Vault of the Archangel and Dryad Arbor are very rarely worth a pick, so it is even more rare to see them in play. I can't remember Dryad Arbor and the deck that would play it coming together in a draft at all, I know one of my players said he would play it in a deck once when the Dryad was not in the draft pool. Vault of the Archangel helped win a game once, but that was sealed so it is not a card the player actually had to pick.
I want to find a new system for those lands, I'd really like to have them available for the occasional case where they would be good in a deck, but I'm not sure I want to keep the utility land slot these cards occupy now. I'm not convinced that a separate land draft is the right way to go either, so yea, I'm undecided.
As for Flame Javelin, back in the day most cubes played that card. It does see play because nearly mono red decks are not a rarity at all for us, but even then the color commitment hurts. If you have less color requirement you can play more Wasteland, Rishadan Port, Mutavault and Mishra's Factory in your deck. I'm pretty sure I want to cut Flame Javelin for Lightning Strike. The 3cc spell slot is heavily contested in red decks, not only because of red spells, but mainly because of artifacts and because you really want to keep your curve low in aggressive decks.
My Cube has not seen much drafting action, only the occasional sealed or two-man (winchester, grid) draft. I played other peoples Cubes in the area, though, which is nice as well
I finally made some decisions, so I present to you the pre-BNG cuts and adds!
I removed some of the fringe lands in order to make room for an additional card in all five mono colored sections (now up to 60 cards). I'm a bit sad, but ultimately fringe spells are most likely more valuable for the draft environment than fringe lands.
The human subtheme in white is reinforced with a few controversial cuts. And yes, I know that Mirror Entity is a human as well, but it is too mana intensive for my taste.
I removed the Pox archetype; note that I keep cards like Reassembling Skeleton (which was already in my list before Pox) and Smallpox (we were not successful with building Pox decks, but we were very happy with the power of Smallpox!)
We've been having a lot of fun with red tokens since we added the support. Removing Manic Vandal seems strange though, that's the only change that really feels wrong to me.
We've been having a lot of fun with red tokens since we added the support. Removing Manic Vandal seems strange though, that's the only change that really feels wrong to me.
Well, I'm not so sure about that, but I cut back a bit on the number of artifacts, I run less Swords for example. And I consider adding Smash to Smithereens in case there is too little artifact removal.
I think your list is going to convince me to make similar changes to my own to support Purphoros, Smallpox, Trinket Mage, as well as tribal Humans and Zombies.
Well, I'm not so sure about that, but I cut back a bit on the number of artifacts, I run less Swords for example. And I consider adding Smash to Smithereens in case there is too little artifact removal.
I like Vandal more than Smash for all the regular reasons that having these effects on a body is usually good.
I don't like losing any of those white creatures. I'd miss Plated Geopede and Consuming Vapors a lot. I'd cut these instead: Hallowed Burial, Honor of the Pure, Judge's Familiar, Seismic Assault, Boggart Ram-Gang, and Mesmeric Fiend.
I think your list is going to convince me to make similar changes to my own to support Purphoros, Smallpox, Trinket Mage, as well as tribal Humans and Zombies.
I like Vandal more than Smash for all the regular reasons that having these effects on a body is usually good.
I don't like losing any of those white creatures. I'd miss Plated Geopede and Consuming Vapors a lot. I'd cut these instead: Hallowed Burial, Honor of the Pure, Judge's Familiar, Seismic Assault, Boggart Ram-Gang, and Mesmeric Fiend.
Cheers,
rant
Thanks for the critical voices, rantipole and wtwlf123!
Smash to Smithereens being an instant also has upsides. But I agree in general that effects on creatures are very good.
As for Plated Geopede, it can be very good, but also very bad. But maybe I'll miss it as well, I have brought back cards before!
Consuming Vapors is a bit on the slow side, that is why I cut it this go-around. It does provide life-gain, which is relevant, and I will have to monitor the amount of removal anyway. I changed quite a lot of black.
The cards you suggest as cuts are fringe cards - I like what they can do for the right deck, but they are certainly not for every deck. Now the exception is Hallowed Burial, I think that card is a very good wrath variant and keeps getting better the more annoying creatures that don't want to stay dead we get to play with. Also, keep in mind that I don't play Moat or Supreme Verdict, so I think I kind of need the additional wrath.
