After reading about Old School MTG, it got me thinking about my old cards that have been stored away for the last couple of decades. I recently decided to dig them out and I started making a cube from them. My original plan was to have an all white-border cube, mostly compiled from Unlimited / Revised / 4th Edition + Chronicles that I already owned and loved playing back in my university days. Then I noticed that I also had a few handfuls of 5th - 7th edition cards in the box, so I stretched it a little to include those. I was looking online at which worthwhile cards were missing and recently decided to spend about $30 to snag 50 or so to drop in there.
I definitely could not afford the moxen / lotus type cards back when I originally collected these. Heck, I couldn't even afford a Shivan Dragon at the time But I've always wanted to have at least one of each of the original dual lands. I never really had a reason to spend the money on them, but it would be fun to have them in this cube. I'm thinking I might start with the least expensive ones and add one a month until I have them all.
I'm planning for it to be a 450 card cube, just to play casually with friends. But I guess we'll see about that once I can draft it and figure out how things are working. This is my first cube project and I wanted to see if anyone here with much more cube experience than me (like, any experience at all!) could chime in with ideas for cuts or inexpensive additions. I'm not really willing to spend more than a few dollars per card (except on dual lands) because this is going to be a very casual cube. It's currently at 484 cards, so I need to cut some to get down to 450. I want to keep the colors fairly even, and hopefully balanced...but I'm not really sure how to make that happen. Anyway, I posted it on Cube Tutor, so if you feel like taking a look, here it is: cubetutor.com/viewcube/39898
The cards that I currently have in hand are in the main cube list. The sideboard is the order that I recently placed for additional cards. Hopefully those will arrive in the next week or so. Any thoughts or ideas would be appreciated. Thanks!
Hi, welcome to the forum, and the best format in Magic! There's no better way to start cubing than to just build something out of what you have on hand and start playing, so you're already off to a good start. It looks like your goals for your cube are more based on nostalgia than a building high-powered cube environment, and that can be a lot of fun.
I did a test draft of your cube, and based on that and a look at your list I have a few ideas for changes you could make that should help your cube play a bit more smoothly. I'm not sure how married you are to white border specifically, but I'll at least try to keep my specific card recommendations to old-frame cards:
Add more and better 1 and 2 drops. I found that I didn't have a whole lot of options for creatures I wanted to play that cost 2, especially in black. I passed up an early Erg Raiders, and never saw anything else that could beat down for 2 in black, or in white that wasn't double white (more on that in a bit). This is especially true in your red section, where you only have 3 two drops. A lot of cube managers recommend having a good balance of aggro, midrange and control to prevent having one type of deck dominating your cube. Without enough aggro support, control decks tend to dominate. Here's a thread for more details, it's really long, but Monkey D. Luffy's first few posts summarize the "rock, paper, scissors" theory of cubing really nicely.
Some 2-drops that can beat down and many of which have interesting abilities you might try:
There are also some solid old frame 1-drops that will help your aggro decks start beating down from turn one, like Carnophage, Sarcomancy, and Jackal Pup.
I also noticed your color sections are very imbalanced, with 80 cards in your red section, but only 60 in your green section. I'd recommend evening them out so that your drafters have a good amount of options in every color.
You may also want to be careful about running creatures with too many colored mana symbols in their casting cost, particularly for 2 and 3 drops. It can be very hard for your drafters to cast their spells on time with too many restrictive casting cost cards, even in cubes with a lot of mana fixing available. Cubing vet wtwlf123 has written a really good article on the problems with color intensive spells and creatures that examines the math behind this.
I'd recommend adding some mana fixing lands to your cube. A lot of cubers like to have about 10% of their cube consist of mana fixing lands, which would be 4 duals per color pair plus around 10-15 5-color fixers. It gives your drafters a lot more options, and since they'll usually be playing only around half of the cards they draft, they'll have fewer dead picks of cards that will just sit their sideboards. If you're sticking to old frame cards, your options are limited, especially for enemy guilds, and ABU duals and Onslaught fetches are really pricey, but the Mirage fetches, Odyssey filters, Ice Age/Invasion pain lands, Tempest sleeper lands, and Tempest pain lands are very cheap.
For more ideas for cards that might suit the nostalgic feel and power level of your cube, I'd recommend checking out Juju's all old frame classic cube and Ravnic's Nostalgia-Pimped Budget Cube. I also recommend any new cuber check out my list of cube staples that cost less than $2 apiece.
