On offense 3/2 usually are bad stats because they trade with almost every 2-drop and even the aggressive 1-drops. So technically you dont want to have your 3/2 costs more than CC2, which then can be considered pretty strong. Wojek Halberdiers
On the other hand, a 3/2 can often attack into various 1/3 defensive creatures and deal a noticeable amount of damage to the opponent if left unchecked.
On defense 3/2 are better, because against removal there is no big difference whether is has toughness 2 or 3, because 3 is the sweet spot for a lot of removal. And you can also trade with 3-drops.
So, the rating can differ a bit depending in which archetype the ability will be used and CC3 is the maximum you want to pay for it. Basically Id say a CC3 3/2 is bad and depending on the abiilty it upgrades to borderline or in very rare cases to cubable.
At least for creatures there should be a way to standarize ratings, like:
1cc: No Changes
2cc: No changes
3cc: Reliquary Monk, Sanctum Custodian Borderline -> Bad
4cc:Elgaud Inquisitor Borderline-> Bad (It only makes 1 Spirit and 4cc for 2 Lifelink is OK in equip/auras) but it is just not enough at 4cc
5cc:Supply Line Cranes Cubeable -> Staple;Staunch Defenders -Bad > Borderline. It is comparable to the Paladin, and has direct, reliable, impact.
What we need to hammer out:
3cc 3/2's - What is the baseline? Borderline or Bad? Is there a different value for different colors?
Side Notes:
Seller of Songbirds vs. Sandsteppe Outcast - Interesting topic for later
Bolster in X/R decks. Sandcrafter Mage turn 3 after say Porcelain Legionnaire or other 3/1's is acceptable. Not great.
1cc: No Changes
2cc: No changes
3cc: Reliquary Monk, Sanctum Custodian -> Bad
4cc: Elgaud Inquisitor -> Bad (It only makes 1 Spirit and 4cc for 2 Lifelink is OK in equip/auras) but it is just not enough at 4cc
5cc: Supply Line Cranes -> Staple; Staunch Defenders -> Borderline. It is comparable to the Paladin, and has direct, reliable, impact.
What we need to hammer out:
3cc 3/2's - What is the baseline? Borderline or Bad? Is there a different value for different colors?
Side Notes:
Seller of Songbirds vs. Sandsteppe Outcast - Interesting topic for later
Bolster in X/R decks. Sandcrafter Mage turn 3 after say Porcelain Legionnaire or other 3/1's is acceptable. Not great.
It was a discussion point Humphrey brought up about a page or two ago. Essentially seeing if there is enough feedback to shift some cards that have been outright replaced, or bump the ones players see as worth more than they are.
It is a simple survey, for now. Just to see interest. If everyone is fine with things as is.. that is easier than giving and tallying opinions
Faithbender - Cubeable 3-3 vote. Unless we get another voter, I will leave it at Cubeable since Al is the creator, I give him tie-breaker.
1cc: No Changes
2cc: No changes
3cc: Reliquary Monk, Sanctum Custodian -> Bad
4cc: Elgaud Inquisitor -> Bad (It only makes 1 Spirit and 4cc for 2 Lifelink is OK in equip/auras) but it is just not enough at 4cc
5cc: Supply Line Cranes -> Staple; Staunch Defenders -> Borderline. It is comparable to the Paladin, and has direct, reliable, impact.
When discussing changes, it would be helpful to include card tags as well as the original rating i.e. Elgaud Inquisitor - borderline to bad. The fringe nature of these cards means they're not very well known even among regular players
I consider the Paladin borderline, as there's at least four other 5CC cards I'd play ahead of it at 540. It's more or less interchangeable with Dawnstrike Paladin.
Bolster in X/R decks. Sandcrafter Mage turn 3 after say Porcelain Legionnaire or other 3/1's is acceptable. Not great.
Any 3/1 other than Porcelain Legionnaire is still going to trade with bears, making the bolster tactically useless. It's mostly only good in goldfishing as it increases your raw damage output by giving your three-drop a form of pseudo-haste
And yes the Seller vs Outcast is a clear cut "one is better", but it is interesting to me that a simple +1/-1 can have such a big difference in playability.
It was a discussion point Humphrey brought up about a page or two ago. Essentially seeing if there is enough feedback to shift some cards that have been outright replaced, or bump the ones players see as worth more than they are.
It is a simple survey, for now. Just to see interest. If everyone is fine with things as is.. that is easier than giving and tallying opinions
Sorry, I meant for each card individually. You did it for Elgaud Inquisitor, but not for the other ones.
And yes the Seller vs Outcast is a clear cut "one is better", but it is interesting to me that a simple +1/-1 can have such a big difference in playability.