How has the Kiki-Jiki/Splinter Twin combo working out for you guys? I want to try and include a little bit of combo in our cube and this one looks viable and a lot of fun!
How has the Kiki-Jiki/Splinter Twin combo working out for you guys? I want to try and include a little bit of combo in our cube and this one looks viable and a lot of fun!
It is relatively consistent without being oppressive, it has definitely won a fair share of games. In the current configuration, I like it. Losing to it is not everyones cup of tea, but usually you have a bit of time until they have assembled all the pieces.
We used to run Deceiver Exarch as well, but that was a bit too much. Nobody else wanted that card, so you could wheel it most of the time, and it is harder to kill than Pestermite. Going off with Zealous Conscripts is more mana intensive, and Restoration Angel only works with Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker. Because Conscripts and Angel are very good outside the combo as well, you have to prioritize those cards. But if you end up with only Pestermite, you can also make up for that by playing black tutors or assorted red and blue spells that quickly go through your library.
My group has shown interest in combos (I have a guy who used to rock a Soldevi Digger deck waaaay back when) so I wanted to include some. I actually don't mind if it's oppressive at all! I wonder if it would be enough to add Kiki-Jiki and Zealous Conscripts without adding Pestermite... though I could see all three putting in solid work in an Izzet tempo shell with Kira for added protection (too bad Kiki-Jiki can't copy Vendilion Clique or Venser).
I'd probably start with a relatively heavy support (Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker, Splinter Twin, Restoration Angel, Zealous Conscripts and Pestermite) if you want the combo deck available. Of those cards, Kiki, Twin and Pestermite are questionable as standalone inclusions, but they still have applications in other decks (Kiki and Twin can be played in Blink or Token decks, Pestermite in Tempo).
I like combo being part of the gauntlet, it is a bit different to play against.
I like Soltari Priest and Mirror Entity more than Spear of Heliod, Revoke Existence, Fiend Hunter, or Leonin Relic Warder.
Soltari Priest has protection from [color], and I'm phasing out as many creatures with that ability as possible. In a limited environment, the protection from [color] ability is randomly good or irrelevant, because typically all colors are represented in draft decks but you only play a subset of those decks. In constructed, you can play protection creatures to improve a bad match up - and unless that match up is really bad for you and/or dominating the format, you will often opt to play protection creatures in the sideboard and not maindeck them. In a draft environment, you draft creatures for what they offer regardless of protection, so Soltari Priest is basically a 2/1 unblockable, can't block for WW. You can't count on the protection from red being more than flavor text. Now of course the stats on Soltari Priest are still good even disregarding the protection, but I like to reinforce the human sub-theme a bit because I like synergistic decks. Also, creatures that can block and can be blocked make for more interactive gameplay.
As for Mirror Entity, I found that we rarely had spare mana to make its ability relevant.
I also like Consuming Vapors more than Viscera Seer, Mesmeric Fiend, Xathrid Necromancer, and Cabal Therapy.
Consuming Vapors is a powerful card but with an entirely different effect than all those other cards. Whether or not I have enough removal in black as is remains to be seen, but I want to go with that amount of removal for now and increase the "preemptive removal" (discard effects) a bit.
I also like Plated Geopede and Manic Vandal more than every card added beside Firedrinker Satyr.
Many people seem to like Manic Vandal a lot more than I do! All those shatter effects on a stick are a relic from the past when red creatures were horrendous and we were happy to take whatever small advantage we could. But we got many good creatures for red recently, especially at one and two mana, and I think we should take that chance and give red a more pro-active identity. Especially in a non-powered cube, I feel that Manic Vandal is too often just a Gray Ogre if you play it on curve and if you don't, you don't pressure the opponent as hard as you could.
Plated Geopede is certainly not bad, but Cube is not Zendikar limited. In order to maximize the power of Geopede, you want to play at least 17 lands (and probably 18 or even 19), which is OK in a format with multiple other effects that benefit from playing lands. In Cube, you want to play aggressive decks with 16 or even fewer lands, in a good draw you won't have very many lands. So Geopede only gets one or two powerful attacks. I know many don't care about that, because the same is true for Keldon Marauders or Hellspark Elemental, but I don't like it because I don't believe that just because you are the red aggro deck it is right to all out attack in every match-up. Sometimes you have to play 'control' against another aggressive deck, and Geopede is bad at that (not as bad as Hellspark, but still).
