This was a fun control deck that I drafted tonight. Won three out of four matches, with the loss coming mainly from being color screwed in game three of the best of three (so many white cards and not a plains to be seen).
It's been almost 4 months since my last update, so here's my latest changes, including the changes I'm making to accommodate the new cards from Dragon's Maze.
I've been feeling a need for another spot removal card in white and Temporal Isolation, while not spectacular in this role, is more than adequate until a better option comes along. Sublime Archangel wasn't bad but didn't exactly knock my socks off either, and white has been feeling a bit heavy in the 4-drop department, so this isn't a particularly difficult cut.
Ætherling looks likes it's going to be a pretty fantastic control finisher, so the sphinx becomes redundant. My playgroup and I have always had positive experiences with Coralhelm Commander, and I like having a little bit of an aggro edge in my blue section, so I'm happy to bring him back. Into the Roil is being added because I've been feeling a need for a little more bounce in blue, so it makes a welcome return. I know that some people adore Shelldock Isle but we've never liked it much at all, so it's making another exit. Gifts Ungiven is a fine card, and could easily slip right back in at a later date, though I'm kind of indifferent to it so it isn't a tremendously difficult cut.
I'm a little skeptical in regards to Blood Scrivener, but it should work well in black attrition decks, and is a zombie to boot. Kokusho returns because I've felt a need for another black finisher, and Puppeteer Clique is a card that my playgroup really likes so it returns as well. Devoted reanimator decks just aren't particularly popular with my group, so Exhume and Living Death are once again shown the door. Liliana 3 just didn't offer enough bang for the buck outside of heavy black decks, so she's out as well.
Gore-house Chainwalker ups the aggro quotient in my 2-drop section, and the returning Spikeshot Elder is a solid one drop. I'm going to give Mizzium Mortars another shot as both spot removal and sweeper in place of the rarely played Pyroclasm. I adore Ball Lightning but it just didn't fit, and Hearth Kami just hasn't felt that necessary since the appearance of Torch Fiend.
Avacyn's Pilgrim is a solid ramp creature, but is basically keeping Elvish Mystic's seat warm. Vinelasher Kudzu has been a lot of fun in testing, and my group likes it, so it's a welcome addition. Birthing Pod has been too inconsistent for my tastes, and Naturalize just felt redundant with green's other options.
Coldsteel Heart is another solid mana-rock, Perilous Myr is a fun card that my group always liked, and Reflecting Pool is one of my favorite "fixers" so it returns from the cusp. I've had mixed results with Dust Bowl in the past, but its effect is potent enough to warrant another go. Lodestone Golem and Memory Jar always felt clunky from my groups experience so they're hitting the pine again. The "razorcore" is taking a hiatus even though I like it more than some, while Ring of Gix's echo cost has cast it into binder exile.
Boros: I want to try out Boros Reckoner, so I'm going to sideline the solid yet dispensable Slayer's Stronghold.
Dimir: I don't heavily support the "artifact deck" in blue, so it doesn't make much sense to include the Dimir Tezzeret over his superior mono-colored brother. Baleful Strix is a solid card that was well liked in its previous cube stint.
Gruul: Huntmaster has been garnering mostly glowing reviews on this site, so it's now my turn to give him a chance. Flinthoof Boar has been solid in its role but is cuttable, though I'm honestly not the biggest fan of Sarkhan Vol so it could return in the near future.
Izzet: Ral Zarek is pretty sweet, so his inclusion is a given. I asked my group which card that they prefered to keep and they decided that they preferred the cheaper Electrolyze over Prophetic Bolt.
Selesnya: Voice of Resurgence looks like it's going to be an excellent addition to W/G, and Loam Lion isn't as necessary in selesnya as Kird Ape is to Gruul.
That's it, and thanks for reading. As always, feedback is appreciated.
I like Exhume, but it is a mostly dedicated reanimator card. Even given that, I think it's better the Clique.
