So I never actually posted the Fate Reforged update, so here's what we did.
IN --> OUT
Mardu Woe-Reaper --> Knight of Meadowgrain
Monastery Mentor --> Spirit of the Labyrinth
Mardu Strike Leader --> Grim Haruspex
Brutal Hordechief --> Shadowborn Demon
Ugin, the Spirit Dragon --> Mortarpod
Soulfire Grand Master --> Lightning Angel
Alesha, Who Smiles at Death --> Crackling Doom
Yasova Dragonclaw --> Rattleclaw Mystic
Tasigur, the Golden Fang --> Sultai Charm
I'm still not 100% sold on replacing some a couple of these tri color cards, namely Lightning Angel and Rattleclaw Mystic. Should DTK give us even more solid tri color options, then I may rethink the organization here and move these tribrids to their respective monocolor section (as we did with Brutal Hordechief). This would also let me add in Warden of the First Tree, which I fee like I'm doing myself a disservice by not including right now.
In addition to those changes, we also made these few minor changes that weren't FRF related.
Riftwing Cloudskate --> Waterfront Bouncer
I think Cloudskate will see more play. My group just aren't fans of the bouncer.
Treasure Cruise --> Shelldock Isle
We mostly just wanted to see what all the fuss is about. How much Delve is too much Delve?
Feldon of the Third Path --> Molten Rain
Lots of solid reviews for this dude on here. I don't really support the artifact deck among Grixis colors, but I don't think this guy really needs that in order to be relevant.
Venser, the Sojourner --> Momentary Blink
Kind of like for like here. We like the blink deck and Venser is honestly a better enabler in that deck than Blink itself.
And while we're at it, in addition to aaallll of those changes, we're also thinking of making the following changes, but I'd like to get some feedback before we pull the trigger.
Kor Sanctifiers --> Mikaeus, the Lunarch
Seal of Cleansing --> Entreat the Angels
Ancestral Vision --> Gilded Drake
Tolarian Academy --> Stifle
Dark Ritual --> Sinkhole
Monastery Swiftspear --> Reckless Reveler
Eidolon of the Great Revel --> Altac Bloodseeker
Smash to Smithereens --> Keldon Vandals
Viridian Shaman --> Somberwald Sage
Avenger of Zendikar --> Pelakka Wurm
Gaea's Cradle --> Birthing Pod
Tattermunge Maniac --> Kessig Wolf Run
I like all the changes you actually made, although I prefer bouncer to cloudskate. Bouncer is also a discard outlet, which is useful because so many reanimator decks are UB.
In the proposed changes, I'd keep Sinkhole because it's so undercosted and brutal but Dark Ritual is a fantastic add (and they go together: T1: Dark Ritual -> Sinkhole + Gravecrawler).
At 450, I run both Smash and the Vandals, so I'd look for another cut or not add Eidolon.
I was never crazy about Sancifiers but at this size it might be necessary.
I agree on Bouncer, but my crew just doesn't play that card. Dedicated reanimator in general actually doesn't come up all that often. I think Cloudskate will see more time in decks than Bouncer ever has.
Sinkhole is another one that, for whatever reason, just doesn't get played. I like it, but I gravitate toward black strategies (Sui Aggro, Pox, etc) and Sinkhole is good in those decks. The rest of my group wants to play black in more control decks, so Sinkhole often gets left in the sideboard if I'm not the one drafting it. The OP is up to date. Is there another cut you'd recommend to get Ritual back in, but keep Sinkhole in the mix?
I kind of want to test Eidolon for a bit, but just not adding him in favor of the extra artifact hate might be the right option.
What sparked this change is going through my list compared to smaller lists like yours and wtwlf's and realizing that my artifact/enchantment hate was quite a bit lower than expected. I looked at recent changes and noticed that I've made a habit of looking to these "weaker" artifact/enchantment hate cards as cut targets for new cards. So I'm thinking that, in order to have enough answers available to annoying things like Swords, Moat, and Shackles, I have to run something a little less flashy like Kor Sanctifiers.
Once again I suck at updating this thread and using it for its actual purpose of getting feedback on inclusions and cuts. Here are my DTK changes:
IN --> OUT
Dragon Hunter --> Cloistered Youth
Hidden Dragonslayer --> Ajani, Caller of the Pride
Stratus Dancer --> Aether Adept
Silumgar Assassin --> Reassembling Skeleton
Ire Shaman --> Prophetic Flamespeaker
Zurgo Bellstriker --> Chandra's Phoenix
Ainok Survivalist --> Viridian Shaman
Den Protector --> Mayor of Avabruck
Dragonlord Silumgar --> Duskmantle Seer
Kolaghan's Command --> Falkenrath Aristocrat
Willbender --> Psionic Blast
Bane of the Living --> Brutal Hordechief
Sarkhan Unbroken --> Flex Section
Brutal Hordechief --> Flex Section
Rattleclaw Mystic --> Flex Section
Lightning Angel --> Flex Section
Warden of the First Tree --> Flex Section
On top of the six morphs added in with the DTK update, we also decided to bring back Willbender and Bane of the Living to see how they fair among more face down creatures. We also decided to stop going back and forth on where these tribrid cards should be organized. One per section was just not enough for some of the wedge combos and in at least one case, even two per section wasn't enough. So we just said '**** it' and simply went back to 555 which is where we were for a very long time anyway. Now I don't feel like I'm limiting myself based on numbers and I can run the cards I want to run without worrying about organization. This also let me add in Rattleclaw Mystic as an additional morph.
On top of those changes, we also made this giant round of updates this weekend just to change things up a bit.