My philosophy when it comes to the gold section is to play interesting, powerful cards that you are motivated to splash for or that may even inspire you to play a certain deck. Falkenrath Aristocrat is very much that: a powerful, resilient curve topper for aggro, it has synergy with the human sub-theme and it is a sac outlet for the decks that abuse that kind of thing. Dreadbore very much is not, it is the epitome of a spell that you pick and play if your mana allows it and otherwise you just ignore it. Of course it is a versatile removal spell and every deck that can play it will be happy with it, but no one will go out of their way just to include it in their deck.
I think I like Scroll Rack more than Gaea's Cradle, Tolarian Academy, and Gitaxian Probe.
Scroll Rack is mainly out because of time issues. It is amazing how much time people spend on Sensei's Divining Top already, but they take even longer on Scroll Rack.
Gitaxian Probe is an experiment, but I am optimistic. I try to support combo decks as well as the traditional theaters, and for a combo deck this card is a dream come true: it lets you play a 39 card deck and provides you with free information.
Tolarian Academy and Gaea's Cradle are cards I played and cut before. It used to bother me that they did not see a lot of play. Now, I don't care as much, I think there is room for narrow, but powerful cards. Also, because of the Magic Online Cube, much more people are aware what those cards can do and what deck you could draft in order to make them shine. We had the occasional Wizard at the draft table before who made some crazy plays with those cards, and I anticipate that this will happen more often now.
I'm adding the same cards, and I'll likely test Prophetic Flamespeaker and maybe Master of the Feast. I'd suggest cutting Mesmeric Fiend for the Scarhide.
I'm looking at roughly the same cards, less the Hall of Triumph and Dictate. Eidolon of the Great Revel has a huge impact for a 2 drop and I'll likely test that one as well. I think Flamespeaker is a sick bomb and will turn out to be a staple, since it can go into basically any deck type as well.
How has your experience been with these cards?
Best,
metagame
I want to find a new system for those lands, I'd really like to have them available for the occasional case where they would be good in a deck, but I'm not sure I want to keep the utility land slot these cards occupy now. I'm not convinced that a separate land draft is the right way to go either, so yea, I'm undecided.
As for Flame Javelin, back in the day most cubes played that card. It does see play because nearly mono red decks are not a rarity at all for us, but even then the color commitment hurts. If you have less color requirement you can play more Wasteland, Rishadan Port, Mutavault and Mishra's Factory in your deck. I'm pretty sure I want to cut Flame Javelin for Lightning Strike. The 3cc spell slot is heavily contested in red decks, not only because of red spells, but mainly because of artifacts and because you really want to keep your curve low in aggressive decks.
"What am I looking at? Ashes, dead man."
My Cube has not seen much drafting action, only the occasional sealed or two-man (winchester, grid) draft. I played other peoples Cubes in the area, though, which is nice as well
I finally made some decisions, so I present to you the pre-BNG cuts and adds!