I like every colorless card you are cutting more than Perilous Myr and Reflecting Pool. Ring of Gix is my favorite, but really, I don't think I'd cut any of them at 450. Actually, now that I think about it, I'd try to run all of those card at 450 except Perilous Myr. I'd be more likely to expand the artifact section than cut those.
I like Exhume, but it is a mostly dedicated reanimator card. Even given that, I think it's better the Clique.
I like every colorless card you are cutting more than Perilous Myr and Reflecting Pool. Ring of Gix is my favorite, but really, I don't think I'd cut any of them at 450. Actually, now that I think about it, I'd try to run all of those card at 450 except Perilous Myr. I'd be more likely to expand the artifact section than cut those.
Cheers,
rant
Clique has been getting good maindeck time, which I can't say for Exhume. Exhume is clearly the more powerful card, but that's how it's been playing out.
Both Lodestone Golem and Memory Jar seem like they should be great but just never play out that way for us. Jar in particular is the biggest "not living up to its potential" culprit. Out of the universal cuts I personally like the razorcore the most, but I don't mind playing without it for a while to see if it'll be missed. I'm indifferent to Ring of Gix, I could take it or leave it.
After roughly six months of testing and crunching numbers I'm adding my latest cube update to MTGS. This update encompasses Theros, Commander 2013, and Born of the Gods, as well as other alterations. All in all 66 cards are leaving and 66 cards are coming in. My guilds have been refined in this update with most hybrids no longer competing for guild slots (which means a few more gold cards) and I've added an extra dual-land per guild. A few narrower cards are departing in favor of more cards with greater universality. Nowadays, I view changes in my cube less in terms of cuts and more in terms of rotation, so a few of the narrower cards that are departing now will likely return at some point, though it will be in dribs and drabs. These changes have been made carefully and with no small amount of testing and effort, with a particular focus on the overall curve, and with a harder heart than any of my previous updates.
Banisher Priest: Has been testing better than I expected, but isn't a must-keep by any stretch of the imagination. Precinct Captain: Already gone (next update). Inkwell Leviathan: I added it to try and give an extra big Artifact Creature for blue, but its future isn't looking bright. Repeal: Not un-cuttable, but serviceable. I dig a bit of bounce in my blue section, so it'll stay until I bore of it. Pain Seer: Already out. Curse of Predation: I've had good results with it (I'd give it a B grade). Would be my cut if I try out Birthing Pod again, or re-added Wolfir Avenger Venser, the Sojourner: Has been a lot of fun since being re-added. Burning-Tree Emissary: Another card I'd give a B grade to. Sigarda, Host of Herons: Already gone.
Subtractions
Catastrophe: I wanted to cut a 6+ CMC card in white, and it was rarely drafted. While I really like the card, I don't share the enthusiasm for it that some others on this forum do. Disenchant/Revoke Existence/Nature's Claim: I decided to go disenchant free for a little while to see how it would affect my drafts, and so far their loss hasn't made things any worse. Disenchant or Revoke could return in the near future, but I doubt I'd re-add both (though I'm undecided as to which). Ancestral Vision: Generally disliked. Vampire Lacerator: Black had six 2 power for one mana creatures and I felt that 5 was enough. Keldon Vandals: Is an o.k. creature with a good chance of returning if I feel the need to up my artifact kill in red. I strongly dislike the echo. Torch Fiend: Was mediocre. Devoted Druid: Never took off, and I have enough ramp. Phantom Centaur: Is on a really short list to return at some point since I like the creature quite a bit. Reflecting Pool: I added an extra suite of dual lands so the Pool felt unnecessary. Trygon Predator: I've always felt that Trygon Predator was overrated so I cut him to try Mystic Snake, which I also think is overrated, so who knows it'll probably be back at some point.
In a bubble Banisher Priest is what you say it is. In play it has been better than that, but to be fair I'm not giving it a glowing endorsement either, it's been serviceable.
I've already said that Inkwell Leviathan's future isn't looking bright, so the condescension isn't necessary. I'd like to think of myself as a peer on these boards rather than a pupil.
