I see no reason to include the moxen in their colored sections. If you're playing all 5, it doesn't matter if you call them White cards or Artifacts. That relabeling tool is only important once you're deciding to run part of a cycle (like using the new manlands as gold cards and only using 2 of 'em) or when you're using 1 black nonbasic land and 4 blue nonbasic lands, and you need to relabel them for balance purposes. Otherwise, the label is just a label, and you may as well include Mox Diamond in your gold section.
I see no reason to include the moxen in their colored sections. If you're playing all 5, it doesn't matter if you call them White cards or Artifacts. That relabeling tool is only important once you're deciding to run part of a cycle (like using the new manlands as gold cards and only using 2 of 'em) or when you're using 1 black nonbasic land and 4 blue nonbasic lands, and you need to relabel them for balance purposes. Otherwise, the label is just a label, and you may as well include Mox Diamond in your gold section.
The reason is that is makes sense, and it does make a difference because the color sections have not grown, which means that the cube is now smaller. Mox Diamond is of course not gold, it is a fixer - and you can find it in the section 'Fixers'.
If you used 74 of each color and 69 "colorless", it'd be exactly the same, right? That's what I'm saying.
It is basically just a labeling thing since obviously you'll be running all 5 Moxes but the land section actually seems like the most appropriate place for them, they are basically lands during draft and deck construction after all.
If you used 74 of each color and 69 "colorless", it'd be exactly the same, right? That's what I'm saying.
That's true. I guess it's a matter of aesthetics then.
About the Crucible, we don't run Constant Mists and our cube is a lot larger than yours, so it's much harder to get enough cards to make it worthwhile.
Eidolon:
Sorry, we just don't like the slow Ancestral Visions, and Time Warp was just too expensive to be very effective. Trygon Predator was never wow for us, but we'll see how Temporal Spring fares. We don't run pingers, so that's not much of a problem for Infiltrator. But again, we'll see how it does - it's easy to compare what would have happened if it had been a Slayer.
It is basically just a labeling thing since obviously you'll be running all 5 Moxes but the land section actually seems like the most appropriate place for them, they are basically lands during draft and deck construction after all.
About the Crucible, we don't run Constant Mists and our cube is a lot larger than yours, so it's much harder to get enough cards to make it worthwhile.
Your cube isn't that much bigger than mine.
I said I like to use Braids, Smokestack and Mists with my Crucible, and you made the assumption that those are it's only applications. Wasteland, Strip Mine, Dust Bowl, Barbarian Ring, All 10 Fetchlands, All of the Manlands, Armageddon, Balance, Catastrophe, Zuran Orb, Greater Gargadon, Mox Diamond, and simply being used to circumvent some of the discard drawbacks of blue draw spells, masticore pitching, or to aid in the recovery from LD and discard. I rarely ever construct a cube deck that wouldn't benefit from a Crucible in some way.
I said I like to use Braids, Smokestack and Mists with my Crucible, and you made the assumption that those are it's only applications. Wasteland, Strip Mine, Dust Bowl, Barbarian Ring, All 10 Fetchlands, All of the Manlands, Armageddon, Balance, Catastrophe, Zuran Orb, Greater Gargadon, Mox Diamond, and simply being used to circumvent some of the discard drawbacks of blue draw spells, masticore pitching, or to aid in the recovery from LD and discard. I rarely ever construct a cube deck that wouldn't benefit from a Crucible in some way.
Sorry, I thought you had a 360 cube.
Anyway, it may be super for you, but I just don't like the card. I ran a deck with Crucible that also sported Strip Mine, Wasteland, Mox Diamond, Harrow and a fetchland, and I still didn't like it taking up a slot in my deck. I guess it's just personal preference - to each his own and all that.
Anyway, it may be super for you, but I just don't like the card. I ran a deck with Crucible that also sported Strip Mine, Wasteland, Mox Diamond, Harrow and a fetchland, and I still didn't like it taking up a slot in my deck. I guess it's just personal preference - to each his own and all that.
What wouldn't you like about it in that situation? You can basically Strip your opponent every turn until they have no lands all for no mana or lost card advantage (you do "give up" your land drop, but you already had board advantage, right?). Crucible did take up a slot in your deck--a slot that makes you win.
I have found Crucible to be a very high pick especially early in the draft. It's a card which enables a very specific strategy which makes building a deck around it extremely fun. It's a lot like opening your first pick and seeing Recurring Nightmare, 'Geddon, or Ankh and knowing you're going to go 'all in' on that strategy.
I like it ... I guess I should give mine a name since I suppose it is a pet.:tongue:
My take ... if the card you want (and your picky about exact card) is in top 15 of deck (roughly half the time), it is arguably better than Vampiric Tutor since you set up the following 4 draws as well (which is enough EV to justify 1 higher cmc IMO)
What wouldn't you like about it in that situation? You can basically Strip your opponent every turn until they have no lands all for no mana or lost card advantage (you do "give up" your land drop, but you already had board advantage, right?). Crucible did take up a slot in your deck--a slot that makes you win.
Cheers,
rant
Well, the deck I mentioned went 0-2 (it was double elimination), and the Crucible was a dead draw once and played only a marginal role another time (just getting me back my land from my Mox Diamond). That was exactly what I was afraid of all along.
Obviously, I know it can be nuts (please give me that much credit), it's the swinginess of a combocard like that I don't like. You guys will probably lynch me for this, but I don't like Squee either, for the same reason.
But anyway, let's stop discussing this particular cut. Nothing you can say will make me like the card. Anyone see any change you did like?
Well, the deck I mentioned went 0-2 (it was double elimination), and the Crucible was a dead draw once and played only a marginal role another time (just getting me back my land from my Mox Diamond). That was exactly what I was afraid of all along.
Obviously, I know it can be nuts (please give me that much credit), it's the swinginess of a combocard like that I don't like. You guys will probably lynch me for this, but I don't like Squee either, for the same reason.
But anyway, let's stop discussing this particular cut. Nothing you can say will make me like the card. Anyone see any change you did like?
Wow, I am exactly the opposite. I love drafting, building & playing with crazy combo cards like that. In fact I just put in Zuran Orb and my first thought was "now I have Zuran Orb + Crucible of Worlds + Fastbond infinite life combo available in my cube!". Unlikely sure, but it is possible...
I liked almost all the other ones. I'd have kept Crucible and Squee, but the rest of the changes were fine.
Wow, that has to be good news. Squee is still in by the way, maybe he'll convince me yet - I'll give any card a chance if the consensus says it's good.
Wow, that has to be good news. Squee is still in by the way, maybe he'll convince me yet - I'll give any card a chance if the consensus says it's good.
I also don't like the cutting of Psychatog or Pouncing Jaguar. Those two should stay for sure, IMO.
In that post, it says OUT: Squee... is this wrong then?
Squee went from the Red section to the Colourless section. You will only cast Squee in a desperate situation and it can be played in any colour, hence the chance.
I also don't like the cutting of Psychatog or Pouncing Jaguar. Those two should stay for sure, IMO.
In that post, it says OUT: Squee... is this wrong then?
Ah, I see... it got moved to the colorless section as it can be used by any deck that has some discard synergy going.
Psychatog can be great, but it's mainly a late-game control card, so it's kinda narrow. He very well might make it back in later though. The Jaguar didn't really fit in with the other green 1-drops, they are all about ramping. The echo just felt awkward.
I'd still count Squee as a red card. It isn't just discarded for abuse. Playing it with Braids, Smokestack and Skullclamp are some of his more common uses... and you need to be playing red to get that out of him.
Because we cut a green card too much, we have a vacant spot in our Green section. We weret thinking about either addind Omnath or giving one of the cards that got cut a second chance.
A lot of people are very enthousiast about Life of the Loam. But we don't see how this card is that good. Can any Loam lover explain what we are missing? What are you looking for when playing Loam?
Because we cut a green card too much, we have a vacant spot in our Green section. We weret thinking about either addind Omnath or giving one of the cards that got cut a second chance.
A lot of people are very enthousiast about Life of the Loam. But we don't see how this card is that good. Can any Loam lover explain what we are missing? What are you looking for when playing Loam?
Just off the top of my head:
1. fetches
2. Strip Mine and Wasteland
3. synergy with Cube bombs Wildfire and Armageddon
4. synergy with sac effects like Braids and Smokestack, as mentioned above.
5. synergy with discard effects.
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The reason is that is makes sense, and it does make a difference because the color sections have not grown, which means that the cube is now smaller. Mox Diamond is of course not gold, it is a fixer - and you can find it in the section 'Fixers'.
