Great news! I wasn't sure how it was going to play out in those situations where there wasn't a complete bomb attached to him. I'm hoping he'll prove himself worthy over time, because it's a really fun/cool card.
I made a couple of small changes to spice things up in red. Players were looking for cards that would be more fun/interesting even at the sake of losing some consistency. So the Searing Spear/Lightning Strike combo has been replaced with Searing Blaze and Shrine of Burning Rage. Burn replaced by burn, but exchanging consistency for a higher ceiling and more fun/interesting options. We'll see how this goes, and test these cards out for a while.
We just thought it would make things more interesting. Even at the loss of some consistency, it will probably be worth it. I've cubed Shrine a lot in the past, and it's certainly a strong card. Glad to have it back.
I'm not sure if I've brought this up before Mark, but I really enjoy your group's newfound love for interesting over powerful (as in maybe the last few years). It makes it a lot more exciting for me to follow your updates and card testing. Anyways, thanks for the great work you do in the community and I look forward to keep seeing new and innovative ideas pop up here
I'm not sure if I've brought this up before Mark, but I really enjoy your group's newfound love for interesting over powerful (as in maybe the last few years). It makes it a lot more exciting for me to follow your updates and card testing. Anyways, thanks for the great work you do in the community and I look forward to keep seeing new and innovative ideas pop up here
Hey thanks man! Ya, we're trying a little bit of everything nowadays, experimenting with cards that have previously been removed and moving in new directions. I like how it's working out so far.
Updated my list with a small change. 4-5 color control decks were owning up the drafts. I made some changes to help with mana fixing and added back in some guild cards I missed terribly. See the CubeTutor link for changes, or check the change log (post #4).
I can understand trimming the Lantern and Vivids to fight 5cc, but I don't really understand losing Ancient Tomb. Isn't it basically the closest thing you can get to Sol Ring on a land? Seems like it would probably help aggro over Control too, since it self-inflicts damage.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Moderator Helpdesk
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
The pain on the Tomb was significant, and finding room for colorless lands will be too hard with the loss of the Vivids. It was hard enough before. And aggro would rather run any of the other colorless nonbasics instead. Strip, Waste, Port, both manlands, off-color Moxen ...they're all better. And there's just no room for more than 1 colorless land in a deck. Tomb was great in midrange decks that had ways to recover lost life, but that was about the only decks that were willing to play it. It's definitely not a Sol Ring of any kind. I'll watch my mana and see if it's possible to bring colorless lands back in, but if I had to choose one of the two, it would be easily Dust Bowl first. Tomb's been in and out of my cube a lot.
Hello everybody, I'm Angelo from Italy and I've been a passionate cuber since April 2013, so for a relatively short time. Thank God Internet already existed at those times and after few months I found this forum.
I really liked wtwlf's list but what impressed me was the huge amount of accurate, experienced and - luckyly – arguable evaluations on this thread (and the old super-long one) by a lot of people, in particular the considerations related to 1) the balancing among aggro/midrange/control strategies (I strongly agree with the rock/paper/scissors argument :-), and 2) how to support so many fun/interesting archetypes.
Welcome! Glad you decided to make your first post here. Happy cubing!
Quote from CuberAng »
Basalt Monolith: wtwlf, how has it been for you since the addition?
Surprisingly powerful! It helps with the big mana decks, including ramp, the artifact.dec and the like. It can enable some really powerful plays the turn after it comes down, to be sure.
Quote from CuberAng »
in what kind of decks do you put folks like Xenagos & Sarkhan Vol?
I like them in ramp decks and in token decks, typically. And they're both great in generic midrange decks, even if some of the midrange exclusive support has been trimmed back. Xenagos enables some powerful ramping in addition to churning out hasted threats every turn. And Sarkhan provides a whole suite of unique effects for the cube. It's one of the only playable threaten effects, fires effects and anthem effects in the cube. So it goes into decks that want those kinds of effects.
Quote from CuberAng »
how can be efficient in that kind of deck that needs a quick/stable/resilient finisher (stable in terms of damage)?
'Tog might not be a typical control finisher in the same way that Ætherling is. Control decks that run several other medium-costed creatures are really where he fits best. Getting in for some damage over the course of the game with a Clique/Archmage/Sower/Manlands and the like will being your opponent into a position where a single swing from 'Tog will end the game. Especially if you can combine him with draw effects (draw-7s if you're lucky!) and removal. Even if your opponent leaves a blocker open for him, one bounce spell or kill spell can end the game in short order. And the best part is that he only costs 3 mana. So he's really easy to cast and protect. Not to mention that your opponent may be paying too much attention to 'Tog reaching lethal range that they forget he can still attack and block for less. You can trade used cards and spare cards for your opponent's creatures if they chump him, or attack into him. Also, combining him with Upheaval is always fun. Plus he's a graveyard enabler.
Quote from CuberAng »
Recent burn changes & monored option
Yes, we've been playing heavy red aggro decks since the cube's inception. The new spells just help to incentivize it more.
