I guess that's the answer everyone gives when they see people cutting cards they like. Sorry to burst your bubble, but it's just not good in my cube. It's not a bad card; it doesn't mean it's gone forever. It didn't hold its weight so it's been removed for Timetwister.
I guess that's the answer everyone gives when they see people cutting cards they like. Sorry to burst your bubble, but it's just not good in my cube. It's not a bad card; it doesn't mean it's gone forever. It didn't hold its weight so it's been removed for Timetwister.
This is an exercise to show you that you can cut whatever you want. Only you know what's good for your cube. Right?
So when you show up in other peoples threads and say stuff like this:
All this talk about cutting Mirari's Wake is seriously madness! Sometimes I think this is the smartest forum on the internet, and other times it's like cube meets GameFAQs.
Keep this in mind.
You're missing a ton of cards I think it would be absolutely INSANE not to cube with. And now you're cutting another one. The point is, you can't dish it out in other threads, and then get butt-hurt when we call you on it here.
The key of making Gifts broken is to have at least one card that you can tutor for that has some added value in your graveyard / can bring back cards in your yard.
Now you get 2 of the best 3 cards in your deck for only 4 mana, which is way better than what you usually get out of a FoF.
Ya, it's really not hard to break this card at all.
I see nothing in your mission statement that conflicts with Gifts Ungiven. In fact, it seems like exactly the kind of card that will shine in your "skill-intensive" cube.
If your playgroup doesn't like it, that's fine. And that's a legitimate reason to cut it.
However... are you just going to ignore all of my previous comments?
How come you can bash the whole forum because someone suggested cutting Wake, and then when we defend one of your cuts here, you take it all personally and say it's the best thing for your group, because nobody plays it?
What about the player's experience with Wake in their cubes? Is that irrelevant?
I see nothing in your mission statement that conflicts with Gifts Ungiven. In fact, it seems like exactly the kind of card that will shine in your "skill-intensive" cube.
If your playgroup doesn't like it, that's fine. And that's a legitimate reason to cut it.
However... are you just going to ignore all of my previous comments?
How come you can bash the whole forum because someone suggested cutting Wake, and then when we defend one of your cuts here, you take it all personally and say it's the best thing for your group, because nobody plays it?
What about the player's experience with Wake in their cubes? Is that irrelevant?
You said there are ways to break Gifts, and I think it's a fairly costed draw spell that sits in sideboards or is barely as good as Thirst for Knowledge most of the time. I don't want to do broken things; I want a balanced and skill-intensive limited environment. You also have a powered cube and you often evaluate cards as though we're playing the same format. If you come into my thread and evaluate cards, you better know we're playing with SBs, and without power. If that changes how you evaluate something, then be aware of it before you make your judgement.
Please see the card evaluation thread for my apology for the Gamefaqs comment as well as why I get frustrated here often.
My cube started out unpowered with Gifts Ungiven and then went to powered with Gifts Ungiven and it has played exactly the same in both formats. I don't think playing an unpowered cube affects the way Gifts performs at all. It's been consistently great here.
i honestly don't understand how gifts could be bad. i don't see how the environment could affect it, unless you're playing some weird house rules or something. it tutors up 4 cards from your library, you get to keep 2, 2 go in your graveyard. there's so many ways to take advantage of that effect: build your deck so that you always get what you want, build your deck so you can use the graveyard, or just tutor for 3 or 4 cards that do what you need to do to win, and win. whether you have power or not doesn't make any difference, the card does the same thing.
When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
i honestly don't understand how gifts could be bad. i don't see how the environment could affect it, unless you're playing some weird house rules or something. it tutors up 4 cards from your library, you get to keep 2, 2 go in your graveyard. there's so many ways to take advantage of that effect: build your deck so that you always get what you want, build your deck so you can use the graveyard, or just tutor for 3 or 4 cards that do what you need to do to win, and win. whether you have power or not doesn't make any difference, the card does the same thing.
It's not a bad card. There have been games it's been absolutely unreal, and others where it just binned two good cards and gave you two okay cards, and lately there have been situations like the other night when none of the blue decks want to run it.
I want to run Timetwister, but I have to take out another blue spell which draws cards to add it. If the group hates 'Twister, I'll happily add gifts back. Heck, there are times I cut cards and I miss them and add them back shortly after. Two years ago I would have called you crazy if you asked me to cut Gifts, but for now I am deciding to test other options.
I want a balanced and skill-intensive limited environment
Balanced and skill-intensive is exactly how I'd describe Gifts Ungiven, for what it's worth.
Kojiro, the problem wasn't that you're cutting Gifts. We all have good cards that end up getting cut. The problem was the fact that you just blasted the entire forum in another thread for simply suggesting that Mirari's Wake is an option for a cut. You basically called us all know-nothing "GameFAQ"-esque forum contributors. Then you come over here and cut a card that's largely recognized as a much better card than Wake from your cube, and you expect everybody to think that it's the right move? Come on man. You need to be on one side or the other. If you can't take the criticism, don't dish it out.
