I'm actually a really big fan of Sleep, but I don't think it's strong enough to give it a guarenteed spot. That is a card I'll put on the maybe list. Now for the changes after M10:
Indrik Stomphowler --> Acidic Slime: I felt like this was a pretty straightforward switch. In a larger cube, these would both be obvious ins, but with it being this small i have to make difficult cuts, especially when cards are very similiar in utility. This is one of those. Indrik has a larger body, but Slime has deathtouch and can hit creatures with its CITP ability, which is why it makes the cut. Battlegrace Angel --> Baneslayer Angel: This cut is just based on how I built the white part of my cube. I built it to overwhelm, a basic white weenie strategy. Battlegrace is VERY good, but her ability is wasted when in white weenie. Baneslayer is always 5/5 and always has lifelink, which makes him better on the block and makes him better in the white weenie strat. Cloudgoat Ranger --> Captain of the Watch: Basically a larger Ranger that makes 2/2's instead of 1/1's and pumps the pretty heavy soldier theme in white. Also can attack and block, which is always nice. Savannah Lions --> Elite Vanguard: Creature type matters here. Glorious Anthem --> Honor of the Pure: A cheaper card that is used in the same strategy. Sure it may not affect as wide an array of creatures, but Anthem was mainly used in white weenie themes because of its double white casting cost anyways. Call of the Herd --> Master of the Wild Hunt: This was a bit more of a difficult cut. They are pretty different cards, but I like the fact that this card could potentially give you more creatures (only takes 2 turns) and gives green a way to deal direct damage to creatures.
There is one other change I wanted to make, but need others opinions on it. I was thinking of switching out Deranged Hermit for Ant Queen. Hermit has a certain explosiveness that can be abused by reanimation and blink effects, but i think Ant Queen will have a larger effect on the game more often. You get a 5/5 body for the same price as a 1/1 that comes into play with 4 1/1's, and you get a reusable ability that has the potential to make 3 1/1 guys the following turn. What are your guys thoughts?
I'm actually a really big fan of Sleep, but I don't think it's strong enough to give it a guarenteed spot. That is a card I'll put on the maybe list. Now for the changes after M10:
Indrik Stomphowler --> Acidic Slime: I felt like this was a pretty straightforward switch. In a larger cube, these would both be obvious ins, but with it being this small i have to make difficult cuts, especially when cards are very similiar in utility. This is one of those. Indrik has a larger body, but Slime has deathtouch and can hit creatures with its CITP ability, which is why it makes the cut. Battlegrace Angel --> Baneslayer Angel: This cut is just based on how I built the white part of my cube. I built it to overwhelm, a basic white weenie strategy. Battlegrace is VERY good, but her ability is wasted when in white weenie. Baneslayer is always 5/5 and always has lifelink, which makes him better on the block and makes him better in the white weenie strat. Cloudgoat Ranger --> Captain of the Watch: Basically a larger Ranger that makes 2/2's instead of 1/1's and pumps the pretty heavy soldier theme in white. Also can attack and block, which is always nice. Savannah Lions --> Elite Vanguard: Creature type matters here. Glorious Anthem --> Honor of the Pure: A cheaper card that is used in the same strategy. Sure it may not affect as wide an array of creatures, but Anthem was mainly used in white weenie themes because of its double white casting cost anyways. Call of the Herd --> Master of the Wild Hunt: This was a bit more of a difficult cut. They are pretty different cards, but I like the fact that this card could potentially give you more creatures (only takes 2 turns) and gives green a way to deal direct damage to creatures.
There is one other change I wanted to make, but need others opinions on it. I was thinking of switching out Deranged Hermit for Ant Queen. Hermit has a certain explosiveness that can be abused by reanimation and blink effects, but i think Ant Queen will have a larger effect on the game more often. You get a 5/5 body for the same price as a 1/1 that comes into play with 4 1/1's, and you get a reusable ability that has the potential to make 3 1/1 guys the following turn. What are your guys thoughts?
Man, this is an example of why I can never build a smaller cube. All the cards you're adding in are awesome.....but all the cards you are removing for them are just as awesome.
Man, this is an example of why I can never build a smaller cube. All the cards you're adding in are awesome.....but all the cards you are removing for them are just as awesome.
What you said... That's why my cube have grown and grown.
I soon need to make a big cut again.
If I were you, I'd run Stomphowler and Slime and cut Creeping Mold. Green loves creatures with CITP abilities much more than it loves sorceries.
If you really want to enable WW, you'd keep the lions, add the Vanguard, and look for something else to cut. Edit: Suggestion: Blade of the Sixth Pride.