Quote from CuberAng »
Academy Rector & Form of the dragon
Rector is a cool card that has a lot of fun uses. Mainly in decks that are centered around an enchantment. But also as a utility card.
Form of the Dragon has always been a pet card of mine, and I figured there was no better time to see if it could have value in the cube than when Rector came back at the same time, and super-ramp/big red is running rampant.
Quote from CuberAng »
5 color recent actions
5 color should be possible, but not easy or automatic. The Vivid lands were making it too easy to pull off. Plus, I really missed a lot of those gold cards, and I'm glad to have them back. Good to see you guys were going crazy w/ 5-color decks too.
Hey Wtwlf, thanks again for everything you bring to the community. I apologize if you've already gone over this, I've got a quick question about the logistics of some of the Conspiracy adds - what do you do when you encounter them in Sealed or Winston? Just remove, draw a random card from the unused pool and keep going? Or do you keep them separate from the Cube and only include them if you're drafting? Thanks!!
Hey Wtwlf, thanks again for everything you bring to the community. I apologize if you've already gone over this, I've got a quick question about the logistics of some of the Conspiracy adds - what do you do when you encounter them in Sealed or Winston? Just remove, draw a random card from the unused pool and keep going? Or do you keep them separate from the Cube and only include them if you're drafting? Thanks!!
No problem. Ya, we just reveal it, replace it, and move on.
Another series of quick changes. Black and red lose their Morph creatures. Without every color having access to them, the bluff factor is gone and they lose some of their value. Exalted Angel is now the last man standing. I really hope they revisit the mechanic in the future, because I really like it. But I feel like there needs to be at least 1 in each color for the surprise factor to come into play. More fatties come into the cube in order to satisfy all the new archetypes that want them. Griselbrand comes into black for reanimation decks, and Bogardan Hellkite goes in for big red decks. I like it when every color has access to at least one superfatty they can play around with, and black and red were missing theirs until today. Additionally, I'm testing out Through the Breach in red, to see how it plays in big red, fatty cheating decks, super ramp and reanimator. I think it'll be a serviceable spell for all those archetypes. And I hope to splice it onto a Kodama's Reach at least once.
Exalted Angel was our last morph for the longest time. It was not a secret and was unfortunately pretty boring. When I cut her, she was not missed by anyone in the playgroup so I knew it was a good cut.
Glad to hear Griselbrand is getting some play along with Through the Breach!
She's the last one that's still hanging in there. Her not being a secret isn't nearly as big a deal as it is for the other morphs. She'll be in for a while. Despite not being a secret, she's still outclassing most other white creatures.
And ya, I'd like to get Grislebrand in through the breach.
**: Generator Servant is going in for extended testing. If it doesn't work out, I'll add in Borderland Marauder, which I know will be a solid (albeit unexciting) performer.
I miss the Morphs, and want to have at least one in each color. Inkwell Leviathan isn't as needed now that we have an extra bomb colorless target (Æther Searcher) and brought in extra reanimation targets too, and Shepeshifter has gained a lot of value over the past few updates. Will is a powerful card, but people have been excluding it from most decks that can't break it with Lotus/Ritual/Etc, and Bane is a solid performer for control decks still. Fanatic is still a fine card, but I think with Bombardment going in I'll still have ways to ping, and the new card has more synergy with tokens. Blaze has burned me too many times wither either the landfall or the RR being a problem; Firecat represents big damage at the end of the curve. Vigilante can pop enchantments too, and now that the Shaman is gone, the other dude feels out of place--Sage is a hell of a creature.
That's a slew of interesting changes. I support the return of those gold cards for sure. I'm less happy with morph than you and will probably cut back to just the Angel and Bane. I'm interested in your cut of Hellkite Overlord. I was just thinking of cutting 1 card of each color for two more manafacts (Thran Dynamo and something else), Ulamog, Sphinx of the Steel Wind, and Hellkite Overlord. This would help enable ramp, reanimator, Sneak Attack, etc. (Not to mention, I'm trying to trade a buddy for Show and Tell). Your cut of Overlord makes me wonder if this is a good move. I'll also be adding Kiora and cutting Simic Sky Swallower, so I'll need a Natural Order target (Terastodon will be coming in but I think I'd like another target). What are your thoughts?
I think that playing with some big monsters and enablers is fun. You'll enjoy Dynamo and 1 more big mana rock in your Wildfire/Upheaval and fat monster decks, so I like that change. Hellkite Overlord was just fine, and I cut it because I was replacing the Natural Order target in green at the same time. Otherwise, I would've kept him in.
Glad you got griselbrand back in.
He's just so far and away the most powerful creature to reanimate or show and tell in magic.
When you cut him you weren't running show and tell/eureka, so cutting him due to narrowness makes sense... but now with all those + through the breach, I think it would be madness to not cube him.
Really been enjoying cube play. It's been a huge hit with my friends, so much so that I have more than 10 interested in playing! This is a long shot question, but I wonder if you had a list of 'extras' or other recommendations for a cube list to look at for adding around 180 cards (4 more players). Thanks for all the work on the cube again!
