Re: Hoojo's ratings list
Wow. Just wow. I'm not saying that I agree with all of the ratings, but I shall DEFINITELY be referring back to those posts whenever I look to rejigger my cube in the future.
Re: the new card spoilers
These are siiiiiiiiiiiick, and will be tested as soon I get my greedy hands on them. Extort bear? Heck yes. Instant-speed hybrid Prey Upon? DOUBLE YES. This is exactly the sort of quality I want to see in the rest of the common hybrids from Gatecrash. All aboard the hybrid-section train, baby!
Just for clarity, when the new subforum is made Hoojo's project, as awesome as it is, would not be stickied. It is a great resource, though, and will be featured in the directory in the OP of this thread.
I'm not a fan of the Syndics, but that's nothing to do with its power level and more to do with the design of the mechanic Extort (which I've grown to dislike). The Syndics might turn out to be testworthy. It really depends on how well Extort does, which is going to be the issue with most Extort cards. To test that, Syndics might be a good candidate.
I. love. Pit Fight. Oh dear god I love it so much. But it probably isn't cubeable compared to something like Branching Bolt or the cheap beats Kird Ape and Horned Kavu, which makes me sad.
You can see them as Travel Preparations-esque cards, but frankly I see it more of a bother than not. WB is far too tight, especially if we get a good WB Extort card (BLIND HUNTER VARIANT CMON WIZARDS I KNOW YOU CARD). I'm just going to ignore Extort when evaluating card colors.
@awesome card list.
Is Cenn's Enlistment really better than Sprout Swarm? I have gotten much more value with Sprout Swarm than pretty much any other card.
@ 2/2 extort bear. I'm going to play him as a mono white card. Though I don't like 2/3 of my B/W cards right now. I'm still hoping this set will delever a few decent multicolored cards.
@RG Prey Upon
I like this card, just not sure if it fits. I'm currently playing Kird Ape, Scab Clan Mauler (which I really like), and Tin-Street Hooligan (which is cutable).
@Knightly Valor
a five mana enchantment is a bit iffy to me. I could see replacing Castle Raptors with it. I think I'll add a foil Valor to my Guild shipment.
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Calvin and Hobbes Cube Tutor
I look forward to having everyone's input when the new subforum opens up.
I could see Pit Fight making it in over something like Kird Ape. It would be a tough call but Kird Ape is just a 2/3 on turn two.
Knightly Valor is kind of awkward and not a game changer like other Auras. If it gave First Strike with a likewise token, I think it would have more of an impact. It doesn't make the creature great, just better.
I dunno about Knightly Valor. On the surface it looks strong (albeit a bit expensive) but could very well turn out like Mark of the Vampire (which I must admit I wasn't cubing until I saw the 2012 Pauper rankings and now...well wow.)
I think that (R/G)Prey Upon is the #4 (R/G) card behind Kird Ape /
Also, do you get the token if they kill the creature in response to the cast? I would think know but I'm rusty on the rulings.
You wouldn't get the creature; Knightly Valor needs to enter the battlefield to put the 2/2 into play, and if the creature you're targeting it with dies, then it has no target. And if it doesn't have a target, it fizzles and you get nothing.
I run a peasant cube, not pauper, but I've started a separate section for cards with a single hybrid mana since they can go in 70% of decks (assuming everyone plays two colors, it'll be more or less depending on how many 1 or 3+ color decks you see).
They're really closer to colorless cards than true gold cards in my opinion, even if they "play best" in an on-guild deck.
True a 1/1 won't often get you there, but much like Extort, bleeding 2 or 4 damage off an opponent could potentially mean the difference between a win and loss. And for arguements sake, I've always evaluated Oracle as an Explore with a 1/1 Saproling token. Granted not the most stellar of effects, but by no means mediocre (seeing as with a mana dork on turn 1 lets you play a 5 drop on turn 3).
I will concede to you that Assault Zeppelid is a powerhouse (and he's not coming out of the cube, lets just call it a 15 day DL), but going by my eval above, I'd rather take out a creature for a creature for testing's sake than a spell for a creature. Just a quirk of mine thats all.
