We tend to use a dice to sit on top of undrafted packs. But also if someone is taking a while to pick for some reason, we will put the packs in order in front of them. This hasn't caused much issue. It also puts the blame on one person so we can call them out about being slow or absent.
People forget that RTFC is the first rule in Magic.
Among my friends, I am well known for replying "It's all on the card." to most of their card text related questions. Apparently, they find that highly annoying ("Why can't you just answer my question? I wouldn't have asked if the card text was clear!"), but most of those questions are completely unnecessary. Half the questions are about abilities that have reminder text on the card! I guess using a slightly smaller font and italics does indeed make a sentence invisible...
We tend to use a dice to sit on top of undrafted packs. But also if someone is taking a while to pick for some reason, we will put the packs in order in front of them. This hasn't caused much issue. It also puts the blame on one person so we can call them out about being slow or absent.
We are using dice on the booster packs as well. And it is common practice to mock the player who has 3+ booster packs waiting in line in front of them.
I found your thread after stumbling on the pimp cube cards thread, and seeing your post about scanning everything. Absolutely gorgeous. My friend has a "powered" cube, but the actual power is proxied. Some of the duals are legitimate, but for the most part they're proxies. That being said, seeing actual power is amazing. The altered duals and fetches look great as well. I like how the text boxes for them have sharp, clean edges. Truly something to be proud of. I couldn't imagine owning something worth that much. And if I did, it would probably sit somewhere locked up in a corner.
I found your thread after stumbling on the pimp cube cards thread, and seeing your post about scanning everything. Absolutely gorgeous. My friend has a "powered" cube, but the actual power is proxied. Some of the duals are legitimate, but for the most part they're proxies. That being said, seeing actual power is amazing. The altered duals and fetches look great as well. I like how the text boxes for them have sharp, clean edges. Truly something to be proud of. I couldn't imagine owning something worth that much. And if I did, it would probably sit somewhere locked up in a corner.
Hey Tartaras I appreciate the kind words. I'm really glad I did the whole pimping thing earlier, because now there's absolutely no way I could afford it
People forget that RTFC is the first rule in Magic.
Among my friends, I am well known for replying "It's all on the card." to most of their card text related questions. Apparently, they find that highly annoying ("Why can't you just answer my question? I wouldn't have asked if the card text was clear!"), but most of those questions are completely unnecessary. Half the questions are about abilities that have reminder text on the card! I guess using a slightly smaller font and italics does indeed make a sentence invisible...
We tend to use a dice to sit on top of undrafted packs. But also if someone is taking a while to pick for some reason, we will put the packs in order in front of them. This hasn't caused much issue. It also puts the blame on one person so we can call them out about being slow or absent.
We are using dice on the booster packs as well. And it is common practice to mock the player who has 3+ booster packs waiting in line in front of them.
Thanks man I've had to slow down the altering a bit because the costs are starting to pile up, but I'm pretty happy with the density of alters when we draft. There's a nice diversity in packs right now, between alters, cool promos, OG foils, and Beta, each pack is really fun to open Yah, we mock people who can't read cards either or who play slow, you gotta toughen them up somehow
Hey everyone, it's been a long time since I've actively and passionately looked at the construction aspect of my cube. Thankfully, my interest was rekindled recently after I began listening to Kranny's podcast "Joy of Cubing" on my way to and from work. The episode in particular was called "Supporting Combo" and examined what the combo archetype in cube might look like, some ideas on how to support it, and the hit and misses of the various MTGO cube's attempts at it. Here are some things I took away from it:
1. The larger the cube, the worse combo will get.
2. Don't try to support to many different things at once.
3. Don't have too many useless cards that only work in one archetype.
Keeping these points in mind, I've tried to warp my environment into a healthy combo supporting format. In order to do this though, I made sweeping changes over two stages: Cutting from 450 to 360; then choosing which archetypes will be replaced at the 360 level by combo enablers.
[b]Part 1 of 2014 Combo Update: The Cut to 360[/b]
For this step, I tried to make it as close as I could to a tight 360 list. Here are the following cuts I made from this list:
Blue and White each had an extra cut because I moved the two phyrexian mana cards from colorless to their corresponding colored sections. My main targets in this cut were fringe 450 cards, midrange redundancy, and archetype role players that I no longer had room to support. Even with these things in mind, the final few cuts in each section were grueling and largely debatable based on differing individual experiences with them.
[b]Part 2 of 2014 Combo Update: Crafting a Combo Environment[/b]
Now that I had a rough draft for my 360, I was faced with finding even MORE cuts. To make this easier on myself, I decided to breakdown which colors would promote combo, and furthermore, what those colors would need to stop doing to make room for it.
