrous.
Oakenformis unplayable. It's only ever going to be around one time, no matter how it's answered. "Cloak is just the same card with Dredge on it." Yeah...it's the same card, minus half the card. I don't know where Dredge 3 is coming from, Cloak is Dredge 2. The possibility of losing two random good cards should just not factor in at all. If there are other cards you'd rather be drawing, you don't Dredge...pretty simple. If you're Dredging it, it's because you think Moldervine Cloak would be good with your current board state, possibly making a creature into a must-answer threat and a win-condition. Dredging really isn't losing you two cards, it's not actually losing you any. It's one card for missing your draw step.
Again, if you're worried about the "randomness" factor screwing you over more than +3/+3 helps, that's probably more a fault of your creature-base, your misplays, or the off-chance that you mill your absolute best card and not an actual criticism of the card itself.
You should really calm down a little. Your posts come off rather aggressively when people are just bringing up valid concerns about the card. Yes, I've played with Grafted Wargear against artifact removal and bounce. My friend and I maintain an unpowered cube and have for a while. The card sets you up for a "blow out", which is to say that you lost your 2/1 dude and a 3 mana artifact but it really doesn't happen that often. Unless it's something like Wickerbough Elder or another value creature, they probably are running most of their artifact removal in their sideboard. While it provides the opportunity for your opponent to effectively 2 for 1 you, the card itself is not card disadvantage. A better example of acceptable card disadvantage would be something like Force of Will.
I know this card seems like an unkillable equipment but skipping your draw step to re-equip your equipment is a pretty big concern. If Vulshock Morningstar said - "Equip: (2) Skip your next draw step." No one would play it. In regular limitted when your deck quality was probably not incredibly high and there were cards in your deck you'd rather not draw, this card was pretty decent. Pauper cube has a pretty high card quality and drawing one of those cards is probably better than drawing Oakenform. If Rancor had dredge instead of its passive ability to return to your hand when it hits the grave, it would go from Bomb to Borderline.
I'm not terribly interested in Research. There will be times where it's fine, but I don't think I have a blue card I'm willing to cut for it, given that it's probably going to be playable less often than a typical counter/bounce/dude. Then again, I'm at 360. I can't really speak for other size cubes.
I run Rushing River in my 360 Cube, and it has performed very well. Sure it's no Capsize, but it makes for a good medium to get some major damage through or foil an alpha strike. I rank it highly, not top pickable but still high
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I run Rushing River in my 360 Cube, and it has performed very well. Sure it's no Capsize, but it makes for a good medium to get some major damage through or foil an alpha strike. I rank it highly, not top pickable but still high
I agree with The Cooler on both perilous research and the cloak. Cloak has already proven itself - it was an important card in standard, not just RAV limited. Even Vulshok Morningstar wasn't.
Perilous Research is very good when you have something irrelevant to sacrifice, but that's not very often. It was okay when you could do it with damage on the stack, but now it's pretty costly unless they've pacified one of your guys. It's really good when there's not much of a cost, but if you have to sacrifice something like a 2/2 or a land, it's pretty miserable.
I've never seen a list play Death of a Thousand Stings.
It has been an absolute house in control and has been in my cube since the start. It's bananas with extort.
Similarly for Test of Faith, it seems like kind of a strong effect but it might not do enough on average.
I really like Perilous Research and will be testing this to see if the scenarios where it is good come up often enough to be worth it.
Syphon Life could be a sweet one. Pushes the extort archetype a bit. Definitely testing this, I don't think it's going to be the nuts by any means but could be solid.
Hammerheim Deadeye is interesting but will probably rot in sideboards too often for my taste.
Thundering Giant might be good enough, even though it is unexciting. I've liked Tenement Crasher as a control finisher and this guy costing 5 puts him more in the range for aggressive decks.
Imperiosaur excited me a lot at first but having thought about it and read the discussions, i don't think he's actually great. On power level he might be fine, but I don't think he makes the cut because of gameplay issues.
I look forward to testing Moldervine Cloak and I think it will be strong.