Yeah, I figured you might be on mobile. This project is worth spending a bit of extra time on to increase the legibility though. Feel free to explore that +1/-1 angle, although I think it will mostly be useful only for newer players/cubers
It came up in another thread, so now I'm actually interested in your opinion. "What are the P9 of Pauper?" Guardian of the Guildpact, Mulldrifter, Blastoderm and Rancor definitly come to mind for me at first, but what else do you think would deserve this title.
Its funny how you guys argue in one thread that Guardian istn that strong and here its the power9 of pauper. Coalition Honor Guard does way more and is probably the best white creature. Also Troubled Healer is pretty insane.
Capsize is too slow
Rolling Thunder is slow as well.
Sprout Swarm is very strong indeed.
But I think its a bit ludicrous to vote for an imaginary power9
That aside. Most removal is not P9 material. Cost efficient and game changing was most of how the real P9 worked. That said, it is hard to find the equivalent to 5 pieces of Moxen in pauper.
Rancor costs 1 less and gives trample which makes it a lot better. And yes Bonesplitter is better than Morningstar since it costs 2 and Star costs 4. Star is very slow
To me Rancor and Bonesplitter are both P9 material, but Morningstar is a little worse than Bonesplitter (dk if P9 or not).
Of course +2/+2 is better than +2/+0, but Morningstar is way more expensive and even if your equiped creature dies, with Bonesplitter you can always equip for only 1 to the next guy.
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My 490 Pauper Cube
Modern frame only- Common on paper only - no functional copies, no strictly-betters - no subtype-matters
Its funny how you guys argue in one thread that Guardian istn that strong and here its the power9 of pauper. Coalition Honor Guard does way more and is probably the best white creature. Also Troubled Healer is pretty insane.
Capsize is too slow
Rolling Thunder is slow as well.
Sprout Swarm is very strong indeed.
But I think its a bit ludicrous to vote for an imaginary power9
Agreed. No equivalent to Power 9 exists in pauper, and it devalues the label to try and apply it to something like Blastoderm or Snuff Out. You can't seriously try to equate efficient creatures and removal to cards that break the rules of the game like Black Lotus or Ancestral Recall, unless you are trying to say that those pauper cards also break the game in half.
I could see an argument for something like Skullclamp in peasant, but even then, we're talking about something along the same lines as Umezawa's Jitte or Recurring Nightmare - really good cards, fantastic first picks, but nowhere near the overwhelming advantage that Power 9 provides up front.
Loose Change Pauper Cube-cast
Pauper Cube Article #1
Pauper Cube Article #2
Personal Enjoyment Cube
On the other hand, a 3/2 can often attack into various 1/3 defensive creatures and deal a noticeable amount of damage to the opponent if left unchecked.
On defense 3/2 are better, because against removal there is no big difference whether is has toughness 2 or 3, because 3 is the sweet spot for a lot of removal. And you can also trade with 3-drops.
So, the rating can differ a bit depending in which archetype the ability will be used and CC3 is the maximum you want to pay for it. Basically Id say a CC3 3/2 is bad and depending on the abiilty it upgrades to borderline or in very rare cases to cubable.
At least for creatures there should be a way to standarize ratings, like:
5 staple: vanilla stats+3
4 cubable: vanilla stats+2
3 borderline: vanilla stats+1
2 bad: vanilla stats
1 terrible: below vanilla stats
vanilla stats (stats combined)
CC1: 2.5
CC2: 3.75
CC3: 5
CC4: 6
CC5: 7.5
CC6: 10
each upside is treated like an extra stat point, each downside is a loss
T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t
Also, starting with you top 5 'Ratings Changes for White Creatures'. If possible list the card and the new rating in BOLD so it is easier to discern.
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Pauper Cube Article #1
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SPEAK NOW OR WAIT TILL THE NEXT SET:
Faithbender Paladin - Cubeable or Borderline?
Al - Cubeable
Nighthydra - Borderline
Polycotton - Borderline
Humphrey - Borderline
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T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t
1cc: No Changes
2cc: No changes
3cc: Reliquary Monk, Sanctum Custodian Borderline -> Bad
4cc:Elgaud Inquisitor Borderline-> Bad (It only makes 1 Spirit and 4cc for 2 Lifelink is OK in equip/auras) but it is just not enough at 4cc
5cc:Supply Line Cranes Cubeable -> Staple;Staunch Defenders -Bad > Borderline. It is comparable to the Paladin, and has direct, reliable, impact.
What we need to hammer out:
3cc 3/2's - What is the baseline? Borderline or Bad? Is there a different value for different colors?
Side Notes:
Seller of Songbirds vs. Sandsteppe Outcast - Interesting topic for later
Bolster in X/R decks. Sandcrafter Mage turn 3 after say Porcelain Legionnaire or other 3/1's is acceptable. Not great.