[b]The Cuts:[/b] These cuts will probably be pretty controversial to the majority of you, but I decided that blue was already the best color in the cube, so Ancestral Recall and Time Walk did more damage than good. Daze was a fringe counterspell that gave combo some free protection that I wasn't really comfortable with. If combo has trouble without it, it may come back in to strengthen the archetype's protection suite. I decided that I'd rather support more combo heavy artifact.dec than blue devotion at this level, so Aether Adept and Coralhelm Commander were out as well. Memory Lapse was cut because I thought that the density of counterspells at this level was a little too high, but playtesting may prove otherwise.
[b]The Adds:[/b] Tezzeret the Seeker and Show and Tell add build around me cards for the artifact deck and fatty cheating decks, respectively. Repeal and Frantic Search gives combo some spell support while being serviceable spells in other archetypes. Palinchron comes in as a flexible control/combo finisher. And finally, Pestermite is part of a two card combo that's also serviceable in most tempo decks.
[b]Overall:[/b] I envision blue to be mostly a support color for other various combo strategies, making good use of its card advantage and card filtering spells while also providing necessary cogs for the combo engines.
[b]The Cuts:[/b] With Geralf's Messenger, Smallpox, and Reassembling Skeleton getting the axe, pox was one of the unfortunate casualties of this update. I'll be looking hard at what I can do to bring it back into the mix over the next couple drafts. Also, now that the whole cube will be drafted each time, I think I can remove the weakest reanimation spell left.
[b]The Adds:[/b] Yawgmoth's Will is a solid role player in combo and will be a key card in the storm decks. I'm hoping its similarly named brother Yawgmoth's Bargain will be a powerful draw engine for combo and control alike. It's been a while since I've played with it, but if it fails to perform, it'll be cut for another combo enabler. Cabal Ritual gives combo a card that only it will want, but provides a vital role for ramping and storming. Tendrils of Agony is the build around card of this colors update and will be one of only two storm cards in the cube.
[b]Overall:[/b] A lot of black's important combo cards are first picks in multiple decks, so I wanted to give the color a few cards that weren't so universally drafted to give the combo player a better chance at putting the deck together.
[b]The Cuts:[/b] This update brings some costly game enders into red, so Thundermaw Hellkite bit the dust to make room for them. Flames of the Firebrand and Searing Spear are redundant spells and aren't really needed at this size. I could be wrong about Flames though, so I wouldn't be surprised to see it back in the near future if it's missed. Molten Rain was a tough cut, but I couldn't find ANYTHING else that I wanted out of the section. Wildfire and Burning of Xinye were casualties of supporting less archetypes. They also suffered from never being drafted in my playgroup.
[b]The Adds:[/b] Splinter Twin and Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker come in to enable the infinite creature combo, as well as adding some cool value plays for other decks. Guttersnipe adds another weapon to the storm decks arsenal, possibly enabling lower game ending storm counts via Tendrils/Empty. Zealous Conscripts provides the Splinter Twin deck with another infinite creature combo piece while also being serviceable in a wide variety of midrange decks. Empty the Warrens is probably the strongest storm spell in my opinion because you don't need to get up super high to have it end the game - even a storm of 3-4 is great value. Chandra, the Firebrand is easily the weakest card added in this update, but I want to see how it performs in a combo heavy meta. This could easily become something else in the future if it fails to impress.
[b]Overall:[/b] In my opinion, red received one of the largest overhauls. Wildfire decks are gone, burn decks took a bit of a hit, and the LD package is weakened even further. If utility lands get out of hand, I'll have to reevaluate this though. With the recent additions, I think this color is the most combo heavy color in the cube now.
[b]The Cuts:[/b] River Boa was the weakest of my two drops, Polukranos, World Eater was expendable midrange fodder, and Fyndhorn Elves seemed like one too many mana elves at this size and had the ugliest art to boot.
[b]The Adds:[/b] I'm interested to see Heartbeat of Spring based combo/ramp decks in action. All Sun's Dawn is a mass regrowth variant to aid combo. Tattermunge Maniac is to give aggro another tool to fight the onslaught of unfair decks.
[b]Overall:[/b] A relatively minor update in green. Nothing irreplaceable was lost, and yet we gave combo/ramp a few tools if the player branches out into green and gave aggro a 1 drop to offset the lose of Kird Ape in R/G.
