I think the command can be more powerful than the Vengeance, but the fact that the Vengeance cycles does make it better. I think you valued the cards correctly.
Yeah, I didn't word that very well. I meant it has a better chance of blowing out your opponent since you can pick the modes.
Sorry for the double post but I just wanted to post that I have just finished upping my cube to 540 cards and I think it looks pretty solid. I like that it is now substantially more versatile and I feel that with the extra cards, I was able to improve the quality and quantity of available/feasible archetypes. I took a page from Evan Erwin's cube in that I created a section for Hybrid cards apart from Multicolor. I felt that this was important to distinguish since hybrid cards could be used in any monocolor, and as such I didn't want to be showing a color preference by having more hybrids than multicolors in any particular color combination. As such there are 80 (66 mono + 14 hybrid) representing each individual color. There are still a few more cards that I would like to add, but I do not want to increase the number of cards in the cube. Time and testing will tell what gets the axe in favor of an alternative. Any suggestions, comments are welcome.
Sorry for the absence of a changelog, but you can see the new and updated cube list in the initial post. Thanks.
After going through my list and crunching numbers I realized I have 1 more creature than is desired in my cube (to keep to my 50/50 overall ratio). As such I will be replacing 2 creatures in my multicolor section with 2 non-creatures, and replacing 1 non-creature in my hybrid section with 1 creature (effectively reducing my creature count by 1). Here is what I am considering. Does anyone have any feedback as to which are the best of the following replacements?
@ weremine: yeah I agree with your comments, I had actually done the cuts exactly as you specified a couple of weeks ago. However I have yet to find room for Death Grasp and Armadillo Cloak. I do, however, like Wrecking Ball.
@ donald: Fire/Ice is in the hybrid section...I could never forget about this one. Personally I'm not a big fan of Vol not to mention that I was trying to keep P-Walkers limited to one of each mono color. Rakdos GM is in.
Armadillo Cloak is still nagging at my conscience.
Also...How do you guys feel about various Threaten effects in red?
Steal a walker on your turn after opponent has placed the last counter for ultimate.
I MUST try this.
And along the way while my opponent puts more and more counters on his planeswalker, i'm gonna whine and say that planeswalkers almost are TOO powerful.
Then when i cast Word of Seizing i will laugh my ass off...
It buggers me that Grab the Reins doesn't untap the creature like normal Threaten does. Word of Seizing untaps, is instant, split second and it can target any permanent. Very nasty against planeswalkers. Steal a walker on your turn after opponent has placed the last counter for ultimate.
Been there, owned that
I Confiscated someone's Chandra Nalaar after he put the 8th counter on it. Man, did he take a beating
Back when I first saw Grab the Reins I thought it was spectacular because I assumed you could gain control of the creature, attack with it, then sacrifice it after damage (if entwined). However, I was disappointed when I read the card more carefully. It is still good though from the versatility standpoint. I also like Word of Seizing, especially after seeing it used on a Mindslaver :o. What a kick in the nuts that is.
I've been trying to find room for Words of War after seeing it suggested by wtwlf and testing it out myself.
Ok, round two of cube additions. I have little or no experience with most of the following cards but they look promising and I have seen many of them featured in other cubes. I am adding a total of 60 cards to make my cube an even 600. I get the impression it will only keep growing even though I originally told myself I would stop it at 540. Nonetheless...
White: +8
(total of 75 cards with 40/35 creature/non-creature split)
I am also swapping out Vivids and Tri-Lands for Duals and looking to swap out some cards in my artifact suite to make room for Lotus Petal, Smokestack, and Erratic Portal.
After net drafting Evan's cube extensively I found that having too many multicolored cards in the cube is really annoying and prompted me to reconsider the number of multicolored slots in my cube. Currently I have 75 Multicolor (7 each 2-color pair, 5 tri-color) and 35 Hybrid (4 each allied color pair, 3 each enemy color pair) for a total of 110 slots out of my 600 card cube.
I decided to decrease the Multicolor section by 10 cards, (cutting 1 from each color pair), and decrease the Hybrid section by 5 cards, (cutting 1 from each allied color pair).
Hybrid Cuts
WU: Augury Adept (Lack of evasion renders this ineffective)
UB: Inkfathom Infiltrator (Like it for Sui Black but is otherwise a consistently late pick)
BR: Ashenmoor Gouger (Nothing against him but if someone has gotta go, unfortunately it is him)
RG: Boggart Ram-Gang (He will be missed as well but it is either him or the Boartusk Liege, tough choice) *I'm still not sure about this one
GW: Oversoul of Dusk (Prohibitive mana cost)
I also noticed recently that IMO I did not have enough lands in my cube so I wanted to use the now available slots to add 10 more lands. This leaves me 5 slots. Eventually these will more than likely become Moxen but until I have them, I'm not sure what to include.
