Willbender wasn't hot. Since casting it off turn 3 isn't a good idea most of the time (no mana open for counters and will prolly get killed on the spot for 2cc spell), players end up casting it on their fifth turn. However, on the fifth turn they can just drop an uncountered fat and win, or be in a better winning board-position anyway. People don't need targeted spells to win. So, preferably, you'll have another two-mana counter open. Even then, you won't be able to reflect any removal, because that flashbacked Firebolt doesn't kill any of their creatures, especially with the abundance of shroud, protection and blackcreatures.
If the effect was as devastating as you present it, I would have preferred to play Swerve.
I'll try to post the second part soon.
EDIT -
Quote from Antknee42 »
How many other morphs do you have? (I'm not going thru the list and counting, I figure you should know)
I've toned down the number of morphs in this update, so I really don't know now. However, no one plays differently if they see a morph with the mana open. The chance it'll screw them is so low they can (and should) ignore it completely.
The morph creatures I play now are the ones I think good enough even without the "morph bluff", with morph tacked on as means of triggered abilities that generate card advantage or to cheat creaures into play at a lower mana cost.
Quote from Wermine »
I also have a problem with colored mana costs in my cube. Everything costs WW or 1WW. Many times when we winston draft, I have cards like 1CCC, 2DD and 3EE, which makes my mana base horrible. I'm actively trying to cut heavily colored cards for lighter ones.
That's what I try to do. I know I sacrifice powerlevel, but I think it makes the cube more fun. Really, with all those great WW creatures, you do feel a bit forced to a white aggro archetype.
-Crosis's Charm
While this charm is playable, we have...
+Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
which is twelve times more exciting, and could prolly win the game on it's own if he gets down. Bonus point for being a planeswalker.
+Undermine
UB likes it better. It may be a lot harder to play, and it's effect isn't as good, that why I've avoided it so far. I'll try it for now, but I don't have high hopes.
-Goblin Trenches
That gets you goblin, but the price to start making them is high.
+Blightning
It seems I'm wrong and this is good, so I'll include it. I'll always add improvements to aggro, they are the basis to raising the overall powerlevel.
-Nucklavee
As much as I liked it in theory, it never recurred two cards. It's impossible to cast it and the spell it recurs in the same turn, so this is better out, at least for now.
+Call the Skybreaker
Many cube owners praised this, so I'll try it. You rarely miss, my fellow large cube owners.
Wait, I've got another five extra multicolored slots, right?
It's as strictly better as I can possibly get in a cube update. New cards usually don't explicitly override older cards in all situations. Uncounterability is much more relevant than Fireball's diving ability, therefore it's "better", though the situations for each to shine are different.
Do you have a small cube? In a large cube you cannot afford not to play them at all (I haven't seen any large cube that did). Broodmate Dragon, Nicol Bolas, Lightning Angel and Rafiq of the Many are good cards that saw more play than some of my monocolored cards. More important, they are fun to play with. In a small cube I wouldn't bother, but in my cube I don't think I can completely discard them all. Doran is a step in the right direction, though.
Why do you have Memory Jar on the chopping block? Too powerful?
I don't know Metamind's reasoning, but the card has done basically nothing for us around here. I've had it in and out of cube pretty much the entire time I've played this format, and it has seen extremely little play. It, and Yawgmoth's Will are meant for either decks that have Rituals or other fast mana to abuse, or they are meant to be played in the ridiculously late game to be fully abused. Everytime I thought about playing Memory Jar, I felt like I may get 2-3 cards out of it (a land and one or two spells), but my opponent will also get "free" answer cards as well (granted, they will likely need to be instants) so it's not quite as direct card advantage. Basically it just never felt like it was going to be worth it in my deck when I had the possibility of including it.
I don't know Metamind's reasoning, but the card has done basically nothing for us around here. I've had it in and out of cube pretty much the entire time I've played this format, and it has seen extremely little play. It, and Yawgmoth's Will are meant for either decks that have Rituals or other fast mana to abuse, or they are meant to be played in the ridiculously late game to be fully abused. Everytime I thought about playing Memory Jar, I felt like I may get 2-3 cards out of it (a land and one or two spells), but my opponent will also get "free" answer cards as well (granted, they will likely need to be instants) so it's not quite as direct card advantage. Basically it just never felt like it was going to be worth it in my deck when I had the possibility of including it.
Play it in aggro, not control. Try it in mono-red sometime. Burn, burn, burn, burn, burn, jar. Watch opponent cry.
Yeah, fast aggro is great with Jar, particularly since the Jar is probably one of the higher costed card in your deck (so you basically have built in synergy). You often get to play multiple dudes/burn/pumps, while your opponent can probably play just 1 instant or so.
It also is great for getting stuff into the yard for recursion/threshold/flashback/whatever. Also, it's colourless, and therefore, much easier to accelerate out.
