Hey watchwolf! Long long time lurker, but I wanted to know what your thoughts on battlebond are? I run an exact clone of your cube and was thinking a couple cards may have a place. Let me know what changes you plan to make with the set!
Hey! I'm doing extensive testing, but if things keep going as they are now, there won't be any Battlebond cards going into the cube. Nothing is playing well enough in testing up to this point.
(And it's white wolf, BTW; named after the publishing company of the same name)
Hi, as far as I remember, you were one of the advocates for Oath of Nissa back when it came out, yet you cut it in your green aggro update. I'm curious as to your thoughts behind this decision. Did it just turn out to be weaker than you initially thought, or does it not go into enough decks? I've been playing it for a while, but my playgroup's been lukewarm on the card.
They left out the part where Yawgmoth is resurrected,but has been cleansed as Yawgmoth the Redeemed,and now must awaken Chromium so that Karn can fuse with him and create what can only be known as : the ultimate taco.
It's still a great card for generic green midrange decks, but my playgroup churns out a surprising number of lower creature-count green decks; the only place the card doesn't perform well. I'm looking for a way to bring it back in all the time, but it's currently on the bench.
All of my lists (except for the CubeTutor page) are updated with Battlebond, which is essentially just +Will Kenrith (which I cut The Antiquities War to add in). The Shelldock change was just a temporary placeholder until Battlebond became available, and even on CT, the Shelldock is a Will.
Hi wtwlf,
I believe blue is generally considered the strongest color in cube. Would you think this is the case in yours?
I usually avoid drafting mainly blue for the sake of fun, especially with new players in the group. But if I were to try hard and wish to get 3-0s with your list, do you think blue is the way to go? Assuming I didn’t just get P1P1 Sapphire/Jace/Volcanic Island...etc.
Hi wtwlf,
I believe blue is generally considered the strongest color in cube. Would you think this is the case in yours?
I usually avoid drafting mainly blue for the sake of fun, especially with new players in the group. But if I were to try hard and wish to get 3-0s with your list, do you think blue is the way to go? Assuming I didn’t just get P1P1 Sapphire/Jace/Volcanic Island...etc.
Blue has strong cards, but forcing it isn't the way to win drafts. Drafting what's open and reading the packs is a much better way to try and 3-0.
Hi wtwlf123,
Your cube posts and feedback are awesome and greatly appreciated. New member here but longtime lurker. I was following your increase again to 450 with Dominaria and your analysis of why (wanting a better event structure for 5 players). I am reworking my 360 cube and deciding whether to raise to 405 or even 450. I would like to keep at 360 or maybe 405 at most. We play mostly 3-4 players and infrequently 5 or 6. We are doing sealed when 4 or less but we are going to try glimpse/sight drafting to see more of the card pool in a draft structure.
Your recommendation for a 405 cube is already in the topic.
What event structure for drafting would you recommend for 2-4 players if I keep to a 360 card cube?
Q&A time my friend...I have been cubicly dormant as of late, but now I come back to see that you have come around to that 450 life!
I spent 2-3 months last winter working my cube to 450, so a comparison of differences has elicited some questions/comments:
WHITE:
We’re similar, but you tend to indulge in 4’s and 5’s more than I do. 1 Card whose absence is notable to me... Eldrazi Displacer! This has been very powerful and popular in my circle and is totally doable, especially with some allied Talismans instead of Signets. No love here?
BLACK:
No Nether Void? Does the “Black Armageddon” no longer deserve a spot in Black’s top 20?
Sinkhole missing? I thought you were a strong advocate of this as a draw to move into Black aggro. Space is tight, and it’s narrow, so I get that...
RED:
The absence of Fireblast, Char, and Smash to Smithereens is kinda shocking! Nerfing Red aggro or just ultra tight on space? Red seems like it’s getting squeezed...
GOLD:
Bring back Sphinx of the Steel Wind!
BALANCE & GENERAL CONSIDERATIONS:
I’ve been super happy with having 60 pieces of mana fixing (duals, rocks, rainbows, etc) and I see you have done similarly (61). I actually read an old post of eidolon’s which had a formula and this inspired me to go 60 (# of drafters possible/2 for each guild’s fixing + [cube size * 2.22])
Our only major difference is your adherence to the full set of creature lands. As awesome as they are, I just really want my aggro colors curving out, and I feel at 450 you need 4 untapped fixers in a guild to enable this in an 8-man draft. Currently I’ve got Blackcleave Cliffs, Caves of Koilos, and Battlefield Forge going. The latter two also help enable Displacer decks.