I actually like Cloudgoat more than Captain (although they are both great). Cloudgoat is cheaper and has semi-evasion. However, I can't fault you at all for replacing it with the Captain.
There is one other change I wanted to make, but need others opinions on it. I was thinking of switching out Deranged Hermit for Ant Queen. Hermit has a certain explosiveness that can be abused by reanimation and blink effects, but i think Ant Queen will have a larger effect on the game more often. You get a 5/5 body for the same price as a 1/1 that comes into play with 4 1/1's, and you get a reusable ability that has the potential to make 3 1/1 guys the following turn. What are your guys thoughts?
I have to disagree here. The major difference I have found between cube and other limited formats is the abundance of removal. Creatures that either are difficult to hit with removal, or make removal less powerful (in this case, by leaving tokens behind) shine in cube.
Also, you can't understate Deranged Hermit's insane interaction with other cards in the cube. Reanimation and Blink effects, which are quite abundant in most cubes, flat out win you the game with this guy. I was lucky enough to draft him a few picks after my P1P1 Recurring Nightmare last weekend, and proceeded to wreck everyone (with those two being the MVPs).
If I were you, I'd run Stomphowler and Slime and cut Creeping Mold. Green loves creatures with CITP abilities much more than it loves sorceries.
If you really want to enable WW, you'd keep the lions, add the Vanguard, and look for something else to cut. Edit: Suggestion: Blade of the Sixth Pride.
I actually like Cloudgoat more than Captain (although they are both great). Cloudgoat is cheaper and has semi-evasion. However, I can't fault you at all for replacing it with the Captain.
Cheers,
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My big problem right now is that my curve for each color is a bit high, but still manageable. I'm trying to keep the curve the same by replacing cards in the same cmc, hence the stomphowler with the slime. As for the lions, i was looking at taking out blade of the sixth pride for vanguard, but decided to just do a straight across change. Now that you mentioned it though, i think i will add lions back in and take out blade.
I have to disagree here. The major difference I have found between cube and other limited formats is the abundance of removal. Creatures that either are difficult to hit with removal, or make removal less powerful (in this case, by leaving tokens behind) shine in cube.
Also, you can't understate Deranged Hermit's insane interaction with other cards in the cube. Reanimation and Blink effects, which are quite abundant in most cubes, flat out win you the game with this guy. I was lucky enough to draft him a few picks after my P1P1 Recurring Nightmare last weekend, and proceeded to wreck everyone (with those two being the MVPs).
I would cut Arashi out of your five drops.
Hmm, well said. Removal is highly drafted and tokens are much more difficult to deal with than one body. I like the utility and splashability of Arashi compared to Cloudthresher though. So out Cloudthresher goes
Hmm, well said. Removal is highly drafted and tokens are much more difficult to deal with than one body. I like the utility and splashability of Arashi compared to Cloudthresher though. So out Cloudthresher goes
Cloudthresher >>>> Arashi by far, Cloudthresher loses uncounterability when clearing the skies, but its body being a 7/7 with flash (and reach which is sometimes relevant) at the cost of a remarkably not hard to reach mana cost, puts it far above Arashi as a flier killer and I'd much rather take out Arashi than Cloudthresher.
Alright, it's almost time for the big update. Right now I'm looking at a pretty large amount of cards I'd like to include. Here's the list so far:
Day of Judgement (maybe)
Journey to Nowhere
Luminarch Ascension (maybe)
World Queller
Ior Expedition (maybe)
Ob Nixilis, the Fallen
Vampire Nighthawk
Vampire Lacerator (Depending if i push monoblack agro)
Bloodghast (same as above)
Sorin Markov (playtesting)
Chandra Ablaze (playtesting)
Goblin Guide
Khalani Heart Expedition (maybe)
Lotus Cobra
Oracle of Mul Daya (playtesting)
Rampaging Baloths
Scute Mob
Vines of Vastwood
Turntimber Ranger (depends on amount of allies i add)
Fetch Lands
This look good so far? I'd like to hear opinions why or why not and possibly what you would take out. At 360, its really difficult to remove and add things. I want to lower the CC throughout the cube as well so replacing cards with equal cc or higher is fine as long as they fill a similar role.
I'm not really a fan of the Turntimber Ranger, it gives 5 power for 5 mana which isn't bad and I'd consider the likely lack of good allies to be a non-factor. 5 mana green guys are generally really good with cards like Deranged Hermit, Genesis, Ant Queen, Indrik Stomphowler and the like and the ranger can't compete (especially in a 360 card cube.)
