I'm not wtwlf123 and I don't deign to answer in his stead, but I think he'd agree that most of the new cards are there because they were better than the previous options. Of the ones you've listed, I'd warrant a guess that only Elspeth, Treasure Cruise, Pain Seer, Swiftspear, and maybe Soulfire Grand Master and Warden of the First Tree are even anywhere near the chopping block. The others are solid Cube auto-includes at the moment and very strong.
From white, all those cards are really solid. But there's so many good 3-drops that I could maybe see Spiritkeeper getting bumped at some point just due to the 1WW cost. But man, all the white 3-drops are great, including that one.
In blue, Treasure Cruise might get cut at some point, but it's been doing relatively well and will likely stay around for at least a little while.
In black, I could see myself cutting Pain Seer if we got some more great 2-drops.
In red, only Swiftspear is close to the block, but we'd need a lot of good 2-power 1-drops to get printed before it would be axed.
For green, I could see Nissa maybe getting cut if I removed the super-ramp package, but she's a solid enough contributor to that deck that she'll be around as long as it is.
All the new Tribrid cards and Ugin are pretty safe.
How has Monastery Swiftspear been doing for you? I was considering adding it to my cube.
Sorry man, I must've missed this post!
Swiftspear is decent enough to keep around for a while. Red still needs more 2-power 1-drops (even after Zurgo Bellstriker) so it's safe until we get a few more.
Looks like white gets another one mana 2/1 for the cube! Are you thinking of replacing any or simply including Dragon Hunter? I'm anxious to see what your Dragons additions are going to be. Sarkhan Unbroken over Yasova Dragonclaw?
What happened to Lightning Greaves? I think big green is missing that card pretty badly.
I don't know on the Hunter. I have to run the numbers again. I think white's probably set with numbers, so it'll likely replace.
I like Yasova more than Sarkhan so far. After testing, he might not make the cut. Being 3 colors is a lot, especially when the competition at the CMC is so high and the color demand is inflexible. Yasova goes into a lot more decks, and it's cheaper.
Greaves is a cool effect sometimes, but often I needed more gas rather than something to make my existing gas more effective.
I also purged a bunch of superfluous data from my OPs, (including deleting 2 of the non-MTG cubes that haven't been updated in YEARS, and reducing the Change Log to the last 10 set updates/2 years of changes) so hopefully the OP will load a little faster now.
I don't know on the Hunter. I have to run the numbers again. I think white's probably set with numbers, so it'll likely replace.
Hi, I've been building a version of your most recent 360 cube, but now that you've updated to a 450 I've been trying to do new includes/replacements from my own testing (with a little help from the forum too). I'm just curious though what numbers are you referring to that you have to run?
It's the target number for 2-power 1-drops in the aggro colors. Every playgroup/cube size/aggro support/draft size change will warp the numbers. For my cube, the target number is 9 per aggro color.
Basically, I have a 450 card cube. When we have a 4-player draft, we use 40% of the cube. 40% of 9 is 3.6. So if I play a 2-color deck, I should hit 7 2-power 1-drops between 2 colors in the average 4-player draft (which is our most demanding draft). 7 is my target number for a deck, so 9 is the number of 1-drops in each aggro color.
So you have to plug in your own numbers and figure it out for yourself. How many 1-drops do YOU want in a deck? What percentage of the cube is drafted in YOUR most demanding draft type? How many colors do YOU support aggro in? How many colors are in YOUR aggro decks?
You'll have to calculate for yourself what you want your numbers to be.
If I decided to bump to 540, I would want 11 2-power 1-drops in each color. But that's for my group demand. Yours might be different.
It's the target number for 2-power 1-drops in the aggro colors. Every playgroup/cube size/aggro support/draft size change will warp the numbers. For my cube, the target number is 9 per aggro color.
Do you include cards like Mother of Runes, Grim Lavamancer, and the 1 mana elf mana dorks towards the total of 9? Curious because I know they get picked up by other decks.