I am in the process of reorganizing/updating the initial post to correspond with the most recent cube list. Should be up soon in all its glory.
After net drafting Evan's cube extensively I found that having too many multicolored cards in the cube is really annoying and prompted me to reconsider the number of multicolored slots in my cube. Currently I have 75 Multicolor (7 each 2-color pair, 5 tri-color) and 35 Hybrid (4 each allied color pair, 3 each enemy color pair) for a total of 110 slots out of my 600 card cube.
Heh, Evan got the opposite effect of what he wanted. Which lands did you add?
RG: Boggart Ram-Gang (He will be missed as well but it is either him or the Boartusk Liege, tough choice) *I'm still not sure about this one
I'd take out the liege. The liege isn't very good on its own, and doesn't do anything the turn it comes into play.
Heh, Evan got the opposite effect of what he wanted. Which lands did you add?
I was playing sans Dual Lands up until this point, I just got my minty CE Duals in the mail yesterday.
I still really like the Liege though I suppose for Gruul.deck Ram-Gang makes more sense. I have been weighing the pro's and con's of this for a while now.
Twisted Justice is my favorite UB spell. It does so much.
I'd cut Agony Warp instead which is just another cheap removal like there are dozens in monoblack.
I had just put the Twisted Justice in like 2-3 weeks ago and it hasn't done anything for me, or anyone else for that matter. I realize the potential, but I saw it clogging up my hand the times that I drafted it. I think the most I have seen it get so far was a 2/2 elf token. Though I suppose 2-3 weeks might not be an extensive enough testing period. I will keep it in for a while longer as I am still waiting on testing out Soul Manipulation.
Does anyone have any opinions on Goblin Assault? I noticed that on Evan's online cube draft that it tends to be a reasonably high pick, I never really even considered including it. Thoughts? Likewise for Saproling Burst?
Does anyone have any opinions on Goblin Assault? I noticed that on Evan's online cube draft that it tends to be a reasonably high pick, I never really even considered including it. Thoughts? Likewise for Saproling Burst?
Haven't played the Assault but Saproling Burst is definitely solid.
My highlight of the day was Flickerwisping my opponent's Mox Diamond after he missed his third land drop, effectively setting him back two turns. I love Flickerwisp!
EDIT: I am also in the process of rewriting my initial post with the cube list and analysis, be sure to stop by for a look sometime soon. It should be up within the next week.
Super sick deck man. I love W/R/b and draft those colours frequently. How is Threaten for you? I've been tempted to run it a few times but it looks like it costs 1 too much.
Threaten has been fairly decent for us, every once in a while it is a blowout. The only reason it was really boarded for me was because of the obscene amount of burn/spot removal that I was already running. Things didn't exactly stick around long enough for me to threaten them with that build. After three rounds my only loss was to a well timed Hatred.
Good stuff man. I just read the whole thread and I was wondering if you wouldn't mind giving me your point of view on something. My cube is at 471 (I know, an odd number to be at) so its sort of in the middle of an 8 and 12 man cube. I haven't decided on whether i want to cut the cube down to 360 or up it to 540. I know that it will be rediculously hard to cut cards down to 360, but at the same time i dont have a large enough group to warrant 540 (only about 4-5 usually). Was the cube fun at 360 (vary enough archetye wise?) or was it just people playing the same thing every time?
I am currently very happy with the size of the cube, despite the fact that more often than not the draft is comprised of less than 8 people (usually 4-5 here too). We rather enjoy not necessarily seeing the same cards every time. At 360 the cube was fun but it was really just chalk full of bombs which made it hard to commit to a certain archetype when drafting from it. 540 feels a lot more balanced than did 360 and even moreso with the recent move to 600. The larger cardpool works in your favor I believe. If you check most other people's cubes here, they usually have somewhere around 600 cards give or take and I know many of them don't regularly see full drafts. I think this is ultimately what to aim for but you could def have fun with a 360 card cube if that is what you decide upon. Just make sure to leave yourself some non-absolute-bomb cards so that you keep things in check.
However, what makes you feel like you need to add/trim at this point?
Does anyone have any opinions on Goblin Assault? I noticed that on Evan's online cube draft that it tends to be a reasonably high pick, I never really even considered including it. Thoughts? Likewise for Saproling Burst?
I had it in for a bit, but I liked it, it's more a control hoser in that if they can't find a blocker, the incremental amount of goblins ends up adding up and lets you burn to the dome for the last points easier.
