is there a reason you don't run eternal dragon, treachery, or starstorm or do you just not own the cards? in a cube as big as yours it seems like there is no reason not to have them in.
When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
is there a reason you don't run eternal dragon, treachery, or starstorm or do you just not own the cards? in a cube as big as yours it seems like there is no reason not to have them in.
Only that they're the last cards i need to get. I've been looking for (cheap) foils forever...
When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
Yeah, you should be able to pick up a Treachery for fairly cheap, Bonda. You should be able to pick up Treachery and E Dragon for about five bucks each, maybe less. And Starstorm shouldn't run you more than a couple bucks.
Yeah, you should be able to pick up a Treachery for fairly cheap, Bonda. You should be able to pick up Treachery and E Dragon for about five bucks each, maybe less. And Starstorm shouldn't run you more than a couple bucks.
True true - I won't go bankrupt. But then I'll be looking for the foil version anyway, and obviously I'll find them the day after I aquire non-foils... It's always like that.
Today I'm having 3 friends over to cube a bit. We have planned a 4-man Rotesserie draft... So I imagine that today will be the day of really powerful decks. I don't have black lotus, so that gives us an average of 2 power pieces per person, not counting stuff as Sol Ring, LoA and similar.
I still don't know what to draft - what would you draft in a 4-man rotesserie?
The current decks I'm thinking about:
White Wheenie
Black/Red aggro with skullclamp
Recurring Nightmare // Survival of the Fittest .deck
Green, Red ramp with alot of xR burn spells
5 CC - there'll be so many duals available that you could make a deck without basic lands.
Everybody will be fighting over blue. Take 'Geddon and Sulfuric Vortex and build a sick RW aggro deck.
Yeah - figured that much.
As you can see non of my deckchoices include blue (except 5cc, but that hardly counts). Boros deck wins could be another very good option instead of WW.
Quick summary: In a 4 player environment I see 1 red burn deck, 1 Rec/Sur deck, and 2 blue artifact decks. I guess I see the blue artifact deck as being too dominant to be worth going away from.
There are some combos that are a bit inconsistent in a normal draft that you can take them and be awesome with them.
As I see it (and I have put an absurd number of hours into theorising about wtywlfs cube in the last couple of weeks, seeing as I am in 3 different rot drafts currently), fast artifact mana totally changes the environment, and library tutoring and graveyard recursion are 'combos' that look to be much more broken.
Library: All the mirage tutors, Tinker, Tezzeret, Gifts let you set up broken combos.
Graveyard: Goblin Welder, Crucible, Life from the Loam, Academy Ruins, black/green reanimation
(particularly Nightmare)
Looting effects look like they will bridge the gap nicely by drawing extra cards and putting more in the graveyard. Mongrel and Prowler are good archetype cards.
The lightning bolt deck is probably pretty good. Looks like the only viable aggro deck. Must have: Winter Orb and Tangle Wire.
Just don't draft white or aggro. Fast artifact mana will be prevalent and will completely trump 'phase 1' aggro decks, particularly ones without reach. Control finishers are a dime a dozen, as are wrath effects, and to a lesser extent, equipment (once you get past Clamp/Jitte/Swords).
A little update with some SoM cards:
Crosis's Charm -> Palladium Myr
Bant Charm -> Trigon of Rage
Bloodhall Ooze -> Ratchet Bomb
Godsire -> Chimeric Mass
The Rack -> Myr Battlesphere
Platinum Angel -> Steel Hellkite
Will-o'-the-Wisp -> Skinrender
Ribbons of Night -> Grasp of Darkness
Skeletal Vampire -> Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon
Serra Avenger wasn't good when I tested her. I W/x aggro decks I've got better things to do on T4. There would also be times on T2 when I wished I had any other 2-drop at all so I could actually cast it.
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Serra Avenger wasn't good when I tested her. I W/x aggro decks I've got better things to do on T4. There would also be times on T2 when I wished I had any other 2-drop at all so I could actually cast it.
Batman haven't seen any play here lately. People just don't play it anymore. For some funny plays I've added the Skeleton Dragon instead. It should be able to create some funny situations with Berserk, etc.
I agree about the Trigon, but when I played it at the release tournament I was just so impressed that I have to try it out. Three counters is more than enough, so it fits into all aggrodecks. It's like an equipment that can equip as instant...
