Treasure Hunter -> Silver Knight
How do you have White Knight and not Silver Knight? Both protections are relevant, but I think pro red is so much more relevant on a creature that's easily burned away.
Silver Knight is also a card I've totally oversaw. This suggestion seems like a good one.
Sanctum Gargoyle -> Serra Avenger
On the same turn you can not tap out and get a better creature. A 3/3 with vigilance is better than a 2/3. I like the idea of bringing back artifacts, but this guy just seems sub par. Even in a cube this size.
I don't own a Serra Avenger. How good is it? I don't wanna buy one, if it's the next card I will cut anyway. But otherwize I would say Sanctum Gargoyle -> X, where X is the next good white 3 drop that's printed.
Reya Dawnbringer and Angel of Salvation are both sub par, but I think I'd cut Serra Avatar for the E Dragon. It's hard to find better white finishers in a cube this size to replace Reya and the Angel.
I like the Avatar (mostly because I've got a foil one. :)). On my list I think the Angel of Salvation is a little worse than the Avatar, and I will probably cut that one before. Thanks a lot for the suggestions though.
Martyr of Sands Mono white control aren't really a contender in my cube, so I don't think this guy will make it. Kor Skyfisher Really, hmm... I have it in my tribal cube though, so I could try him out if other people agree that this guy is the bomb. Serra Avenger See my comment above. Seht's Tiger Not sold on this one I must admit. Captain of the Watch Will go into my Tribal cube when I get my greasy hands on one. Twilight Shepherd Maybe this could be another finisher, that could replace one of the aforementioned subpar finishers. Mana Tithe Yeah... A card I forgot as well. Abeyance Had it in, but it was cut for beeing to insignificant. Luminarch Ascension It's already in. Pariah Could be interesting. Humility Yeah, I actually thought I bought one, but I haven't got one it turns out. Conqueror's Pledge I have it in my tribal cube though, so I could try him out if other people agree that this guy is good.
@Kor Skyfisher: I am also wondering, how good this card will be for cubing purposes, but it has been really good in T2 Boros and WW decks + it is probably the best white common after Journey to Nowhere in ZZZ.
Early, it is a tempo loss (unless you have Mox ... then tempo gain) ... but some mid-range/control decks would rather have a solid early blocker against aggro then the tempo.
Late game it is usually a 2/3 Flyer for W (since it returns a tapped land to drop ... or 1Wwhich can double a color mana out of one source for another spell) ... It can be useful to "reset" for defenders, re-use 187 creatures, reset counters on lands (vivids, Gemstone Mine) and Planeswalkers (double use that turn too), ect.
It is just a solid little package. Better in Powered Cube than tribal cube/T2 IMO.
We've had Serra Avenger in for quite a while and I've yet to be disappointed by her. Dropping her on turn four is absolutely fine. If I play her in aggro, I've probably got other creatures and things to be playing on the first three turns anyway. The same for midrange and control. She's even nice in UW control where you can play her on turn four and still have two mana open to protect her with a counterspell. I think she'd be a worthy investment. You should be able to pick one up for about 3.00 USD.
We've had Serra Avenger in for quite a while and I've yet to be disappointed by her. Dropping her on turn four is absolutely fine. If I play her in aggro, I've probably got other creatures and things to be playing on the first three turns anyway. The same for midrange and control. She's even nice in UW control where you can play her on turn four and still have two mana open to protect her with a counterspell. I think she'd be a worthy investment. You should be able to pick one up for about 3.00 USD.
+1 on this, I really like the Avenger and as Calibretto pointed out she can go in a lot of decks.
In addition to those listed, I'd cut Sunlance, and Terashi's Grasp. Also, how is Jotun Owl Keeper working for you ... seems pretty bad/slow if it doesn't trade with counters already on it ... I do like your unique choices of Reciprocate and Porphyry Nodes ... those look pretty cool:D
In addition to those listed, I'd cut Sunlance, and Terashi's Grasp. Also, how is Jotun Owl Keeper working for you ... seems pretty bad/slow if it doesn't trade with counters already on it ... I do like your unique choices of Reciprocate and Porphyry Nodes ... those look pretty cool:D
I think Sunlance could be cut fairly easy. I do like Terashi's Grasp though - in a cube as large as mine I need some alternative Disenchant effects.
I was wondering if anyone would mention the Jotun Owl Keeper. It's actually been surprisingly good so far. It comes down as the last thread in a WW deck. If you drop the Owl Keeper, you don't really need to commit any more, and he will guarentee you some creatures after a ***. That said, I have been really close to cutting him several times, and it's definatly on the chopping board.
I would recommend against adding Humility just for the general headache it causes
is Reciprocate that good? seems to me like you don't want to be taking damage before you can remove a creature.