Walker of the Grove is interesting as a split card, but 8 mana is so much and I don't think the ramp deck needs another huge finisher, so this is usually going to be a worse Hollowhenge Beast.
We don't get as much of a shakeup as the Peasant crew does from this set but it gives some new options and I think a few of these have the potential to become cube mainstays.
These cards seem very good to me. Test of Faith will be auto include for me, 2 mana to save, and pump a creature possibly up +3/+3 seems insanely good and I can definitely see this swinging games.
Syphon Life is obviously an amazing finisher for BX or even BXX control decks. Auto Include really.
Walker of the Grove, an amazing fatty, very good to ramp into, plays very nicely with Black GY recursion. Auto Include imo.
Cloak has already been largely discussed, and I will definitely be making a spot for it, not sure about Saur yet, hes not auto include but he has potential.
My $0.02
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Thundering Giant might be good enough, even though it is unexciting. I've liked Tenement Crasher as a control finisher and this guy costing 5 puts him more in the range for aggressive decks.
This one is still an uncommon, unfortunately.
Here are the cards I'm interested in, in order of excitement.
Moldervine Cloak
Walker of the Grove
Syphon Life
Otherworldly Journey
Test of Faith
If they aren't on there, I don't care about them and I'm not 100% on the last three, but they look fine. I've already jabbered on about Cloak, so I'll let that rest.
Really the most interesting card for me is Walker of the Grove. I'm not really looking at it as an 8 mana dude with a 4/4 attached if it dies/gets bounced, which is okay. I'm looking at it as a way to chain out dudes with Tortured Existence, Undertaker, Gravedigger and others. I'm excited about further support for this kind of Dead Dog/rock archetype. And on top of that, I'm excited to have another dedicated control finisher. If we snag a couple more of those soon, I'll be doing something of an overhaul on my Pauper cube to try to support that.
Syphon Life seems okay. Pretty low impact as a control finisher, so I'm a little confused about that talk. Honestly, I'd rather just have a big dude 80% of the time for that purpose. But it does seem quite good in the extort deck that I admittedly have little experience with.
Test of Faith and Otherworldly Journey, not much I want to say about them. I'll test them, look solid enough, but I don't know what I'd want to cut.
There are also a handful of cards from the M14 spoiler I'm interested in, but I'm all talked out for now.
Here are the cards I'm interested in, in order of excitement.
Moldervine Cloak
Walker of the Grove
Syphon Life
Otherworldly Journey
Test of Faith
If they aren't on there, I don't care about them and I'm not 100% on the last three, but they look fine. I've already jabbered on about Cloak, so I'll let that rest.
Really the most interesting card for me is Walker of the Grove. I'm not really looking at it as an 8 mana dude with a 4/4 attached if it dies/gets bounced, which is okay. I'm looking at it as a way to chain out dudes with Tortured Existence, Undertaker, Gravedigger and others. I'm excited about further support for this kind of Dead Dog/rock archetype. And on top of that, I'm excited to have another dedicated control finisher. If we snag a couple more of those soon, I'll be doing something of an overhaul on my Pauper cube to try to support that.
Syphon Life seems okay. Pretty low impact as a control finisher, so I'm a little confused about that talk. Honestly, I'd rather just have a big dude 80% of the time for that ourpose. But it does seem quite good in the extort deck that I admittedly have little experience with.
Test of Faith and Otherworldly Journey, not much I want to say about them. I'll test them, look solid enough, but I don't know what I'd want to cut.
There are also a handful of cards from the M14 spoiler I'm interested in, but I'm all talked out for now.
This sums up my thoughts on it. Archetypes in Cube should really be based on base strategies, Hexproof is a horrible thing to do imho, It promotes unoriginality and locks you into choices. Supporting base strategies, like GY recursion, not only gives you good options for deck building, but also still promotes creativity when drafting a deck.
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This sums up my thoughts on it. Archetypes in Cube should really be based on base strategies, Hexproof is a horrible thing to do imho, It promotes unoriginality and locks you into choices. Supporting base strategies, like GY recursion, not only gives you good options for deck building, but also still promotes creativity when drafting a deck.