[b]The Cuts:[/b] Duskmantle See was unnecessary now that I'm not pushing aggro/tempo in those colors as harshly. Voice of Resurgence is an amazing card and I want it back in at some point, but Gaddock seemed more necessary to fight the various high powered combo/control decks sprouting up en force after this update. Kird Ape was a casualty of lacking room, but may find its way back in later.
[b]The Cuts:[/b] I thought that 5 swords were a tad much, even at 450. At 360, I won't miss what I think is the weakest of the bunch. And Black Lotus is a bit too explosive and powerful in combo decks for the environment I'm trying to create.
I went a little heavy with the combo update I think, but when I add new things like this, I want players to draft it and be successful. Once they see it works, I can scale it down as necessary. Now, I'm interested in what people think does and doesn't work here. Was there a card I cut or added that you don't agree with? Tell me! This has all been theorycraft thus far, since playtesting won't begin till at least next friday. I.e. nothing's set in stone.
If you'd like to look at rough draft list, you can find it here.
I'm putting together a cube draft with only 270 cards, and then I'll add only 2 types of dual lands, already have the duals old and I'm in doubt between what other kind can add: Shock Lands and Fetch Lands?
I'm putting together a cube draft with only 270 cards, and then I'll add only 2 types of dual lands, already have the duals old and I'm in doubt between what other kind can add: Shock Lands and Fetch Lands?
Can you help me with this question? Which would you choose?
Thank you!
Hey armando_zuffi!
I think for all the reasons you mentioned, Fetches are a better choice. I also like that they provide players with a unique effect instead of being worse versions of the duals you already have. They also require a bit more strategy on the controller's side, knowing when to hold the fetch and when to use it, which adds even more depth to the game. Hope that helps!
I think I'd rather keep Cultivate or Kodama's reach over Plow under. Mana fixing in green is what people expect and it makes a good base for 5 color decks. Players might go in with that expectation and be sorely dissappointed. I think I'd opt for Natural Order over Green Sun's Zenith if you have a few high power targets to draft, otherwise I'd keep it GSZ.
I promise this will be my last question, at least for now;)
What do you think of Looter il-Kor the cube? I was wanting to add it, but I can not see where it fits down your chim ... these cards, which you cut to add Looter il-Kor (If he were better than some)?
I think Sorin and Ajani Vengeant for sure. They are both very strong PWers.
Cursed Scroll, Ankh and Black Vise are strong aggro enablers since they are cheap and put pressure on the opponent early in the game. Black Vise can be played in your 1 drop slot with a high potential for damage early on. Ankh punishes Midrange and Control pretty harshly, making them rethink their land drops ripe with potential for misplays from your opponents. And the Scroll allows you to close out the game later on when you may have run out of gas. All are pretty important for aggro decks to function smoothly in a relatively consistent matter. Engineered Explosives is much more a Mid/Control card, but imo its the best of its kind because you don't have to wait for the counters ala Ratchet Bomb or Powder Keg.
One more thing about the colorless aggro enablers: During a draft, without a bomb in the pack, its sometimes correct to pick colorless cards to leave yourself as open as possible till you get a clearer picture of what the person to your right is taking. These colorless aggro cards are stellar in that regard!
I think Chrome Mox is much better than Chromatic Lantern, especially at 270. I wouldn't even consider the lantern, even at 360. It'd be more helpful if you had a list up somewhere to see whats up
To complete the assembly of the cube still need to choose 1 more card of some guilds, gostari to know among these option for every guild card which would you choose and why :
What do you think of Duress ? I add it in, but do not know what I can cut, can you not give me a hint of what to cut? (Or if it is worth cutting something to play with him?)
Pics and CubeTutor have been updated with most current list, which includes up-to and including DTK. Comments welcome, especially about how you think the blue and black devotion support looks.
I would just like to say that this is an incredible cube. I spent a good 15 minutes looking at each alter and artist signature just admiring. I am not even close to finishing my cube but I hope when I finish it, it is close to this. One of my favorite parts of your cube is that you left the P3K cards white bordered. I LOVE THAT! It looks so good and they stick out when their are very few of them. I plan to do the same with summer magic and P3K.
As for the alters, I really enjoy the artists you chose to do the work. They do amazing jobs and the art is amazing. Each image embodies the card from a very "dark" black reanimation spell, to the beautiful dual land cycles, to that hilarious scavenging ooze. Great work. It also comforts me to know that there are more of us who spend big bucks on alters. It's a little easier to justify so I can tell myself I'm not the only one haha.
I would just be curious to ask, are your art choices weighed upon a specific preference? Foil, altered? Specific art? I would assume it's whatever you like. Cards like Promo Reclamation Sage just seem better to me. I also have both and cannot decide between the two.