Seeker of the Way --> Leonin Relic-Warder
Rout --> Ajani Steadfast
Ojutai Exemplars --> Elspeth Tirel
Secure the Wastes --> Eternal Dragon
Personal Tutor --> Jace, Memory Adept
Repeal --> Time Spiral
Tezzeret the Seeker --> Jace, Architect of Thought
Tradewind Rider --> Dismiss
Academy Ruins --> Standstill
Despise --> Smallpox
The Abyss --> Liliana Vess
Goblin Welder --> Bonfire of the Damned
Daretti, Scrap Savant --> Fireblast
Searing Blaze --> Forked Bolt
Eidolon of the Great Revel --> Pillage
Sylvan Tutor --> Strangleroot Geist
Worldly Tutor --> Call of the Herd
Polukranos, World Eater --> Ohran Viper
Surrak, the Hunt Caller --> Troll Ascetic
Farseek --> Twinblade Slasher
Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas --> Far//Away
Knight of the Reliquary --> Voice of Resurgence
Yavimaya Coast --> Flooded Grove
Shivan Reef --> Cascade Bluffs
Fire // Ice --> Electrolyze
Metalworker --> Soul of New Phyrexia
Vivid Meadow --> Perilous Myr
Vivid Creek --> Bottle Gnomes
Vivid Marsh --> Chimeric Idol
Vivid Crag --> Loxodon Warhammer
Vivid Grove --> Oblivion Stone
The white changes should come as no shock. I've seen a lot of talk about the "spells matter" archetype and I want to push it a little harder that I already am. I also felt that another Wrath effect was needed and Rout was next on the list for that function for me.
Personal Tutor (as well as the two green tutors) are directly related to wtwlf's recent rise to 540. He's obviously a fan of the tutors and I want to see how well they do for us. I honestly kind of wonder why we weren't already running these. Tutors are awesome. We also came to a decision to include support for the artifact deck, which is something I've never done before. I have no idea how it will perform with my group, if they'll like it when it does come together, or if it's even an archetype they'll all be interested in at all. Time will tell, but it's something new and different for us and I'm excited to try it out. Tradewind is just a sort of pet nostalgia card for me, so I wanted to give it a shot.
As big of a fan of Pox and black based control decks as I am, I have no idea why I wasn't already running The Abyss. GTFO, Liliana Vess.
The red updates are mostly in line with the artifact deck, but I did want to give Searing Blaze and Eidolon of the Great Revel a shot. That's mostly based on the high praise these cards get from the Third Power guys. I've never played either in cube, so I wanted to see for myself.
I cut Polukranos and, after seeing how he's currently tearing it up in Standard, I kind of missed him. So back in he goes as well as a test run for Surrak who seems to be getting mixed reviews. He's another card I want to try for myself.
The multicolor changes are pretty boring. We decided to drop the filter lands in UG and UR in favor of pain lands. I still like the filters in the color pairs that can be tough on CC costs, but these two don't really fall into that category.
And finally, we added the five Vivids. This is another pretty much copy from wtwlf's update. With the extra multicolor cards going in since Khans was released, it makes sense to find room for more fixing. I actually like the tri lands more than the Vivids, but I like only taking up five slots instead of ten a lot more.
The OP and CubeTutor are both up to date. Give it a look (and a draft). I'd love to see what someone other than me can come up with when trying to force spells matter or artifact.dek.
The changes look very cool overall. It's cool that you're bringing in the artifact package and you are now playing most of the important pieces. I also love how you're bringing in Farseek in the place of Twinblade Slasher - not that it's a bad card, but I think Green decks overall would prefer the ramp spell. The UG and the UR painlands are better than the respective filters, so that's also a plus. I would personally keep Falkenrath Aristocrat rather than Murderous Redcap but I assume that the Redcap plays better with your Pox decks.
Parallax Wave offers a similar removal effect as Fetters, but it slots better into the aggro decks. Entreat is a tool for white control and ramp decks. Captain is good, but not need given the current aggro creature count in white.
Thirst for Knowledge --> Into the Roil
Trinket Mage --> Serendib Efreet
This is just a couple more tools to try to help push the artifact deck and make it a thing. So far my group has only had the respective cards in generic control decks. I hope adding these types of cards helps to turn it into an actual draftable archetype.
These three additions are an attempt to make devotion a thing in blue. Honestly, I'm a little sad to see Tradewind go so early as it's a bit of a pet card. I think it's for the best, though. I hope this is an archetype that happens and we get to see some sweet interactions with Master of Waves.
Dauthi Horror --> Guul Draz Assassin
Sidisi, Undead Vizier --> Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief
Smallpox --> Bane of the Living
Reassembling Skeleton --> Curse of Shallow Graves
Assassin proved to be slow and cumbersome. It was typically a 23rd card. Horror will help to push black aggro a little more. Sidisi over Drana seems obvious. I'll admit that I'll miss Drana, though. I like her a lot. Smallpox and Skeleton are going back in to help out the Pox/Stax deck. As a bonus, Skeleton also plays well with Sidisi. I chose to cut Bane of the Living because the morph package hasn't really paid off and I'd rather have the archetype support. Curse was good, but not amazing. It requires some set up and it doesn't do anything on an empty board.
Not much to see in these changes. I'm just pushing green aggro a bit more. I want so bad for Farseek to be a Sylvan Scrying to puts the land into play. It got the axe because there were too many times that I wanted to be able to grab a Forest and couldn't. Phantom Centaur can be powerful, but it's the most midrange-y of midrange-y cards.
Prismatic Lens --> Zuran Orb
Zuran Orb basically never saw play. Ever. Lens helps to push the artifact deck and replaces Farseek as a ramp card.