Balanced and skill-intensive is exactly how I'd describe Gifts Ungiven, for what it's worth.
Kojiro, the problem wasn't that you're cutting Gifts. We all have good cards that end up getting cut. The problem was the fact that you just blasted the entire forum in another thread for simply suggesting that Mirari's Wake is an option for a cut. You basically called us all know-nothing "GameFAQ"-esque forum contributors. Then you come over here and cut a card that's largely recognized as a much better card than Wake from your cube, and you expect everybody to think that it's the right move? Come on man. You need to be on one side or the other. If you can't take the criticism, don't dish it out.
If my apology means so little to you that you will continue to shove this in my face after every post I make, then I'm simply not going to respond to anything you have to say. I said I am sorry for the comment. I can't unsay what I said. I was cranky and made a crack and now I want to move on with life. Please just back off and go take a walk. You're being particularly obnoxious and confrontational and I don't need the extra stress.
If cutting Gifts is already your final decision, there is no need for a detailed response, but I think everybody would support the removal of Jace's Ingenuity instead of Gifts Ungiven.
Not me!
I'm not the biggest fan of Gifts either as I've found you have to go rather far out of your way to make it significantly better than Inspiration. It's not the worst card in the world, but if I don't have cards to abuse in conjunction with Gifts I would rather have the Ingenuity almost every time.
Just another perspective on the issue since it seems like general theme on this thread is that it's blasphemy to badmouth Gifts in cube.
The only thing you need to do to make it better than Inspiration is pick good cards. If you don't have 4 good cards left in your library, then I suppose it's bad. Luckily for us, we use good cards.
it's not blasphemy so much as confusing. gifts costs less than ingenuity and is splashable but you have so much more control. it shouldn't be hard to build your deck to take advantage of it, it's not even really a build around card.
When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
What I like about it, is that it grabs the types of cards you're looking for. Even without targets you want in your 'yard, you can select what type of stuff you're looking for. Need 4 answers? 4 mana sources? 4 threats? Just grab the types of cards you're looking for and you're guaranteed to draw those types of cards. I find it so much more powerful than just simple card draw, because you can orchestrate exactly what you want.
Not to mention all the graveyard brokenness that it enables.
Hey look, a post that won't mention Gifts Ungiven!
Kojiro, what's your experience been with Sun Ce, Young Conquerer? I picked one up on the cheap for a since-failed EDH deck, and now he's homeless. A 3/3 nigh-unblockable Man O'War sounds great, but 5 mana does not. How's he been for you?
Gifts is one of those cards that can suffer in comparison to constructed, as you may not be certain of a broken "Gifts package". At worst, however, you get the 3rd and 4th best cards in your deck, and at best it can set up recursion engines. I can think of very few decks I might build in my cube that have access to U that wouldn't run gifts.
Gifts and Fact or Fiction are also of some entertainment value in multiplayer. The opponent you choose often takes offence, as it is assumed you pick the person most likely to make a wrong choice. Leads to some delightful trash talk.
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
I also agree that Jace's Ingenuity should be cut over Gifts. It's my opinion that Gifts is probably stronger. It's certain that Gifts is cheaper and more splashable. Furthermore, it provides more interesting gameplay -- it gives both players more opportunities to screw up. Ingenuity is a strong card but it's just... boring.
Hey look, a post that won't mention Gifts Ungiven!
Kojiro, what's your experience been with Sun Ce, Young Conquerer? I picked one up on the cheap for a since-failed EDH deck, and now he's homeless. A 3/3 nigh-unblockable Man O'War sounds great, but 5 mana does not. How's he been for you?
He's been great! I am of the opinion that you can't have too many Man-o'-War effects. He'ls a great curve topper, and wears equipment better than most creatures. Definitely give him a try.
As for the Gifts debate, I hear what all of the pros are for gifts, and believe me, I have thought through them. Fact is, I need to try out Timetwister, and Jace's Inginuity (awesome so far!), and I have to remove other blue cards to do so. One of the sacrifices I made when choosing to include blue aggro as a strategy was making the blue spells section extremely cutthroat for slots.
Seeing as I've been cubing with Gifts for 3+ years now, I am comfortable putting it on the bench to get a feel for different card draw. It might not make sense to you to cut a card you feel is so broken, but from my perspective I am cutting a card that has been fairly mediocre lately and adding a friggin' draw-7 for 3 mana! I think the power of my cube went up and not down with the change. I also do not feel bad about removing gifts and keeping Inginuity. They're very different cards with very different functions.
If you feel like it makes your cube better and it's what your crew wants, then by all means, that's what you should do. I personally think Gifts is twice the card Ingenuity is, but that's my opinion.
If you feel like it makes your cube better and it's what your crew wants, then by all means, that's what you should do. I personally think Gifts is twice the card Ingenuity is, but that's my opinion.
In all honesty I don't know if it will make my cube better. From my perspective I couldn't cut a worse draw spell to add a draw 7; I had to cut the better card. It's about keeping the balance and not letting blue get out of control.