How long did it take for you to fully finish? I am a year in and seem so far away. How was it working with artists to get complete land cycles done? Time?
Just curious to ask.
Great Cube. Will probably look back several times. You are up there in my book at top 3 cubes I've ever seen. Still building mine but I am right behind you!
Thanks so much for sharing the scans of your cube, the amount of time, money, effort, and attention to detail you have shown in putting together your cube is nothing short of amazing. Your players are really lucky to be able to have you building their cube for them. I'm particularly impressed by the variety of styles of alters you've chosen, from silly to gothic to classic they're all incredible. You have incredible taste.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
465 card Unpowered cube thread. Draft it here and I'll be happy to return the favor.
450 card Peasant cube thread. Draft it here.
I would just like to say that this is an incredible cube. I spent a good 15 minutes looking at each alter and artist signature just admiring. I am not even close to finishing my cube but I hope when I finish it, it is close to this. One of my favorite parts of your cube is that you left the P3K cards white bordered. I LOVE THAT! It looks so good and they stick out when their are very few of them. I plan to do the same with summer magic and P3K.
As for the alters, I really enjoy the artists you chose to do the work. They do amazing jobs and the art is amazing. Each image embodies the card from a very "dark" black reanimation spell, to the beautiful dual land cycles, to that hilarious scavenging ooze. Great work. It also comforts me to know that there are more of us who spend big bucks on alters. It's a little easier to justify so I can tell myself I'm not the only one haha.
I would just be curious to ask, are your art choices weighed upon a specific preference? Foil, altered? Specific art? I would assume it's whatever you like. Cards like Promo Reclamation Sage just seem better to me. I also have both and cannot decide between the two.
How long did it take for you to fully finish? I am a year in and seem so far away. How was it working with artists to get complete land cycles done? Time?
Just curious to ask.
Great Cube. Will probably look back several times. You are up there in my book at top 3 cubes I've ever seen. Still building mine but I am right behind you!
Thanks for all the praise MerfolkMagic To answer a few of your questions:
1. The art choices: This is a hard one. I spent countless hours a few years ago combing through the Altered Cards thread in the artwork forum, looking for people with styles that interested me. That's where I began my obsession with Seesic, Poxy13, Bigup, Demonium and many others. With the people who consistently put up great original work, I give them little to no art direction because I trust they will put out an awesome piece. For others that are extremely talented at copying pictures, I look for pictures that I think capture the essence of what I want the card to look like in the end, give it to them as a guide, and let them do their thing. Each artist has their own style, which is great because it adds a lot of variance to each pack.
2. As for how long it took to fully finish my cube, I joined this site solely to load up my cube, so it was the date I joined minus about 4-6 months. So I guess the end of 2008? I bought the bulk of my foils in 2009 and 2011, on two separate deployments. As for the alters, patience is the only thing I can stress, especially with how busy alterists are these days. Many alters in my cube I had to wait close to a year for them to get completed and returned. All I can recommend is finding people you like, contacting them, then send them your stuff and check in every now and then to see whats up. If you do that multiple times over a year to various artists, all of a sudden in a few years your cube is packed full of awesome stuff.
3. In the beginning, my rule was Beta --> Original Foil --> Best Promo Foil (Judge or FNM) --> Oldest version black bordered non-foil. That obviously loosened as I went along, because some original artworks can't compare to their promo friends. Then once I finished that in 2011, I wanted to keep going with the pimping, so I started alters on only cards I couldn't foil. Alters are like crack though, so that restriction went by the wayside pretty quickly, though I still try to prioritize those cards if I have a good idea for them.
Thanks so much for sharing the scans of your cube, the amount of time, money, effort, and attention to detail you have shown in putting together your cube is nothing short of amazing. Your players are really lucky to be able to have you building their cube for them. I'm particularly impressed by the variety of styles of alters you've chosen, from silly to gothic to classic they're all incredible. You have incredible taste.
Thank you very much Spike Rogue! At this point it feels close to how art collectors feel I would guess. Some of them I can't even put a price on because they are so awesome. I'm sure other people who have alters feel the same way as well
Did you just put all your cards on a flat-bed scanner? Would like to update my photos sometime, but I just find it daunting to constantly re-photo everything. If so, how many per scan did you use?
Hoping to get some feedback on the Devotion support in blue and black from those that have tried those strategies out in their cube. Do you all think there's enough rewards for going down that path during the draft? Which cards would push you into that strategy early? Am I missing something you think is important to those strategies?
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
Follow me. I tweet.