Finally, I'd like to invite you to try out the "Draft the Above Person's Cube" thread. It's a really fun way to check out other users' cubes, see what kinds of decks people can build with your cube, and get handy data about the cards that people do and don't like to draft ("Draft Picks" under the "Analysis" tab of Cube Tutor). I hope you find all this helpful. Welcome to cubing!
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465 card Unpowered cube thread. Draft it here and I'll be happy to return the favor.
450 card Peasant cube thread. Draft it here.
It was mentioned above but Elvish Archers seem a necessary addition if just for aesthetic reasons.
At the top end I think there is room for Mahamoti Djinn and Shivan Dragon and you risk getting called out for not including them. Nice white bordered copies should be under a dollar and would be fun upgrades over Sea Serpent and Wall of Opposition.
Since you have a land stealing/ destroying theme that you probably don't want to be too powerful then I think Demonic Hordes fits right in, perhaps for Sacrifice which I don't really see a way to abuse. Force of Nature is probably cooler than Web as well.
That fills out all the iconic top end to go with Spike Rogue's tips for cheaper creatures.
You have some cards that are considered a bit unfun, the Circle of Protections, Karma's, Life Forces, Flash Fires etc. That is what old school Magic is all about afterall. I would either embrace that and put in mind twist and the rack or try and be a little more subtle. Northern Paladin had pretty cool art that could replace Karma. It is really strong against Black but not game over like Karma was.
*All references to art have the revised version in mind.
Thank you both so much for taking a look at my cube! My goal is definitely nostalgia and fun, not power. I'm hoping to get some of my old university gamer friends together someday to have a bit of a MtG nostalgia day with this cube.
One thing...I guess I didn't make this clear in my first post. The sideboard listed on Cube Tutor is all cards that I've ordered from CSI, they just haven't arrived yet and I didn't want to put them in the main decklist until I actually have them in hand. Maybe I should just move them over to the main deck instead of waiting so anyone running a draft on CT will get the full cube. You can view those cards here: http://www.cubetutor.com/viewsideboard/39898
It will definitely include some of the key cards that were mentioned like Shivan Dragon, Mahamoti Djinn, and Elvish Archers. I was hoping the colors would balance a little better once the order of those cards arrive. I will likely cut some from each color as well in order to not have color imbalance like the current 80 red vs 60 green. Probably cut some of the multi colored cards too, like was said.
Some of the other recommendations were of cards from after I stopped playing, so I'll have to check them out. I wanted to stick to white bordered cards through around 6th / 7th edition (when I stopped playing originally), but if it makes the cube better or more fun to extend that to white borders through like 9th / 10th edition, I am pretty ok with that.
Thank you again for all of the recommendations. I want to take some time to look through everything suggested and see what seems appropriate. I'll look at those cards and probably place another order in the coming weeks. Hopefully things will balance out a bit in the end and this will turn into a fun cube!
Thanks for that! I should have been more clear about the sideboard...or just not done it that way. It makes more sense to just have the cube complete on CubeTutor, even if it's not physically complete just yet. Glad to hear it's looking better. This really has been a fun little project and I hope it'll be a good cube once it's complete.
Nice addition with RoKR too, thanks! I'll put that on my list for a future order. I'm still waiting on the current order(s) to arrive so I can sleeve the new cards and check everything out. Hopefully that will happen tonight!
Do you ever come to Japan? I'm out in the countryside, but if you make it over here, let me know and we can draft it! I haven't been to Korea yet, but it's on my list.
That Blinking Spirit and the Mahamoti Djinn really take me back! I started playing in the 90s by cobbling decks together out of the leftovers in my roomie's collection, so I have a lot more nostalgia for cards like these than the Power 9, too.
Your cube looks a lot more balanced now that you've added the "sideboard". I agree with Hermit, feel free to make more tweaks if you'd like, but there's no reason not to play it as is. After a few drafts and watching what everyone plays, you'll get a good idea pretty quickly of what your playgroup does and doesn't want to draft with. This looks like a really fun cube idea.
Do you ever come to Japan? I'm out in the countryside, but if you make it over here, let me know and we can draft it! I haven't been to Korea yet, but it's on my list.
Whenever you make it over here, definitely let us know. Hermit and I play at the same game shop in Suwon (a little ways south of Seoul) on Sundays. If you join us, we'll make sure it's a cube night!
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465 card Unpowered cube thread. Draft it here and I'll be happy to return the favor.
450 card Peasant cube thread. Draft it here.