Basically, I have a 450 card cube. When we have a 4-player draft, we use 40% of the cube. 40% of 9 is 3.6. So if I play a 2-color deck, I should hit 7 2-power 1-drops between 2 colors in the average 4-player draft (which is our most demanding draft). 7 is my target number for a deck, so 9 is the number of 1-drops in each aggro color.
How is a guild one-drop counted (Rakdos Cackler, etc). As half of a card because two colors want it, as a regular card for both cards, or not counted at all?
I was looking at trying Bosh, Iron Golem because he looked like he could fit a myriad of archetypes for the cube environment. what was your experience with this card?
Basically, I have a 450 card cube. When we have a 4-player draft, we use 40% of the cube. 40% of 9 is 3.6. So if I play a 2-color deck, I should hit 7 2-power 1-drops between 2 colors in the average 4-player draft (which is our most demanding draft). 7 is my target number for a deck, so 9 is the number of 1-drops in each aggro color.
How is a guild one-drop counted (Rakdos Cackler, etc). As half of a card because two colors want it, as a regular card for both cards, or not counted at all?
It's half a point in red and half a point in black.
I was looking at trying Bosh, Iron Golem because he looked like he could fit a myriad of archetypes for the cube environment. what was your experience with this card?
He was good enough for the artifact.dec IF if contained Welder and Daretti, but it wasn't good enough as a Tinker/Reanimation target.
I understand Willbender is better than Voidmage Prodigy, but is it really better than Vesuvan Shapeshifter? Other than that, love the changes, specially the reinclusion of the morph subtheme as it adds another layer to the cube. Last draft I went up against someone who was UW who proceeds to put a facedown creature on turn 3, which instantly signaled Exalted Angel as it was the only morph card in the cube.
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I've found Ancestral Vision to be an MVP of quite a few decks, refilling the hand midgame for a ridiculously cheap cost. Granted, it is no Ancestral Recall (obviously) and when you draw this late it is feel bad, but this is one of those cards where that risk is completely worth it. There is no way that Treasure Cruise beats this card even if it is a better late game draw.
You want to reload your hand when you have run out of cards, by that point in the game you can cast Treasure Cruise for an affordable price, no matter when you drew it. Ancestral Vision on the other hand only has a relatively small window where drawing it is good.
As for Willbender, from what I understand wtwlf123's playgroup has always liked that card, so it makes perfect sense for them to bring it back with a bigger and better morph theme.
I wonder if Champion of the Parish would not be a better card than Savannah Lions often enough to make the cut? There is a healthy number of humans, after all.
A few of your planned cuts surprised me quite a bit.
I've found Ancestral Vision to be an MVP of quite a few decks, refilling the hand midgame for a ridiculously cheap cost. Granted, it is no Ancestral Recall (obviously) and when you draw this late it is feel bad, but this is one of those cards where that risk is completely worth it. There is no way that Treasure Cruise beats this card even if it is a better late game draw.
Into the Roil is another staple to a lesser extent. I know you are attempting to support morph, but Willbender? I've never liked it and a higher morph saturation doesn't change that. Morph guys have to be at least on the fence themselves to justify inclusion even with a morph subtheme. I don't see it. There are plenty of morphs out there even if they are in other colors to help keep the mystery alive.
Hypnotic Specter is a cut that makes me sad. I get that his day is coming for most cubes, but to see it go from yours still makes me sad. Heck, I was even custom creating a card that could fill Specter's place but keep the essence of Hippie alive.
Brain Drainer1BB
Creature – Zombie (R)
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Sacrifice Brain Drainer: Target opponent discards a card at random.
“Not all zombies are mindless: they only start out that way.”
(2/2)
Eh? Eh?! If hippy has to die, can his replacement at least be of the same strain? Come on Wizards!
I'm glad you put Firecat back in, Eidolon has always been very "meh" for me. Firecat however has won games I had no business wining.