I want to try the Avenger out, because I just got a full frame foil one cheap. I agree about it looking a little sucky on paper, but I don't consider this an aggro only card. I see it as an midrange/control card, where you can drop this with countermana up, or drop this the same turn you play an removal.
I agree with lich about your choices and add the blinking hill giant to the list of cards that I wouldn't play. Since a 3/3 vanilla for 3 man is not good enough, for cube standards, you are paying more than 1 mana for the ability.
Again a card that seemed really good at the release. I don't know how well this will translate to cube, but I'm willing to give it a testrun. I think it will be a short appearance though (probably just until I get my hands on one of the white planeswalkers I'm missing).
skitheryx just seems like an awful waste to me. you realize that he achieves literally nothing unless you win with him? that if you put 8 poison counters on someone and they kill it, you just wasted all that mana and two turns? completely down the drain? i don't think that's worth the occasional berserk play, myself.
When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
In my playgroup noone wanted to play Lone Missionary (including me). It just doesn't really fit into any archetype.
skitheryx just seems like an awful waste to me. you realize that he achieves literally nothing unless you win with him? that if you put 8 poison counters on someone and they kill it, you just wasted all that mana and two turns? completely down the drain? i don't think that's worth the occasional berserk play, myself.
Yeah ofcourse... But for 5 mana you get alot. Evasion, regeneration and a 3 turn clock. I'm not totally convinced myself, but I want to see how it plays out irl and not in theory, so I'm willing to give it a try. This is not a card i expect will stay in for long though. But as I have one, and wanted to remove Batman anyway, so I figured I might as well give it a tryout.
In my playgroup noone wanted to play Lone Missionary (including me). It just doesn't really fit into any archetype.
splashable, 2 power for 2 mana, and the lifegain (which is basically free) is great against other aggressive decks and in decks with life payments. so it basically fits into any aggro or midrange deck with white in it. and i would play it in control as well as an early multiple roadblock against aggro if i didn't have better alternatives (it's basically worth 3 blockers).
Yeah ofcourse... But for 5 mana you get alot. Evasion, regeneration and a 3 turn clock.
evasion only matters if the damage you're dealing with it matters. regeneration only matters if the permanent you're regenerating is getting you anywhere useful in the game. it is a turn 3 clock, but it's a special kind of turn 3 clock which can only win the game by itself. other turn 3 clocks that win by damage can win faster than by their third turn because their damage works with other damage.
and beside all that, you don't get any of that for 5 mana. if you want all that you need to pay 3BBBB. for 5 mana you get a turn 4 clock that fails the terminate test for four turns in a row. it super fails the terminate test. for 3BBBB you get a turn 3 clock that resists some but not most removal and must win the game by itself.
When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
The Lone Missionary looked fine on paper, but was never used in either sealed or draft. It simply didn't make it into the final builds over the 2/1 flyers, random ww Knights or other random 2 drops.
I understand all the argumens against the Blight Dragon - I just want to give it a try anyway. I want to experience how infect plays out in a cube environment, and this guy is the only one that's even close to cubeable.
Out of these, the only other real finisher is Ob Nixilis. All the other cards is utility/removal creatures. Another thing that haven't been mentioned in the Blight Dragons favor is that it's pseudo-removal when blocking. It's a minor bonus, but a bonus non-the-less.
The Lone Missionary looked fine on paper, but was never used in either sealed or draft. It simply didn't make it into the final builds over the 2/1 flyers, random ww Knights or other random 2 drops.
it's never been played because your group believes it doesn't go into any decks. since that's absolutely incorrect, i think you'd be better off giving it a try before you cut it based on false logic. cut it based on experience instead (except you won't because it's great).
When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
it's never been played because your group believes it doesn't go into any decks. since that's absolutely incorrect, i think you'd be better off giving it a try before you cut it based on false logic. cut it based on experience instead (except you won't because it's great).
It sucked ass in RoE draft and sealed. That ofcourse don't translate to cube 1:1, but it says something about the card... But since there's so many that speak so warmly for it, and I have one in foil, I might give it another try.
Lone Missionary is INSANE in aggro mirror matches and fine against anything else. Against control, it's not spectacular, but it also goes into control decks.
When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
The card is also pretty good if you are playing BW where a lot of your own cards tend to hurt you. Just think of it as the creature version of Lightning Helix.
