I like the extort dudes even though it's off-theme. Probably need more removal, I guess. If it's not obviously a common it's probably because it was a common in some obscure set like ME3.
Pauper Tribal? That sounds and looks awesome. I have no experience with tribal cubes, though, so I wouldn't be able to tell what was worth cutting and what was worth keeping. D=
Pauper is more like the old draft formats that didn't have so many aggressively costed lolpwned haymakers. Think like Odyssey/Onslaught/Mirrodin/Ravnica 1.
I like how if you whiff on a tribe you aren't just totally boned, because the interactions really aren't all that game-breaking for the most part.
GW aggro tends to be one of the stronger archetypes to show up in our cube. I love the GW guild section because it's cards MAKE you want to be in GW. Pair that with white's solid aggro creatures and green's 1 drop mana dorks and turn 4 fatties and you've got a pretty nasty deck
Can I get some clarification on Sapphire Charm? I was looking at the third ability, and I'm not sure I completely understand how phasing works. If I cast this on my opponent's turn choosing mode three, will the creature I target immediately phase out negating any potential attack if I do it before combat? And does it stay phased out for my next turn removing it as a blocker?
Can I get some clarification on Sapphire Charm? I was looking at the third ability, and I'm not sure I completely understand how phasing works. If I cast this on my opponent's turn choosing mode three, will the creature I target immediately phase out negating any potential attack if I do it before combat? And does it stay phased out for my next turn removing it as a blocker?
Yes, it's out until that player's next turn.
502. Untap Step
502.1. First, all phased-in permanents with phasing that the active player controls phase out, and all phased-out permanents that the active player controlled when they phased out phase in...
Second ability you mean. Flying is the third ability.
As long as it's before damage the creature is out of play and deals no damage. That also means you can deal trample damage to your opponent.
As far as charms go it's a pretty good one if you can fit it in. Cycle, combat trick or evasion/blocking.
Oh yeah, it is listed second on the actual card. I was going off how they ordered it for the oracle text, where they put it third to allow for some reminder text.
Thanks for the explanation though! Seems like a nifty card where I wonder if it's any good. I guess it depends on how useful combat tricking with phasing could be, since Leap or Shadow Rift do the evasion + cantrip better.
Maybe I'll give it a little test run and see how I like it.
That deck seems solid. I like 3 colored decks and I already made some good experiences with them. Heirs of Stromkirk, Archaeomancer and Penumbra Spider seem a little bit risky. I always try not to play double mana costs in 3 colored decks, even if the fixing is solid. The Spider is maybe worth the risk, but I wouldn't play the other ones.
How is Rush of Knowledge working over all? With any cc4 permanent it's already better than most of the other common card draw spells.
I didn't list the basic land counts, but the mana was biased towards Green and Red first, so the Spider and the Heirs were not too difficult to cast. Getting Archeaomancer mana was sometimes a struggle, but that card is meant to be cast later in the game anyway, after having already cast some sweet spells to return, so double Blue usually comes around by then.
Rush of Knowledge has been a fantastic inclusion in my cube. Most ramp and control decks spend the early game dealing with threats one-for-one, so Rush lets them rebuild once they're at the point of stabilizing. Both types of decks tend to have defensive creatures around 3-4 mana, so it's at worst a draw 3 for 5, which is about on par with other Common raw card draw spells. It's very easy to draw more than that, including the full 8 with Ulamog's Crusher happening a not insignificant number of times.
In my experience, 3 colour ramp decks never have a problem with double costs because so much of the ramp is fixing. The number of sources is very commonly greater for a 3colour ramp deck than a 2 colour non-ramp deck. I'd only stick away from Hiers as it's generally not very good.
All the tribal discussions made me reconsider Rebels. I like them, but the only playable tutor is Amrou Scout and the good targets are really limited. One rebel is really interesting, no matter with tutor or without, Zealot il-Vec. A white Prodigal Pyromancer. Very unique.
I made great experiences with Cabal Torturer, because black got a lot of hard removal spells, but only so few things, to deal effectively with all the X/1 stuff, that is not really worth a hard removal. White got a lot of hard removal aswell, I wonder if the Zealot couldn't be of big interest.
If you're going to play rebels, I'd certainly play all of the tutors. They're all fine, and given that you don't want to use them in combat for the first couple of turns, Blightspeaker and Defiant Falcon are commonly actually better than the scout.
I'd play zealot if and only if I was playing rebels, to me it's really just worse than a colourshifted tim, but as a tutorable target it's really useful. Ditto about Rathi Trapper - I dislike this kind of tapper to no end in general, but being able to tutor it up makes it a lot stronger. Still, there's only the zealot, the trapper, Blade of the Sixth Pride and Aven Riftwatcher as good targets, with Amrou Seekers and/or Thermal/Nightwind gliders being where you'd have to reach for playables. Nevertheless, I think it's definitely possible to support the archetype.