Yeah, more synergy is kind of a new thing for me as far as Pauper goes, but this one archetype has been around in mine for a while. It explains why Aethersnipe and a couple standout cards are still in my cube.
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This might be true, but given some of my recent experience, I've found that even 1 mana differences in the lategame can mean a lot, allowing you to cast two spells in a row/etc. I'll have to test to see how much of a difference this really makes, as well as how often the 'Saur comes down on T4.
Also, this is a ridiculously late reply to metaviolence's point on Essence Drain, but frankly I prefer Tendrils of Corruption and probably Corrupt as over over the Drain. Tendrils is cheaper and an instant with the potential for gaining more life, and Corruption is more expensive but has the ability to dome for 4/5 as a finisher. Not that I play either, although Tendrils could be interesting to try again for the control decks.
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I havent tried Tendrils of Corruption but I do run Corrupt, and it is a really solid finisher, and is often used to stabilise in my cube, as I have quite a few effects to recur it. Very solid card.
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in what way is grafted wargear card disadvantage? I really don't think these cards are very comparable despite their equipment like boost of stats that they have in common. The 0 cost on grafted wargear is what makes it such a good card. Not that any of this is very relevant to pauper.
I like Moldervine Cloak but I'm inclined to agree with Izor. I think that given enough removal the dredge might even be a bit of a trap to keep buffing your dudes instead of drawing new creatures to commit to the board. Time will tell and I will probably at least give the cloak a test run at 360.
It's like you guys don't read the cards or something. Or what other people post. It's not a perfect comparison, but have you ever played against artifact removal? That's one way, one really, really easy to grasp way that it could be card disadvantage. Or against an Into the Roil. Really...I love how you ask like it's such an abstract thought.
Again, I'm not saying it's a great comparison, but I was just saying that just because a card might net you card disadvantage, is not necessarily a reason to dismiss it because in reality, +3/+3 is freaking huge in Pauper and it will make any creature a threat that must be dealt with and if/when it is, you can make the next creature into the same thing.
And if someone loses a game because of "the trap" of dredging this back up over and over when their opponent has clear answers to a single dude, that's because that player is bad and not an actual criticism of the card. Dredge is only, only ever an upside except maybe against a mill deck. I suppose there is a Dredge amount that would make Moldervine Cloak an underwhelming card, but 2 ain't it. Looking at the ability to potentially recast a card as a drawback is ludicrous.
Again, if you're worried about the "randomness" factor screwing you over more than +3/+3 helps, that's probably more a fault of your creature-base, your misplays, or the off-chance that you mill your absolute best card and not an actual criticism of the card itself.
I know this card seems like an unkillable equipment but skipping your draw step to re-equip your equipment is a pretty big concern. If Vulshock Morningstar said - "Equip: (2) Skip your next draw step." No one would play it. In regular limitted when your deck quality was probably not incredibly high and there were cards in your deck you'd rather not draw, this card was pretty decent. Pauper cube has a pretty high card quality and drawing one of those cards is probably better than drawing Oakenform. If Rancor had dredge instead of its passive ability to return to your hand when it hits the grave, it would go from Bomb to Borderline.
Not even touching that one.
I run Rushing River in my 360 Cube, and it has performed very well. Sure it's no Capsize, but it makes for a good medium to get some major damage through or foil an alpha strike. I rank it highly, not top pickable but still high
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Same here, I think it's an excellent card.
Perilous Research is very good when you have something irrelevant to sacrifice, but that's not very often. It was okay when you could do it with damage on the stack, but now it's pretty costly unless they've pacified one of your guys. It's really good when there's not much of a cost, but if you have to sacrifice something like a 2/2 or a land, it's pretty miserable.
Draft it on Cubetutor!
It has been an absolute house in control and has been in my cube since the start. It's bananas with extort.
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Bound in Silence is tempting for a Rebels subtheme, which I don't think I want to go for. There's almost enough support now.
Otherwordly Journey I like a lot, and will likely be testing.
Similarly for Test of Faith, it seems like kind of a strong effect but it might not do enough on average.