Ok, I recently undertook a major cube overhaul to reduce the 600 card-count to 480. We typically only have four +/- people drafting at a given time and I/we felt 600 was a bit high for my/our preference. I've been getting frustrated with certain cards not showing up routinely in drafts, namely the ones I shelled out a good amount of money for (ie. Drain, Library). I figure with a full 8-man pod, we will see 75% of the cards in the cube which is pretty decent variation between drafts imo. Along with reducing the size of the cube in general, I wanted to reduce the presence of multicolor predominantly, and as a function of this change, I combined the Multi and Hybrid sections which I previously held as different entitites. You will notice that some pretty great cards were lost along the way; however, that's when you know the cube is becoming stronger since the relative power level jumps significantly with the more subpar cards that are removed. Please see the OP for the full list. As always, questions and comments are welcome and appreciated. On to the list:
Yeah, I didn't word that very well. I meant it has a better chance of blowing out your opponent since you can pick the modes.
Current EDH Decks:
G Multani, Maro-Sorcerer
B Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
GU Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Sorry for the absence of a changelog, but you can see the new and updated cube list in the initial post. Thanks.
After going through my list and crunching numbers I realized I have 1 more creature than is desired in my cube (to keep to my 50/50 overall ratio). As such I will be replacing 2 creatures in my multicolor section with 2 non-creatures, and replacing 1 non-creature in my hybrid section with 1 creature (effectively reducing my creature count by 1). Here is what I am considering. Does anyone have any feedback as to which are the best of the following replacements?
Multi: 2 of the following...
-1 Angel of Despair, +1 Death Grasp
and/or
-1 Knight of the Reliquary, +1 Armadillo Cloak (leaning towards for choice #2)
and/or
-1 Hellhole Rats, +1 Wrecking Ball (obv. for choice #1)
Hybrid: 1 of the following...
-1 Everlasting Torment, +1 Rakdos Guildmage/Ashenmoor Liege (leaning towards the guildmage)
Current EDH Decks:
G Multani, Maro-Sorcerer
B Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
GU Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
@ donald: Fire/Ice is in the hybrid section...I could never forget about this one. Personally I'm not a big fan of Vol not to mention that I was trying to keep P-Walkers limited to one of each mono color. Rakdos GM is in.
Armadillo Cloak is still nagging at my conscience.
Also...How do you guys feel about various Threaten effects in red?
Current EDH Decks:
G Multani, Maro-Sorcerer
B Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
GU Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
I MUST try this.
And along the way while my opponent puts more and more counters on his planeswalker, i'm gonna whine and say that planeswalkers almost are TOO powerful.
Then when i cast Word of Seizing i will laugh my ass off...
My Tribal cube
My 93/94 old school cube
My Artifact cube
My Hearthstone Quiz App for iOS
Been there, owned that
I Confiscated someone's Chandra Nalaar after he put the 8th counter on it. Man, did he take a beating
I don't use the Word of seizing but I have Grab the Reins and Threaten in my cube.
"Everybody dies, Tracey. Someone's carrying a bullet for you right now, doesn't even know it. The trick is to die of old age before it finds you."
My
540> 360 Powered CubeI've been trying to find room for Words of War after seeing it suggested by wtwlf and testing it out myself.
Current EDH Decks:
G Multani, Maro-Sorcerer
B Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
GU Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
White: +8
(total of 75 cards with 40/35 creature/non-creature split)
Blue: +8
(total of 75 cards with 30/45 creature/non-creature split)
Black: +8
(total of 75 cards with 35/40 creature/non-creature split)
Red: +8
(total of 75 cards with 40/35 creature/non-creature split)
Green: +8
(total of 75 cards with 45/30 creature/non-creature split)
Multi: +20
(total of 75 cards with 7 in each color pair and 5 tri-color cards)
I am also swapping out Vivids and Tri-Lands for Duals and looking to swap out some cards in my artifact suite to make room for Lotus Petal, Smokestack, and Erratic Portal.
Current EDH Decks:
G Multani, Maro-Sorcerer
B Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
GU Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
I decided to decrease the Multicolor section by 10 cards, (cutting 1 from each color pair), and decrease the Hybrid section by 5 cards, (cutting 1 from each allied color pair).
