I brought it up, saying things like "almost as good as merfolk looter" and "this card is really good"
To which the general response was "LOL, are you for real?"
I still have this card in my cube, and it performs very well on a consistent basis.
As far as I could gather from our discussion, two people (Leelue and I) had actually tested it and all the others hated it too much.
I love it, and Leelue described it as "functional. just not good", which means it had an approval rate of between 50-100%.
Here is our discussion from the megathread, with most of the card's pros and cons laid out. Take what citynoise says with a grain of salt. His cube is pretty fast. Take what I say with a grain of salt. My cube is pretty durdly.
…Switcheroo, Arcane Denial, Dreamscape Artist - I don't even consider these cards playable until you are cracking at 800+ cards. Willing to be convinced I am just being stupid about this but you got an uphill battle.
-Is a 1/1
-Doesn't generate card advantage
-Only ramps 1 per activation
-Costs 3+tap to activate (aka your entire turn)
I don't play bad cards in my cube decks because there aren't bad cards in my cube so I am not really going to want to be discarding spells ever. So what am I doing with it? Spending my entire turn to discard a land for a rampant growth? Why not just...play that land? Am I discard spells? Why in the world would I want to discard spells? Is my curve awful, did I misdraft/misbuild such that I frequently get awkward draws?
Best case scenario is a harrow on suspend1 for 3UU that also forces you to discard a 2nd cards (cause not like you are beating down with this guy) or 2 harrows for 5UUU discarding 3 cards. I mean, at no point in terms of activations does this guy become
1.) Mana effecient
2.) Card advantage
3.) Tempo advantage
You are throwing away cards, and time, and draft picks to just die. I can't imagine winning games with this dude in my deck. My cube's aggro decks would beat the ever loving **** out of you while you durdle around, my midrange decks have WAY better engines (that generate card advantage/tempo advantage/both), my control decks go absurdly over the top of a 1/1 that harrows every turn or just snap-kill it right away.
If it was a 2/1 or 1/3, if it didn't have to tap, if it was green, if it cost 1U to activate. Something, anything. This guy is 1 'something' short of playable in my eyes.
it got cut in mine for being bad against aggro
real bad
Only useful in grindfests.
it does fix your mana, in blue.
It does get you out of mana screw and if youre flooding it helps against that. It's functional. just not good.
It seems only marginally good in grindfests to me. Assuming you never throw away a spell and only pitch lands all this thing does is thin 2 lands per turn (since you could have played the land) at the cost of 3 mana/turn and an otherwise do-nothing in your deck. Yes ok it has syerngy with dredge and flashback and stuff sure but not accounting for that - any card can be good if your deck is built around it.
If the game is a grindfest and your grindmachine doesn't generate cards and their does - you lose. I will play any number of games where they get this guy and I get Centaur Glade, Sprout Swarm, Crystal Shard+Anything, Vitu-Ghazi Guildmage, Triumph of Ferocity, Blue Honden, whatever. He is only good in situations where you are going to lose? Wut.
I have never played a deck in my cube that would want this card in it (even 5color-blue or RUG ramp, literally no deck) or would care if my opponent played it. Ever.
Sure it fixes/ramps in blue but if this was a card:
Mana-Ensnaring Canopycover
3GG
As an additional cost to cast ~ discard a card.
Counter target spell.
would you run it because it lets green counter spells! Nope, the card is trash. Does Dreamscape let blue do something it doesn't normally get (ramp/fix)? Yes. Does that make it good? No.
I think we agree the card is bad but I tend to think this is one of the worst cards that people play.
I'm probably not going to be convinced that it's bad, because I regularly have good experiences with it. I'm probably not going to be able to convince you guys that it's good either. That being said, I'm glad to discuss it. Like I said before, it plays very similarly to the looter variants. Like Citynoise said, 1/1 that doesn't generate card advantage. Don't get me wrong, the looters are still a bit better. Basically you invest your turn two for a durdling 1/1 who gives you a huge advantage in any grindfest (my cube). His ability leaves you with two untapped lands, so it's reasonable to look at his ability as costing 1:symtap:: not 2U:symtap:: It doesn't cost your turn whole turn, in fact it only slows you down once (on your third turn by one whole mana). In a control vs. control matchup if the game goes until turn 8, you won't have lands left in your deck. That is a big deal.