I'll also give strong consideration to your points regarding Ancestral Vision, but it always gets a cold reception from my playgroup.
Venser, the Sojourner has been playing just fine, if I go back down to three gold cards/guild (as I'm planning to do) than it will be the cut that I make.
Maybe I'm looking at Norn through the "cool-creature" goggles, so I'll take that into account as well.
The aggro in my cube has been as excellent as ever, so I'm still comfortable going without Vampire Lacerator. But, as with most of the cards in my on-deck binder, it has a good chance of returning if I feel that aggro needs a boost.
To be fair, saying that I think disenchant effects are unnecessary is putting words into my mouth (I am testing Sundering Growth after all). I make no such claim, but what I am doing is experimenting with how my cube would function without them and it hasn't been that big of a deal. I can only go by my experiences with the drafting of my cube, so I don't know what else to say.
I agree, and thanks for the clarification. And, to be fair, I'm not fully convinced that disenchants are "not necessary" myself, just that when they were removed it was far less of a tectonic shift in my cube balance than expected. The same is true for the artifact kill creatures in red. It's an experiment to see how many blocks could be removed from the Artifact/Enchantment destruction tower before it toppled, and it didn't topple.
I'm putting together a cube draft with only 270 cards, and then I'll add only 2 types of dual lands, already have the duals old and I'm in doubt between what other kind can add: Shock Lands and Fetch Lands?
1 Blade Splicer
1 Catastrophe
1 Journey to Nowhere
1 Mana Tithe
1 Restoration Angel
1 Seal of Cleansing
1 Sun Titan
//Blue//
1 Brainstorm
1 Condescend
1 Force Spike
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Morphling
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Ponder
1 Preordain
1 Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
1 Treachery
1 Coalition Relic
1 Everflowing Chalice
1 Mox Ruby
//Colorless//
1 Karn Liberated
//Gold//
1 Geist of Saint Traft
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Venser, the Sojourner
//Lands//
1 Celestial Colonnade
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Grand Coliseum
7 Island
6 Plains
WHITE
+ Temporal Isolation
- Sublime Archangel
I've been feeling a need for another spot removal card in white and Temporal Isolation, while not spectacular in this role, is more than adequate until a better option comes along. Sublime Archangel wasn't bad but didn't exactly knock my socks off either, and white has been feeling a bit heavy in the 4-drop department, so this isn't a particularly difficult cut.
BLUE
+ Ætherling
+ Coralhelm Commander
+ Into the Roil
- Gifts Ungiven
- Shelldock Isle
- Sphinx of Jwar Isle
Ætherling looks likes it's going to be a pretty fantastic control finisher, so the sphinx becomes redundant. My playgroup and I have always had positive experiences with Coralhelm Commander, and I like having a little bit of an aggro edge in my blue section, so I'm happy to bring him back. Into the Roil is being added because I've been feeling a need for a little more bounce in blue, so it makes a welcome return. I know that some people adore Shelldock Isle but we've never liked it much at all, so it's making another exit. Gifts Ungiven is a fine card, and could easily slip right back in at a later date, though I'm kind of indifferent to it so it isn't a tremendously difficult cut.
BLACK
+ Blood Scrivener
+ Kokusho, the Evening Star
+ Puppeteer Clique
- Exhume
- Liliana of the Dark Realms
- Living Death
I'm a little skeptical in regards to Blood Scrivener, but it should work well in black attrition decks, and is a zombie to boot. Kokusho returns because I've felt a need for another black finisher, and Puppeteer Clique is a card that my playgroup really likes so it returns as well. Devoted reanimator decks just aren't particularly popular with my group, so Exhume and Living Death are once again shown the door. Liliana 3 just didn't offer enough bang for the buck outside of heavy black decks, so she's out as well.
RED
+ Gore-house Chainwalker
+ Mizzium Mortars
+ Spikeshot Elder
- Ball Lightning
- Hearth Kami
- Pyroclasm
Gore-house Chainwalker ups the aggro quotient in my 2-drop section, and the returning Spikeshot Elder is a solid one drop. I'm going to give Mizzium Mortars another shot as both spot removal and sweeper in place of the rarely played Pyroclasm. I adore Ball Lightning but it just didn't fit, and Hearth Kami just hasn't felt that necessary since the appearance of Torch Fiend.