I wouldn't cut both of the green artifact destroying green 3 drops. Sometimes you need that effect cheap and on a body. Maybe keep the elf? At least it synergizes with Joraga (shrug).
Lastly, the Grenzo cut just seems wrong. Maybe move Cackler to open up a Rakdos slot? Just a thought.
Ancestral Vision wasn't good for me before. I re-included it to test it against Treasure Cruise. Cruise is significantly better, and Vision is still just as lackluster as it's always been. When either card is good, it draws 3 cards for U. When Cruise is bad, it's usually a Concentrate. When Vision is bad, it does absolutely nothing.
Into the Roil is fine, but it's generally just a good filler card. Willbender is the scariest face-down creature to anticipate, so with a morph sub-theme, making your opponent fear your face-down cards is critical. I wish I had 3 more just like it.
Once I made up my mind that Specter wasn't going to survive the Magic Origins update, I figured I might as well test an extra 3-drop in its place for the next few months and get their order sorted in my head. It's a painful cut, but it doesn't mean it's the wrong one. I like your intimidate Specter design though. I wish I had one of those.
Yes, Firecat is nasty. I probably should've kept it around even without a Morph theme.
Grenzo's good. But the other cards are more important, and Command is just better.
I understand Willbender is better than Voidmage Prodigy, but is it really better than Vesuvan Shapeshifter? Other than that, love the changes, specially the reinclusion of the morph subtheme as it adds another layer to the cube. Last draft I went up against someone who was UW who proceeds to put a facedown creature on turn 3, which instantly signaled Exalted Angel as it was the only morph card in the cube.
I really missed morph. I'm glad it's back for another spin. It adds a nice subtheme that creates some interesting gameplay decisions.
As I said above, Willbender is the scariest card to fear your opponent's morph is. It makes your opponent have a really hard time making removal decisions, and even activating abilities becomes really hard. It's a blowout against a ton of cards, and it's almost always a 3-for-1. The more morphs get included, the stronger Willbender becomes. Shapeshifter is solid, but I want my opponent to be afraid to cast spells when I have a face-down creature on the board.
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I Wonder if Champion of the Parish would not be a better card than Savannah Lions often enough to make the cut? There is a healthy number of humans, after all.
I hate Champion of the Parish. That card was hot garbage again (for the 3rd consecutive trial) and I couldn't wait to replace it with a 1-drop that always has 2 power.
From white, all those cards are really solid. But there's so many good 3-drops that I could maybe see Spiritkeeper getting bumped at some point just due to the 1WW cost. But man, all the white 3-drops are great, including that one.
In blue, Treasure Cruise might get cut at some point, but it's been doing relatively well and will likely stay around for at least a little while.
In black, I could see myself cutting Pain Seer if we got some more great 2-drops.
In red, only Swiftspear is close to the block, but we'd need a lot of good 2-power 1-drops to get printed before it would be axed.
For green, I could see Nissa maybe getting cut if I removed the super-ramp package, but she's a solid enough contributor to that deck that she'll be around as long as it is.
All the new Tribrid cards and Ugin are pretty safe.
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Sorry man, I must've missed this post!
Swiftspear is decent enough to keep around for a while. Red still needs more 2-power 1-drops (even after Zurgo Bellstriker) so it's safe until we get a few more.
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What happened to Lightning Greaves? I think big green is missing that card pretty badly.
I like Yasova more than Sarkhan so far. After testing, he might not make the cut. Being 3 colors is a lot, especially when the competition at the CMC is so high and the color demand is inflexible. Yasova goes into a lot more decks, and it's cheaper.
Greaves is a cool effect sometimes, but often I needed more gas rather than something to make my existing gas more effective.