Only useful in grindfests.
it does fix your mana, in blue.
It does get you out of mana screw and if youre flooding it helps against that. It's functional. just not good.
Best case scenario is a harrow on suspend1 for 3UU that also forces you to discard a 2nd cards (cause not like you are beating down with this guy) or 2 harrows for 5UUU discarding 3 cards. I mean, at no point in terms of activations does this guy become
1.) Mana effecient
2.) Card advantage
3.) Tempo advantage
You are throwing away cards, and time, and draft picks to just die. I can't imagine winning games with this dude in my deck. My cube's aggro decks would beat the ever loving **** out of you while you durdle around, my midrange decks have WAY better engines (that generate card advantage/tempo advantage/both), my control decks go absurdly over the top of a 1/1 that harrows every turn or just snap-kill it right away.
This is where I disagree with you. Best case scenario is ramping to turn 6 Artisan of Kozilek (discarding what you want back even) off of a single card, all the while slinging removal. He becomes mana efficient on turn 5, which is the turn you have an extra mana at you're disposal. He becomes card advantage the same way looter does: thinning your deck, digging by discarding unneeded cards, improving the quality of your draws. Tempo advantage... okay, you got me there. He might not be for your cube, or your deck styles, but he has outperformed his expectations with me. If you consider Merfolk Looter cubeable, give this card a chance. You might be disappointed, but you should seriously try it.
It seems only marginally good in grindfests to me. Assuming you never throw away a spell and only pitch lands all this thing does is thin 2 lands per turn (since you could have played the land) at the cost of 3 mana/turn and an otherwise do-nothing in your deck. Yes ok it has syerngy with dredge and flashback and stuff sure but not accounting for that - any card can be good if your deck is built around it.
If the game is a grindfest and your grindmachine doesn't generate cards and their does - you lose. I will play any number of games where they get this guy and I get Centaur Glade, Sprout Swarm, Crystal Shard+Anything, Vitu-Ghazi Guildmage, Triumph of Ferocity, Blue Honden, whatever. He is only good in situations where you are going to lose? Wut.
Actually, usually I don't pitch lands to it until turn 5 or later. Pitching spells is fine in the early game, kind of like a desperate ravings. You don't have to use it. Also, games aren't nearly as one-sided as you describe. Pulling out of that situation is very possible, with or without this card. This card is not an engine. Is merfolk looter an engine? not really. Not in the sense you describe anyways.
I literally think Merfolk Looter is also too bad for C/Ube also. So if your argument is that he is a looter that really only costs 1+tap each turn that isn't going to convince me the card is good.
I like my card filteting to either be super high impact (Crystal Ball) or super low opportunity cost (Looter il-Kor).
I mean if you stick a 1/1 on turn2 and are able to have it live for 3+ turns while also casting all/most of your spells, discarding a card each turn, and have an insane fatty I bet it is insane. And if you have double Lotus Petal on turn 3 after a Sol Land and a 2nd land and they BEB your Overmaster but you have the Moonlace...
I can construct an environment where awful cards become match winning. Doesn't mean anything.
I am 100% willing to be convinced that any card is the best card ever and that I am an idiot for not running it (and the reverse as well). Honestly I can't imagine we will ever agree on card evaluation because we have (seemingly) very different design perspectives. Thats fine, maybe my Super-Spike side shows throw with how I think about cube design where I am all about data-based card performance.
I love almost any card that lets me generate "virtual" advantage in top deck mode in the form of discarding cards to turn them into spells. The reason I love them is that they turn every top decked land you don't want into something functional. However, discarding lands to get harrows seems rather counter productive. The best case scenario is that you're thinning lands from your deck. Seems best in earlier turns but I also don't think blue can afford to durdle around casting harrows rather than advancing its board or keeping the opponents under control. I love the idea of the card but it just doesn't quite get there.