GREEN
+ Avacyn's Pilgrim
+ Vinelasher Kudzu
- Birthing Pod
- Naturalize
Avacyn's Pilgrim is a solid ramp creature, but is basically keeping Elvish Mystic's seat warm. Vinelasher Kudzu has been a lot of fun in testing, and my group likes it, so it's a welcome addition. Birthing Pod has been too inconsistent for my tastes, and Naturalize just felt redundant with green's other options.
UNIVERSAL
+ Coldsteel Heart
+ Dust Bowl
+ Perilous Myr
+ Reflecting Pool
- Lodestone Golem
- Memory Jar
- Razormane Masticore
- Ring of Gix
Coldsteel Heart is another solid mana-rock, Perilous Myr is a fun card that my group always liked, and Reflecting Pool is one of my favorite "fixers" so it returns from the cusp. I've had mixed results with Dust Bowl in the past, but its effect is potent enough to warrant another go. Lodestone Golem and Memory Jar always felt clunky from my groups experience so they're hitting the pine again. The "razorcore" is taking a hiatus even though I like it more than some, while Ring of Gix's echo cost has cast it into binder exile.
GUILD
+ Baleful Strix
+ Boros Reckoner
+ Huntmaster of the Fells
+ Ral Zarek
+ Voice of Resurgence
- Flinthoof Boar
- Loam Lion
- Prophetic Bolt
- Slayer's Stronghold
- Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
Boros: I want to try out Boros Reckoner, so I'm going to sideline the solid yet dispensable Slayer's Stronghold.
Dimir: I don't heavily support the "artifact deck" in blue, so it doesn't make much sense to include the Dimir Tezzeret over his superior mono-colored brother. Baleful Strix is a solid card that was well liked in its previous cube stint.
Gruul: Huntmaster has been garnering mostly glowing reviews on this site, so it's now my turn to give him a chance. Flinthoof Boar has been solid in its role but is cuttable, though I'm honestly not the biggest fan of Sarkhan Vol so it could return in the near future.
Izzet: Ral Zarek is pretty sweet, so his inclusion is a given. I asked my group which card that they prefered to keep and they decided that they preferred the cheaper Electrolyze over Prophetic Bolt.
Selesnya: Voice of Resurgence looks like it's going to be an excellent addition to W/G, and Loam Lion isn't as necessary in selesnya as Kird Ape is to Gruul.
That's it, and thanks for reading. As always, feedback is appreciated.
Cheers!
I like Exhume, but it is a mostly dedicated reanimator card. Even given that, I think it's better the Clique.
I like every colorless card you are cutting more than Perilous Myr and Reflecting Pool. Ring of Gix is my favorite, but really, I don't think I'd cut any of them at 450. Actually, now that I think about it, I'd try to run all of those card at 450 except Perilous Myr. I'd be more likely to expand the artifact section than cut those.
Cheers,
rant
My Cube
CubeCobra: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/5f5d0310ed602310515d4c32
Cube Tutor: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1963
Clique has been getting good maindeck time, which I can't say for Exhume. Exhume is clearly the more powerful card, but that's how it's been playing out.
Both Lodestone Golem and Memory Jar seem like they should be great but just never play out that way for us. Jar in particular is the biggest "not living up to its potential" culprit. Out of the universal cuts I personally like the razorcore the most, but I don't mind playing without it for a while to see if it'll be missed. I'm indifferent to Ring of Gix, I could take it or leave it.
Thanks for the feedback rant.
Cheers!