I'm not going to cut Assault Zeppelid for the Fish Crab. I'm not as sure about Snakeform and Temporal Spring, but in all probability I will try out the Fish Crab in the Spring's place.
Crableg Shark is definitely going in over Vigean Hydropon, which has failed to impress me. Assuming, of course, that Gatecrash doesn't show us an even better Simic gold card.
What do you guys think of this one?
Leyline Phantom4U
Creature - Illusion (C)
When Leyline Phantom deals combat damage, return it to its owner's hand. (Return it only if it survived combat.)
5/5
My first impression was that it stinks but now I'm not so sure how to evaluate it. A 5/5 body for 5 mana is certainly above the curve for what blue usually gets, but that's one heck of a drawback. Or is it? By the time you can cast this in pauper, it's not like you'll usually have much better things to do with your mana besides recasting it. It has an expensive form of pseudo-vigilance: swing in to deal 5 or eat a chump blocker, then recast it untapped after combat to discourage the backswing. Of course if you block with it you'll lose some tempo recasting it on your next turn and not being able to attack, but your opponent will have to throw a lot of chump attackers at it to keep you off-tempo for very long. And I'll say it again: 5/5 for 5 is HUGE for blue. It can't carry auras, equipment, or an encoded cipher very well, but anything that big generally doesn't need them to wreck face.
I'm not going to cut Assault Zeppelid for the Fish Crab. I'm not as sure about Snakeform and Temporal Spring, but in all probability I will try out the Fish Crab in the Spring's place.
In my mind spring is very much better than snakeform. Snakeform is, in many decks, an expensive and unreliable removal spell while spring is a great tempo card. It's not even overcosted if you hit a land, being able to hit anything else is just gravy really.
But yeah Crableg is definitely going in my cube, assuming it's real
I think the Leyline Phantom is supposed to be an evolve enabler in Gatecrash draft a repeatable 5/5 in a format full of evolve is very close to Gavony Township on some boards, which we all know is insane specially at common.
As for our purposes in terms of Pauper cube I don't think we benefit as much from having to recast a 5/5 over and over again, regardless of his size. Ideally you're using your mana to progress your game plan at that point.
In my mind spring is very much better than snakeform. Snakeform is, in many decks, an expensive and unreliable removal spell while spring is a great tempo card. It's not even overcosted if you hit a land, being able to hit anything else is just gravy really.
But yeah Crableg is definitely going in my cube, assuming it's real
I'm not sure I agree. At least I like Snakeform more than Temporal Spring, and in general I'm more open to playing it in the GU deck ask quasi-pseudo-conditional-removal. I like the tempo Temporal Spring offers but I've never been happy enough with it to play it much. More testing may be warranted.
For me Leyline Phantom would need either some type of evasion (Flying most likely from today's standards), and/or a cost reduction to facilitate it being replayed multiple times within a game.
Since neither of these are what is actually in our reality, then we have what I feel is a mediocre creature, and what most would call "Limited Fodder".
Hoojo - Thanks again for posting up your lists of Pauper cards. This is an amazing project that I think will be referred back to by the community and particularly by new folks getting into Pauper cubes.
I'd like to help out if I can with some comments on these rankings starting with the list of black cards; hopefully these comments are helpful:
Vendetta - The loss of life can a significant issue. This should probably be downgraded to Playable.
Undertaker - is Playable, but not a Staple. Yes it is Tortured Existence with a body, but it isn't a particularly relevant threat.
Phyrexian Rager - This card is good, but seems just Playable IMHO.
Lose Hope - Borderline at best b/c it is outclassed by so many other removal spells with a CMC of 1.
Ashes to Ashes should be a Staple - granted it costs 5 life as well (going against my argument for Vendetta), but the blowout potential of this card is huge.
Crippling Fatigue - This should also be a staple, given the potential of a two for one.
Tortured Existence should be bumped up to Playable. Digging up your best creature late game in exchange for some awful 1 or 2 drop is incredible. It is Pauper's rough equivalent to Survival of the Fittest.