White
- Kor Skyfisher
- Soltari Priest
- Mirror Entity
- Crusade
- Dismantling Blow
- Orim's Thunder
+ Soldier of the Pantheon
+ Imposing Sovereign
+ Leonin Relic-Warder
+ Fiend Hunter
+ Revoke Existence
+ Unexpectedly Absent
+ Spear of Heliod
Blue
- Invisible Stalker
- Sea Gate Oracle
- Sphinx of Jwar Isle
- Thirst for Knowledge
- Stroke of Genius
+ Omenspeaker
+ True-Name Nemesis
+ Meloku the Clouded Mirror
+ Ancestral Vision
+ Frantic Search
+ Thassa, God of the Sea
Black
- Dismember (moved to colorless, people have shown to be willing to play it without access to black mana)
- Cemetery Reaper
- Geralf's Messenger
- Nether Spirit
- Tragic Slip
- Contamination
- Pox
- Consuming Vapors
- Black Sun's Zenith
+ Tormented Hero
+ Viscera Seer
+ Mesmeric Fiend
+ Hypnotic Specter
+ Ophiomancer
+ Xathrid Necromancer
+ Cabal Therapy
+ Curse of Shallow Graves
+ Hero's Downfall
+ Toxic Deluge
Red
- Fireslinger
- Plated Geopede
- Fulminator Mage
- Manic Vandal
- Flame Javelin
- Red Sun's Zenith
+ Firedrinker Satyr
+ Mogg War Marshal
+ Young Pyromancer
+ Siege-Gang Commander
+ Lightning Strike
+ Empty the Warrens
+ Purphoros, God of the Forge
Green
- Gaea's Cradle (moved to colorless, just because it adds green mana to the pool does not mean that other colors are not interested)
- Gyre Sage
+ Elvish Mystic
+ Boon Satyr
+ Curse of Predation
Gold
- Kird Ape
- Loam Lion
- Dreadbore
+ Fleecemane Lion
+ Falkenrath Aristocrat
+ Xenagos, the Reveler
Land and Colorless
- Desolate Lighthouse
- Moorland Haunt
- Vault of the Archangel
- Dryad Arbor
- Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
- Dust Bowl
- Brittle Effigy
- Scroll Rack
- Staff of Domination
+ Gaea's Cradle (from green)
+ Tolarian Academy
+ Dismember (from black)
+ Gitaxian Probe
"What am I looking at? Ashes, dead man."
We've been having a lot of fun with red tokens since we added the support. Removing Manic Vandal seems strange though, that's the only change that really feels wrong to me.
"What am I looking at? Ashes, dead man."
I think your list is going to convince me to make similar changes to my own to support Purphoros, Smallpox, Trinket Mage, as well as tribal Humans and Zombies.
Yeva (88/92 foils)
Raff
Scarab
Rakdos
Wort ($50 budget, 94/97 foils)
Trostani
I like Vandal more than Smash for all the regular reasons that having these effects on a body is usually good.
I don't like losing any of those white creatures. I'd miss Plated Geopede and Consuming Vapors a lot. I'd cut these instead: Hallowed Burial, Honor of the Pure, Judge's Familiar, Seismic Assault, Boggart Ram-Gang, and Mesmeric Fiend.
Cheers,
rant
My Cube
CubeCobra: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/5f5d0310ed602310515d4c32
Cube Tutor: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1963
Thanks for the critical voices, rantipole and wtwlf123!
Smash to Smithereens being an instant also has upsides. But I agree in general that effects on creatures are very good.
As for Plated Geopede, it can be very good, but also very bad. But maybe I'll miss it as well, I have brought back cards before!
Consuming Vapors is a bit on the slow side, that is why I cut it this go-around. It does provide life-gain, which is relevant, and I will have to monitor the amount of removal anyway. I changed quite a lot of black.
The cards you suggest as cuts are fringe cards - I like what they can do for the right deck, but they are certainly not for every deck. Now the exception is Hallowed Burial, I think that card is a very good wrath variant and keeps getting better the more annoying creatures that don't want to stay dead we get to play with. Also, keep in mind that I don't play Moat or Supreme Verdict, so I think I kind of need the additional wrath.
"What am I looking at? Ashes, dead man."
We used to run Deceiver Exarch as well, but that was a bit too much. Nobody else wanted that card, so you could wheel it most of the time, and it is harder to kill than Pestermite. Going off with Zealous Conscripts is more mana intensive, and Restoration Angel only works with Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker. Because Conscripts and Angel are very good outside the combo as well, you have to prioritize those cards. But if you end up with only Pestermite, you can also make up for that by playing black tutors or assorted red and blue spells that quickly go through your library.
"What am I looking at? Ashes, dead man."
Edit: Kira would totally get in Kiki-Jiki 's way.
I like combo being part of the gauntlet, it is a bit different to play against.
"What am I looking at? Ashes, dead man."
I also like Consuming Vapors more than Viscera Seer, Mesmeric Fiend, Xathrid Necromancer, and Cabal Therapy.
I also like Plated Geopede and Manic Vandal more than every card added beside Firedrinker Satyr.
I like Dreadbore more than Aristocrat.
I think I like Scroll Rack more than Gaea's Cradle, Tolarian Academy, and Gitaxian Probe.