Among my friends, I am well known for replying "It's all on the card." to most of their card text related questions. Apparently, they find that highly annoying ("Why can't you just answer my question? I wouldn't have asked if the card text was clear!"), but most of those questions are completely unnecessary. Half the questions are about abilities that have reminder text on the card! I guess using a slightly smaller font and italics does indeed make a sentence invisible...
We are using dice on the booster packs as well. And it is common practice to mock the player who has 3+ booster packs waiting in line in front of them.
Uril, the Miststalker RGW -- Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre C -- Vhati il-Dal BG -- Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer RW -- Animar, Soul of Elements URG
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker R -- Maga, Traitor to Mortals B -- Ghave, Guru of Spores BGW -- Sliver Hivelord WUBRG
Thanks man I've had to slow down the altering a bit because the costs are starting to pile up, but I'm pretty happy with the density of alters when we draft. There's a nice diversity in packs right now, between alters, cool promos, OG foils, and Beta, each pack is really fun to open Yah, we mock people who can't read cards either or who play slow, you gotta toughen them up somehow
(CubeTutor & MTGS)
360 Peasant Cube!
Custom Cube
RWU Miracles RWU
Hey everyone, it's been a long time since I've actively and passionately looked at the construction aspect of my cube. Thankfully, my interest was rekindled recently after I began listening to Kranny's podcast "Joy of Cubing" on my way to and from work. The episode in particular was called "Supporting Combo" and examined what the combo archetype in cube might look like, some ideas on how to support it, and the hit and misses of the various MTGO cube's attempts at it. Here are some things I took away from it:
1. The larger the cube, the worse combo will get.
2. Don't try to support to many different things at once.
3. Don't have too many useless cards that only work in one archetype.
Keeping these points in mind, I've tried to warp my environment into a healthy combo supporting format. In order to do this though, I made sweeping changes over two stages: Cutting from 450 to 360; then choosing which archetypes will be replaced at the 360 level by combo enablers.
[b]Part 1 of 2014 Combo Update: The Cut to 360[/b]
For this step, I tried to make it as close as I could to a tight 360 list. Here are the following cuts I made from this list:
1 Ajani Goldmane
1 Cloistered Youth
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Entreat the Angels
1 Eternal Dragon
1 Exalted Angel
1 Karmic Guide
1 Knight of Meadowgrain
1 Parallax Wave
1 Spear of Heliod
Blue
1 Aetherling
1 Bribery
1 Capsize
1 Crystal Shard
1 Faerie Conclave
1 Frostburn Weird
1 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
1 Master of Waves
1 Morphling
1 Sower of Temptation
1 Thassa, God of the Sea
Black
1 Blood Scrivener
1 Consuming Vapors
1 Contagion
1 Curse of Shallow Graves
1 Dance of the Dead
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Nezumi Graverobber
1 Shadowborn Demon
1 Sinkhole
1 Tombstalker
1 Ash Zealot
1 Blistering Firecat
1 Bonfire of the Damned
1 Chandra Nalaar
1 Earthquake
1 Firestorm
1 Hellrider
1 Stromkirk Noble
1 Tempt with Vengeance
1 Fulminator Mage
Green
1 Arbor Elf
1 Curse of Predation
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter
1 Hornet Queen
1 Jungle Lion
1 Kalonian Hydra
1 Master of the Wild Hunt
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Vinelasher Kudzu
1 Vorapede
Guild
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Battlefield Forge
1 Boros Reckoner
1 Caves of Koilos
1 Celestial Colonnade
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Desolation Angel
1 Far // Away
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Lavaclaw Reaches
1 Llanowar Wastes
1 Loam Lion
1 Prime Speaker Zegana
1 Raging Ravine
1 Sarkhan Vol
1 Shivan Reef
1 Steam Augury
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Yavimaya Coast
1 Ankh of Mishra
1 Chrome Mox
1 Coldsteel Heart
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Erratic Portal
1 Everflowing Chalice
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Gemstone Mine
1 Icy Manipulator
1 Masticore
1 Mind Stone
1 Precursor Golem
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Triskelion
1 Undiscovered Paradise
1 Worn Powerstone
Blue and White each had an extra cut because I moved the two phyrexian mana cards from colorless to their corresponding colored sections. My main targets in this cut were fringe 450 cards, midrange redundancy, and archetype role players that I no longer had room to support. Even with these things in mind, the final few cuts in each section were grueling and largely debatable based on differing individual experiences with them.
[b]Part 2 of 2014 Combo Update: Crafting a Combo Environment[/b]
Now that I had a rough draft for my 360, I was faced with finding even MORE cuts. To make this easier on myself, I decided to breakdown which colors would promote combo, and furthermore, what those colors would need to stop doing to make room for it.