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Memory Jar is a key part of my cube's reanimator strategy...Reanimator often just needs one more piece, and memory jar will always get that piece. Plus, it can discard fatties.
I was facing this one guy last week. I had memory jar and Putrid Imp on the field, and Stitch Together in my hand. On his turn I pop the jar, Slaughter Pact something, and give my imp flying 6 times. Then next turn I pay for the pact and activate Stitch Together with threshold reviving the Hellkite Overlord I'd discarded last turn.
Nitpick: Replacing Blaze with Banefire would be a strict improvement. Fireball is strictly better than Banefire versus a deck with no countermagic.
Nitpick: What about damage prevention? It is not strictly better than Fireball, in exact terms.
I still can't disagree with you more about Willbender. Thinking it is a 3-drop is inexcusable, and do you just not have targeted effects or spells in your cube? If your opponents aren't considering a Willbender when you have a morph in play and the mana up, then well, that should make it even better. We're just gonna have to agree to disagree on that one.
I also don't agree on the non-inclusion of 3-color cards. There are some that are very good, and you need to be super-selective about what you do add. You want the mana trouble to be worth it, not just some effect you can get in a different card that is easier/cheaper to cast. Lots of people just put in 3-color cards cause they like them, and then wonder why they aren't any good.
Call the Skybreaker is solid. i got wrecked by it. (a few retraces and it is time to scoop it up)
I've never heard anything bad about it (except for it's art), and that's a sign of a good card. Azorious Guildmage is good, but it really is just a white card in disguise. Augustin is solid, and after that everything is quite bad. U is a bad color at multicolored.
I agree with Kenny's thoughts about Memory Jar. It has a lot of potential, that's why it's still in there for now, but if nothing changes it'll get cut next update.
I actually like Memory Jar, it's not as overpowered as it was in constructed, its an artifact (so anyone can play it, and it works with Tezzeret), and it's not even really an auto first pick. I'm a fan of this card. It's versatile and not completely unfair.
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I also include discussions about cards we took out, cards we banned, and cards we might add.
I don't see how it's so good. Without the ability to return the lands, it basically only accelerates you for 1 while losing you one card in the process. Sol Ring is the same amount of card disadvantage, but it accelerates you by 2. The Mox Diamond is basically a "put a land from your hand into play".
How is Sol Ring card disadvantage at all? I fail to see this.
Mox Diamond is a fantastic card, but I'm not sure it works well in Cube. Having a man of any color in addition to your land drop on turn one is pretty brutal.
I don't see how it's so good. Without the ability to return the lands, it basically only accelerates you for 1 while losing you one card in the process. Sol Ring is the same amount of card disadvantage, but it accelerates you by 2. The Mox Diamond is basically a "put a land from your hand into play".
Even if you can't return the lands... you answered your own question. It accelerates you by 1. One mana of any color mind you. So, in an aggro deck, you play your 2 drop on T1, your 3 drop on T2... I fail to see how this card isn't busted. Just because you have to pitch a land? IMO it's even better than Chrome Mox because with the Chrome, you're losing gas, not land.
Not only is the card great on paper, but it preforms like an all-star too. There are probably closer to 8 or 9 cards that I may draft over the Mox Diamond for 1st pick, but if I don't take it, it won't be there the 2nd time around.
Now, you can't compare it to Sol Ring, because they're 2 different cards. Sol Ring sets you up for turn 2 or turn 3, etc... whereas Mox Diamond sets you up for the 1st turn.
And no... it's not "put a land from your hand into play" it's "discard any land to put a 2nd mana source on the table that you can tap for 1 mana of any color... a turn earlier than you should be able to.
I wanted to say that both Mox Diamond and Sol Ring cost you one card, so I used the term card disadvantage. It's not really true, I admit. But the fact remains that Mox Diamond just isn't so great.
If the effect was as devastating as you present it, I would have preferred to play Swerve.
I'll try to post the second part soon.
EDIT - I've toned down the number of morphs in this update, so I really don't know now. However, no one plays differently if they see a morph with the mana open. The chance it'll screw them is so low they can (and should) ignore it completely.
The morph creatures I play now are the ones I think good enough even without the "morph bluff", with morph tacked on as means of triggered abilities that generate card advantage or to cheat creaures into play at a lower mana cost.
That's what I try to do. I know I sacrifice powerlevel, but I think it makes the cube more fun. Really, with all those great WW creatures, you do feel a bit forced to a white aggro archetype.
The list on cube cobra
Read my blog on cube - Latest post June 2nd 2022
- Rathi Dragon
a) The lands have to be mountains.
b) It's just too dangerous in a format with so many removals.
+ Rakka Mar
Seems like a huge source of card advantage.
- Fissure, +Fiery Fall
Fissure costs a lot. Fiery Fall fills the role of red heavy removal while useful early on.