Has Serenity been working well for you guys? i have been thinking about adding it. Twilight Shepherd was pretty poor for us when we had it in, its just very weak compare to the other white finishers
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That is indeed an upgrade. Steppe Lynx seems a bit underpowered though.
Agreed. I don't really understand the recent love for Steppe Lynx in cubes. Kird Ape this guy is not. At all. He can't reliably be a 2/3, so I don't think he makes the cut.
Agreed. I don't really understand the recent love for Steppe Lynx in cubes. Kird Ape this guy is not. At all. He can't reliably be a 2/3, so I don't think he makes the cut.
I think it's because he is quite good in Zendikar limited & people dream of having him turn 1 with a bunch of fetchlands. He really wants to be in a deck with at least 17 lands which is rare for aggro cube decks and if I don't want to play him in my white aggro decks why is he even in the cube?
I don't really understand the recent love for Steppe Lynx in cubes. Kird Ape this guy is not. At all. He can't reliably be a 2/3, so I don't think he makes the cut.
I'll try and explain the reason why I put it in my cube, and it may or may not be the same logic used by others who have been adding him in recently:
You're right. He's not consistently a 2/3. However, he's more consistently a 2 power creature for W than any other white 1-drop right now (other than the main three: Savannah Lions, Elite Vanguard and Isamaru, Hound of Konda). The only other option for a 4th 2-power 1-drop creature is Akrasan Squire. I use the Lynx over the Squire for a few reasons. Mainly, I want to be able to attack with multiple creatures (something that white aggro likes to do, not only to maximize pressure, but also to make use of all the Anthem-type effects the color uses). Squire cannot do this effectively. Neither can any other aggressive white 1-drop, if you're looking for a 4th one. Squire is a better white mid-range 1-drop where he may be able to attack for 2 a few times, and then pump another dude later on (if you're only swinging with one guy at a time). That's fine, if that's the effect you want, but it's not powerful enough in hard aggro. The Lynx IS consistent enough (being that lands are easy to draw/play) to be attacking early, and then attack when you draw lands later. He can also be combined with a few other cards, like Fetch Lands to increase attack power, Bounce Lands to increase consistency, and things like Knight of the White Orchid, Kor Skyfisher, Life From the Loam, Crucible of Worlds, Undiscovered Paradise, Farseek, Harrow, Kodama's Reach, Land Tax, Yavimaya Elder and so on. He's not the best creature, but he's the best current option for players (like myself) looking for a (4th) 2-power 1-drop white creature.
He's not the best creature, but he's the best current option for players (like myself) looking for a (4th) 2-power 1-drop white creature.
This I agree with, I don't like Akrasan Squire at all. Your cube is going to be pretty set up to abuse the Lynx as much as possible so I'd like to hear how he does after some field testing. BTW have you considered putting Fastbond back in? Works well with a lot of the landfall enablers and could enable some pretty silly plays.
I've considered Fastbond, but unless I have it and Loam/Crucible at the same time, it won't be much better than Exploration. I'd rather use ramp cards that generate resources for me I don't already have in my hand.
The Steppe Lynx has only been cast once. I don't want to use that as a staple for how it will perform all the time, but it was insane in that one game. I played it on T1 off of a Brushland in WG aggro. Turn 2 I Wooded Foothills'd into a Forest, played a Pridemage and swung for 5. Turn 3 I played a Plains and a Harrow... and swung for 8 (6 with the Lynx). Even though I missed my next land drop (I made my 5th turn land drop though, and swung for the win after playing a Journey to Nowhere on his blocker) it was still just about the best W ever spent. Now, obviously that can't happen every time, but I'll gladly use cards that enable broken plays like that whenever possible. I got in for 10 (ten) damage in my first 2 swings ...with just the Lynx. Pretty good. Some times he'll be below average, and other times he can be insane. Those kinds of cards are fun to play with, so long as the opportunities to make them good are under your control. There's a lot of cards you can use to help make that guy good... and all of those support cards are already in the cube.
I hated the Lynx at first, but he's pretty decent. Try him out for yourself. If you hate it, cut it... but he just may very well turn out to be good.
I think he did drop the Pridemage before swinging. The fetch made him a 2/3, the land that got fetched made him a 4/5, and the exalted bonus from Pridemage made him a 5/6.
That did make some sense, wtwlf. You're a man who knows how to defend his card choices, I'll give you that. I can now understand why some people choose to run the Lynx a little more. However, I still don't like him. The game you saw him in seems absolute insane, but that's the ideal hand with him. Most likely (when he hits turn one) he'll probably get in for at least four damage before being answered. Other times you might not see him until turn four or later, in which case I don't see his value. The odds of seeing him after turn three are much higher than the odds of seeing during those first three crucial aggro turns of the game. That's why I don't think he'll make the cut in my cube.