That Blinking Spirit and the Mahamoti Djinn really take me back! I started playing in the 90s by cobbling decks together out of the leftovers in my roomie's collection, so I have a lot more nostalgia for cards like these than the Power 9, too.
Your cube looks a lot more balanced now that you've added the "sideboard". I agree with Hermit, feel free to make more tweaks if you'd like, but there's no reason not to play it as is. After a few drafts and watching what everyone plays, you'll get a good idea pretty quickly of what your playgroup does and doesn't want to draft with. This looks like a really fun cube idea.
Whenever you make it over here, definitely let us know. Hermit and I play at the same game shop in Suwon (a little ways south of Seoul) on Sundays. If you join us, we'll make sure it's a cube night!
Thanks for the input! Glad to hear that it appears more balanced now. I was hoping that would be the case. I don't know if I'll get to draft it soon, but I'm hopeful. My friends here and I just had a BFZ draft this past Saturday, and I'm not sure if they're ready to backtrack all the way to these old school cards just yet! LOL!
I was really excited by Blinking Spirit, Mahamoti Djinn, and some of the others from this order. They're cards that my friends had back in the 90s, but I never did! So now, I have a chance to have them in my collection, and hopefully also get to have them see play These are definitely the nostalgia cards for me...much more than the power cards. One of my friends had a Mox, and a guy we knew had a Lotus, but other than that, we were mostly playing with goblin decks, counter decks, white weenies, etc.! The fun stuff!
I'll definitely let you know if I make it to Korea. I'd love to go, but money is super tight right now. If I do come out, I'll definitely bring the cube!!
My brother in law no longer lives in Osaka so trips to Japan don't look likely in the near future but nothing is concrete.
I do covet that Shivan Dragon, I paid $20 for one of those back when $20 was a big deal and could get you a dual land.
No regrets other than I don't still have the Shivan Dragon
Edit: It's 1.83 on Puca Trade, may as well.
Too bad to hear that you won't be heading to Japan anytime soon. Osaka is only a few hours from me and is relatively cheap and easy to travel to from here. If you do come over for some reason, let me know!
Did you Puca Trade for a Shivan? It's crazy how cheap some of these old cards are now. It's nice to be able to pick up so many that I never had in the past, but also a little sad that unless it's a key card, dual land, or power card, it hasn't held much value.
Thanks again for the comments about my cube project. I'm really excited about it now that it's all coming together!
Here are my latest additions...thanks again for the help and recommendations! First of 10 dual lands acquired. It'll probably take me more than a year, but I'm hoping to slowly add them all.
Dual land #2 of 10. I hope it's ok if I keep updating this thread as I add to the cube. It's an easy way for me to keep track of things. Thanks for looking!
I posted this cube project here and on Reddit a couple of months ago and got good feedback (thanks!). Hoping to bump it and get a little more help now. I'm currently at 525 cards, but I'd like to cut back to 450. I want it to be streamlined to function well, with good synergies and balance between the colors. I want to keep the feel of the decks my friends and I played back in the early / mid 90s, but I know that there's too much fluff that will never get played included currently. Thinking about cutting pretty much all of the multicolored cards, but that's only 15. Cutting ~10 each from white and red would help bring the 5 colors closer to balanced, but that's still only getting about half way to where I'd need to be for a 450 card cube. I'm still not going to add power or expensive rares, but if you see something cheap that I'm missing that would improve things, I'm open to suggestions. I am going to slowly add the 10 old dual lands...I have the 3rd (Scrubland) on the way from an order now. Please help me
Here's the link again: http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/39898
Thank you so much!!
I made an executive decision and changed my cube to proxy powered. I added Black Lotus, the 5 Moxen, and the 10 Revised Duals, proxying where necessary. The rest of the cards in the cube are official. I also finally cut down to 450 and started sleeving it all up a couple of days ago. Getting close to complete. If anyone has time to check out this version, please let me know what you think! Explanations for my edits are in the cubetutor blog, but feel free to ask questions or make suggestions. Thanks
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I definitely could not afford the moxen / lotus type cards back when I originally collected these. Heck, I couldn't even afford a Shivan Dragon at the time But I've always wanted to have at least one of each of the original dual lands. I never really had a reason to spend the money on them, but it would be fun to have them in this cube. I'm thinking I might start with the least expensive ones and add one a month until I have them all.