(I have a small green aggro subtheme I’m toying with that includes Nacatl, Warden, Rancor, Tattermunge, and Militant, mostly to enable Naya, Jund, and Abzan aggro. To support this I’m running Horizon Canopy over Wildwood and Blooming Marsh over Hissing Quagmire, although I could see being convinced to going back to the ‘Quag at some point!)
I’ve felt that 13 2-mana rocks at this size is too much! I feel like 10 to 11 is the sweet spot, and thus I cut the Everflowing Chalice and Coldsteel Heart (which is your 61st fixer). Mind Stone has been in and out as the 11th but I think I’m too fond of it to permanently part with it...
How has your experience been with the density of rocks? I know they’re super good in the artifact deck and with things like the new Karn, but an overabundance can make drafters not value them highly and just try to wheel ‘em. Thoughts?
One concern for me at this size has been cards that deal with Planeswalkers. The saturation seems to keep creeping up (Karn, Teferi, Will, etc) and I’m starting to look at cards like Commit // Memory, Never // Return, Song of the Dryads, and Dreadbore with a more favorable eye, even though at first blush they don’t quite seem like 450 material. Has this been your experience at all here?
Thanks for coming here and giving this kind of feedback. I also made my own changes after wtwlf explored 405 then moved to 450. The reason being that my groups tend to be bigger than his. Looking forward to following this discussion.
I'm going to sound curt here, but it's just because I'm replying to a lot of questions comments...
No Displacer. Great card, but the lack of C fixing at this size makes it quite a bit harder to use.
Void/Sinkhole are great, but they're not necessary for black aggro to thrive in an environment where the concentration of powerful disruption spells is so much higher.
Red aggro was not nerfed. All those cards were cut because they were on the 'block at 540.
I would play Sphinx if I had more room.
Creature lands are amazing, even in aggro the ability to increase your threat density for free easily outweighs the ETBT drawback. Like, easily, easily.
Mana Rock density has been fine. No issues at all.
I would love shoehorning extra 'walker hate in, and I'm always keeping an eye out for ways to do so.
OP is updated with the M19 additions and another surprising big change... the cube is back up to 540 cards! The detailed additions are in the change log, and the list should be current.
Not too far off, actually. I missed some of the more fringe options, all of my pet cards, and having enough variance between drafts to mix it up. I'll be happy at 540 again, lol.
I've always enjoyed your Cube at the 540 size. My favorite cards you added back are creatures with Landfall. In fact I expected to see Loam Lion over Mirari's Wake once I saw the first few efficient creatures.
Because I think the haste really changes the mana demand on the card. Morphling and Aetherling are largely static initial investments, but Thornling is a wildcard.
(And it's white wolf, BTW; named after the publishing company of the same name)
My 630 Card Powered Cube
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My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
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I agree about Battlebond. Nothing impressed me enough to add to my cube. I like Spellseeker but not enough to cut another blue card for it.
Cheers,
rant
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I will be adding in Will Kenrith. And that's probably it.
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My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
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My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
Will is very much the real deal.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
Jace beleren or will?
http://www.cubetutor.com/cubeblog/63569
I believe blue is generally considered the strongest color in cube. Would you think this is the case in yours?
I usually avoid drafting mainly blue for the sake of fun, especially with new players in the group. But if I were to try hard and wish to get 3-0s with your list, do you think blue is the way to go? Assuming I didn’t just get P1P1 Sapphire/Jace/Volcanic Island...etc.
They're wildly different cards, but I like Jace Beleren more at this point in time. Need to see Will perform longer before I can make that call.
Blue has strong cards, but forcing it isn't the way to win drafts. Drafting what's open and reading the packs is a much better way to try and 3-0.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
Your cube posts and feedback are awesome and greatly appreciated. New member here but longtime lurker. I was following your increase again to 450 with Dominaria and your analysis of why (wanting a better event structure for 5 players). I am reworking my 360 cube and deciding whether to raise to 405 or even 450. I would like to keep at 360 or maybe 405 at most. We play mostly 3-4 players and infrequently 5 or 6. We are doing sealed when 4 or less but we are going to try glimpse/sight drafting to see more of the card pool in a draft structure.