-Fireball, +Banefire
The definition of strict improvement is this.
-Smash to Smithereens
It's good when you face artifacts, but isn't playable when not. Overall, too conditional.
+Hellspark Elemental
Great option for aggro.
-Shard Volley
Sacrificing a land is too much for this lowly burn spell.
+ Hissing Iguanar
Broken in alara drafts, and fills the red three-drop nicely.
-Furystoke Giant
The tokens colors are white and green, not red.
+Tahngarth, Talruum Hero
Damage on a stick. A bit small for it's cost, but whatever.
-Kird Ape, -Orcish Lumberjack
They both move to the gold section
+Skizzik, +Blistering Firecat
All the similar effects were good, so this will prolly be as well.
Green
I haven't seen the previous update well enough to see if green as a whole got stronger. The updates here are just a few unconnected upgrades.
-Boreal Druid, +Noble Hierarch
That's the first. Again, if this isn't pure upgrade nothing is.
-Naturalize, +Nantuko Vigilante
How did I miss a naturalize on a stick?
-Granger Guildmage
Low impact.
+Thornling
Awesome. This is a fattie you can count on to do the job.
-Crop Rotation
Few lands deserve that card disadvantage.
+Shard Convergence
This card gets a lot of card advantage, so it might be worth it.
-Quirion Ranger
Extremely narrow. Isn't worth the slot.
+Hermit Druid
Card advantage and milling on this guy seems nice.
-Grizzly Fate
It's so not easy to get threshold in my cube.
+Cliffrunner Behemoth
Powerful, splashable fattie.
Multicolored
-Doran, the Siege Tower
Three colored cards that aren't that good turn 5 shouldn't make the cut.
+Shambling Remains
Gouger taught us that
-Crosis's Charm
While this charm is playable, we have...
+Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
which is twelve times more exciting, and could prolly win the game on it's own if he gets down. Bonus point for being a planeswalker.
-Inkfathom Infiltrator
That's not the color pair for aggro. Unplayable.
+Countersquall
I wanted to try Negate for some time. This seems solid.
-Moroii
UB doesn't like those aggro critters
+Undermine
UB likes it better. It may be a lot harder to play, and it's effect isn't as good, that why I've avoided it so far. I'll try it for now, but I don't have high hopes.
-Dromar's Charm
Playable, but barely so.
+Ethersworn Adjudicator
The effect is more powerful if it gets going. This will prolly be cut until the end of the year. For now though, I'll try it.
-Wrecking Ball
Too slow. Fissure was cut, this meets a similar fate.
+Blazing Specter
Seems like a hell to deal with.
-Goblin Trenches
That gets you goblin, but the price to start making them is high.
+Blightning
It seems I'm wrong and this is good, so I'll include it. I'll always add improvements to aggro, they are the basis to raising the overall powerlevel.
-Deus of Calamity, +Apocalypse Hydra
upgrade. Never liked Deus.
-Nucklavee
As much as I liked it in theory, it never recurred two cards. It's impossible to cast it and the spell it recurs in the same turn, so this is better out, at least for now.
+Call the Skybreaker
Many cube owners praised this, so I'll try it. You rarely miss, my fellow large cube owners.
Wait, I've got another five extra multicolored slots, right?
+Desolation Angel, +Kird Ape, +Orcish Lumberjack, +Wild Nacatl
They moved from their respective colored sections.
+Court Hussar
Wanted to add it in for a long time. UW has bad multicolored cards, so I'll try this one.
Artifacts
-Mana Crypt
We hate the coin flipping and randomness.
+Erratic Portal
Screw it, if I expect it to come in anyway, why not to put it in there now?
I decided to keep Memory Jar in for now, but it's still on the chopping block.
Lands -
I didn't stop by changing only ten land slots.
-Krosan Verge
Too slow to be effective
+Ancient Ziggurat
I think it has potential to be used in two-colored heavy-creatures decks. If not, I'll cut it.
-Tolarian Academy, +Shelldock Isle
No, I still think it's subpar but it's that much less narrow, I'll even include it back.
The list on cube cobra
Read my blog on cube - Latest post June 2nd 2022
Nitpick: Replacing Blaze with Banefire would be a strict improvement. Fireball is strictly better than Banefire versus a deck with no countermagic.
My secondary "cube".
Really out of date cube thread with pictures.
I also include discussions about cards we took out, cards we banned, and cards we might add.
So, opinions about the update?
The list on cube cobra
Read my blog on cube - Latest post June 2nd 2022
I also include discussions about cards we took out, cards we banned, and cards we might add.
The list on cube cobra
Read my blog on cube - Latest post June 2nd 2022
Call the Skybreaker[/card] is solid. i got wrecked by it. (a few retraces and it is time to scoop it up)
EDIT: i also agree that UW cards mostly suck. Besides like Mirrorweave, the other stuff is just meh.