I'm planning for it to be a 450 card cube, just to play casually with friends. But I guess we'll see about that once I can draft it and figure out how things are working. This is my first cube project and I wanted to see if anyone here with much more cube experience than me (like, any experience at all!) could chime in with ideas for cuts or inexpensive additions. I'm not really willing to spend more than a few dollars per card (except on dual lands) because this is going to be a very casual cube. It's currently at 484 cards, so I need to cut some to get down to 450. I want to keep the colors fairly even, and hopefully balanced...but I'm not really sure how to make that happen. Anyway, I posted it on Cube Tutor, so if you feel like taking a look, here it is:
cubetutor.com/viewcube/39898
The cards that I currently have in hand are in the main cube list. The sideboard is the order that I recently placed for additional cards. Hopefully those will arrive in the next week or so. Any thoughts or ideas would be appreciated. Thanks!
I did a test draft of your cube, and based on that and a look at your list I have a few ideas for changes you could make that should help your cube play a bit more smoothly. I'm not sure how married you are to white border specifically, but I'll at least try to keep my specific card recommendations to old-frame cards:
Add more and better 1 and 2 drops. I found that I didn't have a whole lot of options for creatures I wanted to play that cost 2, especially in black. I passed up an early Erg Raiders, and never saw anything else that could beat down for 2 in black, or in white that wasn't double white (more on that in a bit). This is especially true in your red section, where you only have 3 two drops. A lot of cube managers recommend having a good balance of aggro, midrange and control to prevent having one type of deck dominating your cube. Without enough aggro support, control decks tend to dominate. Here's a thread for more details, it's really long, but Monkey D. Luffy's first few posts summarize the "rock, paper, scissors" theory of cubing really nicely.
Some 2-drops that can beat down and many of which have interesting abilities you might try:
Youthful Knight, Spirit Weaver, Spectral Lynx, Soul Shepherd, Soltari Emissary, Soltari Trooper, Expendable Troops
Dauthi Horror, Fallen Askari, Fledgling Djinn, Hate Weaver, Skulking Ghost, Black Knight
Canyon Wildcat, Dwarven Soldier, Firebrand Ranger, Hulking Goblin, Mogg Flunkies, Goblin Bully
Elvish Archers, River Boa, Karoo Meercat, Kavu Titan
There are also some solid old frame 1-drops that will help your aggro decks start beating down from turn one, like Carnophage, Sarcomancy, and Jackal Pup.
I also noticed your color sections are very imbalanced, with 80 cards in your red section, but only 60 in your green section. I'd recommend evening them out so that your drafters have a good amount of options in every color.
You may also want to be careful about running creatures with too many colored mana symbols in their casting cost, particularly for 2 and 3 drops. It can be very hard for your drafters to cast their spells on time with too many restrictive casting cost cards, even in cubes with a lot of mana fixing available. Cubing vet wtwlf123 has written a really good article on the problems with color intensive spells and creatures that examines the math behind this.
I'd recommend adding some mana fixing lands to your cube. A lot of cubers like to have about 10% of their cube consist of mana fixing lands, which would be 4 duals per color pair plus around 10-15 5-color fixers. It gives your drafters a lot more options, and since they'll usually be playing only around half of the cards they draft, they'll have fewer dead picks of cards that will just sit their sideboards. If you're sticking to old frame cards, your options are limited, especially for enemy guilds, and ABU duals and Onslaught fetches are really pricey, but the Mirage fetches, Odyssey filters, Ice Age/Invasion pain lands, Tempest sleeper lands, and Tempest pain lands are very cheap.
For more ideas for cards that might suit the nostalgic feel and power level of your cube, I'd recommend checking out Juju's all old frame classic cube and Ravnic's Nostalgia-Pimped Budget Cube. I also recommend any new cuber check out my list of cube staples that cost less than $2 apiece.
Finally, I'd like to invite you to try out the "Draft the Above Person's Cube" thread. It's a really fun way to check out other users' cubes, see what kinds of decks people can build with your cube, and get handy data about the cards that people do and don't like to draft ("Draft Picks" under the "Analysis" tab of Cube Tutor). I hope you find all this helpful. Welcome to cubing!
450 card Peasant cube thread. Draft it here.
At the top end I think there is room for Mahamoti Djinn and Shivan Dragon and you risk getting called out for not including them. Nice white bordered copies should be under a dollar and would be fun upgrades over Sea Serpent and Wall of Opposition.
Since you have a land stealing/ destroying theme that you probably don't want to be too powerful then I think Demonic Hordes fits right in, perhaps for Sacrifice which I don't really see a way to abuse. Force of Nature is probably cooler than Web as well.