After a few recent users have posted decks from their cube drafts, I thought this "Post your deck from your latest draft" thread might be appropriate now that our community is expanding. =D
Edit: A 4/4 First Strike body is definitly huge and maybe everyone would include it for cc5, but who would consider it for cc6 (white)?
Talking about Benalish Lancer? I've thought about it lol. I've also been considering adding Macetail Hystrodon to see if it helps some of the ramp/control archetypes.
I don't think it's overcosted. I think a 5 mana 4/4 first strike would be bomb status in pauper. I think a 4/4 first strike is a pretty solid finisher. And the fact that Noble Templar actually gets played rather than cycled more often than not in my cube has made me consider adding Benalish Lancer for testing. The only thing is that while a 4/4 first strike seems near unbeatable in combat, I think the vigilance is a big deal for white finishers which makes me think it might be worth considering adding the strictly worse Maze Sentinel. Same goes for Macetail Hystrodon. Most of the control decks here end up being red 90% of the time so I think he might be a really solid finisher for those decks.
I think the 2/2 for 3 is pretty comparable to having cycling on the card if not even a little better. If you're cycling something for desperation in the early turns its because you're missing land or you just need something to put on the board cause your hand blows. Instead of trying to dig for something, this guy just gives you a 2/2 which trades with quite a few dudes in the cube.
Threshold isn't very consistent around here. There are too many sweet 4-drops already to play him. I'd rather just pick up a 5CMC flier like Castle Raptors.
I'm beginning to value regeneration really highly. What do people think of Gorilla Chieftain?
I'm really having a hard time understanding the whole move towards hexproof creatures and aura themes. I've always felt that, in terms of playstyle and game play, hexproof is one of the worst abilities that wizards ever made. It creates games and board states that are non-interactive and skill-less. This seems to ring even more true in pauper where the lack of available wraths and sacrifice effects make a suited up hexproof creature into a race to the finish situation. The opponent's only option is to try and out race the hexproof creature or hope it doesn't have trample or flying and chump block endlessly with the likes of cenn's enlistment or sprout swarm. Luckily, there is a lack of hexproof creatures to play in pauper and assembling a voltron hexproof creature from your deck would probably take some good draws but should we really award a player for drawing the 2 cards at the same time and proceeding to win the game?
I never really got to play with Werebear before. Would anyone like to give me some pointers on decks he would like to be in the most? Threshold seems like an awkward thing to attain.
Also, I saw the Peasant group mentioned Nest Invader. How do we feel about this card now that it's been some time since it's release. I always felt we preferred the T1 dorks into bigger plays, but could we appreciate a one time mana boost to accel into maybe a 4 or 5 drop while getting a bear in the process?
This one thing that jumped out at me immediately was the synergy with morbid. Securing that death and turning on a Festerhide Boar or Brimstone Volley could be pretty clutch. Otherwise, the extra body could do some other work, like carry equipment, or just chumping out for a turn. Thoughts?
Primal Huntbeast is the worst 4-drop I still play and I'm not sure if Regen is better than Hexproof. Regen is better in combat and Hexproof is better against removal that doesn't kill or prevents Regeneration. Regen is also turned off if you play the creature it on curve.
It's fairly even, but the Huntbeast would have the edge if you were trying to support an aura theme.
On the aura topic, anyone have any experience with Triclopean Sight?
The structure for the aura decks that I have had come together has been G/w/x control. Using regenerators and hexproof guys to go for the long game and have an unbeatable monster on the field. A big factor has been stabilizing while creating that monster. Vigilance is amazing for closing the game out while stabilizing. I was looking through the auras/equipment/creatures that gave other cards Vigilance and Triclopean Sight stood out as an interesting combat trick that also could be a roll player in the Hexproof/Aura deck.
It seems a bit weak. I would like my auras to be at least somewhat playable outside of the aura deck, and this doesn't seem to fit the bill. Vigilance is good but at this point Burrenton Bombardier seems better.
Hexproof for me is Pauper's version of a Rare Cube's Reanimator.
It's been an experiment in actually crafting archetypes from the ground up. Making a deck that exists within the cards of your cube but is volatile. Its power lies in the drafting stage. The deck is very strong if it comes together and rewarding to those who commit to it, but fragile if a few pieces go missing along the way. Do you sometimes get lucky and get a turn 2 Inkwell Leviathan (our version being a turn 4 Primal Huntbeast + Armadillo Cloak)? Absolutely! That's broken as all hell. But it doesn't happen every game, and unless you draft the archetype well, it won't happen often at all. It's rewarding to see it come together and requires a fair amount of risk vs reward in drafting. Of course, I understand if you wouldn't want Reanimator to really be an archetype your hypothetical Rare Cube and therefore wouldn't want Hexproof/Auras to be a thing in your Pauper Cube, hey it's your cube!