Loose Change Pauper Cube-cast
Pauper Cube Article #1
Pauper Cube Article #2
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I do not disagree. I was giving the lurkers their last chance. We have a few who, have been silent through this review.
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I think it is cubeable. Having 4 toughness can be relevant even in the end game. With equipment this becomes really good.
A reason, why you wanna change it, would be nice.
Or are you interested in a Fiora flavor cube? Conspire and win!
Level 2 Judge
It is a simple survey, for now. Just to see interest. If everyone is fine with things as is.. that is easier than giving and tallying opinions
Faithbender - Cubeable 3-3 vote. Unless we get another voter, I will leave it at Cubeable since Al is the creator, I give him tie-breaker.
Loose Change Pauper Cube-cast
Pauper Cube Article #1
Pauper Cube Article #2
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When discussing changes, it would be helpful to include card tags as well as the original rating i.e. Elgaud Inquisitor - borderline to bad. The fringe nature of these cards means they're not very well known even among regular players
I consider the Paladin borderline, as there's at least four other 5CC cards I'd play ahead of it at 540. It's more or less interchangeable with Dawnstrike Paladin.
Warpath Ghoul sees no play. It is bad. Red could maybe use it as borderline, if it had a tribal bonus (goblin). All the other colors' three drops are way too strong (a pure 3/3 in green, a conditional 3/3 first striker in white, 3 power of flying in blue, and straight up unblockable 3 power in black).
High power is almost always better than high toughness. This seems pretty cut and dry to me
Any 3/1 other than Porcelain Legionnaire is still going to trade with bears, making the bolster tactically useless. It's mostly only good in goldfishing as it increases your raw damage output by giving your three-drop a form of pseudo-haste
My Cube (DeckStats)
My Pauper Cube: 540 (CubeTutor link!)
Level 1 Judge
Paladin is 4-3 Borderline
And yes the Seller vs Outcast is a clear cut "one is better", but it is interesting to me that a simple +1/-1 can have such a big difference in playability.
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Sorry, I meant for each card individually. You did it for Elgaud Inquisitor, but not for the other ones.
Or are you interested in a Fiora flavor cube? Conspire and win!
Level 2 Judge
Yeah, I figured you might be on mobile. This project is worth spending a bit of extra time on to increase the legibility though. Feel free to explore that +1/-1 angle, although I think it will mostly be useful only for newer players/cubers
My Cube (DeckStats)
My Pauper Cube: 540 (CubeTutor link!)
Level 1 Judge
Cause depending on that, Lightning Bolt is P9 or not, for example.
My 490 Pauper Cube
Modern frame only- Common on paper only - no functional copies, no strictly-betters - no subtype-matters
Bonesplitter could be another one.
My 490 Pauper Cube
Modern frame only- Common on paper only - no functional copies, no strictly-betters - no subtype-matters
snuff out is p1p1-able, free doom blade is crazy
Edit: (The others being Guardian of the Guildpact, Capsize, Rolling Thunder, and Sprout Swarm, but I haven't reevaluated this in a while.)
http://www.cubetutor.com/visualspoiler/7023
Capsize is too slow
Rolling Thunder is slow as well.
Sprout Swarm is very strong indeed.
But I think its a bit ludicrous to vote for an imaginary power9
T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t
But fun.
My votes: guardian of the Guildpact, Mulldrifter, Blastoderm, Rancor, Vulshok Morningstar, Porcelain Legionnaire, Seraph of dawn, Coalition Honor Guard and Fireball.
Or are you interested in a Fiora flavor cube? Conspire and win!
Level 2 Judge
That aside. Most removal is not P9 material. Cost efficient and game changing was most of how the real P9 worked. That said, it is hard to find the equivalent to 5 pieces of Moxen in pauper.
Blastoderm
Custodi Squire
Mulldrifter
Grim Harvest
Gurmag Angler
Hymn to Tourac
Vulshok Morningstar
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T2 powpercube Value https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/37t
Of course +2/+2 is better than +2/+0, but Morningstar is way more expensive and even if your equiped creature dies, with Bonesplitter you can always equip for only 1 to the next guy.
My 490 Pauper Cube
Modern frame only- Common on paper only - no functional copies, no strictly-betters - no subtype-matters
Agreed. No equivalent to Power 9 exists in pauper, and it devalues the label to try and apply it to something like Blastoderm or Snuff Out. You can't seriously try to equate efficient creatures and removal to cards that break the rules of the game like Black Lotus or Ancestral Recall, unless you are trying to say that those pauper cards also break the game in half.
I could see an argument for something like Skullclamp in peasant, but even then, we're talking about something along the same lines as Umezawa's Jitte or Recurring Nightmare - really good cards, fantastic first picks, but nowhere near the overwhelming advantage that Power 9 provides up front.
My Cube (DeckStats)
My Pauper Cube: 540 (CubeTutor link!)
Level 1 Judge