I think he did drop the Pridemage before swinging. The fetch made him a 2/3, the land that got fetched made him a 4/5, and the exalted bonus from Pridemage made him a 5/6.
Yeah, I was looking at the swung for 6 off the Harrow and then ended up dealing a total of 10 damage part. Total damage off 2 swings: 11!
Ya, 11 on two swings, 10 on his own merits (+1 from Pridemage).
Ya, he's a bad topdeck, but that's okay. Lots of aggro creatures don't make for the best of topdecks. *shrug*
If they print another Savanah Lions clone, I'll probably cut him for it... but as of right now, he's got a spot as the 4th place aggro white 1-drop.
If you think that game was crazy... check the "it could only happen in a cube draft" thread i a few minutes. I've got a game from last night that'll blow you away.
What's with the crossed out cards? Includes you don't have yet or something? They seem too strong not to run.
EDIT: I'd also run the M10 duals. Not sure what to cut for them - the trilands perhaps?
EDIT 2: I see you already run Reflecting Pool. Must have looked over it, sorry.
What's with the crossed out cards? Includes you don't have yet or something? They seem too strong not to run.
EDIT: I'd also run the M10 duals. Not sure what to cut for them - the trilands perhaps?
EDIT 2: I see you already run Reflecting Pool. Must have looked over it, sorry.
The Dust Bowl I should add I guess.
You guessed correctly with the crossed out cards - it's cards I don't own yet.
Silver Knight is also a card I've totally oversaw. This suggestion seems like a good one.
I don't own a Serra Avenger. How good is it? I don't wanna buy one, if it's the next card I will cut anyway. But otherwize I would say Sanctum Gargoyle -> X, where X is the next good white 3 drop that's printed.
I like the Avatar (mostly because I've got a foil one. :)). On my list I think the Angel of Salvation is a little worse than the Avatar, and I will probably cut that one before. Thanks a lot for the suggestions though.
Martyr of Sands Mono white control aren't really a contender in my cube, so I don't think this guy will make it.
Kor Skyfisher Really, hmm... I have it in my tribal cube though, so I could try him out if other people agree that this guy is the bomb.
Serra Avenger See my comment above.
Seht's Tiger Not sold on this one I must admit.
Captain of the Watch Will go into my Tribal cube when I get my greasy hands on one.
Twilight Shepherd Maybe this could be another finisher, that could replace one of the aforementioned subpar finishers.
Mana Tithe Yeah... A card I forgot as well.
Abeyance Had it in, but it was cut for beeing to insignificant.
Luminarch Ascension It's already in.
Pariah Could be interesting.
Humility Yeah, I actually thought I bought one, but I haven't got one it turns out.
Conqueror's Pledge I have it in my tribal cube though, so I could try him out if other people agree that this guy is good.
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Early, it is a tempo loss (unless you have Mox ... then tempo gain) ... but some mid-range/control decks would rather have a solid early blocker against aggro then the tempo.
Late game it is usually a 2/3 Flyer for W (since it returns a tapped land to drop ... or 1Wwhich can double a color mana out of one source for another spell) ... It can be useful to "reset" for defenders, re-use 187 creatures, reset counters on lands (vivids, Gemstone Mine) and Planeswalkers (double use that turn too), ect.
It is just a solid little package. Better in Powered Cube than tribal cube/T2 IMO.
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+1 on this, I really like the Avenger and as Calibretto pointed out she can go in a lot of decks.
Some of the mentioned cutting-options so far:
Are there other cards I've forgot?
And what other cards could i cut?
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In addition to those listed, I'd cut Sunlance, and Terashi's Grasp. Also, how is Jotun Owl Keeper working for you ... seems pretty bad/slow if it doesn't trade with counters already on it ... I do like your unique choices of Reciprocate and Porphyry Nodes ... those look pretty cool:D
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=385729
I think Sunlance could be cut fairly easy. I do like Terashi's Grasp though - in a cube as large as mine I need some alternative Disenchant effects.
I was wondering if anyone would mention the Jotun Owl Keeper. It's actually been surprisingly good so far. It comes down as the last thread in a WW deck. If you drop the Owl Keeper, you don't really need to commit any more, and he will guarentee you some creatures after a ***. That said, I have been really close to cutting him several times, and it's definatly on the chopping board.
I've added the suggestions to the post.
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is Reciprocate that good? seems to me like you don't want to be taking damage before you can remove a creature.
Has Serenity been working well for you guys? i have been thinking about adding it.
Twilight Shepherd was pretty poor for us when we had it in, its just very weak compare to the other white finishers
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Uhm... what changed?
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Made a want list, changed a few cards, bought two moxes and a couple of other cards, and bumped the thread.
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That is indeed an upgrade. Steppe Lynx seems a bit underpowered though.