Tragic Slip should be either Playable or Staple - it isn't hard to have this be a -13/-13 for B.
Vault Skirge and Pith Driller are both better than Borderline b/c of the flexibility of Phyrexian mana. These should be Playable.
I don't think Pull Under should be on this list at all; it is too over-costed.
Wow. Just wow. I'm not saying that I agree with all of the ratings, but I shall DEFINITELY be referring back to those posts whenever I look to rejigger my cube in the future.
Re: the new card spoilers
These are siiiiiiiiiiiick, and will be tested as soon I get my greedy hands on them. Extort bear? Heck yes. Instant-speed hybrid Prey Upon? DOUBLE YES. This is exactly the sort of quality I want to see in the rest of the common hybrids from Gatecrash. All aboard the hybrid-section train, baby!
I'm not a fan of the Syndics, but that's nothing to do with its power level and more to do with the design of the mechanic Extort (which I've grown to dislike). The Syndics might turn out to be testworthy. It really depends on how well Extort does, which is going to be the issue with most Extort cards. To test that, Syndics might be a good candidate.
I. love. Pit Fight. Oh dear god I love it so much. But it probably isn't cubeable compared to something like Branching Bolt or the cheap beats Kird Ape and Horned Kavu, which makes me sad.
My Pauper Cube ♤ The Pauper Cube Thread Common Knowledge — 1 2
Loose Change Pauper Cube-cast
Pauper Cube Article #1
Pauper Cube Article #2
Personal Enjoyment Cube
AKA Syndics is white for me.
My Pauper Cube ♤ The Pauper Cube Thread Common Knowledge — 1 2
Pit Fight would definitely be good in green. I love the fact that you can respond to removal with it.
Edit: What do we think of Knightly Valor? It's a sleeper agent of RTR in much the same vein as Frostburn Weird, and I think I want to test it.
My Pauper Cube ♤ The Pauper Cube Thread Common Knowledge — 1 2
Is Cenn's Enlistment really better than Sprout Swarm? I have gotten much more value with Sprout Swarm than pretty much any other card.
@ 2/2 extort bear. I'm going to play him as a mono white card. Though I don't like 2/3 of my B/W cards right now. I'm still hoping this set will delever a few decent multicolored cards.
@RG Prey Upon
I like this card, just not sure if it fits. I'm currently playing Kird Ape, Scab Clan Mauler (which I really like), and Tin-Street Hooligan (which is cutable).
@Knightly Valor
a five mana enchantment is a bit iffy to me. I could see replacing Castle Raptors with it. I think I'll add a foil Valor to my Guild shipment.
Calvin and Hobbes
Cube Tutor
I could see Pit Fight making it in over something like Kird Ape. It would be a tough call but Kird Ape is just a 2/3 on turn two.
Knightly Valor is kind of awkward and not a game changer like other Auras. If it gave First Strike with a likewise token, I think it would have more of an impact. It doesn't make the creature great, just better.
I think that (R/G)Prey Upon is the #4 (R/G) card behind
Kird Ape /
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You wouldn't get the creature; Knightly Valor needs to enter the battlefield to put the 2/2 into play, and if the creature you're targeting it with dies, then it has no target. And if it doesn't have a target, it fizzles and you get nothing.
Well, that's not true.
They're really closer to colorless cards than true gold cards in my opinion, even if they "play best" in an on-guild deck.
Creature - Fish Shark (C)
Flash
Evolve
2/1
A nice set of abilities on an aggressive body. I think I like it.
My Pauper Cube ♤ The Pauper Cube Thread Common Knowledge — 1 2
Definitely replacing the Coatl for me at least, seems awesome. Greater toughness seems easy as to get turn 3
Karador, Ghost Chieftain
I'm for sure going to sub out Assault Zeppelid for this...I don't see Snakeform or Coaling Oracle coming out any time soon.
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I will concede to you that Assault Zeppelid is a powerhouse (and he's not coming out of the cube, lets just call it a 15 day DL), but going by my eval above, I'd rather take out a creature for a creature for testing's sake than a spell for a creature. Just a quirk of mine thats all.