This is the only color that had no change. There weren't any cards that met my criteria at this level.
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Daze
1 Aether Adept
1 Coralhelm Commander
1 Memory Lapse
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
1 Repeal
1 Palinchron
1 Frantic Search
1 Show and Tell
1 Pestermite
[b]The Cuts:[/b] These cuts will probably be pretty controversial to the majority of you, but I decided that blue was already the best color in the cube, so Ancestral Recall and Time Walk did more damage than good. Daze was a fringe counterspell that gave combo some free protection that I wasn't really comfortable with. If combo has trouble without it, it may come back in to strengthen the archetype's protection suite. I decided that I'd rather support more combo heavy artifact.dec than blue devotion at this level, so Aether Adept and Coralhelm Commander were out as well. Memory Lapse was cut because I thought that the density of counterspells at this level was a little too high, but playtesting may prove otherwise.
[b]The Adds:[/b] Tezzeret the Seeker and Show and Tell add build around me cards for the artifact deck and fatty cheating decks, respectively. Repeal and Frantic Search gives combo some spell support while being serviceable spells in other archetypes. Palinchron comes in as a flexible control/combo finisher. And finally, Pestermite is part of a two card combo that's also serviceable in most tempo decks.
[b]Overall:[/b] I envision blue to be mostly a support color for other various combo strategies, making good use of its card advantage and card filtering spells while also providing necessary cogs for the combo engines.
1 Geralf's Messenger
1 Necromancy
1 Smallpox
1 Reassembling Skeleton
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Yawgmoth's Bargain
1 Cabal Ritual
1 Tendrils of Agony
[b]The Cuts:[/b] With Geralf's Messenger, Smallpox, and Reassembling Skeleton getting the axe, pox was one of the unfortunate casualties of this update. I'll be looking hard at what I can do to bring it back into the mix over the next couple drafts. Also, now that the whole cube will be drafted each time, I think I can remove the weakest reanimation spell left.
[b]The Adds:[/b] Yawgmoth's Will is a solid role player in combo and will be a key card in the storm decks. I'm hoping its similarly named brother Yawgmoth's Bargain will be a powerful draw engine for combo and control alike. It's been a while since I've played with it, but if it fails to perform, it'll be cut for another combo enabler. Cabal Ritual gives combo a card that only it will want, but provides a vital role for ramping and storming. Tendrils of Agony is the build around card of this colors update and will be one of only two storm cards in the cube.
[b]Overall:[/b] A lot of black's important combo cards are first picks in multiple decks, so I wanted to give the color a few cards that weren't so universally drafted to give the combo player a better chance at putting the deck together.
1 Thundermaw Hellkite
1 Molten Rain
1 Flames of the Firebrand
1 Searing Spear
1 Wildfire
1 Burning of Xinye
1 Splinter Twin
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Guttersnipe
1 Chandra, the Firebrand
1 Zealous Conscripts
1 Empty the Warrens
[b]The Cuts:[/b] This update brings some costly game enders into red, so Thundermaw Hellkite bit the dust to make room for them. Flames of the Firebrand and Searing Spear are redundant spells and aren't really needed at this size. I could be wrong about Flames though, so I wouldn't be surprised to see it back in the near future if it's missed. Molten Rain was a tough cut, but I couldn't find ANYTHING else that I wanted out of the section. Wildfire and Burning of Xinye were casualties of supporting less archetypes. They also suffered from never being drafted in my playgroup.
[b]The Adds:[/b] Splinter Twin and Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker come in to enable the infinite creature combo, as well as adding some cool value plays for other decks. Guttersnipe adds another weapon to the storm decks arsenal, possibly enabling lower game ending storm counts via Tendrils/Empty. Zealous Conscripts provides the Splinter Twin deck with another infinite creature combo piece while also being serviceable in a wide variety of midrange decks. Empty the Warrens is probably the strongest storm spell in my opinion because you don't need to get up super high to have it end the game - even a storm of 3-4 is great value. Chandra, the Firebrand is easily the weakest card added in this update, but I want to see how it performs in a combo heavy meta. This could easily become something else in the future if it fails to impress.
[b]Overall:[/b] In my opinion, red received one of the largest overhauls. Wildfire decks are gone, burn decks took a bit of a hit, and the LD package is weakened even further. If utility lands get out of hand, I'll have to reevaluate this though. With the recent additions, I think this color is the most combo heavy color in the cube now.