Sarkhan Vol --> Domri Rade
I like Domri more than most, but I want to give Sarkhan another shot in an attempt to help out green as an aggro option. He didn't see much play when he was in before, but I'm hoping that will change this time around.
Sorin, Solemn Visitor --> Utter End
Utter End isn't really needed as an effect. Sorin is just a solid 'walker. He'll slot into any Orzhov deck and he'll help out the tokens deck tremendously.
Trinket Mage is fine and all, and I get why you added it but... do people in your group dislike Serendib? It's such a good creature. I would axe Aether Adept over this (the UU in the mana cost is often awkward, in my experience).
Dungeon Geists --> Tradewind Rider
Love this change. I was a big fan of Tradewind back in the day but his time has come and gone. Dungeon Geists is a good man.
Prismatic Lens --> Zuran Orb
I like this one too. Lens gets overlooked a lot but it has one (pretty important) job and does it well.
Sagu Mauler --> Simic Sky Swallower
We're giving the Mauler a run for a while over Sky Swallower. I hope it's at least just as good and I don't miss the flying.
I doubt you will. Mauler is a very solid man. You lose flying, sure, but you start hitting hard a few turns earlier and that can easily make up for the loss of evasion. Good change, IMO.
Serendib might still be cubeable at 555, but I cut it a while ago and don't miss it. I'd bring back Aether Adept first because even with the l3ess-than ideal casting cost he's another tool for the blink deck.
No one actively dislikes Serendib, I don't think, but it was probably the least popular of the blue 3cc creatures that we currently run. If we see Trinket Mage sitting in sideboards, then Serendib can come back. I'm skeptical of the Trinket Mage because the targets are so limited, but we'll see. Aether Adept went in to help make blue devotion work. He's been in and out a couple times now and he's never bad, just cost restrictive. At this point, I'd cut Mage first for sure.
There's actually quite a few cards on this list that weren't necessarily under performing, but had to go to make room. Seeker of the Way could come back. Clever Impersonator was always fine. Nezumi Graverobber or Ob Nixilis of the Black Oath could come back considering black's lack of options in those slots. Lightning Strike is a solid spell. River Boa might come back over Strangleroot Geist now that Boon Satyr is gone, but then again, Boon Satyr is a fine man. He could come back at some point. Titania could come back if the lands package ever actually becomes a supportable archetype. The rest have probably either done their time or just weren't cutting it.
Lightning Greaves always kind of felt like a filler equipment to me. It just didn't help to push any decks over the top, so I wasn't too sad to see it go.
I've really liked it in my ramp/reanimator/cheaty decks so you can swing with an untargetable fatty right away. It also can protect a mana dork in the meantime. It sometimes helps Eureka and Show & Tell be even worse for the opponent. I don't think it's essential, but I'm happy with it at 450, so I know I'd keep it at 555.
I've not paid much attention to this thread in nearly two years now, which is probably a direct correlation to the existence of CubeTutor. Anyway, PhotoBucket screwed me over and no longer allows free third party hosting, so I had to come update the OP to remove the banners and pics. It's now up to date through Hour of Devastation. Here's a little write up on those changes. Feedback is always appreciated (even if you just want to complain about PhotoBucket).
IN --> OUT
Adorned Pouncer --> Trueheart Duelist
Duelist has not been impressive as a two drop creature. It feels very out of its element by being an aggressively costed creature that doesn't fit into aggressive decks. The blocking multiple creatures is irrelevant on a creature that doesn't want to be blocking. Pouncer is the opposite of this. It's a creature that wants to attack and attack hard. The Eternalize is a little pricey, but's something nice to be able to do with your mana if the game somehow goes long on your aggro deck. Also, a 4/4 double striker might just be what your aggro deck needs to close out that long winded game.
Angel of Condemnation --> Gisela, the Broken Blade
I really like Gisela in this slot, but she's a little boring. She does a great job at what she does, but what she does is nothing fancy. Angel of Condemnation, however, offers up a ton of utility and combo potential. Plus my group really likes blink strategies. I don't think AoC will be a permanent staple inclusion, but I do think she'll be a fun card to build decks with while she's in the cube. She may prove to be a little too low impact, in which case, Gisela would just slot back in.
Nimble Obstructionist --> Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
Kira has been a personal favorite of mine in cube for years now. She's great in the UX tempo decks that I love and is just a general pain in the ass. I like this swap because Nimble Obstructionist will also fit into those same tempo decks at the same spot on the curve, but won't require such a heavy blue commitment and won't be limited to those tempo lists like Kira typically is.
Supreme Will --> Into the Roil
This was a fairly easy swap. Into the Roil is a fine filler card and Supreme Will will also be a fine filler card. The difference is one's been in and out of the cube for years and one is new. I am excited to get some reps in with this, though. It tested ok and I think it'll be nice to have the versatility that it offers.
Bontu's Last Reckoning --> Malicious Affliction
Getting full value out of a morbid trigger has proven to be more than a little difficult in cube. I think Malicious Affliction is a solid card and worth inclusion in a 540 list, but I like this swap because Bontu's Last Reckoning will do a similar job better and not require any hoop jumping to make it happen. So far in testing, BLR has played very well with the land exert not being near as detrimental as I thought it might be. The bottom line here is that three mana Wraths are really good.
Abrade --> Collective Defiance
This is basically cutting one utility modal spell for another, but I do think Abrade is a better, more versatile card. I don't like that it can't hit players, but for a modal spell at two mana, I think that's asking a bit much. There are plenty of X/3 creatures and artifacts in cube that need to be dealt with and this card does that handily. Collective Defiance has been decent, but the RR cost, typically being cast for four instead of three, and almost never using the Windfall mode tells me it's just not efficient enough for what I want modal spells to be doing in cube. Abrade is a welcome addition.