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My Pauper Cube ♤ The Pauper Cube Thread Common Knowledge — 1 2
What do you guys think of this one?
Leyline Phantom 4U
Creature - Illusion (C)
When Leyline Phantom deals combat damage, return it to its owner's hand. (Return it only if it survived combat.)
5/5
My first impression was that it stinks but now I'm not so sure how to evaluate it. A 5/5 body for 5 mana is certainly above the curve for what blue usually gets, but that's one heck of a drawback. Or is it? By the time you can cast this in pauper, it's not like you'll usually have much better things to do with your mana besides recasting it. It has an expensive form of pseudo-vigilance: swing in to deal 5 or eat a chump blocker, then recast it untapped after combat to discourage the backswing. Of course if you block with it you'll lose some tempo recasting it on your next turn and not being able to attack, but your opponent will have to throw a lot of chump attackers at it to keep you off-tempo for very long. And I'll say it again: 5/5 for 5 is HUGE for blue. It can't carry auras, equipment, or an encoded cipher very well, but anything that big generally doesn't need them to wreck face.
My Pauper Cube ♤ The Pauper Cube Thread Common Knowledge — 1 2
In my mind spring is very much better than snakeform. Snakeform is, in many decks, an expensive and unreliable removal spell while spring is a great tempo card. It's not even overcosted if you hit a land, being able to hit anything else is just gravy really.
But yeah Crableg is definitely going in my cube, assuming it's real
Draft it on Cubetutor!
I think the Leyline Phantom is supposed to be an evolve enabler in Gatecrash draft a repeatable 5/5 in a format full of evolve is very close to Gavony Township on some boards, which we all know is insane specially at common.
As for our purposes in terms of Pauper cube I don't think we benefit as much from having to recast a 5/5 over and over again, regardless of his size. Ideally you're using your mana to progress your game plan at that point.
I'm not sure I agree. At least I like Snakeform more than Temporal Spring, and in general I'm more open to playing it in the GU deck ask quasi-pseudo-conditional-removal. I like the tempo Temporal Spring offers but I've never been happy enough with it to play it much. More testing may be warranted.
My Pauper Cube ♤ The Pauper Cube Thread Common Knowledge — 1 2
Since neither of these are what is actually in our reality, then we have what I feel is a mediocre creature, and what most would call "Limited Fodder".
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I'm still adding it, but I'm kinda bummed.
I'd like to help out if I can with some comments on these rankings starting with the list of black cards; hopefully these comments are helpful:
Vendetta - The loss of life can a significant issue. This should probably be downgraded to Playable.
Undertaker - is Playable, but not a Staple. Yes it is Tortured Existence with a body, but it isn't a particularly relevant threat.
Phyrexian Rager - This card is good, but seems just Playable IMHO.
Lose Hope - Borderline at best b/c it is outclassed by so many other removal spells with a CMC of 1.
Ashes to Ashes should be a Staple - granted it costs 5 life as well (going against my argument for Vendetta), but the blowout potential of this card is huge.
Crippling Fatigue - This should also be a staple, given the potential of a two for one.
Okiba-Gang Shinobi should also be a Staple. This card is insane.
Tortured Existence should be bumped up to Playable. Digging up your best creature late game in exchange for some awful 1 or 2 drop is incredible. It is Pauper's rough equivalent to Survival of the Fittest.
Tragic Slip should be either Playable or Staple - it isn't hard to have this be a -13/-13 for B.
Vault Skirge and Pith Driller are both better than Borderline b/c of the flexibility of Phyrexian mana. These should be Playable.
I don't think Pull Under should be on this list at all; it is too over-costed.
Cards that aren't on your list, but should be included:
Innocent Blood
Sangrophage
Ravenous Rats
I plan on trying to go through the others over time, but wanted to start with this to see if it could stir up some discussion.
Sig courtesy of Disappointing Signet Inc.
My Cubes:
Goblin Pile Shuffler's 360 Card Pauper Cube - updated 1/4/2014
Goblin Pile Shuffler's 270 Card One-Drop Cube - updated 1/4/2014