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Here's the update:
White
+ Dragon Hunter
+ Hidden Dragonslayer
- Champion of the Parish
- Journey to Nowhere
Blue
+ Stratus Dancer
+ Willbender
- Ancestral Vision
- Into the Roil
Black
+ Silumgar Assassin
+ Bane of the Living
- Hypnotic Specter
- Consuming Vapors
Red
+ Zurgo Bellstriker
+ Ire Shaman
+ Blistering Firecat
- Eidolon of the Great Revel
- Keldon Vandals
- Bosh, Iron Golem
Green
+ Ainok Survivalist
+ Den Protector
- Uktabi Orangutan
- Viridian Shaman
Multicolor
+ Kolaghan's Command
+ Sarkhan Unbroken
- Grenzo, Dungeon Warden
- Brutal Hordechief
Colorless
None
..........
I also purged a bunch of superfluous data from my OPs, (including deleting 2 of the non-MTG cubes that haven't been updated in YEARS, and reducing the Change Log to the last 10 set updates/2 years of changes) so hopefully the OP will load a little faster now.
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Hi, I've been building a version of your most recent 360 cube, but now that you've updated to a 450 I've been trying to do new includes/replacements from my own testing (with a little help from the forum too). I'm just curious though what numbers are you referring to that you have to run?
Modern: UB Tezzeret.
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So you have to plug in your own numbers and figure it out for yourself. How many 1-drops do YOU want in a deck? What percentage of the cube is drafted in YOUR most demanding draft type? How many colors do YOU support aggro in? How many colors are in YOUR aggro decks?
You'll have to calculate for yourself what you want your numbers to be.
If I decided to bump to 540, I would want 11 2-power 1-drops in each color. But that's for my group demand. Yours might be different.
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Do you include cards like Mother of Runes, Grim Lavamancer, and the 1 mana elf mana dorks towards the total of 9? Curious because I know they get picked up by other decks.
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How is a guild one-drop counted (Rakdos Cackler, etc). As half of a card because two colors want it, as a regular card for both cards, or not counted at all?
But Figure, Student of Warfare, Steppe Lynx count, right?
It's half a point in red and half a point in black.
Yes, since their role is 2-power 1-drop.
He was good enough for the artifact.dec IF if contained Welder and Daretti, but it wasn't good enough as a Tinker/Reanimation target.
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As for Willbender, from what I understand wtwlf123's playgroup has always liked that card, so it makes perfect sense for them to bring it back with a bigger and better morph theme.
I wonder if Champion of the Parish would not be a better card than Savannah Lions often enough to make the cut? There is a healthy number of humans, after all.
"What am I looking at? Ashes, dead man."
Maybe it's hard to accept that good ole' Savannah Lions has had his day?
Ancestral Vision wasn't good for me before. I re-included it to test it against Treasure Cruise. Cruise is significantly better, and Vision is still just as lackluster as it's always been. When either card is good, it draws 3 cards for U. When Cruise is bad, it's usually a Concentrate. When Vision is bad, it does absolutely nothing.
Into the Roil is fine, but it's generally just a good filler card. Willbender is the scariest face-down creature to anticipate, so with a morph sub-theme, making your opponent fear your face-down cards is critical. I wish I had 3 more just like it.
Once I made up my mind that Specter wasn't going to survive the Magic Origins update, I figured I might as well test an extra 3-drop in its place for the next few months and get their order sorted in my head. It's a painful cut, but it doesn't mean it's the wrong one. I like your intimidate Specter design though. I wish I had one of those.
Yes, Firecat is nasty. I probably should've kept it around even without a Morph theme.
Grenzo's good. But the other cards are more important, and Command is just better.
I really missed morph. I'm glad it's back for another spin. It adds a nice subtheme that creates some interesting gameplay decisions.
As I said above, Willbender is the scariest card to fear your opponent's morph is. It makes your opponent have a really hard time making removal decisions, and even activating abilities becomes really hard. It's a blowout against a ton of cards, and it's almost always a 3-for-1. The more morphs get included, the stronger Willbender becomes. Shapeshifter is solid, but I want my opponent to be afraid to cast spells when I have a face-down creature on the board.
I hate Champion of the Parish. That card was hot garbage again (for the 3rd consecutive trial) and I couldn't wait to replace it with a 1-drop that always has 2 power.
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