Burning-Fist Minotaur --> Aether Chaser
The Minotaur isn't exciting, but I like him more than Aether Chaser. They have similar bodies, but the ability to hit for four first strike damage is better than the extra 1/1 Servo the Chaser gives me. The threat of activation on this guy will likely result in more damage getting through in the long run. Really, this is just another interesting red aggro dork on the way to the next one.
Ramunap Excavator --> Duskwatch Recruiter
Green cuts are getting tough. I'm choosing to cut Recruiter here because it's good, but not great. Maybe it's better than Ronas, but we've just not had enough play time with Ronas yet to make that call. I really wanted Recruiter to be a little card advantage engine, but he often flips at inopportune times and is just kind of inconvenient.
The Locust God --> Ral Zarek
I'm not sure that this god is actually good enough for cube, but I do want to get more reps in with him. I don't mind cutting Ral Zarek here because Izzet is chock full of solid planeswalkers and, simply put, Ral's been in the longest. We usually don't get to draft more than once per month and I'd rather keep Saheeli around because she's not been in for very long and she's been pretty solid so far. Ral is good, but expendable, especially to try out something new. On paper, The Locust Good looks like a great top end for Izzet decks. It does a lot of things. It is, however, a six mana 4/4 which leaves a little to be desired. I do think it's worth some extra time in cube, though, especially at 540 with five Izzet slots available.
The Scarab God --> Shadowmage Infiltrator
I think Finkel's time has come. The more like for like swap here would definitely be Dragonlord Silumgar, but my group are pretty big fans of the dragon and have expressed that they'd prefer the dragon to the god. I think The Scarab God has a ton of potential, though, and I really want to give him some extended time in the cube. I'm cutting Shadowmage Infiltrator because the Dimir decks already have plenty of options at the three drop spot, but the five drop spot isn't near as populated.
This is as like for like as swaps can get. I like both of these versions of Bolas quite a bit. They're both really powerful and incredibly impactful on the game. I think the original will ultimately prove to be more powerful, but I am excited to get some reps in with the new version. He has a cheaper cost and doesn't require as much commitment to black. I don't truly believe those things will have much impact on his value and playability, but they will definitely have some. Also, it's just nice to play with new shiny cards, so I think God-Pharaoh deserves at least some spotlight time based on that alone.
Simultaneous Changes
Thing in the Ice --> Stratus Dancer
This removes a predictable morph that's not very popular for something new to build around that has a really fun effect on game play.
Torrential Gearhulk --> Riftwing Cloudskate
I want to try out Gearhulk to see how it plays. I see it in a lot of lists and hear good things about it. It's also gotten a lot more support in recent sets. Cloudskate has been in and out a few times over the years. It's a solid card, but isn't necessary to support anything specific.
Nezumi Graverobber --> Vampire Lacerator
We have plenty of black one drops now. I kind of miss having Graverobber around. He's a solid inclusion for graveyard hate and a monster when he flips.
Pia Nalaar --> Fire Imp
This is a similar swap to Gearhulk. I'm interested in seeing how Pia plays. Fire Imp, like Cloudskate, is fine, but not necessary to support any archetypes. Pia will be decent in aggro and decent in artifact decks. Also, Fire Imp really just isn't that popular around here anymore and I've had it stranded in my hand against a creatureless board on more than one occasion.
Channel --> Search for Tomorrow
Considering that the cube now has several colorless monsters as options, I thought it would be a fine time to try out Channel again. We had it in once before and it really didn't perform well. Not because it wasn't powerful, but mostly because it seemed like my group just wasn't interested in doing that sort of thing at the time. We'll see how it goes this time. I like to change things up a bit every now and then.
Life from the Loam --> Song of the Dryads
Titania, Protector of Argoth --> Regal Behemoth
The Gitrog Monster --> Garruk, Apex Predator
I'm lumping these three changes together because it's an attempt to try to support the lands matter deck now that we also get Ramunap Excavator. Titania played well before, but just didn't have a real home. Life from the Loam was in for a long time and often went late because my players just weren't interested in it. It just didn't feel synergistic enough with what most decks were trying to do. The Gitrog Monster is something I hope will pull this deck together. Garruk has been solid as a seven mana ramp target for those decks, but isn't exactly a staple. I have five slots for my guilds, so I don't feel like I'm excluding anything important to make room for the hypno-toad here. I'm also already running Knight of the Reliquary in Selesnya, so hopefully this deck can actually come together. Worst case, they all go back into the binder until we get another piece of the lands matter puzzle.
Desolation Angel --> Kaya, Ghost Assassin
This is just bringing back an old favorite in place of a planeswalker that hasn't really performed as well as I thought it would. Kaya is fine, but not great and Deso Angel was a very hard card to cut originally. My group will be happy to see her back in rotation.
Siege Rhino --> Warden of the First Tree
Warden is easier to cast and goes into more decks than Rhino, but doesn't really see that much play here. I think Siege Rhino will ultimately be a more popular card for us and see more play despite it's more prohibitive casting cost.
And that's it for this round of swaps. If you read all the way through that, I really appreciate it and hope you leave some feedback. Cheers and happy cubing!
I like the majority of those changes. I'm still a fan of Fire Imp, but you are right that it doesn't support an archetype. I prefer Warden because it can slot in more decks while also supporting green aggro decks.
Thanks for the reply, rant. As more and more new cards are introduced to the world, I'm having to let go of some of my old man favorites in favor of the more exciting new stuff. Cutting something like Fire Imp, which has literally be in the cube since it's inception way back in 2007 (wow, 10 years ago), is a tough one.