I'm iffy on Ior expedition as with blue, I generally want to draw now to get answers (but then again, I'm perfectly happy with Ancestral Vision and waiting for it.) In a cube with 360 cards, I don't see Ior making the cut.
Yah, I'm really iffy on Turntimber, not to mention the cards I would have to take out for him. He might go in once the entire block is done and enough viable allies have been released (if that happens). About Ior, I think the ability to draw two at instant speed is pretty good. The main argument against it is the fact that your opponent can destroy it before you can activate and it take s 2cc slot where alot your main counters would be. I could see it being played in an agressive UG deck or something.
Alright, so I've updated the OP to include this new addition to the cube, which i dubbeth - The Cube Module. As I sift through the cards for each color, I'll post them here and get some feedback from everyone (additions to the list, cards that shouldn't be on the list). A couple things to keep in mind when posting your suggestions:
1. It needs to be balanced cost wise i.e. if there are 13 slots for creatures, you wouldnt have 8 of them be 5cc+ for obvious reasons.
2. The cards should elaborate (for the most part) on the current theme of the color (which I'll add into the post to avoid confusion).
Alright, lets do this!
First color - GREEN Info:
16 creature slots, 9 non-creature slots
Archetype structure: Major - Big Creatures, Minor - Color Fixing, Ramping
Hey Eidolon,
Thanks for the response. Going off your suggestions, we have a average cc of 3.312 for creatures (a little high) and 4 for non creatures (a lot too high). Each color in the module needs to curve out decently well to complement the core cube. As far the creature suggestions go, I like what you did with the early drops but I think it ended a little too topheavy (three 6cc creatures). I'm having trouble with the non-creatures because I can't think of very many cubable ones (even after going through a couple of cubes on this forum). If anyone knows of some secret hidden tech, plz share
Also, if anyone would like to use creatures not on this list in their own list, I'm all for it as long as they are cubable. Just looking for a curve that is around 3 for green/black/white and a little above for blue / low for red.
Mycoloth costs 5 mana and you could list Briahorn for its Evoke cost, and Harrow for its effective manacost: G to lower the curve. The average CMC among my green cards is also a bit higher than in the remaining cube: 3,2 for non-creatures and 3,4 for creatures.
Briarhorn should not be considered for 1G (especially if it's just doing so just to lower the average CMC) - because doing it for 1G hardly ever happens and is quite suboptimal, I've yet to see a time when it's not cast for 3G and when alternate costs are used for curve purposes, they should be used when a mode is used a lot more than what the mana cost says on the card.
(IE Rude Awakening costs 8, not 5, because casting it for 5 hardly happens, Decree of Pain is cast more often for 6BB than Rude is cast for 4G, but decree is still cycled much more than it is cast.)
Mycoloth costs 5 mana and you could list Briahorn for its Evoke cost, and Harrow for its effective manacost: G to lower the curve. The average CMC among my green cards is also a bit higher than in the remaining cube: 3,2 for non-creatures and 3,4 for creatures.
some cards from my list, that might fit into your expansion: Werebear: fits both you themes: acceleration and big beater Civic Wayfinder : fixing on a body Molder Slug: good P/T on maindeckable artifact hate Search for Tomorrow: 1 turn slower than Birds of Paradise, but immune to removal and thins your deck out + immediate access to the mana you need, if you are going to hardcast it. Moment's Peace: 2 "extra turns" against aggro
Hmmm, I wasn't impressed with Werebear. Not that it isn't a good card, it just wasnt drafted often by my playgroup. I like Civic Wayfinder, but I think I have enough mana fixing already. I've found Molder Slug is only good in powered cubes, and Search for Tomorrow isn't as efficient as I'd like. Since I have 0 fog effects, I guess 1 wouldn't hurt - out goes Harrow.
Briarhorn should not be considered for 1G (especially if it's just doing so just to lower the average CMC) - because doing it for 1G hardly ever happens and is quite suboptimal, I've yet to see a time when it's not cast for 3G and when alternate costs are used for curve purposes, they should be used when a mode is used a lot more than what the mana cost says on the card.
(IE Rude Awakening costs 8, not 5, because casting it for 5 hardly happens, Decree of Pain is cast more often for 6BB than Rude is cast for 4G, but decree is still cycled much more than it is cast.)
This. If you always just go by the lowest cost on a card, be it unentwined or cycling, it will give you an inaccurate average cc per color which really does you no good. Average cc is there to help you balance your cube. Don't try to cheat it.