Opm's Cube on MTGS
Wife's Etsy Store (Hair Accessories for Girls)
I do have a small cube. You can check it out here:
http://cubedrafting.blogspot.com
I also include discussions about cards we took out, cards we banned, and cards we might add.
I don't know Metamind's reasoning, but the card has done basically nothing for us around here. I've had it in and out of cube pretty much the entire time I've played this format, and it has seen extremely little play. It, and Yawgmoth's Will are meant for either decks that have Rituals or other fast mana to abuse, or they are meant to be played in the ridiculously late game to be fully abused. Everytime I thought about playing Memory Jar, I felt like I may get 2-3 cards out of it (a land and one or two spells), but my opponent will also get "free" answer cards as well (granted, they will likely need to be instants) so it's not quite as direct card advantage. Basically it just never felt like it was going to be worth it in my deck when I had the possibility of including it.
(list not current)
My Cube Google Docs Spreadsheet: https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AibgWfz0ukmOdDNhOHlucjcxUi1wVy00NDhLbDUtUlE&hl=en_US#gid=8
(list is always current)
My secondary "cube".
Really out of date cube thread with pictures.
It also is great for getting stuff into the yard for recursion/threshold/flashback/whatever. Also, it's colourless, and therefore, much easier to accelerate out.
Check out my pauper cube!
and thanks to PurpleD @ [<--- Left Play Design <---] for making this awesome banner!
Limited is awesome, join us at [Limited]!
I was facing this one guy last week. I had memory jar and Putrid Imp on the field, and Stitch Together in my hand. On his turn I pop the jar, Slaughter Pact something, and give my imp flying 6 times. Then next turn I pay for the pact and activate Stitch Together with threshold reviving the Hellkite Overlord I'd discarded last turn.
Currently 62/265 cards.
Nitpick: What about damage prevention? It is not strictly better than Fireball, in exact terms.
I still can't disagree with you more about Willbender. Thinking it is a 3-drop is inexcusable, and do you just not have targeted effects or spells in your cube? If your opponents aren't considering a Willbender when you have a morph in play and the mana up, then well, that should make it even better. We're just gonna have to agree to disagree on that one.
I also don't agree on the non-inclusion of 3-color cards. There are some that are very good, and you need to be super-selective about what you do add. You want the mana trouble to be worth it, not just some effect you can get in a different card that is easier/cheaper to cast. Lots of people just put in 3-color cards cause they like them, and then wonder why they aren't any good.
-AA
I use descriptive language. Assume that I'm being nice and respectful. (I'll tell you when I'm not.)
My Cube: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/9029
I've never heard anything bad about it (except for it's art), and that's a sign of a good card.
Azorious Guildmage is good, but it really is just a white card in disguise. Augustin is solid, and after that everything is quite bad. U is a bad color at multicolored.
I agree with Kenny's thoughts about Memory Jar. It has a lot of potential, that's why it's still in there for now, but if nothing changes it'll get cut next update.
The list on cube cobra
Read my blog on cube - Latest post June 2nd 2022
I also include discussions about cards we took out, cards we banned, and cards we might add.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
That is in my top FIVE overall pics. Did it get cut because it was too good? The Diamond has been outstanding in our cube.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Diamond is okay but top five overall? More like 5th pick imo.
My secondary "cube".
Really out of date cube thread with pictures.
How is Sol Ring card disadvantage at all? I fail to see this.
Mox Diamond is a fantastic card, but I'm not sure it works well in Cube. Having a man of any color in addition to your land drop on turn one is pretty brutal.
Cheers,
rant
My Cube
CubeCobra: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/5f5d0310ed602310515d4c32
Cube Tutor: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1963
I also include discussions about cards we took out, cards we banned, and cards we might add.
Even if you can't return the lands... you answered your own question. It accelerates you by 1. One mana of any color mind you. So, in an aggro deck, you play your 2 drop on T1, your 3 drop on T2... I fail to see how this card isn't busted. Just because you have to pitch a land? IMO it's even better than Chrome Mox because with the Chrome, you're losing gas, not land.
Not only is the card great on paper, but it preforms like an all-star too. There are probably closer to 8 or 9 cards that I may draft over the Mox Diamond for 1st pick, but if I don't take it, it won't be there the 2nd time around.
Now, you can't compare it to Sol Ring, because they're 2 different cards. Sol Ring sets you up for turn 2 or turn 3, etc... whereas Mox Diamond sets you up for the 1st turn.
And no... it's not "put a land from your hand into play" it's "discard any land to put a 2nd mana source on the table that you can tap for 1 mana of any color... a turn earlier than you should be able to.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Mox Diamond costs you two cards...
My secondary "cube".
Really out of date cube thread with pictures.