Warden was often a late pick here. Green based aggro doesn't come together often and more often than not, it's Gruul, so Warden didn't really fit there either. It's a great card, for sure, but my group just wasn't playing it. Siege Rhino, however, was popular while it was in the list and I feel like it'll ultimately see more play in that slot than the Warden did.
IN --> OUT
Mardu Woe-Reaper --> Knight of Meadowgrain
Monastery Mentor --> Spirit of the Labyrinth
Mardu Strike Leader --> Grim Haruspex
Brutal Hordechief --> Shadowborn Demon
Ugin, the Spirit Dragon --> Mortarpod
Soulfire Grand Master --> Lightning Angel
Alesha, Who Smiles at Death --> Crackling Doom
Yasova Dragonclaw --> Rattleclaw Mystic
Tasigur, the Golden Fang --> Sultai Charm
I'm still not 100% sold on replacing some a couple of these tri color cards, namely Lightning Angel and Rattleclaw Mystic. Should DTK give us even more solid tri color options, then I may rethink the organization here and move these tribrids to their respective monocolor section (as we did with Brutal Hordechief). This would also let me add in Warden of the First Tree, which I fee like I'm doing myself a disservice by not including right now.
In addition to those changes, we also made these few minor changes that weren't FRF related.
Riftwing Cloudskate --> Waterfront Bouncer
I think Cloudskate will see more play. My group just aren't fans of the bouncer.
Treasure Cruise --> Shelldock Isle
We mostly just wanted to see what all the fuss is about. How much Delve is too much Delve?
Feldon of the Third Path --> Molten Rain
Lots of solid reviews for this dude on here. I don't really support the artifact deck among Grixis colors, but I don't think this guy really needs that in order to be relevant.
Venser, the Sojourner --> Momentary Blink
Kind of like for like here. We like the blink deck and Venser is honestly a better enabler in that deck than Blink itself.
And while we're at it, in addition to aaallll of those changes, we're also thinking of making the following changes, but I'd like to get some feedback before we pull the trigger.
Kor Sanctifiers --> Mikaeus, the Lunarch
Seal of Cleansing --> Entreat the Angels
Ancestral Vision --> Gilded Drake
Tolarian Academy --> Stifle
Dark Ritual --> Sinkhole
Monastery Swiftspear --> Reckless Reveler
Eidolon of the Great Revel --> Altac Bloodseeker
Smash to Smithereens --> Keldon Vandals
Viridian Shaman --> Somberwald Sage
Avenger of Zendikar --> Pelakka Wurm
Gaea's Cradle --> Birthing Pod
Tattermunge Maniac --> Kessig Wolf Run
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
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In the proposed changes, I'd keep Sinkhole because it's so undercosted and brutal but Dark Ritual is a fantastic add (and they go together: T1: Dark Ritual -> Sinkhole + Gravecrawler).
At 450, I run both Smash and the Vandals, so I'd look for another cut or not add Eidolon.
I was never crazy about Sancifiers but at this size it might be necessary.
Cheers,
rant
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I agree on Bouncer, but my crew just doesn't play that card. Dedicated reanimator in general actually doesn't come up all that often. I think Cloudskate will see more time in decks than Bouncer ever has.
Sinkhole is another one that, for whatever reason, just doesn't get played. I like it, but I gravitate toward black strategies (Sui Aggro, Pox, etc) and Sinkhole is good in those decks. The rest of my group wants to play black in more control decks, so Sinkhole often gets left in the sideboard if I'm not the one drafting it. The OP is up to date. Is there another cut you'd recommend to get Ritual back in, but keep Sinkhole in the mix?
I kind of want to test Eidolon for a bit, but just not adding him in favor of the extra artifact hate might be the right option.
What sparked this change is going through my list compared to smaller lists like yours and wtwlf's and realizing that my artifact/enchantment hate was quite a bit lower than expected. I looked at recent changes and noticed that I've made a habit of looking to these "weaker" artifact/enchantment hate cards as cut targets for new cards. So I'm thinking that, in order to have enough answers available to annoying things like Swords, Moat, and Shackles, I have to run something a little less flashy like Kor Sanctifiers.
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I'd cut Liliana Vess or Sheoldred to keep Sinkhole, most likely Liliana. I think she's gotten way outclassed.
Cheers,
rant
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WGURBLands!WGURB
WGUInfectWGU
Legacy Lands Primer
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You are correct. Thanks for the heads up.
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IN --> OUT
Dragon Hunter --> Cloistered Youth
Hidden Dragonslayer --> Ajani, Caller of the Pride
Stratus Dancer --> Aether Adept
Silumgar Assassin --> Reassembling Skeleton
Ire Shaman --> Prophetic Flamespeaker
Zurgo Bellstriker --> Chandra's Phoenix
Ainok Survivalist --> Viridian Shaman
Den Protector --> Mayor of Avabruck
Dragonlord Silumgar --> Duskmantle Seer
Kolaghan's Command --> Falkenrath Aristocrat
Willbender --> Psionic Blast
Bane of the Living --> Brutal Hordechief
Sarkhan Unbroken --> Flex Section
Brutal Hordechief --> Flex Section
Rattleclaw Mystic --> Flex Section
Lightning Angel --> Flex Section
Warden of the First Tree --> Flex Section
On top of the six morphs added in with the DTK update, we also decided to bring back Willbender and Bane of the Living to see how they fair among more face down creatures. We also decided to stop going back and forth on where these tribrid cards should be organized. One per section was just not enough for some of the wedge combos and in at least one case, even two per section wasn't enough. So we just said '**** it' and simply went back to 555 which is where we were for a very long time anyway. Now I don't feel like I'm limiting myself based on numbers and I can run the cards I want to run without worrying about organization. This also let me add in Rattleclaw Mystic as an additional morph.