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Only cards i see that might make it in are:
Baneslayer Angel
Doom Blade
New white token dude
Queen of Ants
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Cheers,
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In addition to the other cards mentioned, Sleep is good.
I'm liking Cemetery Reaper, but that's probably not strong enough for a 360 cube. Ditto Harm's Way.
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Indrik Stomphowler --> Acidic Slime: I felt like this was a pretty straightforward switch. In a larger cube, these would both be obvious ins, but with it being this small i have to make difficult cuts, especially when cards are very similiar in utility. This is one of those. Indrik has a larger body, but Slime has deathtouch and can hit creatures with its CITP ability, which is why it makes the cut.
Battlegrace Angel --> Baneslayer Angel: This cut is just based on how I built the white part of my cube. I built it to overwhelm, a basic white weenie strategy. Battlegrace is VERY good, but her ability is wasted when in white weenie. Baneslayer is always 5/5 and always has lifelink, which makes him better on the block and makes him better in the white weenie strat.
Cloudgoat Ranger --> Captain of the Watch: Basically a larger Ranger that makes 2/2's instead of 1/1's and pumps the pretty heavy soldier theme in white. Also can attack and block, which is always nice.
Savannah Lions --> Elite Vanguard: Creature type matters here.
Glorious Anthem --> Honor of the Pure: A cheaper card that is used in the same strategy. Sure it may not affect as wide an array of creatures, but Anthem was mainly used in white weenie themes because of its double white casting cost anyways.
Call of the Herd --> Master of the Wild Hunt: This was a bit more of a difficult cut. They are pretty different cards, but I like the fact that this card could potentially give you more creatures (only takes 2 turns) and gives green a way to deal direct damage to creatures.
There is one other change I wanted to make, but need others opinions on it. I was thinking of switching out Deranged Hermit for Ant Queen. Hermit has a certain explosiveness that can be abused by reanimation and blink effects, but i think Ant Queen will have a larger effect on the game more often. You get a 5/5 body for the same price as a 1/1 that comes into play with 4 1/1's, and you get a reusable ability that has the potential to make 3 1/1 guys the following turn. What are your guys thoughts?
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Man, this is an example of why I can never build a smaller cube. All the cards you're adding in are awesome.....but all the cards you are removing for them are just as awesome.
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What you said... That's why my cube have grown and grown.
I soon need to make a big cut again.
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If you really want to enable WW, you'd keep the lions, add the Vanguard, and look for something else to cut. Edit: Suggestion: Blade of the Sixth Pride.
I actually like Cloudgoat more than Captain (although they are both great). Cloudgoat is cheaper and has semi-evasion. However, I can't fault you at all for replacing it with the Captain.
Cheers,
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I have to disagree here. The major difference I have found between cube and other limited formats is the abundance of removal. Creatures that either are difficult to hit with removal, or make removal less powerful (in this case, by leaving tokens behind) shine in cube.
Also, you can't understate Deranged Hermit's insane interaction with other cards in the cube. Reanimation and Blink effects, which are quite abundant in most cubes, flat out win you the game with this guy. I was lucky enough to draft him a few picks after my P1P1 Recurring Nightmare last weekend, and proceeded to wreck everyone (with those two being the MVPs).
I would cut Arashi out of your five drops.
Either this or Cloudthresher would be my vote.
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My big problem right now is that my curve for each color is a bit high, but still manageable. I'm trying to keep the curve the same by replacing cards in the same cmc, hence the stomphowler with the slime. As for the lions, i was looking at taking out blade of the sixth pride for vanguard, but decided to just do a straight across change. Now that you mentioned it though, i think i will add lions back in and take out blade.
Blade of the Sixth Pride --> Savannah Lions
As far as Cloudgoat, I am a HUGE fan of him and he may well go back in at some point in time
Hmm, well said. Removal is highly drafted and tokens are much more difficult to deal with than one body. I like the utility and splashability of Arashi compared to Cloudthresher though. So out Cloudthresher goes
Cloudthresher --> Ant Queen
Thanks everyone for your input
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Cloudthresher >>>> Arashi by far, Cloudthresher loses uncounterability when clearing the skies, but its body being a 7/7 with flash (and reach which is sometimes relevant) at the cost of a remarkably not hard to reach mana cost, puts it far above Arashi as a flier killer and I'd much rather take out Arashi than Cloudthresher.