That fills out all the iconic top end to go with Spike Rogue's tips for cheaper creatures.
You have some cards that are considered a bit unfun, the Circle of Protections, Karma's, Life Forces, Flash Fires etc. That is what old school Magic is all about afterall. I would either embrace that and put in mind twist and the rack or try and be a little more subtle. Northern Paladin had pretty cool art that could replace Karma. It is really strong against Black but not game over like Karma was.
*All references to art have the revised version in mind.
One thing...I guess I didn't make this clear in my first post. The sideboard listed on Cube Tutor is all cards that I've ordered from CSI, they just haven't arrived yet and I didn't want to put them in the main decklist until I actually have them in hand. Maybe I should just move them over to the main deck instead of waiting so anyone running a draft on CT will get the full cube. You can view those cards here:
http://www.cubetutor.com/viewsideboard/39898
It will definitely include some of the key cards that were mentioned like Shivan Dragon, Mahamoti Djinn, and Elvish Archers. I was hoping the colors would balance a little better once the order of those cards arrive. I will likely cut some from each color as well in order to not have color imbalance like the current 80 red vs 60 green. Probably cut some of the multi colored cards too, like was said.
Some of the other recommendations were of cards from after I stopped playing, so I'll have to check them out. I wanted to stick to white bordered cards through around 6th / 7th edition (when I stopped playing originally), but if it makes the cube better or more fun to extend that to white borders through like 9th / 10th edition, I am pretty ok with that.
Thank you again for all of the recommendations. I want to take some time to look through everything suggested and see what seems appropriate. I'll look at those cards and probably place another order in the coming weeks. Hopefully things will balance out a bit in the end and this will turn into a fun cube!
I started playing in revised so that's my soft spot. I wish you lived in Korea because I would definitely want to draft this cube
I think you could just go ahead and play it as is. I did think of Roc of Kher Ridges as another card worth adding.
Nice addition with RoKR too, thanks! I'll put that on my list for a future order. I'm still waiting on the current order(s) to arrive so I can sleeve the new cards and check everything out. Hopefully that will happen tonight!
Do you ever come to Japan? I'm out in the countryside, but if you make it over here, let me know and we can draft it! I haven't been to Korea yet, but it's on my list.
Your cube looks a lot more balanced now that you've added the "sideboard". I agree with Hermit, feel free to make more tweaks if you'd like, but there's no reason not to play it as is. After a few drafts and watching what everyone plays, you'll get a good idea pretty quickly of what your playgroup does and doesn't want to draft with. This looks like a really fun cube idea.
Whenever you make it over here, definitely let us know. Hermit and I play at the same game shop in Suwon (a little ways south of Seoul) on Sundays. If you join us, we'll make sure it's a cube night!
450 card Peasant cube thread. Draft it here.
I do covet that Shivan Dragon, I paid $20 for one of those back when $20 was a big deal and could get you a dual land.
No regrets other than I don't still have the Shivan Dragon
Edit: It's 1.83 on Puca Trade, may as well.
Thanks for the input! Glad to hear that it appears more balanced now. I was hoping that would be the case. I don't know if I'll get to draft it soon, but I'm hopeful. My friends here and I just had a BFZ draft this past Saturday, and I'm not sure if they're ready to backtrack all the way to these old school cards just yet! LOL!
I was really excited by Blinking Spirit, Mahamoti Djinn, and some of the others from this order. They're cards that my friends had back in the 90s, but I never did! So now, I have a chance to have them in my collection, and hopefully also get to have them see play These are definitely the nostalgia cards for me...much more than the power cards. One of my friends had a Mox, and a guy we knew had a Lotus, but other than that, we were mostly playing with goblin decks, counter decks, white weenies, etc.! The fun stuff!
I'll definitely let you know if I make it to Korea. I'd love to go, but money is super tight right now. If I do come out, I'll definitely bring the cube!!
Too bad to hear that you won't be heading to Japan anytime soon. Osaka is only a few hours from me and is relatively cheap and easy to travel to from here. If you do come over for some reason, let me know!
Did you Puca Trade for a Shivan? It's crazy how cheap some of these old cards are now. It's nice to be able to pick up so many that I never had in the past, but also a little sad that unless it's a key card, dual land, or power card, it hasn't held much value.
Thanks again for the comments about my cube project. I'm really excited about it now that it's all coming together!
Here's the link again:
http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/39898
Thank you so much!!