1 River Boa
1 Polukranos, World Eater
1 Fyndhorn Elves
1 Heartbeat of Spring
1 All Sun's Dawn
1 Tattermunge Maniac
[b]The Cuts:[/b] River Boa was the weakest of my two drops, Polukranos, World Eater was expendable midrange fodder, and Fyndhorn Elves seemed like one too many mana elves at this size and had the ugliest art to boot.
[b]The Adds:[/b] I'm interested to see Heartbeat of Spring based combo/ramp decks in action. All Sun's Dawn is a mass regrowth variant to aid combo. Tattermunge Maniac is to give aggro another tool to fight the onslaught of unfair decks.
[b]Overall:[/b] A relatively minor update in green. Nothing irreplaceable was lost, and yet we gave combo/ramp a few tools if the player branches out into green and gave aggro a 1 drop to offset the lose of Kird Ape in R/G.
1 Duskmantle Seer
1 Voice of Resurgence
1 Kird Ape
1 Lim-Dul's Vault
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Manamorphose
[b]The Cuts:[/b] Duskmantle See was unnecessary now that I'm not pushing aggro/tempo in those colors as harshly. Voice of Resurgence is an amazing card and I want it back in at some point, but Gaddock seemed more necessary to fight the various high powered combo/control decks sprouting up en force after this update. Kird Ape was a casualty of lacking room, but may find its way back in later.
[b]The Adds:[/b] Lim-Dul's Vault and Manamorphose are more spells for combo to work with, Gaddock Teeg will give a powerful hate card to aggro decks.
[b]Overall[/b]: A basic update to this section to provide some more support for combo in various color combinations.
1 Sword of War and Peace
1 Black Lotus
1 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Memory Jar
[b]The Cuts:[/b] I thought that 5 swords were a tad much, even at 450. At 360, I won't miss what I think is the weakest of the bunch. And Black Lotus is a bit too explosive and powerful in combo decks for the environment I'm trying to create.
[b]The Adds:[/b] Lion's Eye Diamond and Memory Jar both serve as combo support.
[b]Overall:[b/] Some hard cuts, but added some more redundancy/role players for combo.
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I went a little heavy with the combo update I think, but when I add new things like this, I want players to draft it and be successful. Once they see it works, I can scale it down as necessary. Now, I'm interested in what people think does and doesn't work here. Was there a card I cut or added that you don't agree with? Tell me! This has all been theorycraft thus far, since playtesting won't begin till at least next friday. I.e. nothing's set in stone.
If you'd like to look at rough draft list, you can find it here.
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Adds: Lion's Eye Diamond
I think that's exactly what Wizards intended when they were designing Mirage
I'm adding Pestermite and Kiki-Jiki to my 360 cube to try out some combo as well, prolly not going as far as you tho.
I'm putting together a cube draft with only 270 cards, and then I'll add only 2 types of dual lands, already have the duals old and I'm in doubt between what other kind can add: Shock Lands and Fetch Lands?
I know the Shock Lands are interesting by adding two colors of mana but Fetch has great synergy with some of the cards from the cube as Sun Titan, Brainstorm, Grim Lavamancer, Tarmogoyf, Life from the Loam, Crucible of Worlds, among others .. .
Can you help me with this question? Which would you choose?
Thank you!
I think for all the reasons you mentioned, Fetches are a better choice. I also like that they provide players with a unique effect instead of being worse versions of the duals you already have. They also require a bit more strategy on the controller's side, knowing when to hold the fetch and when to use it, which adds even more depth to the game. Hope that helps!
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Another question: I was thinking of cutting Cultivate and Kodama's Reach and Natural Order and maintain only:
1 Worldly Tutor
1 Regrowth
1 Survival of the Fittest
1 Sylvan Library
1 Garruk Wildspeaker
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Green Sun's Zenith
What do you think? Change anything if I had to keep only 10 green spells?
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Which would you rather run Sorin, Lord of Innistrad or Obzedat, Ghost Council and Ajani Vengeant or Boros Reckoner?
Cursed Scroll, Ankh of Mishra, Engineered Explosives and Black Vise are good in draft cube? How do you rate them? And what would be best in your opinion?
I am in doubt whether to add Chrome Mox or Chromatic Lantern, What do you consider best?
And Masticore / Molten-Tail Masticore are good in cube? In your opinion are better than Solemn Simulacrum for example? What tends to be more relevant?
thank you
What do you think of Looter il-Kor the cube? I was wanting to add it, but I can not see where it fits down your chim ... these cards, which you cut to add Looter il-Kor (If he were better than some)?
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Man-o'-War
1 Serendib Efreet
1 True-Name Nemesis
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Sower of Temptation
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Mulldrifter
1 Ætherling
1 Consecrated Sphinx
Thanks !