I really like Perilous Research and will be testing this to see if the scenarios where it is good come up often enough to be worth it.
Syphon Life could be a sweet one. Pushes the extort archetype a bit. Definitely testing this, I don't think it's going to be the nuts by any means but could be solid.
Hammerheim Deadeye is interesting but will probably rot in sideboards too often for my taste.
Thundering Giant might be good enough, even though it is unexciting. I've liked Tenement Crasher as a control finisher and this guy costing 5 puts him more in the range for aggressive decks.
Imperiosaur excited me a lot at first but having thought about it and read the discussions, i don't think he's actually great. On power level he might be fine, but I don't think he makes the cut because of gameplay issues.
I look forward to testing Moldervine Cloak and I think it will be strong.
Walker of the Grove is interesting as a split card, but 8 mana is so much and I don't think the ramp deck needs another huge finisher, so this is usually going to be a worse Hollowhenge Beast.
We don't get as much of a shakeup as the Peasant crew does from this set but it gives some new options and I think a few of these have the potential to become cube mainstays.
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I only count 3 cards that are good enough to discuss for Peasant that got knocked down. Neither crew got much.
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Fair enough. You get to argue about Feudkiller's Verdict while we bicker about Moldervine Cloak, so there's that at least!
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Also, eh, Reach of branches is good enough to discuss (bringing our total up to 4) but I think it loses the discussion (slash testing)
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I'm very tempted to put back a rebel subtheme. Bound in Silence makes it a lot more viable.
Draft it on Cubetutor!
Test of Faith will be auto include for me, 2 mana to save, and pump a creature possibly up +3/+3 seems insanely good and I can definitely see this swinging games.
Syphon Life is obviously an amazing finisher for BX or even BXX control decks. Auto Include really.
Walker of the Grove, an amazing fatty, very good to ramp into, plays very nicely with Black GY recursion. Auto Include imo.
Cloak has already been largely discussed, and I will definitely be making a spot for it, not sure about Saur yet, hes not auto include but he has potential.
My $0.02
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Walker caught my eye, but eight mana sure is a ton, and the 4G version is pretty bad. 4G vanilla 4/4 that dies to bounce.
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Pauper {360} 2013 REVIVAL UPDATE
This one is still an uncommon, unfortunately.
Here are the cards I'm interested in, in order of excitement.
Moldervine Cloak
Walker of the Grove
Syphon Life
Otherworldly Journey
Test of Faith
If they aren't on there, I don't care about them and I'm not 100% on the last three, but they look fine. I've already jabbered on about Cloak, so I'll let that rest.
Really the most interesting card for me is Walker of the Grove. I'm not really looking at it as an 8 mana dude with a 4/4 attached if it dies/gets bounced, which is okay. I'm looking at it as a way to chain out dudes with Tortured Existence, Undertaker, Gravedigger and others. I'm excited about further support for this kind of Dead Dog/rock archetype. And on top of that, I'm excited to have another dedicated control finisher. If we snag a couple more of those soon, I'll be doing something of an overhaul on my Pauper cube to try to support that.
Syphon Life seems okay. Pretty low impact as a control finisher, so I'm a little confused about that talk. Honestly, I'd rather just have a big dude 80% of the time for that purpose. But it does seem quite good in the extort deck that I admittedly have little experience with.
Test of Faith and Otherworldly Journey, not much I want to say about them. I'll test them, look solid enough, but I don't know what I'd want to cut.
There are also a handful of cards from the M14 spoiler I'm interested in, but I'm all talked out for now.
Nope, Thundering Giant is def a common.
Karador, Ghost Chieftain
This sums up my thoughts on it. Archetypes in Cube should really be based on base strategies, Hexproof is a horrible thing to do imho, It promotes unoriginality and locks you into choices. Supporting base strategies, like GY recursion, not only gives you good options for deck building, but also still promotes creativity when drafting a deck.
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Yeah, more synergy is kind of a new thing for me as far as Pauper goes, but this one archetype has been around in mine for a while. It explains why Aethersnipe and a couple standout cards are still in my cube.