Agreed. I don't really understand the recent love for Steppe Lynx in cubes. Kird Ape this guy is not. At all. He can't reliably be a 2/3, so I don't think he makes the cut.
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I think it's because he is quite good in Zendikar limited & people dream of having him turn 1 with a bunch of fetchlands. He really wants to be in a deck with at least 17 lands which is rare for aggro cube decks and if I don't want to play him in my white aggro decks why is he even in the cube?
I'll try and explain the reason why I put it in my cube, and it may or may not be the same logic used by others who have been adding him in recently:
You're right. He's not consistently a 2/3. However, he's more consistently a 2 power creature for W than any other white 1-drop right now (other than the main three: Savannah Lions, Elite Vanguard and Isamaru, Hound of Konda). The only other option for a 4th 2-power 1-drop creature is Akrasan Squire. I use the Lynx over the Squire for a few reasons. Mainly, I want to be able to attack with multiple creatures (something that white aggro likes to do, not only to maximize pressure, but also to make use of all the Anthem-type effects the color uses). Squire cannot do this effectively. Neither can any other aggressive white 1-drop, if you're looking for a 4th one. Squire is a better white mid-range 1-drop where he may be able to attack for 2 a few times, and then pump another dude later on (if you're only swinging with one guy at a time). That's fine, if that's the effect you want, but it's not powerful enough in hard aggro. The Lynx IS consistent enough (being that lands are easy to draw/play) to be attacking early, and then attack when you draw lands later. He can also be combined with a few other cards, like Fetch Lands to increase attack power, Bounce Lands to increase consistency, and things like Knight of the White Orchid, Kor Skyfisher, Life From the Loam, Crucible of Worlds, Undiscovered Paradise, Farseek, Harrow, Kodama's Reach, Land Tax, Yavimaya Elder and so on. He's not the best creature, but he's the best current option for players (like myself) looking for a (4th) 2-power 1-drop white creature.
Hope that makes at least some sense.
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This I agree with, I don't like Akrasan Squire at all. Your cube is going to be pretty set up to abuse the Lynx as much as possible so I'd like to hear how he does after some field testing. BTW have you considered putting Fastbond back in? Works well with a lot of the landfall enablers and could enable some pretty silly plays.
The Steppe Lynx has only been cast once. I don't want to use that as a staple for how it will perform all the time, but it was insane in that one game. I played it on T1 off of a Brushland in WG aggro. Turn 2 I Wooded Foothills'd into a Forest, played a Pridemage and swung for 5. Turn 3 I played a Plains and a Harrow... and swung for 8 (6 with the Lynx). Even though I missed my next land drop (I made my 5th turn land drop though, and swung for the win after playing a Journey to Nowhere on his blocker) it was still just about the best W ever spent. Now, obviously that can't happen every time, but I'll gladly use cards that enable broken plays like that whenever possible. I got in for 10 (ten) damage in my first 2 swings ...with just the Lynx. Pretty good. Some times he'll be below average, and other times he can be insane. Those kinds of cards are fun to play with, so long as the opportunities to make them good are under your control. There's a lot of cards you can use to help make that guy good... and all of those support cards are already in the cube.
I hated the Lynx at first, but he's pretty decent. Try him out for yourself. If you hate it, cut it... but he just may very well turn out to be good.
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That did make some sense, wtwlf. You're a man who knows how to defend his card choices, I'll give you that. I can now understand why some people choose to run the Lynx a little more. However, I still don't like him. The game you saw him in seems absolute insane, but that's the ideal hand with him. Most likely (when he hits turn one) he'll probably get in for at least four damage before being answered. Other times you might not see him until turn four or later, in which case I don't see his value. The odds of seeing him after turn three are much higher than the odds of seeing during those first three crucial aggro turns of the game. That's why I don't think he'll make the cut in my cube.
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Yeah, I was looking at the swung for 6 off the Harrow and then ended up dealing a total of 10 damage part. Total damage off 2 swings: 11!
Ya, he's a bad topdeck, but that's okay. Lots of aggro creatures don't make for the best of topdecks. *shrug*
If they print another Savanah Lions clone, I'll probably cut him for it... but as of right now, he's got a spot as the 4th place aggro white 1-drop.
If you think that game was crazy... check the "it could only happen in a cube draft" thread i a few minutes. I've got a game from last night that'll blow you away.
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If you have any comments I would be glad to hear them. Did I miss any cards, and what cards do you think I should cut.
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What's with the crossed out cards? Includes you don't have yet or something? They seem too strong not to run.
EDIT: I'd also run the M10 duals. Not sure what to cut for them - the trilands perhaps?
EDIT 2: I see you already run Reflecting Pool. Must have looked over it, sorry.
The Dust Bowl I should add I guess.
You guessed correctly with the crossed out cards - it's cards I don't own yet.
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