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Day of Judgement (maybe)
Journey to Nowhere
Luminarch Ascension (maybe)
World Queller
Ior Expedition (maybe)
Ob Nixilis, the Fallen
Vampire Nighthawk
Vampire Lacerator (Depending if i push monoblack agro)
Bloodghast (same as above)
Sorin Markov (playtesting)
Chandra Ablaze (playtesting)
Goblin Guide
Khalani Heart Expedition (maybe)
Lotus Cobra
Oracle of Mul Daya (playtesting)
Rampaging Baloths
Scute Mob
Vines of Vastwood
Turntimber Ranger (depends on amount of allies i add)
Fetch Lands
This look good so far? I'd like to hear opinions why or why not and possibly what you would take out. At 360, its really difficult to remove and add things. I want to lower the CC throughout the cube as well so replacing cards with equal cc or higher is fine as long as they fill a similar role.
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I'm iffy on Ior expedition as with blue, I generally want to draw now to get answers (but then again, I'm perfectly happy with Ancestral Vision and waiting for it.) In a cube with 360 cards, I don't see Ior making the cut.
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1. It needs to be balanced cost wise i.e. if there are 13 slots for creatures, you wouldnt have 8 of them be 5cc+ for obvious reasons.
2. The cards should elaborate (for the most part) on the current theme of the color (which I'll add into the post to avoid confusion).
Alright, lets do this!
First color - GREEN
Info:
16 creature slots, 9 non-creature slots
Archetype structure: Major - Big Creatures, Minor - Color Fixing, Ramping
Cards in question:
CREATURES-
((1))
Jungle Lions
Scute Mob
Fyndhorn Elves
Pouncing Jaguar
Nimble Mongoose
Twinblade Slasher
((2))
Wild Mongrel
Mire Boa
Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary
Wall of Roots
Hermit Druid
((3))
Hystrodon
Great Stable Stag
Call of the Herd
Uktabi Orangutan
((4))
Oracle of Mul Daya
Ravenous Baloth
Briarhorn
Masked Admirers
Timbermare
Spike Weaver
((5))
Indrik Stomphowler
Arashi, the Sky Asunder
((6))
Mold Shambler
Rampaging Baloths
Terra Stomper
Deadwood Treefolk
Mycoloth
NON-CREATURES-
((1))
Quest for the Gemblades
Vines of Vastwood
Reclaim
((2))
Khalani Heart Expedition
Naturalize
Gaea's Anthem
Sylvan Scrying
((3))
Harrow
Beastmaster Ascension
((4))
Pattern of Rebirth
((5))
Saproling Burst
Overrun
All Sun's Dawn
((6))
Cobra Trap
Summoning Trap
((9))
Tooth and Nail
((X))
Chord of Calling
I'll add to the list as people comment and then cut it down to the best 16/9 cards in each. Thanks everyone in advance for the help here
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Hey Eidolon,
Thanks for the response. Going off your suggestions, we have a average cc of 3.312 for creatures (a little high) and 4 for non creatures (a lot too high). Each color in the module needs to curve out decently well to complement the core cube. As far the creature suggestions go, I like what you did with the early drops but I think it ended a little too topheavy (three 6cc creatures). I'm having trouble with the non-creatures because I can't think of very many cubable ones (even after going through a couple of cubes on this forum). If anyone knows of some secret hidden tech, plz share
Also, if anyone would like to use creatures not on this list in their own list, I'm all for it as long as they are cubable. Just looking for a curve that is around 3 for green/black/white and a little above for blue / low for red.
EDIT: Here's what I came up with:
Creatures:
Still needs some tweaking but.. it's pretty close imo.
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Briarhorn should not be considered for 1G (especially if it's just doing so just to lower the average CMC) - because doing it for 1G hardly ever happens and is quite suboptimal, I've yet to see a time when it's not cast for 3G and when alternate costs are used for curve purposes, they should be used when a mode is used a lot more than what the mana cost says on the card.
(IE Rude Awakening costs 8, not 5, because casting it for 5 hardly happens, Decree of Pain is cast more often for 6BB than Rude is cast for 4G, but decree is still cycled much more than it is cast.)
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Hmmm, I wasn't impressed with Werebear. Not that it isn't a good card, it just wasnt drafted often by my playgroup. I like Civic Wayfinder, but I think I have enough mana fixing already. I've found Molder Slug is only good in powered cubes, and Search for Tomorrow isn't as efficient as I'd like. Since I have 0 fog effects, I guess 1 wouldn't hurt - out goes Harrow.
This. If you always just go by the lowest cost on a card, be it unentwined or cycling, it will give you an inaccurate average cc per color which really does you no good. Average cc is there to help you balance your cube. Don't try to cheat it.
EDIT: OP updated with green section.
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On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
This. It becomes really abusive with certain cards too... Like Crucible & Loam.
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