On top of those changes, we also made this giant round of updates this weekend just to change things up a bit.
Seeker of the Way --> Leonin Relic-Warder
Rout --> Ajani Steadfast
Ojutai Exemplars --> Elspeth Tirel
Secure the Wastes --> Eternal Dragon
Personal Tutor --> Jace, Memory Adept
Repeal --> Time Spiral
Tezzeret the Seeker --> Jace, Architect of Thought
Tradewind Rider --> Dismiss
Academy Ruins --> Standstill
Despise --> Smallpox
The Abyss --> Liliana Vess
Goblin Welder --> Bonfire of the Damned
Daretti, Scrap Savant --> Fireblast
Searing Blaze --> Forked Bolt
Eidolon of the Great Revel --> Pillage
Sylvan Tutor --> Strangleroot Geist
Worldly Tutor --> Call of the Herd
Polukranos, World Eater --> Ohran Viper
Surrak, the Hunt Caller --> Troll Ascetic
Farseek --> Twinblade Slasher
Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas --> Far//Away
Knight of the Reliquary --> Voice of Resurgence
Yavimaya Coast --> Flooded Grove
Shivan Reef --> Cascade Bluffs
Fire // Ice --> Electrolyze
Metalworker --> Soul of New Phyrexia
Vivid Meadow --> Perilous Myr
Vivid Creek --> Bottle Gnomes
Vivid Marsh --> Chimeric Idol
Vivid Crag --> Loxodon Warhammer
Vivid Grove --> Oblivion Stone
The white changes should come as no shock. I've seen a lot of talk about the "spells matter" archetype and I want to push it a little harder that I already am. I also felt that another Wrath effect was needed and Rout was next on the list for that function for me.
Personal Tutor (as well as the two green tutors) are directly related to wtwlf's recent rise to 540. He's obviously a fan of the tutors and I want to see how well they do for us. I honestly kind of wonder why we weren't already running these. Tutors are awesome. We also came to a decision to include support for the artifact deck, which is something I've never done before. I have no idea how it will perform with my group, if they'll like it when it does come together, or if it's even an archetype they'll all be interested in at all. Time will tell, but it's something new and different for us and I'm excited to try it out. Tradewind is just a sort of pet nostalgia card for me, so I wanted to give it a shot.
As big of a fan of Pox and black based control decks as I am, I have no idea why I wasn't already running The Abyss. GTFO, Liliana Vess.
The red updates are mostly in line with the artifact deck, but I did want to give Searing Blaze and Eidolon of the Great Revel a shot. That's mostly based on the high praise these cards get from the Third Power guys. I've never played either in cube, so I wanted to see for myself.
I cut Polukranos and, after seeing how he's currently tearing it up in Standard, I kind of missed him. So back in he goes as well as a test run for Surrak who seems to be getting mixed reviews. He's another card I want to try for myself.
The multicolor changes are pretty boring. We decided to drop the filter lands in UG and UR in favor of pain lands. I still like the filters in the color pairs that can be tough on CC costs, but these two don't really fall into that category.
And finally, we added the five Vivids. This is another pretty much copy from wtwlf's update. With the extra multicolor cards going in since Khans was released, it makes sense to find room for more fixing. I actually like the tri lands more than the Vivids, but I like only taking up five slots instead of ten a lot more.
The OP and CubeTutor are both up to date. Give it a look (and a draft). I'd love to see what someone other than me can come up with when trying to force spells matter or artifact.dek.
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IN --> OUT
Parallax Wave --> Faith's Fetters
Entreat the Angels --> Precinct Captain
Parallax Wave offers a similar removal effect as Fetters, but it slots better into the aggro decks. Entreat is a tool for white control and ramp decks. Captain is good, but not need given the current aggro creature count in white.
Thirst for Knowledge --> Into the Roil
Trinket Mage --> Serendib Efreet
This is just a couple more tools to try to help push the artifact deck and make it a thing. So far my group has only had the respective cards in generic control decks. I hope adding these types of cards helps to turn it into an actual draftable archetype.
Aether Adept --> Willbender
Dungeon Geists --> Tradewind Rider
Master of Waves --> Ancestral Vision
These three additions are an attempt to make devotion a thing in blue. Honestly, I'm a little sad to see Tradewind go so early as it's a bit of a pet card. I think it's for the best, though. I hope this is an archetype that happens and we get to see some sweet interactions with Master of Waves.
Dauthi Horror --> Guul Draz Assassin
Sidisi, Undead Vizier --> Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief
Smallpox --> Bane of the Living
Reassembling Skeleton --> Curse of Shallow Graves
Assassin proved to be slow and cumbersome. It was typically a 23rd card. Horror will help to push black aggro a little more. Sidisi over Drana seems obvious. I'll admit that I'll miss Drana, though. I like her a lot. Smallpox and Skeleton are going back in to help out the Pox/Stax deck. As a bonus, Skeleton also plays well with Sidisi. I chose to cut Bane of the Living because the morph package hasn't really paid off and I'd rather have the archetype support. Curse was good, but not amazing. It requires some set up and it doesn't do anything on an empty board.
Strangleroot Geist --> Farseek
Boon Satyr --> Phantom Centaur
Not much to see in these changes. I'm just pushing green aggro a bit more. I want so bad for Farseek to be a Sylvan Scrying to puts the land into play. It got the axe because there were too many times that I wanted to be able to grab a Forest and couldn't. Phantom Centaur can be powerful, but it's the most midrange-y of midrange-y cards.
Prismatic Lens --> Zuran Orb
Zuran Orb basically never saw play. Ever. Lens helps to push the artifact deck and replaces Farseek as a ramp card.