Hexproof has so far been difficult to draft well enough that you actually win 2 of your games in a match. I'm not sure which direction I want to go with that. I may abandon the archetype or support it some more, or attack it from a new angle (treat it truly like combo? push it into blue for the card selection). I don't know and sadly haven't gotten to play that much with finals just happening so hopefully with summer I can experiment some more.
I pretty much cannot put it better than myself, which does not bode well for when I write my article on the topic (/steals everything Runner writes without credits mwuahahahah).
The viability of auras as its own deck is just too tempting not to try and support, like Reanimator in normal cubes. If it turns out to lead to unfun games cropping up more and more, it may become a good idea to back off, but for not I want to give it a try. =D
I never really got to play with Werebear before. Would anyone like to give me some pointers on decks he would like to be in the most? Threshold seems like an awkward thing to attain.
Werebear works best in midrange but he's fine in control as well. He may compete with other 2-drops in aggro but the fact that he's a cheap end-game threat is really tempting. So often the opponent will deal with threat after threat and then not have anything for the 4/4 Werebear.
Also, I saw the Peasant group mentioned Nest Invader. How do we feel about this card now that it's been some time since it's release. I always felt we preferred the T1 dorks into bigger plays, but could we appreciate a one time mana boost to accel into maybe a 4 or 5 drop while getting a bear in the process?
This one thing that jumped out at me immediately was the synergy with morbid. Securing that death and turning on a Festerhide Boar or Brimstone Volley could be pretty clutch. Otherwise, the extra body could do some other work, like carry equipment, or just chumping out for a turn. Thoughts?
It's a fine bear but after getting a few more sick green 2-drops we really don't have room anymore. Dawntreader Elk is probably better.
That's pretty much the same approach I use towards foiling as well. I actually have all the big stuff (brainstorm, bolt, daze, sinkhole), just taking care of pieces of smaller stuff a little at a time. That and now foil lands >_>
New to the format, built a pauper cube (360) Please note I haven't actually played the format, so all my knowledge is "on paper" based.
I'm curious why folks are down on Trestle Troll. Most of the evaluations for defenders say something like "would be good, but can't block fliers", while I notice an abundance of X/1's. It seems a must answer in a land of 3/X's and immune to a lot of removal (burn and destroy non-black). Isn't this the "grindy" card, for the grindy black/green deck? It's no Acridian... unless you turn 1 mana dork...
Well I can't believe the stuff that is not I Can't Believe It's Not Butter is not I Can't Believe It's Not Butter and I can't believe that both I Can't Believe It's Not Butter and the stuff that I can't believe is not I Can't Believe It's Not Butter are both, in fact, not butter. And I believe they both might be butter, in a cunning disguise. And in fact there's a lot more butter around than we all thought there was. -Alice Tinker
I'm curious why folks are down on Trestle Troll. Most of the evaluations for defenders say something like "would be good, but can't block fliers", while I notice an abundance of X/1's. It seems a must answer in a land of 3/X's and immune to a lot of removal (burn and destroy non-black). Isn't this the "grindy" card, for the grindy black/green deck? It's no Acridian... unless you turn 1 mana dork...
I play Trestle Troll in my cube, but I think I have a larger multicolor section (5 per guild, including 1 hybrid) than most people. The Troll isn't a bad card, it's just not that exciting. For instance, it's worse than Putrid Leech, Consume Strength, and Sluiceway Scorpion, which means it doesn't make the cut in most 360 cubes (that only play 3 cards per guild).
Pauper Tribal? That sounds and looks awesome. I have no experience with tribal cubes, though, so I wouldn't be able to tell what was worth cutting and what was worth keeping. D=
My Pauper Cube ♤ The Pauper Cube Thread Common Knowledge — 1 2
I like how if you whiff on a tribe you aren't just totally boned, because the interactions really aren't all that game-breaking for the most part.
I *hated* Lorwyn because it was so crazy bomby.
Yes, it's out until that player's next turn.
502. Untap Step
502.1. First, all phased-in permanents with phasing that the active player controls phase out, and all phased-out permanents that the active player controlled when they phased out phase in...
Second ability you mean. Flying is the third ability.
As long as it's before damage the creature is out of play and deals no damage. That also means you can deal trample damage to your opponent.
As far as charms go it's a pretty good one if you can fit it in. Cycle, combat trick or evasion/blocking.
Thanks for the explanation though! Seems like a nifty card where I wonder if it's any good. I guess it depends on how useful combat tricking with phasing could be, since Leap or Shadow Rift do the evasion + cantrip better.