Actually I were just about to compare it with the creature Absorb. As I'm a big absorb fanboy myself... But I just wouldn't go there.
This is my cube comparison results after the update:
Unusual cards
Humility !
Guardian Seraph !
Mangara of Corondor !
Excluded cards
Eternal Dragon
Gideon Jura
Honor of the Pure
Captain of the Watch
Conqueror's Pledge
Serra Avenger
Blue:
Unusual cards
Withdraw !
Concentrate !
Sea Drake !
Excluded cards
Treachery
Willbender
Into the Roil
Body Double
Pact of Negation
Black:
Unusual cards
Chittering Rats !
Crypt Sliver !
Will-o'-the-Wisp !
Victimize !
Wrench Mind !
Raven's Crime !
Scion of Darkness !
Excluded cards
Juzam Djinn
Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief
Red:
Unusual cards
Bloodhall Ooze !
Scrap !
Red Elemental Blast !
Flame Jab !
Lightning Dragon !
Resounding Thunder !
Excluded cards
Starstorm
Kargan Dragonlord
Thunderblust
Gorilla Shaman
Taurean Mauler
Green:
Unusual cards
Crush of Wurms !
Drop of Honey !
Protean Hulk !
Spawnwrithe !
Manaplasm !
Carven Caryatid !
Riding the Dilu Horse !
Farhaven Elf !
Thelonite Hermit !
Excluded cards
Albino Troll
Imperious Perfect
Wild Dogs
Vengevine
Elephant Guide
Master of the Wild Hunt
Search for Tomorrow
Gold:
Unusual cards
Doomgape !
Plaxcaster Frogling !
Demigod of Revenge !
Excluded cards
Unmake
Tricolor:
Unusual cards
Godsire !
Crosis's Charm !
Naya Charm !
Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund !
Rhox War Monk !
Weird Gold Cards:
Unusual cards
Sliver Queen !
Artifacts:
Unusual cards
Mirari !
Wand of the Elements !
Null Rod !
Static Orb !
Excluded cards
Basilisk Collar
Prismatic Lens
Epochrasite
Lands:
Unusual cards
Emrakul, the Aeons Torn !
Mishra's Workshop !
Kozilek, Butcher of Truth !
Excluded cards
Kor Haven
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Only that they're the last cards i need to get. I've been looking for (cheap) foils forever...
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I could, but neither Dragon or Treachery is cheap in non-foil either.
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True true - I won't go bankrupt. But then I'll be looking for the foil version anyway, and obviously I'll find them the day after I aquire non-foils... It's always like that.
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I still don't know what to draft - what would you draft in a 4-man rotesserie?
The current decks I'm thinking about:
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Yeah - figured that much.
As you can see non of my deckchoices include blue (except 5cc, but that hardly counts). Boros deck wins could be another very good option instead of WW.
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There are some combos that are a bit inconsistent in a normal draft that you can take them and be awesome with them.
As I see it (and I have put an absurd number of hours into theorising about wtywlfs cube in the last couple of weeks, seeing as I am in 3 different rot drafts currently), fast artifact mana totally changes the environment, and library tutoring and graveyard recursion are 'combos' that look to be much more broken.
Library: All the mirage tutors, Tinker, Tezzeret, Gifts let you set up broken combos.
Graveyard: Goblin Welder, Crucible, Life from the Loam, Academy Ruins, black/green reanimation
(particularly Nightmare)
Looting effects look like they will bridge the gap nicely by drawing extra cards and putting more in the graveyard. Mongrel and Prowler are good archetype cards.
The lightning bolt deck is probably pretty good. Looks like the only viable aggro deck. Must have: Winter Orb and Tangle Wire.
Just don't draft white or aggro. Fast artifact mana will be prevalent and will completely trump 'phase 1' aggro decks, particularly ones without reach. Control finishers are a dime a dozen, as are wrath effects, and to a lesser extent, equipment (once you get past Clamp/Jitte/Swords).