Cursed Scroll, Ankh and Black Vise are strong aggro enablers since they are cheap and put pressure on the opponent early in the game. Black Vise can be played in your 1 drop slot with a high potential for damage early on. Ankh punishes Midrange and Control pretty harshly, making them rethink their land drops ripe with potential for misplays from your opponents. And the Scroll allows you to close out the game later on when you may have run out of gas. All are pretty important for aggro decks to function smoothly in a relatively consistent matter. Engineered Explosives is much more a Mid/Control card, but imo its the best of its kind because you don't have to wait for the counters ala Ratchet Bomb or Powder Keg.
One more thing about the colorless aggro enablers: During a draft, without a bomb in the pack, its sometimes correct to pick colorless cards to leave yourself as open as possible till you get a clearer picture of what the person to your right is taking. These colorless aggro cards are stellar in that regard!
I think Chrome Mox is much better than Chromatic Lantern, especially at 270. I wouldn't even consider the lantern, even at 360. It'd be more helpful if you had a list up somewhere to see whats up
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To complete the assembly of the cube still need to choose 1 more card of some guilds, gostari to know among these option for every guild card which would you choose and why :
Dimir : Duskmantle Seer or Ashiok or Creeping Tar Pit(even as a land for this slot)?
Izzet : Fire//Ice ,Electrolyze or Steam Augury ?
What do you think of Duress ? I add it in, but do not know what I can cut, can you not give me a hint of what to cut? (Or if it is worth cutting something to play with him?)
1 Imperial Seal
1 Reanimate
1 Thoughtseize
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Animate Dead
1 Bitterblossom
1 Chainer's Edict
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Hymn to Tourach
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Recurring Nightmare
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Damnation
Thank you in advance, you have helped me a lot
Pics and CubeTutor have been updated with most current list, which includes up-to and including DTK. Comments welcome, especially about how you think the blue and black devotion support looks.
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As for the alters, I really enjoy the artists you chose to do the work. They do amazing jobs and the art is amazing. Each image embodies the card from a very "dark" black reanimation spell, to the beautiful dual land cycles, to that hilarious scavenging ooze. Great work. It also comforts me to know that there are more of us who spend big bucks on alters. It's a little easier to justify so I can tell myself I'm not the only one haha.
I would just be curious to ask, are your art choices weighed upon a specific preference? Foil, altered? Specific art? I would assume it's whatever you like. Cards like Promo Reclamation Sage just seem better to me. I also have both and cannot decide between the two.
How long did it take for you to fully finish? I am a year in and seem so far away. How was it working with artists to get complete land cycles done? Time?
Just curious to ask.
Great Cube. Will probably look back several times. You are up there in my book at top 3 cubes I've ever seen. Still building mine but I am right behind you!
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1. The art choices: This is a hard one. I spent countless hours a few years ago combing through the Altered Cards thread in the artwork forum, looking for people with styles that interested me. That's where I began my obsession with Seesic, Poxy13, Bigup, Demonium and many others. With the people who consistently put up great original work, I give them little to no art direction because I trust they will put out an awesome piece. For others that are extremely talented at copying pictures, I look for pictures that I think capture the essence of what I want the card to look like in the end, give it to them as a guide, and let them do their thing. Each artist has their own style, which is great because it adds a lot of variance to each pack.
2. As for how long it took to fully finish my cube, I joined this site solely to load up my cube, so it was the date I joined minus about 4-6 months. So I guess the end of 2008? I bought the bulk of my foils in 2009 and 2011, on two separate deployments. As for the alters, patience is the only thing I can stress, especially with how busy alterists are these days. Many alters in my cube I had to wait close to a year for them to get completed and returned. All I can recommend is finding people you like, contacting them, then send them your stuff and check in every now and then to see whats up. If you do that multiple times over a year to various artists, all of a sudden in a few years your cube is packed full of awesome stuff.
3. In the beginning, my rule was Beta --> Original Foil --> Best Promo Foil (Judge or FNM) --> Oldest version black bordered non-foil. That obviously loosened as I went along, because some original artworks can't compare to their promo friends. Then once I finished that in 2011, I wanted to keep going with the pimping, so I started alters on only cards I couldn't foil. Alters are like crack though, so that restriction went by the wayside pretty quickly, though I still try to prioritize those cards if I have a good idea for them. Thank you very much Spike Rogue! At this point it feels close to how art collectors feel I would guess. Some of them I can't even put a price on because they are so awesome. I'm sure other people who have alters feel the same way as well
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Beautiful Cube, nice job assembling it!
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