Maybe I'll give it a little test run and see how I like it.
My Pauper Cube ♤ The Pauper Cube Thread Common Knowledge — 1 2
I didn't list the basic land counts, but the mana was biased towards Green and Red first, so the Spider and the Heirs were not too difficult to cast. Getting Archeaomancer mana was sometimes a struggle, but that card is meant to be cast later in the game anyway, after having already cast some sweet spells to return, so double Blue usually comes around by then.
Rush of Knowledge has been a fantastic inclusion in my cube. Most ramp and control decks spend the early game dealing with threats one-for-one, so Rush lets them rebuild once they're at the point of stabilizing. Both types of decks tend to have defensive creatures around 3-4 mana, so it's at worst a draw 3 for 5, which is about on par with other Common raw card draw spells. It's very easy to draw more than that, including the full 8 with Ulamog's Crusher happening a not insignificant number of times.
Draft it on Cubetutor!
1. I have a lot of cards dealing with +1/+1 counters, so I need more creatures that get these without much cost.
2. I really, really, really love that they do the exact full 20 on their own.
If you're going to play rebels, I'd certainly play all of the tutors. They're all fine, and given that you don't want to use them in combat for the first couple of turns, Blightspeaker and Defiant Falcon are commonly actually better than the scout.
I'd play zealot if and only if I was playing rebels, to me it's really just worse than a colourshifted tim, but as a tutorable target it's really useful. Ditto about Rathi Trapper - I dislike this kind of tapper to no end in general, but being able to tutor it up makes it a lot stronger. Still, there's only the zealot, the trapper, Blade of the Sixth Pride and Aven Riftwatcher as good targets, with Amrou Seekers and/or Thermal/Nightwind gliders being where you'd have to reach for playables. Nevertheless, I think it's definitely possible to support the archetype.
Draft it on Cubetutor!
My Pauper Cube ♤ The Pauper Cube Thread Common Knowledge — 1 2
Talking about Benalish Lancer? I've thought about it lol. I've also been considering adding Macetail Hystrodon to see if it helps some of the ramp/control archetypes.
My Pauper Cube ♤ The Pauper Cube Thread Common Knowledge — 1 2
I'm beginning to value regeneration really highly. What do people think of Gorilla Chieftain?
My Pauper Cube ♤ The Pauper Cube Thread Common Knowledge — 1 2
Also, I saw the Peasant group mentioned Nest Invader. How do we feel about this card now that it's been some time since it's release. I always felt we preferred the T1 dorks into bigger plays, but could we appreciate a one time mana boost to accel into maybe a 4 or 5 drop while getting a bear in the process?
This one thing that jumped out at me immediately was the synergy with morbid. Securing that death and turning on a Festerhide Boar or Brimstone Volley could be pretty clutch. Otherwise, the extra body could do some other work, like carry equipment, or just chumping out for a turn. Thoughts?
It's fairly even, but the Huntbeast would have the edge if you were trying to support an aura theme.
nO.
It seems a bit weak. I would like my auras to be at least somewhat playable outside of the aura deck, and this doesn't seem to fit the bill. Vigilance is good but at this point Burrenton Bombardier seems better.
I pretty much cannot put it better than myself, which does not bode well for when I write my article on the topic (/steals everything Runner writes without credits mwuahahahah).
The viability of auras as its own deck is just too tempting not to try and support, like Reanimator in normal cubes. If it turns out to lead to unfun games cropping up more and more, it may become a good idea to back off, but for not I want to give it a try. =D
Werebear works best in midrange but he's fine in control as well. He may compete with other 2-drops in aggro but the fact that he's a cheap end-game threat is really tempting. So often the opponent will deal with threat after threat and then not have anything for the 4/4 Werebear.
It's a fine bear but after getting a few more sick green 2-drops we really don't have room anymore. Dawntreader Elk is probably better.
My Pauper Cube ♤ The Pauper Cube Thread Common Knowledge — 1 2
Pauper Cube
(Last update: Fate Reforged--March 2015)
I'm curious why folks are down on Trestle Troll. Most of the evaluations for defenders say something like "would be good, but can't block fliers", while I notice an abundance of X/1's. It seems a must answer in a land of 3/X's and immune to a lot of removal (burn and destroy non-black). Isn't this the "grindy" card, for the grindy black/green deck? It's no Acridian... unless you turn 1 mana dork...
I play Trestle Troll in my cube, but I think I have a larger multicolor section (5 per guild, including 1 hybrid) than most people. The Troll isn't a bad card, it's just not that exciting. For instance, it's worse than Putrid Leech, Consume Strength, and Sluiceway Scorpion, which means it doesn't make the cut in most 360 cubes (that only play 3 cards per guild).