Crosis's Charm -> Palladium Myr
Bant Charm -> Trigon of Rage
Bloodhall Ooze -> Ratchet Bomb
Godsire -> Chimeric Mass
The Rack -> Myr Battlesphere
Platinum Angel -> Steel Hellkite
Will-o'-the-Wisp -> Skinrender
Ribbons of Night -> Grasp of Darkness
Skeletal Vampire -> Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon
Akrasan Squire -> Revoke Existence
Lone Missionary -> Serra Avenger
Windborn Muse -> Glimmerpoint Stag
Winds of Rath -> Sunblast Angel
Stone Idol Trap -> Arc Trail
Rolling Thunder -> Oxidda Scrapmelter
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I like Skeletal Vampire more than Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon because if the dragon doesn't kill your opponent before it's removed then it's useless.
Serra Avenger wasn't good when I tested her. I W/x aggro decks I've got better things to do on T4. There would also be times on T2 when I wished I had any other 2-drop at all so I could actually cast it.
Batman haven't seen any play here lately. People just don't play it anymore. For some funny plays I've added the Skeleton Dragon instead. It should be able to create some funny situations with Berserk, etc.
I agree about the Trigon, but when I played it at the release tournament I was just so impressed that I have to try it out. Three counters is more than enough, so it fits into all aggrodecks. It's like an equipment that can equip as instant...
I want to try the Avenger out, because I just got a full frame foil one cheap. I agree about it looking a little sucky on paper, but I don't consider this an aggro only card. I see it as an midrange/control card, where you can drop this with countermana up, or drop this the same turn you play an removal.
Again a card that seemed really good at the release. I don't know how well this will translate to cube, but I'm willing to give it a testrun. I think it will be a short appearance though (probably just until I get my hands on one of the white planeswalkers I'm missing).
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skitheryx just seems like an awful waste to me. you realize that he achieves literally nothing unless you win with him? that if you put 8 poison counters on someone and they kill it, you just wasted all that mana and two turns? completely down the drain? i don't think that's worth the occasional berserk play, myself.
In my playgroup noone wanted to play Lone Missionary (including me). It just doesn't really fit into any archetype.
Yeah ofcourse... But for 5 mana you get alot. Evasion, regeneration and a 3 turn clock. I'm not totally convinced myself, but I want to see how it plays out irl and not in theory, so I'm willing to give it a try. This is not a card i expect will stay in for long though. But as I have one, and wanted to remove Batman anyway, so I figured I might as well give it a tryout.
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splashable, 2 power for 2 mana, and the lifegain (which is basically free) is great against other aggressive decks and in decks with life payments. so it basically fits into any aggro or midrange deck with white in it. and i would play it in control as well as an early multiple roadblock against aggro if i didn't have better alternatives (it's basically worth 3 blockers).
evasion only matters if the damage you're dealing with it matters. regeneration only matters if the permanent you're regenerating is getting you anywhere useful in the game. it is a turn 3 clock, but it's a special kind of turn 3 clock which can only win the game by itself. other turn 3 clocks that win by damage can win faster than by their third turn because their damage works with other damage.
and beside all that, you don't get any of that for 5 mana. if you want all that you need to pay 3BBBB. for 5 mana you get a turn 4 clock that fails the terminate test for four turns in a row. it super fails the terminate test. for 3BBBB you get a turn 3 clock that resists some but not most removal and must win the game by itself.
And the Blight Dragon is crap. It is simply outclassed in every way by the better black finishers available.
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I understand all the argumens against the Blight Dragon - I just want to give it a try anyway. I want to experience how infect plays out in a cube environment, and this guy is the only one that's even close to cubeable.
This is my current 5 drops in black.
Ob Nixilis, the Fallen
Predatory Nightstalker (Portal)
Puppeteer Clique
Shriekmaw (Promo Foil)
Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon
Thrashing Wumpus (Foil)
Wei Assassins (Portal)
Out of these, the only other real finisher is Ob Nixilis. All the other cards is utility/removal creatures. Another thing that haven't been mentioned in the Blight Dragons favor is that it's pseudo-removal when blocking. It's a minor bonus, but a bonus non-the-less.
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it's never been played because your group believes it doesn't go into any decks. since that's absolutely incorrect, i think you'd be better off giving it a try before you cut it based on false logic. cut it based on experience instead (except you won't because it's great).
It sucked ass in RoE draft and sealed. That ofcourse don't translate to cube 1:1, but it says something about the card... But since there's so many that speak so warmly for it, and I have one in foil, I might give it another try.
Thx for your input.
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Actually I were just about to compare it with the creature Absorb. As I'm a big absorb fanboy myself... But I just wouldn't go there.
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