My cube
My cube on Cube tutor
I'm OP_Forever. I'll be putting this in my signature for a while so everyone know I change my nickname.
Soltari Priest has protection from [color], and I'm phasing out as many creatures with that ability as possible. In a limited environment, the protection from [color] ability is randomly good or irrelevant, because typically all colors are represented in draft decks but you only play a subset of those decks. In constructed, you can play protection creatures to improve a bad match up - and unless that match up is really bad for you and/or dominating the format, you will often opt to play protection creatures in the sideboard and not maindeck them. In a draft environment, you draft creatures for what they offer regardless of protection, so Soltari Priest is basically a 2/1 unblockable, can't block for WW. You can't count on the protection from red being more than flavor text. Now of course the stats on Soltari Priest are still good even disregarding the protection, but I like to reinforce the human sub-theme a bit because I like synergistic decks. Also, creatures that can block and can be blocked make for more interactive gameplay.
As for Mirror Entity, I found that we rarely had spare mana to make its ability relevant.
Consuming Vapors is a powerful card but with an entirely different effect than all those other cards. Whether or not I have enough removal in black as is remains to be seen, but I want to go with that amount of removal for now and increase the "preemptive removal" (discard effects) a bit.
Many people seem to like Manic Vandal a lot more than I do! All those shatter effects on a stick are a relic from the past when red creatures were horrendous and we were happy to take whatever small advantage we could. But we got many good creatures for red recently, especially at one and two mana, and I think we should take that chance and give red a more pro-active identity. Especially in a non-powered cube, I feel that Manic Vandal is too often just a Gray Ogre if you play it on curve and if you don't, you don't pressure the opponent as hard as you could.
Plated Geopede is certainly not bad, but Cube is not Zendikar limited. In order to maximize the power of Geopede, you want to play at least 17 lands (and probably 18 or even 19), which is OK in a format with multiple other effects that benefit from playing lands. In Cube, you want to play aggressive decks with 16 or even fewer lands, in a good draw you won't have very many lands. So Geopede only gets one or two powerful attacks. I know many don't care about that, because the same is true for Keldon Marauders or Hellspark Elemental, but I don't like it because I don't believe that just because you are the red aggro deck it is right to all out attack in every match-up. Sometimes you have to play 'control' against another aggressive deck, and Geopede is bad at that (not as bad as Hellspark, but still).
My philosophy when it comes to the gold section is to play interesting, powerful cards that you are motivated to splash for or that may even inspire you to play a certain deck. Falkenrath Aristocrat is very much that: a powerful, resilient curve topper for aggro, it has synergy with the human sub-theme and it is a sac outlet for the decks that abuse that kind of thing. Dreadbore very much is not, it is the epitome of a spell that you pick and play if your mana allows it and otherwise you just ignore it. Of course it is a versatile removal spell and every deck that can play it will be happy with it, but no one will go out of their way just to include it in their deck.
Scroll Rack is mainly out because of time issues. It is amazing how much time people spend on Sensei's Divining Top already, but they take even longer on Scroll Rack.
Gitaxian Probe is an experiment, but I am optimistic. I try to support combo decks as well as the traditional theaters, and for a combo deck this card is a dream come true: it lets you play a 39 card deck and provides you with free information.
Tolarian Academy and Gaea's Cradle are cards I played and cut before. It used to bother me that they did not see a lot of play. Now, I don't care as much, I think there is room for narrow, but powerful cards. Also, because of the Magic Online Cube, much more people are aware what those cards can do and what deck you could draft in order to make them shine. We had the occasional Wizard at the draft table before who made some crazy plays with those cards, and I anticipate that this will happen more often now.
"What am I looking at? Ashes, dead man."
Banishing Light (cut: Revoke Existence)
Gnarled Scarhide (cut: not yet decided)
Mana Confluence (cut: Barbarian Ring or a nonland-card)
Some cards from the set that I find interesting:
Dictate of Heliod
Master of the Feast
Prophetic Flamespeaker
Hall of Triumph
"What am I looking at? Ashes, dead man."
Cheers,
rant
My Cube
CubeCobra: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/5f5d0310ed602310515d4c32
Cube Tutor: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1963
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms: