Darksteel Collosus isn't playable in nearly every deck - you cannot count on three cards in a large cube.
I actually have been thinking about this recently. I have an 800 card cube, and Colossus is very rarely played w/o Tinker or Tooth. You can always get a Sundering Titan for a similar, if not better effect, but Titan is much better on it's own than Colossus.
I actually have been thinking about this recently. I have an 800 card cube, and Colossus is very rarely played w/o Tinker or Tooth. You can always get a Sundering Titan for a similar, if not better effect, but Titan is much better on it's own than Colossus.
I've always been wondering about the Collosus in your cube. (Do you play the Sundering Titan or not? Not clear from your post. If not, it's definitely better. Also, the ability to reanimate it is a great factor in it's playability).
I've always been wondering about the Collosus in your cube. (Do you play the Sundering Titan or not? Not clear from your post. If not, it's definitely better. Also, the ability to reanimate it is a great factor in it's playability).
Yes, I do indeed have a Titan in there. I will likely be removing Colossus when I do a Conflux update as he is very underwhelming outside of the "combo" with Tinker.
I actually don't own a Darksteel Colossus, but now that you mention it, it may not be worth the $10+ I would have to spend/trade to get it. After all, 11 mana is pretty steep and without Tinker (which honestly is a card I dislike), it's not that exciting. Titan on the other hand is always ridiculously good.
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I also include discussions about cards we took out, cards we banned, and cards we might add.
Does anyone have an artifact to replace Memory Jar? I have been searching these forums for appealing artifacts I don't play or had already tried and didn't find anything.
Memory Jar is just a bit too narrow. If I can't find something to replace it it'll stay, but I do wish for a broad card instead.
Man-o-War is a solid creature. With the right cards its just ridiculous (ie. w/ a crystal shard). As for other blue creatures, I'm a big fan of vesuvan shapeshifter.
My cube actually has Fog Bank and Wall of Tears. These two cards can stop an aggro deck and buy the blue player time to stabilize. I don't see these two walls in any other cubes.
Memory Jar isn't horrible, I'm just wondering if there is a possibility for a better artifact in his place. In your list, cards I haven't tried yet are:
Trip Noose
Oblivion Stone
Staff of Domination
Coldsteel Heart
Temporal Aperture
Prolly Trip Noose is the most solid card of them all.
Thanks for your help, but I'm already playing them all since the beginning (except for Shapesharer).
Quote from hardb0dy »
My cube actually has Fog Bank and Wall of Tears. These two cards can stop an aggro deck and buy the blue player time to stabilize. I don't see these two walls in any other cubes.
I've considered them, but:
a) Walls aren't fun/interesting to play with and against. I only play Wall of Roots, and only because green ramp decks are weak
b) They are too strong against aggro strategies
Memory Jar isn't horrible, I'm just wondering if there is a possibility for a better artifact in his place. In your list, cards I haven't tried yet are:
Trip Noose
Oblivion Stone
Staff of Domination
Coldsteel Heart
Temporal Aperture
Trip Noose is solid, I assume Icy Manipulator is already in your cube, cause that's a little better than that.
I like Oblivion Stone, but more in EDH than in cube.
Staff of Domination requires a lot of mana, but I like it a lot in green decks, they have the acceleration to get the mana fast and they can really use untap target creature and draw a card.
I also like Memory Jar together with something like Cerebral Vortex ;-)
Edit: after looking at your list in post number 1, I'd cut the Sigil of Distinction. I don't see the following cards: Crystal shard it's a good card Erratic Portal this one can even be used in any deck Quicksilver Amulet Sundering titan turn 5 ? it doesn't cost you more, just 2 turns of mana ;-) Sphere of Resistance Aggro will like this Winter Orb Anti-control Duplicant 6 colorless to remove any targettable creature + you'll most likely get a decent creature Pyrite Spellbomb Red needs a way to draw a card somtimes, this is the one that may help you out in those situations. The Rack If black is running a little discard theme, they'll like this. Ankh of Mishra Another aggro card. When your opponent goes Mountain, Mox Ruby, Ankh, you're in trouble ! Karn, Silver Golem Jitte is sooo annoying, this guy makes you able to Shock that Jitte ;-)
It's in my blue section since it proved playable only in blue decks
Edit: after looking at your list in post number 1, I'd cut the Sigil of Distinction. I don't see the following cards:
I just added Sigil of Distinction, and I think it has a lot of potential. It turns every creature into a deadly threat, and many creature have evasion.
Duplicant6 colorless to remove any targettable creature + you'll mostly get a decent creature
Good catch. I've been playing that all the time, but it wasn't listed here. Fixed.
But when there are no artifacts, it's just a 4/4 for 5. And even if there is an artifact, it requires another removal spell.
About Karn : Well, animating an equipped Jitte makes it fall off, since a creature can't be attached to another creture, that's good enough already imo.
There's many more uses, like killing enemy moxes and blocking with useless acceleration artifacts ;-) I also like Karn + Darksteel Ingot.
There's more use for the guy than you'd think. There's always some other artifact lying around ..
But hey, I'm not making your cube, this was my advise, hope it helps
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Man-o'-War or Sower for sure. They're excellent cards for any tempo based strategy. I love stacking my cube with CIP effects.
Though Palinchron is nice if you have the stuff to combo with him...high tide, heartbeat, etc.
Palinchron is flat-out ridiculous. It comes down and leaves mana open for a counter, its own rescue ability, or another spell. Yeah, it's at its most broken with mana acceleration like you mention, but it really is always good. The Urza land untap mechanic is broken and most of the cards that have it are really good. I once got to play Treachery on a creature and then untap into a Bribery (I forget what I used the Treachery for, but I nabbed a Yosei with the Bribery).
What do you think is better: Aven Squire or Mistral Charger? If they are alone they attack for equal damage, but if you attack with another creature alone than probably Aven Squire is better and if you attack with two or more creatures Mistral Charger is better.
I decided to criticize my latest update in every new update from now on. It hasn't been a lot of time since my last update, but a few cards have already shown their worth. Phantom Nishoba proved to be fun, exiting and powerful. Arashi saw a lot of play, and while not as exciting, certainly as strong. Crater Hellion is a bomb, has an immediate effect on the board and a large body for it's cost. Crovax, Ascendant Hero gets in for the second time, and it was surprisingly more powerful now. Farhaven Elf was solid, Rhox Charger was solid and Weatherseed Treefolk saw play despite the difficult cost. No card that had been cut was missing so far.
So, unlike my usual updates I'll begin from the bottom up. I made a major change to my land section. I've been planning cutting five more lands for more than three months, and I finally did it. I added all those five slots in my multicolored section, because I think that area had the most untapped potential. This also gave me the space to move some of my pseudo-mono cards to their rightful place.
- Lake of the Dead
Too slow and didn't do a lot in the long run.
- Mishra's Workshop
Never seems to do anything. It has been played once, but really a deck cannot count on drafting that high number of artifacts to make this worthy.
Aditionally, I decided to replace all my cycling lands with the vivids. The cycling lands are easily playable, but they aren't exciting, the need to support my growing multicolored section and the player's demand are the reasons to this change.
This change alone will significantly change my cube, but that's far from all. This update contains 47(!) cards, by far the largest I've ever made.
White:
- Scourglass
A weak Wrath effect. Nowhere near Disk.
+Martial Scoop
That's an amazing tempo boost. I don't think it wins games on it's own, but it's certainly strong and exciting.
- Samurai of the Pale Curtain
It always seems to be the worst 2/2 for WW creature. Once every few games (less than once in a draft) the graveyard hose effect will be awesome, but we've got a better card for that by far.
+Traumatic Visions
Seems perfect for blue. Cheap instant speed fixing + thinning or a counter (though expensive, a large part of the times it won't matter).
-Maelstrom Djinn, +Esperzoa
An upgrade IMO. With all the moxen I can see Esperzoa easily played, and she's huge for her cost.
-Brine Elemental
Morph as a theme isn't strong enough for our cube. Brine Elemental has a low impact outside of that theme.
+Old Man of the Sea
Again, trying to improve my blue creatures. Steal effect have proven good, repetition is desirable as well. Steals only small creatures, but still worth a try. I mean, Threads of Disloyalty is easily playable, so why not?
-Gush
The tempo disadvantage is way too severe. Was never more than a five mana Inspiration.
+Waterfront Bouncer
Not the best, but a few players really wanted it. It's still better than the card Iv'e just cut, but I expect it to get out again before the end of the year.
-Intuition
Gifts is good, but the effect is still narrow and I don't need that many.
+Jace Beleren
I still don't like it, but:
a) Player's demand. Since when do I listen to them?
b) I probably underrate it
c) Planeswalker's have style in their veins. I just need to play them all. They are fun, they are thrilling and they add more decisions to the game.
d) The new arts rock (the old art is also cool, but not as much).
e) I have the space anyway
Black
-Bone Splinters, +Ashes to Ashes
Upgrade. Saccing a critter was harder than I thought it would, Ashes to Ashes is a huge tempo and card advantage.
-Putrid Imp, +Rotting Rats
Upgrade. Since you almost never need the discard in your very first turn, and discarding two cards is usually enough, the broader card wins here.
-Grim Tutor
We don't have combos, and this is slow, expensive and painful. Was bad when used.
+Silent Specter
Even without a morph theme, this seems good.
-Choking Sands
It's playable, but the number of nonbasics lands goes down, and their importance becomes greater. Wasn't that good anyway.
Agree with all of those. A shame to see a card like Workshop being cut but it's probably correct. I wouldn't know, i don't have that kind of expensive cards.
Too narrow. It's too hard to get the critical mass of artifacts for this card to work.
Time Spiral over Time Twister is interesting, but probably correct. However, even more correct would be to run them both imo. Drawing 7 cards for 3 mana is just so powerful, i would never cut that.
Willbender never works, but so doesn't Quicksilver Dragon. It is a fat flyer if that's what you are searching for but don't expect it's ability to be relevant ever.
Not searching for a fat flier, but a hard-to-deal with evasive finisher. I didn't think his ability would matter.
I agree with the rest of the changes. You'll be surprised how good Jace really is. I also didn't like him at the beginning - until i played with him. He's good.
I had played against him though, and he was very subpar and unexciting (in hand of a good player as well. Maybe his strategy with Jace was flawed. How do you all play with it?).
Very much agree with all of these. Bone Splinters have been good for me and i think Putrid Imp is worth another look, but all in all this update provides a huge improvement to your black section. Ashes to Ashes looks interesting, i'll see if i have one lying around. If you are not already running it, Rancid Earth is a very good replacement for Choking Sands.
There is a limit how many narrow cards I can play to push a single theme, and I don't want to come to the point where players feel forced to play reanimator. It's strong enough as is.
Given that, I think Rotting Rats are better and so deserve replacing it.
Willbender never works?!? Are you just playing it as a 3 drop creature in your curve? I am astounded by this statement, and it seems like there must be something wrong...
How many other morphs do you have? (I'm not going thru the list and counting, I figure you should know)
Does everyone just not cast targeted spells when you have him in play? If so, then that is 'working'.
Willbender is one of my favorite cards in the cube, because it is SO backbreaking.
Willbender is like Force Spike. In a cube of this size, your opponent cannot actively count on you having that card unless he scouted you out somehow. So most of the time they walk straight into it. Willbender will deflect a removal to your opponent's bomb, and get a 0 for 2. It's amazing and I would never cut it.
Plus, I've seen at least 3 games where someone willbended a Demonfire/Fireball for the win. That makes epic matches.
Aven Squire also sucks. There should be WAY more white weenie that are better than it.
Other than those, the rest seems good.
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Actually paying WW for a 2/2 flyer or 1W for a 1/1 Exalted flyer presents a nice choice.
I guess it's 60/40 for the WW 2/2 flyer.
I'm more worried about mana issues with all the double white cards..
Willbender is great.
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The list on cube cobra
Read my blog on cube - Latest post June 2nd 2022
I actually have been thinking about this recently. I have an 800 card cube, and Colossus is very rarely played w/o Tinker or Tooth. You can always get a Sundering Titan for a similar, if not better effect, but Titan is much better on it's own than Colossus.
(list not current)
My Cube Google Docs Spreadsheet: https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AibgWfz0ukmOdDNhOHlucjcxUi1wVy00NDhLbDUtUlE&hl=en_US#gid=8
(list is always current)
I've always been wondering about the Collosus in your cube. (Do you play the Sundering Titan or not? Not clear from your post. If not, it's definitely better. Also, the ability to reanimate it is a great factor in it's playability).
The list on cube cobra
Read my blog on cube - Latest post June 2nd 2022
Yes, I do indeed have a Titan in there. I will likely be removing Colossus when I do a Conflux update as he is very underwhelming outside of the "combo" with Tinker.
(list not current)
My Cube Google Docs Spreadsheet: https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AibgWfz0ukmOdDNhOHlucjcxUi1wVy00NDhLbDUtUlE&hl=en_US#gid=8
(list is always current)
I also include discussions about cards we took out, cards we banned, and cards we might add.
Memory Jar is just a bit too narrow. If I can't find something to replace it it'll stay, but I do wish for a broad card instead.
The list on cube cobra
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Check out the list of artifacts in my cube... they're all hand-picked and well tested: http://cubedrafting.blogspot.com/2008/12/artifacts.html
I also include discussions about cards we took out, cards we banned, and cards we might add.
Though Palinchron is nice if you have the stuff to combo with him...high tide, heartbeat, etc.
Currently 62/265 cards.
My cube actually has Fog Bank and Wall of Tears. These two cards can stop an aggro deck and buy the blue player time to stabilize. I don't see these two walls in any other cubes.
Memory Jar isn't horrible, I'm just wondering if there is a possibility for a better artifact in his place. In your list, cards I haven't tried yet are:
Trip Noose
Oblivion Stone
Staff of Domination
Coldsteel Heart
Temporal Aperture
Prolly Trip Noose is the most solid card of them all.
Thanks for your help, but I'm already playing them all since the beginning (except for Shapesharer).
I've considered them, but:
a) Walls aren't fun/interesting to play with and against. I only play Wall of Roots, and only because green ramp decks are weak
b) They are too strong against aggro strategies
The list on cube cobra
Read my blog on cube - Latest post June 2nd 2022
Trip Noose is solid, I assume Icy Manipulator is already in your cube, cause that's a little better than that.
I like Oblivion Stone, but more in EDH than in cube.
Staff of Domination requires a lot of mana, but I like it a lot in green decks, they have the acceleration to get the mana fast and they can really use untap target creature and draw a card.
I also like Memory Jar together with something like Cerebral Vortex ;-)
Edit: after looking at your list in post number 1, I'd cut the Sigil of Distinction. I don't see the following cards:
Crystal shard it's a good card
Erratic Portal this one can even be used in any deck
Quicksilver Amulet Sundering titan turn 5 ? it doesn't cost you more, just 2 turns of mana ;-)
Sphere of Resistance Aggro will like this
Winter Orb Anti-control
Duplicant 6 colorless to remove any targettable creature + you'll most likely get a decent creature
Pyrite Spellbomb Red needs a way to draw a card somtimes, this is the one that may help you out in those situations.
The Rack If black is running a little discard theme, they'll like this.
Ankh of Mishra Another aggro card. When your opponent goes Mountain, Mox Ruby, Ankh, you're in trouble !
Karn, Silver Golem Jitte is sooo annoying, this guy makes you able to Shock that Jitte ;-)
"Everybody dies, Tracey. Someone's carrying a bullet for you right now, doesn't even know it. The trick is to die of old age before it finds you."
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540> 360 Powered CubeIt's in my blue section since it proved playable only in blue decks
I just added Sigil of Distinction, and I think it has a lot of potential. It turns every creature into a deadly threat, and many creature have evasion.
Good catch. I've been playing that all the time, but it wasn't listed here. Fixed.
I've considered it, but Crystal Shard didn't yet prove to be that strong. I'm expecting it to, but my players won't tolerate this addition now.
Does one mana really has that much of an impact? Grand Arbiter is good, so this one may also be.
That card is not fun. Not going in.
I'd count it as a red card
That's a possibility.
I like it. I always find artifacts to be more control-oriented so this card stands out.
But when there are no artifacts, it's just a 4/4 for 5. And even if there is an artifact, it requires another removal spell.
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About Karn : Well, animating an equipped Jitte makes it fall off, since a creature can't be attached to another creture, that's good enough already imo.
There's many more uses, like killing enemy moxes and blocking with useless acceleration artifacts ;-) I also like Karn + Darksteel Ingot.
There's more use for the guy than you'd think. There's always some other artifact lying around ..
But hey, I'm not making your cube, this was my advise, hope it helps
"Everybody dies, Tracey. Someone's carrying a bullet for you right now, doesn't even know it. The trick is to die of old age before it finds you."
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540> 360 Powered CubePalinchron is flat-out ridiculous. It comes down and leaves mana open for a counter, its own rescue ability, or another spell. Yeah, it's at its most broken with mana acceleration like you mention, but it really is always good. The Urza land untap mechanic is broken and most of the cards that have it are really good. I once got to play Treachery on a creature and then untap into a Bribery (I forget what I used the Treachery for, but I nabbed a Yosei with the Bribery).
Cheers,
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Also, what will you take out of my white to include Lapse of Certainty (if at all)? I'm already taking out Samurai of the Pale Curtain, Adarkar Valkyrie and Scourglass.
The list on cube cobra
Read my blog on cube - Latest post June 2nd 2022
The list on cube cobra
Read my blog on cube - Latest post June 2nd 2022
The list on cube cobra
Read my blog on cube - Latest post June 2nd 2022
I also include discussions about cards we took out, cards we banned, and cards we might add.
So, unlike my usual updates I'll begin from the bottom up. I made a major change to my land section. I've been planning cutting five more lands for more than three months, and I finally did it. I added all those five slots in my multicolored section, because I think that area had the most untapped potential. This also gave me the space to move some of my pseudo-mono cards to their rightful place.
- Lake of the Dead
Too slow and didn't do a lot in the long run.
- Temple to the False God
Too narrow, and even when it works it's unimpressive.
- Flagstones of Trokair
"Plays nicely with Armageddons" is too narrow, and I've cut the number of land destruction spells a bit in this update anyway.
- Riptide Laboratory
That's very narrow.
- Mishra's Workshop
Never seems to do anything. It has been played once, but really a deck cannot count on drafting that high number of artifacts to make this worthy.
Aditionally, I decided to replace all my cycling lands with the vivids. The cycling lands are easily playable, but they aren't exciting, the need to support my growing multicolored section and the player's demand are the reasons to this change.
-5*Cycling Lands (Barren Moor)
+5*Vivid Lands (Vivid Crag)
This change alone will significantly change my cube, but that's far from all. This update contains 47(!) cards, by far the largest I've ever made.
White:
- Scourglass
A weak Wrath effect. Nowhere near Disk.
+Martial Scoop
That's an amazing tempo boost. I don't think it wins games on it's own, but it's certainly strong and exciting.
- Samurai of the Pale Curtain
It always seems to be the worst 2/2 for WW creature. Once every few games (less than once in a draft) the graveyard hose effect will be awesome, but we've got a better card for that by far.
+Path to Exile
- Adarkar Valkyrie
Never survives. The power of white is really rising a lot in the last few sets, and she's one of the outdated victims.
+ Scepter of Dominance
Icy dominates, and the scepter's title describes it well.
- Whipcorder
Playable, but not so splashable and not so exciting. I'm tuning down the number of morph cards I run in this update.
+ Aven Squire
Splashable, aggressive, evasive beater. Exalted is a great mechanic for cube so far, so I hope this won't let me down.
Blue
I promised upgrading the blue creatures, and I did. First, the easy cuts.
-Timetwister , +Time Spiral
That's virtually a pure upgrade.
-Willbender, +Quicksilver Dragon
Willbender never works. One of my attempts to improve the blue creature's section.
-Telling Time
low impact
+Traumatic Visions
Seems perfect for blue. Cheap instant speed fixing + thinning or a counter (though expensive, a large part of the times it won't matter).
-Maelstrom Djinn, +Esperzoa
An upgrade IMO. With all the moxen I can see Esperzoa easily played, and she's huge for her cost.
-Brine Elemental
Morph as a theme isn't strong enough for our cube. Brine Elemental has a low impact outside of that theme.
+Old Man of the Sea
Again, trying to improve my blue creatures. Steal effect have proven good, repetition is desirable as well. Steals only small creatures, but still worth a try. I mean, Threads of Disloyalty is easily playable, so why not?
-Gush
The tempo disadvantage is way too severe. Was never more than a five mana Inspiration.
+Waterfront Bouncer
Not the best, but a few players really wanted it. It's still better than the card Iv'e just cut, but I expect it to get out again before the end of the year.
-Intuition
Gifts is good, but the effect is still narrow and I don't need that many.
+Jace Beleren
I still don't like it, but:
a) Player's demand. Since when do I listen to them?
b) I probably underrate it
c) Planeswalker's have style in their veins. I just need to play them all. They are fun, they are thrilling and they add more decisions to the game.
d) The new arts rock (the old art is also cool, but not as much).
e) I have the space anyway
Black
-Bone Splinters, +Ashes to Ashes
Upgrade. Saccing a critter was harder than I thought it would, Ashes to Ashes is a huge tempo and card advantage.
-Putrid Imp, +Rotting Rats
Upgrade. Since you almost never need the discard in your very first turn, and discarding two cards is usually enough, the broader card wins here.
-Grim Tutor
We don't have combos, and this is slow, expensive and painful. Was bad when used.
+Silent Specter
Even without a morph theme, this seems good.
-Choking Sands
It's playable, but the number of nonbasics lands goes down, and their importance becomes greater. Wasn't that good anyway.
+Bane of the Living
Black has so many mass removals now it's sick.
- Desolation Angel
It just moves to the BW section.
+ Phyrexian Reclamation
Tempting
-Shadow Guildmage
Doesn't do enough
+Cabal Interrogator
DerBK recommended it, and it seems good. Black creatures are awful.
Okay this update is just too massive for one post. I'll post the rest in a few days, that'll also ease the discussion.
The list on cube cobra
Read my blog on cube - Latest post June 2nd 2022
I wouldn't take out Putrid Imp though. It's one of the key cards to a reanimator strategy.
Currently 62/265 cards.
We also play Windfall, Memory Jar and Wheel of Fortune. I don't think I should play that many draw-seven effects.
Not searching for a fat flier, but a hard-to-deal with evasive finisher. I didn't think his ability would matter.
I had played against him though, and he was very subpar and unexciting (in hand of a good player as well. Maybe his strategy with Jace was flawed. How do you all play with it?).
There is a limit how many narrow cards I can play to push a single theme, and I don't want to come to the point where players feel forced to play reanimator. It's strong enough as is.
Given that, I think Rotting Rats are better and so deserve replacing it.
The list on cube cobra
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How many other morphs do you have? (I'm not going thru the list and counting, I figure you should know)
Does everyone just not cast targeted spells when you have him in play? If so, then that is 'working'.
Willbender is one of my favorite cards in the cube, because it is SO backbreaking.
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Plus, I've seen at least 3 games where someone willbended a Demonfire/Fireball for the win. That makes epic matches.
Aven Squire also sucks. There should be WAY more white weenie that are better than it.
Other than those, the rest seems good.
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I guess it's 60/40 for the WW 2/2 flyer.
I'm more worried about mana issues with all the double white cards..
Willbender is great.
"Everybody dies, Tracey. Someone's carrying a bullet for you right now, doesn't even know it. The trick is to die of old age before it finds you."
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