Man, I wish I did. What I'd do, is take a look through my set updates and change log (it's one of the first 4 posts of this thread) and take a look at some cards that have been removed that are no longer in the cube. That might give you a "bench" or "short list" of stuff that would likely make good additions. Good luck!
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
(CubeTutor & MTGS)
360 Peasant Cube!
Custom Cube
RWU Miracles RWU
Hey thanks man! Ya, we're trying a little bit of everything nowadays, experimenting with cards that have previously been removed and moving in new directions. I like how it's working out so far.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
Many of the cards coming out looked pretty out of place in a 450 powered list.
A Comprehensive list of Cube Archetypes
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
Welcome! Glad you decided to make your first post here. Happy cubing!
Surprisingly powerful! It helps with the big mana decks, including ramp, the artifact.dec and the like. It can enable some really powerful plays the turn after it comes down, to be sure.
I like them in ramp decks and in token decks, typically. And they're both great in generic midrange decks, even if some of the midrange exclusive support has been trimmed back. Xenagos enables some powerful ramping in addition to churning out hasted threats every turn. And Sarkhan provides a whole suite of unique effects for the cube. It's one of the only playable threaten effects, fires effects and anthem effects in the cube. So it goes into decks that want those kinds of effects.
'Tog might not be a typical control finisher in the same way that Ætherling is. Control decks that run several other medium-costed creatures are really where he fits best. Getting in for some damage over the course of the game with a Clique/Archmage/Sower/Manlands and the like will being your opponent into a position where a single swing from 'Tog will end the game. Especially if you can combine him with draw effects (draw-7s if you're lucky!) and removal. Even if your opponent leaves a blocker open for him, one bounce spell or kill spell can end the game in short order. And the best part is that he only costs 3 mana. So he's really easy to cast and protect. Not to mention that your opponent may be paying too much attention to 'Tog reaching lethal range that they forget he can still attack and block for less. You can trade used cards and spare cards for your opponent's creatures if they chump him, or attack into him. Also, combining him with Upheaval is always fun. Plus he's a graveyard enabler.
Yes, we've been playing heavy red aggro decks since the cube's inception. The new spells just help to incentivize it more.
Rector is a cool card that has a lot of fun uses. Mainly in decks that are centered around an enchantment. But also as a utility card.
Form of the Dragon has always been a pet card of mine, and I figured there was no better time to see if it could have value in the cube than when Rector came back at the same time, and super-ramp/big red is running rampant.
5 color should be possible, but not easy or automatic. The Vivid lands were making it too easy to pull off. Plus, I really missed a lot of those gold cards, and I'm glad to have them back. Good to see you guys were going crazy w/ 5-color decks too.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
No problem. Ya, we just reveal it, replace it, and move on.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
Glad to hear Griselbrand is getting some play along with Through the Breach!
CUBE TOP 10 - Help us vote for the best cards in cube
And ya, I'd like to get Grislebrand in through the breach.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
None
UUU
None
BBB
None
RRR
Generator Servant** (Gore-House Chainwalker)
Goblin Rabblemaster (Prophetic Flamespeaker)
GGG
Nissa, Worldwaker (Dictate of Karametra)
Reclamation Sage (Viridian Shaman)
XXX
None
WUBRG
None
**: Generator Servant is going in for extended testing. If it doesn't work out, I'll add in Borderland Marauder, which I know will be a solid (albeit unexciting) performer.
Non-M15 Changes
Vesuvan Shapeshifter (Inkwell Leviathan)
Bane of the Living (Yawgmoth's Will)
Blistering Firecat (Mogg Fanatic)
Goblin Bombardment (Searing Blaze)
Nantuko Vigilante (Uktabi Orangutan)
..........
I miss the Morphs, and want to have at least one in each color. Inkwell Leviathan isn't as needed now that we have an extra bomb colorless target (Æther Searcher) and brought in extra reanimation targets too, and Shepeshifter has gained a lot of value over the past few updates. Will is a powerful card, but people have been excluding it from most decks that can't break it with Lotus/Ritual/Etc, and Bane is a solid performer for control decks still. Fanatic is still a fine card, but I think with Bombardment going in I'll still have ways to ping, and the new card has more synergy with tokens. Blaze has burned me too many times wither either the landfall or the RR being a problem; Firecat represents big damage at the end of the curve. Vigilante can pop enchantments too, and now that the Shaman is gone, the other dude feels out of place--Sage is a hell of a creature.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
Cheers,
rant
My Cube
CubeCobra: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/5f5d0310ed602310515d4c32
Cube Tutor: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1963
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
He's just so far and away the most powerful creature to reanimate or show and tell in magic.
When you cut him you weren't running show and tell/eureka, so cutting him due to narrowness makes sense... but now with all those + through the breach, I think it would be madness to not cube him.
Last Updated 02/07/24
Streaming Standard/Cube on Twitch https://www.twitch.tv/heisenb3rg96
Strategy Twitter https://www.twitter.com/heisenb3rg
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!