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It is basically just a labeling thing since obviously you'll be running all 5 Moxes but the land section actually seems like the most appropriate place for them, they are basically lands during draft and deck construction after all.
That's true. I guess it's a matter of aesthetics then.
About the Crucible, we don't run Constant Mists and our cube is a lot larger than yours, so it's much harder to get enough cards to make it worthwhile.
Eidolon:
Sorry, we just don't like the slow Ancestral Visions, and Time Warp was just too expensive to be very effective. Trygon Predator was never wow for us, but we'll see how Temporal Spring fares. We don't run pingers, so that's not much of a problem for Infiltrator. But again, we'll see how it does - it's easy to compare what would have happened if it had been a Slayer.
Land section? What is that, pray tell?
Your cube isn't that much bigger than mine.
I said I like to use Braids, Smokestack and Mists with my Crucible, and you made the assumption that those are it's only applications. Wasteland, Strip Mine, Dust Bowl, Barbarian Ring, All 10 Fetchlands, All of the Manlands, Armageddon, Balance, Catastrophe, Zuran Orb, Greater Gargadon, Mox Diamond, and simply being used to circumvent some of the discard drawbacks of blue draw spells, masticore pitching, or to aid in the recovery from LD and discard. I rarely ever construct a cube deck that wouldn't benefit from a Crucible in some way.
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Sorry, I thought you had a 360 cube.
Anyway, it may be super for you, but I just don't like the card. I ran a deck with Crucible that also sported Strip Mine, Wasteland, Mox Diamond, Harrow and a fetchland, and I still didn't like it taking up a slot in my deck. I guess it's just personal preference - to each his own and all that.
I used to write cube articles on StarCityGames, now for GatheringMagic and podcast about cube (w/Antknee42.)
What wouldn't you like about it in that situation? You can basically Strip your opponent every turn until they have no lands all for no mana or lost card advantage (you do "give up" your land drop, but you already had board advantage, right?). Crucible did take up a slot in your deck--a slot that makes you win.
Cheers,
rant
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I could maybe see Lim-Dul's Vault in a 720+ card cube... maybe... but certainly nothing smaller than that, IMO.
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I like it ... I guess I should give mine a name since I suppose it is a pet.:tongue:
My take ... if the card you want (and your picky about exact card) is in top 15 of deck (roughly half the time), it is arguably better than Vampiric Tutor since you set up the following 4 draws as well (which is enough EV to justify 1 higher cmc IMO)
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=385729
Well, the deck I mentioned went 0-2 (it was double elimination), and the Crucible was a dead draw once and played only a marginal role another time (just getting me back my land from my Mox Diamond). That was exactly what I was afraid of all along.
Obviously, I know it can be nuts (please give me that much credit), it's the swinginess of a combocard like that I don't like. You guys will probably lynch me for this, but I don't like Squee either, for the same reason.
But anyway, let's stop discussing this particular cut. Nothing you can say will make me like the card. Anyone see any change you did like?
Wow, I am exactly the opposite. I love drafting, building & playing with crazy combo cards like that. In fact I just put in Zuran Orb and my first thought was "now I have Zuran Orb + Crucible of Worlds + Fastbond infinite life combo available in my cube!". Unlikely sure, but it is possible...
I liked almost all the other ones. I'd have kept Crucible and Squee, but the rest of the changes were fine.
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Wow, that has to be good news. Squee is still in by the way, maybe he'll convince me yet - I'll give any card a chance if the consensus says it's good.
I also don't like the cutting of Psychatog or Pouncing Jaguar. Those two should stay for sure, IMO.
In that post, it says OUT: Squee... is this wrong then?
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My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
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I feel compelled to repeat everything I hear
Ah, I see... it got moved to the colorless section as it can be used by any deck that has some discard synergy going.
Psychatog can be great, but it's mainly a late-game control card, so it's kinda narrow. He very well might make it back in later though. The Jaguar didn't really fit in with the other green 1-drops, they are all about ramping. The echo just felt awkward.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
A lot of people are very enthousiast about Life of the Loam. But we don't see how this card is that good. Can any Loam lover explain what we are missing? What are you looking for when playing Loam?
I feel compelled to repeat everything I hear
Just off the top of my head:
1. fetches
2. Strip Mine and Wasteland
3. synergy with Cube bombs Wildfire and Armageddon
4. synergy with sac effects like Braids and Smokestack, as mentioned above.
5. synergy with discard effects.
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