ADDITIONS
WHITE
+ Banisher Priest
+ Brimaz, King of Oreskos
+ Elspeth, Sun's Champion
+ Knight of Meadowgrain
+ Leonin Relic-Warder
+ Precinct Captain
+ Soldier of the Pantheon
+ Spear of Heliod
+ Unexpectedly Absent
BLUE
+ Cyclonic Rift
+ Inkwell Leviathan
+ Jace, Architect of Thought
+ Jace, Memory Adept
+ Repeal
+ True-Name Nemesis
BLACK
+ Chainer's Edict
+ Curse of Shallow Graves
+ Griselbrand
+ Herald of Torment
+ Hero's Downfall
+ Lifebane Zombie
+ Living Death
+ Massacre Wurm
+ Ophiomancer
+ Pain Seer
+ Tormented Hero
+ Toxic Deluge
RED
+ Brimstone Volley
+ Firedrinker Satyr
+ Hell's Thunder
+ Lightning Strike
+ Mizzium Mortars
+ Searing Blaze
+ Tempt With Vengeance
GREEN
+ Boon Satyr
+ Courser of Kruphix
+ Curse of Predation
+ Polukranos, World Eater
+ Rampaging Baloths
+ Sylvan Caryatid
+ Ulvenwald Tracker
UNIVERSAL
+ Dust Bowl
+ Gaea's Cradle
+ Powder Keg
+ Razormane Masticore
+ Tolarian Academy
GUILD
+ Venser, the Sojourner
+ Glacial Fortress
+ Battlefield Forge
+ Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
+ Drowned Catacomb
+ Llanowar Wastes
+ Burning-Tree Emissary
+ Copperline Gorge
+ Xenagos, the Reveler
+ Shivan Reef
+ Caves of Koilos
+ Blackcleave Cliffs
+ Fulminator Mage
+ Olivia Voldaren
+ Knight of the Reliquary
+ Sigarda, Host of Herons
+ Sundering Growth
+ Kiora, the Crashing wave
+ Mystic Snake
+ Yavimaya Coast
SUBTRACTIONS
WHITE
- Ajani, Caller of the Pride
- Catastrophe
- Cloistered Youth
- Disenchant
- Entreat the Angels
- Exalted Angel
- Mistral Charger
- Revoke Existence
- Seal of Cleansing
- Stormfront Pegasus
- Terminus
BLUE
- Ancestral Vision
- Gilded Drake
- Impulse
- Morphling
- Spellskite
- Waterfront Bouncer
BLACK
- Blood Scrivener
- Bone Shredder
- Contagion
- Contamination
- Despise
- Doom Blade
- Liliana's Specter
- Nezumi Graverobber
- Ob Nixilis, the Fallen
- Reassembling Skeleton
- Shadowborn Demon
- Sheoldred, Whispering One
- Vampire Lacerator
- Yawgmoth's Will
RED
- Chandra's Phoenix
- Devil's Play
- Fireslinger
- Hearth Kami
- Keldon Vandals
- Slagstorm
- Squee, Goblin Nabob
- Stonewright
- Torch Fiend
- Wildfire
GREEN
- Deadbridge Goliath
- Devoted Druid
- Ice Storm
- Jungle Lion
- Life From the Loam
- Nature's Claim
- Phantom Centaur
- Vinelasher Kudzu
- Wolfbitten Captive
- Worldly Tutor
UNIVERSAL
- Coldsteel Heart
- Crucible of Worlds
- Grand Coliseum
- Icy Manipulator
- Lightning Greaves
- Masticore
- Reflecting Pool
- Scroll Rack
- Triskelion
- Undiscovered Paradise
GUILD
- Azorius Charm
- Psychatog
- Kird Ape
- Simic Sky Swallower
- Trygon Predator
Cheers!
Additions
Banisher Priest: Has been testing better than I expected, but isn't a must-keep by any stretch of the imagination.
Precinct Captain: Already gone (next update).
Inkwell Leviathan: I added it to try and give an extra big Artifact Creature for blue, but its future isn't looking bright.
Repeal: Not un-cuttable, but serviceable. I dig a bit of bounce in my blue section, so it'll stay until I bore of it.
Pain Seer: Already out.