Sarkhan Vol --> Domri Rade
I like Domri more than most, but I want to give Sarkhan another shot in an attempt to help out green as an aggro option. He didn't see much play when he was in before, but I'm hoping that will change this time around.
Sorin, Solemn Visitor --> Utter End
Utter End isn't really needed as an effect. Sorin is just a solid 'walker. He'll slot into any Orzhov deck and he'll help out the tokens deck tremendously.
Dimir Signet --> Shadowmage Infiltrator
Izzet Signet --> Fire // Ice
Both of these go in to help out the artifact deck. I thought about the UB Talisman instead, but I wanted to be consistent.
Sagu Mauler --> Simic Sky Swallower
We're giving the Mauler a run for a while over Sky Swallower. I hope it's at least just as good and I don't miss the flying.
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Love this change. I was a big fan of Tradewind back in the day but his time has come and gone. Dungeon Geists is a good man.
I like this one too. Lens gets overlooked a lot but it has one (pretty important) job and does it well.
I doubt you will. Mauler is a very solid man. You lose flying, sure, but you start hitting hard a few turns earlier and that can easily make up for the loss of evasion. Good change, IMO.
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Thanks for the responses, guys!
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Magic: Origins Update
Kytheon, Hero of Akros ---> Seeker of the Way
Relic Seeker ---> Ojutai Exemplars
Harbinger of the Tides ---> Aether Adept
Jace, Vryn's Prodigy ---> Trinket Mage
Whirler Rogue ---> Clever Impersonator
Despoiler of Souls ---> Nezumi Graverobber
Liliana, Heretical Healer ---> Vampire Hexmage
Priest of the Blood Rite ---> Ob Nixilis of the Black Oath
Languish ---> Consuming Vapors
Goblin Glory Chaser ---> Gore-House Chainwalker
Molten Vortex ---> Lightning Strike
Pia and Kiran Nalaar ---> Chandra Nalaar
Evolutionary Leap ---> Fastbond
Managorger Hydra ---> River Boa
Nissa, Vastwood Seer ---> Titania, Protector of Argoth
Sword of the Animist ---> Lightning Greaves
Hangarback Walker ---> Palladium Myr
Battle for Zendikar Update
Gideon, Ally of Zendikar ---> Kor Sanctifiers
Scatter to the Winds ---> Repeal
Drana, Liberator of Malakir ---> Sidisi, Undead Vizier
Ruinous Path ---> Smallpox
Greenwarden of Murasa ---> Garruk, Primal Hunter
Woodland Wanderer ---> Surrak, the Hunt Caller
Scythe Leopard ---> Boon Satyr
Hedron Archive ---> Guardian Idol
Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger ---> Molten-Tail Masticore
Lumbering Falls ---> Yavimaya Coast
Shambling Vent ---> Fetid Heath
Kiora, Master of the Depths ---> Sagu Mauler
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
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MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
Follow me. I tweet.
Cheers,
rant
My Cube
CubeCobra: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/5f5d0310ed602310515d4c32
Cube Tutor: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1963
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
Follow me. I tweet.
Cheers,
rant
My Cube
CubeCobra: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/5f5d0310ed602310515d4c32
Cube Tutor: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1963
IN --> OUT
Adorned Pouncer --> Trueheart Duelist
Duelist has not been impressive as a two drop creature. It feels very out of its element by being an aggressively costed creature that doesn't fit into aggressive decks. The blocking multiple creatures is irrelevant on a creature that doesn't want to be blocking. Pouncer is the opposite of this. It's a creature that wants to attack and attack hard. The Eternalize is a little pricey, but's something nice to be able to do with your mana if the game somehow goes long on your aggro deck. Also, a 4/4 double striker might just be what your aggro deck needs to close out that long winded game.
Angel of Condemnation --> Gisela, the Broken Blade
I really like Gisela in this slot, but she's a little boring. She does a great job at what she does, but what she does is nothing fancy. Angel of Condemnation, however, offers up a ton of utility and combo potential. Plus my group really likes blink strategies. I don't think AoC will be a permanent staple inclusion, but I do think she'll be a fun card to build decks with while she's in the cube. She may prove to be a little too low impact, in which case, Gisela would just slot back in.
Nimble Obstructionist --> Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
Kira has been a personal favorite of mine in cube for years now. She's great in the UX tempo decks that I love and is just a general pain in the ass. I like this swap because Nimble Obstructionist will also fit into those same tempo decks at the same spot on the curve, but won't require such a heavy blue commitment and won't be limited to those tempo lists like Kira typically is.
Supreme Will --> Into the Roil
This was a fairly easy swap. Into the Roil is a fine filler card and Supreme Will will also be a fine filler card. The difference is one's been in and out of the cube for years and one is new. I am excited to get some reps in with this, though. It tested ok and I think it'll be nice to have the versatility that it offers.
Bontu's Last Reckoning --> Malicious Affliction
Getting full value out of a morbid trigger has proven to be more than a little difficult in cube. I think Malicious Affliction is a solid card and worth inclusion in a 540 list, but I like this swap because Bontu's Last Reckoning will do a similar job better and not require any hoop jumping to make it happen. So far in testing, BLR has played very well with the land exert not being near as detrimental as I thought it might be. The bottom line here is that three mana Wraths are really good.
Abrade --> Collective Defiance
This is basically cutting one utility modal spell for another, but I do think Abrade is a better, more versatile card. I don't like that it can't hit players, but for a modal spell at two mana, I think that's asking a bit much. There are plenty of X/3 creatures and artifacts in cube that need to be dealt with and this card does that handily. Collective Defiance has been decent, but the RR cost, typically being cast for four instead of three, and almost never using the Windfall mode tells me it's just not efficient enough for what I want modal spells to be doing in cube. Abrade is a welcome addition.