It doesn't usually get to the point where you topdeck into land and use it for his ability if you have had him in play since turn two. He takes the majority of the lands out of your deck pretty quickly (turn ~7). Harrow doesn't cost a turn, it costs 1. On turn two he takes your whole turn. On turn three he costs 1 mana total. On turn 4 you break even. On turn five you are ahead by 1 mana. On turn six you have nine mana should you choose not to activate.
I have to agree with Leelue here. In the right environment, it can be okay. It's cute and is great if your cube has a relatively low speed or power level, (or both) but otherwise... not something I'd include at or below ~400, which is all I've built. Can't say which level it'd fit at above that.
My cube is slower than many of the cubes around here, but that doesn't mean any less powerful (necessarily). I think people who haven't played with it much are severely overestimating his tempo costs. He really only puts you behind about as far as looter in terms of tempo, and his impact is nearly (if not even more) as immediate.
No deck playing Dreamscape Artist is gonna care too much about curving, so long as they still get to play a removal spell or counter each turn. He doesn't run so hot in the tempo decks, for the exact reason you mentioned. That doesn't make him bad though. That would be like calling Elite Vanguard bad because he doesn't get much value in a control deck.
If you have say Forbid, Staggershock or Rend Flesh for example then you can't do both. If your hand is choc full of removal and counters, do you really want to turn those into a harrow?
The answer is yes. The earlier you start harrowing the better Dreamscape Artist is. I don't really run counters, but discarding one of three or four removal spells to get a turn ahead on mana is almost always worth it. Also, my cube has a ratio of over 15:9 relevant control spells that cost two to relevant control spells that cost three, so that will rarely be a major hindrance.
Have you played with my cube?
heh heh, I mean, we still get turn five kills maybe 1/5 of the games and turn fours aren't unheard of, but yeah the others all run long. Also keep in mind, my cube is large.
It is certainly an environment for durdles to thrive in.
whats interesting is that you get 2 lands, and the activation is 3, so its almost like the activation is 1 since the two lands come in untapped, this could be good for threshold, and the new mechanic, delirium. cards seems quite decent as long as there are graveyard-type decks
I have come to not hate this card over time, thanks to my other cube list. Being able to harrow is a pretty big deal in blue, but you must be able to protect yourself through a siege as you do it.
Dreamscape Artist Description - It trades 2 cards for 2 cards. The lands don't come into play tapped, so it sort of only costs 1 mana. It fills your graveyard for threshold, and let's you discard other cards that might benefit from being in the graveyard. After a few activations, you really thin your deck of lands, increasing your chance of drawing business spells. BUT, if you play this on turn 2 and activate it on turn 3 to get your engine running, it's 2 turns with no meaningful interaction with your opponent. Only for slower cubes. Anchors - Supports - Graveyard Matters, Reanimatd Matters, Reanimat
I'm semi-intrigued since it's blue ramp that can also be a discard outlet.
Dreamscape Artist
I brought it up, saying things like "almost as good as merfolk looter" and "this card is really good"
To which the general response was "LOL, are you for real?"
I still have this card in my cube, and it performs very well on a consistent basis.
As far as I could gather from our discussion, two people (Leelue and I) had actually tested it and all the others hated it too much.
I love it, and Leelue described it as "functional. just not good", which means it had an approval rate of between 50-100%.
Here is our discussion from the megathread, with most of the card's pros and cons laid out. Take what citynoise says with a grain of salt. His cube is pretty fast. Take what I say with a grain of salt. My cube is pretty durdly.
Fixed
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
Have you played with my cube?
heh heh, I mean, we still get turn five kills maybe 1/5 of the games and turn fours aren't unheard of, but yeah the others all run long. Also keep in mind, my cube is large.
It is certainly an environment for durdles to thrive in.
Yeah, your cube looks pretty quick though.
Idk man, you said death mutation was playable.
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
I'm semi-intrigued since it's blue ramp that can also be a discard outlet.
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)