Curse of Predation: I've had good results with it (I'd give it a B grade). Would be my cut if I try out Birthing Pod again, or re-added Wolfir Avenger
Venser, the Sojourner: Has been a lot of fun since being re-added.
Burning-Tree Emissary: Another card I'd give a B grade to.
Sigarda, Host of Herons: Already gone.
Subtractions
Catastrophe: I wanted to cut a 6+ CMC card in white, and it was rarely drafted. While I really like the card, I don't share the enthusiasm for it that some others on this forum do.
Disenchant/Revoke Existence/Nature's Claim: I decided to go disenchant free for a little while to see how it would affect my drafts, and so far their loss hasn't made things any worse. Disenchant or Revoke could return in the near future, but I doubt I'd re-add both (though I'm undecided as to which).
Ancestral Vision: Generally disliked.
Vampire Lacerator: Black had six 2 power for one mana creatures and I felt that 5 was enough.
Keldon Vandals: Is an o.k. creature with a good chance of returning if I feel the need to up my artifact kill in red. I strongly dislike the echo.
Torch Fiend: Was mediocre.
Devoted Druid: Never took off, and I have enough ramp.
Phantom Centaur: Is on a really short list to return at some point since I like the creature quite a bit.
Reflecting Pool: I added an extra suite of dual lands so the Pool felt unnecessary.
Trygon Predator: I've always felt that Trygon Predator was overrated so I cut him to try Mystic Snake, which I also think is overrated, so who knows it'll probably be back at some point.
I've already said that Inkwell Leviathan's future isn't looking bright, so the condescension isn't necessary. I'd like to think of myself as a peer on these boards rather than a pupil.
In regards to Repeal,Curse of Predation, Burning-Tree Emissary,Reflecting Pool,Keldon Vandals, and Devoted Druid you make good points so I'll give those changes some strong considerations.
I'll also give strong consideration to your points regarding Ancestral Vision, but it always gets a cold reception from my playgroup.
Venser, the Sojourner has been playing just fine, if I go back down to three gold cards/guild (as I'm planning to do) than it will be the cut that I make.
Maybe I'm looking at Norn through the "cool-creature" goggles, so I'll take that into account as well.
The aggro in my cube has been as excellent as ever, so I'm still comfortable going without Vampire Lacerator. But, as with most of the cards in my on-deck binder, it has a good chance of returning if I feel that aggro needs a boost.
To be fair, saying that I think disenchant effects are unnecessary is putting words into my mouth (I am testing Sundering Growth after all). I make no such claim, but what I am doing is experimenting with how my cube would function without them and it hasn't been that big of a deal. I can only go by my experiences with the drafting of my cube, so I don't know what else to say.
As always, thanks for the feedback eidolon.
Cheers!
I'm putting together a cube draft with only 270 cards, and then I'll add only 2 types of dual lands, already have the duals old and I'm in doubt between what other kind can add: Shock Lands and Fetch Lands?
I know the Shock Lands are interesting by adding two colors of mana but Fetch has great synergy with some of the cards from the cube as Sun Titan, Brainstorm, Grim Lavamancer, Tarmogoyf, Life from the Loam, Crucible of Worlds, among others .. .
Can you help me with this question? Which would you choose?
Thank you!
Bullywug, I did two drafts of your cube recently:
http://cubetutor.com/cubedeck/119391;jsessionid=3FE383EEFDC466465C59ADC2315C5AC6]
http://cubetutor.com/cubedeck/119397;jsessionid=3FE383EEFDC466465C59ADC2315C5AC6]
I'm mad at myself for saving the first deck before I did the lands. The second deck looks like a monster to me. I really want to play it!
Cheers,
rant
My Cube
CubeCobra: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/5f5d0310ed602310515d4c32
Cube Tutor: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1963
Another question: I was thinking of cutting Cultivate and Kodama's Reach and Natural Order and maintain only:
1 Worldly Tutor
1 Regrowth
1 Survival of the Fittest
1 Sylvan Library
1 Garruk Wildspeaker
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Green Sun's Zenith
What do you think? Change anything if I had to keep only 10 spells?