Burning-Fist Minotaur --> Aether Chaser
The Minotaur isn't exciting, but I like him more than Aether Chaser. They have similar bodies, but the ability to hit for four first strike damage is better than the extra 1/1 Servo the Chaser gives me. The threat of activation on this guy will likely result in more damage getting through in the long run. Really, this is just another interesting red aggro dork on the way to the next one.
Ramunap Excavator --> Duskwatch Recruiter
Green cuts are getting tough. I'm choosing to cut Recruiter here because it's good, but not great. Maybe it's better than Ronas, but we've just not had enough play time with Ronas yet to make that call. I really wanted Recruiter to be a little card advantage engine, but he often flips at inopportune times and is just kind of inconvenient.
The Locust God --> Ral Zarek
I'm not sure that this god is actually good enough for cube, but I do want to get more reps in with him. I don't mind cutting Ral Zarek here because Izzet is chock full of solid planeswalkers and, simply put, Ral's been in the longest. We usually don't get to draft more than once per month and I'd rather keep Saheeli around because she's not been in for very long and she's been pretty solid so far. Ral is good, but expendable, especially to try out something new. On paper, The Locust Good looks like a great top end for Izzet decks. It does a lot of things. It is, however, a six mana 4/4 which leaves a little to be desired. I do think it's worth some extra time in cube, though, especially at 540 with five Izzet slots available.
The Scarab God --> Shadowmage Infiltrator
I think Finkel's time has come. The more like for like swap here would definitely be Dragonlord Silumgar, but my group are pretty big fans of the dragon and have expressed that they'd prefer the dragon to the god. I think The Scarab God has a ton of potential, though, and I really want to give him some extended time in the cube. I'm cutting Shadowmage Infiltrator because the Dimir decks already have plenty of options at the three drop spot, but the five drop spot isn't near as populated.
Nicol Bolas, God-Pharaoh --> Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
This is as like for like as swaps can get. I like both of these versions of Bolas quite a bit. They're both really powerful and incredibly impactful on the game. I think the original will ultimately prove to be more powerful, but I am excited to get some reps in with the new version. He has a cheaper cost and doesn't require as much commitment to black. I don't truly believe those things will have much impact on his value and playability, but they will definitely have some. Also, it's just nice to play with new shiny cards, so I think God-Pharaoh deserves at least some spotlight time based on that alone.
Simultaneous Changes
Thing in the Ice --> Stratus Dancer
This removes a predictable morph that's not very popular for something new to build around that has a really fun effect on game play.
Torrential Gearhulk --> Riftwing Cloudskate
I want to try out Gearhulk to see how it plays. I see it in a lot of lists and hear good things about it. It's also gotten a lot more support in recent sets. Cloudskate has been in and out a few times over the years. It's a solid card, but isn't necessary to support anything specific.
Nezumi Graverobber --> Vampire Lacerator
We have plenty of black one drops now. I kind of miss having Graverobber around. He's a solid inclusion for graveyard hate and a monster when he flips.
Pia Nalaar --> Fire Imp
This is a similar swap to Gearhulk. I'm interested in seeing how Pia plays. Fire Imp, like Cloudskate, is fine, but not necessary to support any archetypes. Pia will be decent in aggro and decent in artifact decks. Also, Fire Imp really just isn't that popular around here anymore and I've had it stranded in my hand against a creatureless board on more than one occasion.
Channel --> Search for Tomorrow
Considering that the cube now has several colorless monsters as options, I thought it would be a fine time to try out Channel again. We had it in once before and it really didn't perform well. Not because it wasn't powerful, but mostly because it seemed like my group just wasn't interested in doing that sort of thing at the time. We'll see how it goes this time. I like to change things up a bit every now and then.
Life from the Loam --> Song of the Dryads
Titania, Protector of Argoth --> Regal Behemoth
The Gitrog Monster --> Garruk, Apex Predator
I'm lumping these three changes together because it's an attempt to try to support the lands matter deck now that we also get Ramunap Excavator. Titania played well before, but just didn't have a real home. Life from the Loam was in for a long time and often went late because my players just weren't interested in it. It just didn't feel synergistic enough with what most decks were trying to do. The Gitrog Monster is something I hope will pull this deck together. Garruk has been solid as a seven mana ramp target for those decks, but isn't exactly a staple. I have five slots for my guilds, so I don't feel like I'm excluding anything important to make room for the hypno-toad here. I'm also already running Knight of the Reliquary in Selesnya, so hopefully this deck can actually come together. Worst case, they all go back into the binder until we get another piece of the lands matter puzzle.
Desolation Angel --> Kaya, Ghost Assassin
This is just bringing back an old favorite in place of a planeswalker that hasn't really performed as well as I thought it would. Kaya is fine, but not great and Deso Angel was a very hard card to cut originally. My group will be happy to see her back in rotation.
Siege Rhino --> Warden of the First Tree
Warden is easier to cast and goes into more decks than Rhino, but doesn't really see that much play here. I think Siege Rhino will ultimately be a more popular card for us and see more play despite it's more prohibitive casting cost.
And that's it for this round of swaps. If you read all the way through that, I really appreciate it and hope you leave some feedback. Cheers and happy cubing!
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Warden was often a late pick here. Green based aggro doesn't come together often and more often than not, it's Gruul, so Warden didn't really fit there either. It's a great card, for sure, but my group just wasn't playing it. Siege Rhino, however, was popular while it was in the list and I feel like it'll ultimately see more play in that slot than the Warden did.
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