Your recommendation for a 405 cube is already in the topic.
What event structure for drafting would you recommend for 2-4 players if I keep to a 360 card cube?
I would Glimpse Draft the 2-player events and Sight Draft the 3 and 4 player events.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
I spent 2-3 months last winter working my cube to 450, so a comparison of differences has elicited some questions/comments:
WHITE:
We’re similar, but you tend to indulge in 4’s and 5’s more than I do. 1 Card whose absence is notable to me... Eldrazi Displacer! This has been very powerful and popular in my circle and is totally doable, especially with some allied Talismans instead of Signets. No love here?
BLACK:
No Nether Void? Does the “Black Armageddon” no longer deserve a spot in Black’s top 20?
Sinkhole missing? I thought you were a strong advocate of this as a draw to move into Black aggro. Space is tight, and it’s narrow, so I get that...
RED:
The absence of Fireblast, Char, and Smash to Smithereens is kinda shocking! Nerfing Red aggro or just ultra tight on space? Red seems like it’s getting squeezed...
GOLD:
Bring back Sphinx of the Steel Wind!
BALANCE & GENERAL CONSIDERATIONS:
I’ve been super happy with having 60 pieces of mana fixing (duals, rocks, rainbows, etc) and I see you have done similarly (61). I actually read an old post of eidolon’s which had a formula and this inspired me to go 60 (# of drafters possible/2 for each guild’s fixing + [cube size * 2.22])
Our only major difference is your adherence to the full set of creature lands. As awesome as they are, I just really want my aggro colors curving out, and I feel at 450 you need 4 untapped fixers in a guild to enable this in an 8-man draft. Currently I’ve got Blackcleave Cliffs, Caves of Koilos, and Battlefield Forge going. The latter two also help enable Displacer decks.
(I have a small green aggro subtheme I’m toying with that includes Nacatl, Warden, Rancor, Tattermunge, and Militant, mostly to enable Naya, Jund, and Abzan aggro. To support this I’m running Horizon Canopy over Wildwood and Blooming Marsh over Hissing Quagmire, although I could see being convinced to going back to the ‘Quag at some point!)
I’ve felt that 13 2-mana rocks at this size is too much! I feel like 10 to 11 is the sweet spot, and thus I cut the Everflowing Chalice and Coldsteel Heart (which is your 61st fixer). Mind Stone has been in and out as the 11th but I think I’m too fond of it to permanently part with it...
How has your experience been with the density of rocks? I know they’re super good in the artifact deck and with things like the new Karn, but an overabundance can make drafters not value them highly and just try to wheel ‘em. Thoughts?
One concern for me at this size has been cards that deal with Planeswalkers. The saturation seems to keep creeping up (Karn, Teferi, Will, etc) and I’m starting to look at cards like Commit // Memory, Never // Return, Song of the Dryads, and Dreadbore with a more favorable eye, even though at first blush they don’t quite seem like 450 material. Has this been your experience at all here?
Cheers mate...
I'm going to sound curt here, but it's just because I'm replying to a lot of questions comments...
No Displacer. Great card, but the lack of C fixing at this size makes it quite a bit harder to use.
Void/Sinkhole are great, but they're not necessary for black aggro to thrive in an environment where the concentration of powerful disruption spells is so much higher.
Red aggro was not nerfed. All those cards were cut because they were on the 'block at 540.
I would play Sphinx if I had more room.
Creature lands are amazing, even in aggro the ability to increase your threat density for free easily outweighs the ETBT drawback. Like, easily, easily.
Mana Rock density has been fine. No issues at all.
I would love shoehorning extra 'walker hate in, and I'm always keeping an eye out for ways to do so.
Cheers.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/the-cube-forum/articles-podcasts-and-guides/795711-set-p-review-my-top-20-m19-cards-for-the-cube
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
CubeTutor should be updated later on today.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
I tease but I'm happy. More fun cards going around.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
Why is Thornling an XCC but Morphling 5CC?
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
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