I also just want to comment that I cannot imagine a situation where Gifts would not be utterly unreal in a powered cube. As card quality goes up, so goes up the value of gifts. I don't believe Timetwister can be run in conjunction with Gifts Ungiven in my cube as I believe blue would borderline on being too good. Do other people do this, or am I nuts?
I think maybe you're nuts because it honestly hasn't been better than it was prior to adding power. It's not broken, it's just really good. Blue is going to be the most powerful color no matter what you do. That's just the nature of the beast. Purposely trying to dumb it down by leaving cards in that you know to be less powerful doesn't seem like a good idea to me.
That would be my guess.
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This is an exercise to show you that you can cut whatever you want. Only you know what's good for your cube. Right?
So when you show up in other peoples threads and say stuff like this:
Keep this in mind.
You're missing a ton of cards I think it would be absolutely INSANE not to cube with. And now you're cutting another one. The point is, you can't dish it out in other threads, and then get butt-hurt when we call you on it here.
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Ya, it's really not hard to break this card at all.
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I see nothing in your mission statement that conflicts with Gifts Ungiven. In fact, it seems like exactly the kind of card that will shine in your "skill-intensive" cube.
If your playgroup doesn't like it, that's fine. And that's a legitimate reason to cut it.
However... are you just going to ignore all of my previous comments?
How come you can bash the whole forum because someone suggested cutting Wake, and then when we defend one of your cuts here, you take it all personally and say it's the best thing for your group, because nobody plays it?
What about the player's experience with Wake in their cubes? Is that irrelevant?
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I want to run Timetwister, but I have to take out another blue spell which draws cards to add it. If the group hates 'Twister, I'll happily add gifts back. Heck, there are times I cut cards and I miss them and add them back shortly after. Two years ago I would have called you crazy if you asked me to cut Gifts, but for now I am deciding to test other options.
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Balanced and skill-intensive is exactly how I'd describe Gifts Ungiven, for what it's worth.
Kojiro, the problem wasn't that you're cutting Gifts. We all have good cards that end up getting cut. The problem was the fact that you just blasted the entire forum in another thread for simply suggesting that Mirari's Wake is an option for a cut. You basically called us all know-nothing "GameFAQ"-esque forum contributors. Then you come over here and cut a card that's largely recognized as a much better card than Wake from your cube, and you expect everybody to think that it's the right move? Come on man. You need to be on one side or the other. If you can't take the criticism, don't dish it out.
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I for one would support this statement.
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Not me!
I'm not the biggest fan of Gifts either as I've found you have to go rather far out of your way to make it significantly better than Inspiration. It's not the worst card in the world, but if I don't have cards to abuse in conjunction with Gifts I would rather have the Ingenuity almost every time.
Just another perspective on the issue since it seems like general theme on this thread is that it's blasphemy to badmouth Gifts in cube.
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Not to mention all the graveyard brokenness that it enables.
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Kojiro, what's your experience been with Sun Ce, Young Conquerer? I picked one up on the cheap for a since-failed EDH deck, and now he's homeless. A 3/3 nigh-unblockable Man O'War sounds great, but 5 mana does not. How's he been for you?
Gifts is one of those cards that can suffer in comparison to constructed, as you may not be certain of a broken "Gifts package". At worst, however, you get the 3rd and 4th best cards in your deck, and at best it can set up recursion engines. I can think of very few decks I might build in my cube that have access to U that wouldn't run gifts.
Gifts and Fact or Fiction are also of some entertainment value in multiplayer. The opponent you choose often takes offence, as it is assumed you pick the person most likely to make a wrong choice. Leads to some delightful trash talk.
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"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
I also agree that Jace's Ingenuity should be cut over Gifts. It's my opinion that Gifts is probably stronger. It's certain that Gifts is cheaper and more splashable. Furthermore, it provides more interesting gameplay -- it gives both players more opportunities to screw up. Ingenuity is a strong card but it's just... boring.
He's been great! I am of the opinion that you can't have too many Man-o'-War effects. He'ls a great curve topper, and wears equipment better than most creatures. Definitely give him a try.
As for the Gifts debate, I hear what all of the pros are for gifts, and believe me, I have thought through them. Fact is, I need to try out Timetwister, and Jace's Inginuity (awesome so far!), and I have to remove other blue cards to do so. One of the sacrifices I made when choosing to include blue aggro as a strategy was making the blue spells section extremely cutthroat for slots.
Seeing as I've been cubing with Gifts for 3+ years now, I am comfortable putting it on the bench to get a feel for different card draw. It might not make sense to you to cut a card you feel is so broken, but from my perspective I am cutting a card that has been fairly mediocre lately and adding a friggin' draw-7 for 3 mana! I think the power of my cube went up and not down with the change. I also do not feel bad about removing gifts and keeping Inginuity. They're very different cards with very different functions.
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I also just want to comment that I cannot imagine a situation where Gifts would not be utterly unreal in a powered cube. As card quality goes up, so goes up the value of gifts. I don't believe Timetwister can be run in conjunction with Gifts Ungiven in my cube as I believe blue would borderline on being too good. Do other people do this, or am I nuts?
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