Multi Cuts
WU: Kiss of the Amesha (Sorcery speed makes this the suck with high cost)
UB: Twisted Justice (See above)
BR: Wrecking Ball (Was always kinda meh)
RG: Fires of Yavimaya (Recently added Sarkhan Vol which has a similar ability and is more versatile)
GW: Phantom Nishoba (Like the card but kinda expensive for GW)
WB: Moving Spectral Lynx to White section in place of Icatian Javelineers
WR: Orim's Thunder (Like the card but is the weakest in this pairing)
UR: Jilt (Was always a filler of sorts)
BG: Consume Strength (See above)
UG: Plaxmanta (Like the card but doesn't scream CUBE)
Hybrid Cuts
WU: Augury Adept (Lack of evasion renders this ineffective)
UB: Inkfathom Infiltrator (Like it for Sui Black but is otherwise a consistently late pick)
BR: Ashenmoor Gouger (Nothing against him but if someone has gotta go, unfortunately it is him)
RG: Boggart Ram-Gang (He will be missed as well but it is either him or the Boartusk Liege, tough choice) *I'm still not sure about this one
GW: Oversoul of Dusk (Prohibitive mana cost)
I also noticed recently that IMO I did not have enough lands in my cube so I wanted to use the now available slots to add 10 more lands. This leaves me 5 slots. Eventually these will more than likely become Moxen but until I have them, I'm not sure what to include.
I am in the process of reorganizing/updating the initial post to correspond with the most recent cube list. Should be up soon in all its glory.
Current EDH Decks:
G Multani, Maro-Sorcerer
B Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
GU Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Heh, Evan got the opposite effect of what he wanted. Which lands did you add?
I'd take out the liege. The liege isn't very good on its own, and doesn't do anything the turn it comes into play.
The list on cube cobra
Read my blog on cube - Latest post June 2nd 2022
I was playing sans Dual Lands up until this point, I just got my minty CE Duals in the mail yesterday.
I still really like the Liege though I suppose for Gruul.deck Ram-Gang makes more sense. I have been weighing the pro's and con's of this for a while now.
Current EDH Decks:
G Multani, Maro-Sorcerer
B Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
GU Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
I had just put the Twisted Justice in like 2-3 weeks ago and it hasn't done anything for me, or anyone else for that matter. I realize the potential, but I saw it clogging up my hand the times that I drafted it. I think the most I have seen it get so far was a 2/2 elf token. Though I suppose 2-3 weeks might not be an extensive enough testing period. I will keep it in for a while longer as I am still waiting on testing out Soul Manipulation.
Current EDH Decks:
G Multani, Maro-Sorcerer
B Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
GU Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Current EDH Decks:
G Multani, Maro-Sorcerer
B Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
GU Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Haven't played the Assault but Saproling Burst is definitely solid.
1x Savannah Lions
1x Magus of the Scroll
1x Mogg Fanatic
1x Grim Lavamancer
1x Duergar Hedge-Mage
1x Ghitu Slinger
1x Flickerwisp
1x Flametongue Kavu
1x Masticore
1x Reveillark
1x Siege-Gang Commander
1x Exalted Angel
1x Path to Exile
1x Swords to Plowshares
1x Char
1x Urza's Rage
1x Starstorm
1x Vindicate
1x Armageddon
1x Cataclysm
1x Mind Twist
1x Bitterblossom
1x Aether Vial
1x Sigil of Distinction
1x Blood Crypt
7x Plains
6x Mountain
2x Swamp
1x Pariah
1x Austere Command
1x Tinker
1x Deep Analysis
1x Decree of Pain
1x Goblin Welder
1x Goblin Bombardment
1x Threaten
1x Hateflayer
1x Nantuko Vigilante
1x Ohran Viper
1x Life from the Loam
1x Soltari Guerrillas
1x Plaxcaster Frogling
1x Glare of Subdual
1x Stormbind
1x Icy Manipulator
1x Isochron Scepter
My highlight of the day was Flickerwisping my opponent's Mox Diamond after he missed his third land drop, effectively setting him back two turns. I love Flickerwisp!
Highlight #2 was waiting for my opponent to tap his Grim Monolith for mana to play my Cataclysm on the next turn with Masticore and a Flametongue Kavu on the field.
EDIT: I am also in the process of rewriting my initial post with the cube list and analysis, be sure to stop by for a look sometime soon. It should be up within the next week.
Current EDH Decks:
G Multani, Maro-Sorcerer
B Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
GU Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
Current EDH Decks:
G Multani, Maro-Sorcerer
B Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
GU Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
(CubeTutor & MTGS)
360 Peasant Cube!
Custom Cube
RWU Miracles RWU
However, what makes you feel like you need to add/trim at this point?
Current EDH Decks:
G Multani, Maro-Sorcerer
B Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
GU Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
I had it in for a bit, but I liked it, it's more a control hoser in that if they can't find a blocker, the incremental amount of goblins ends up adding up and lets you burn to the dome for the last points easier.
I used to write cube articles on StarCityGames, now for GatheringMagic and podcast about cube (w/Antknee42.)
Current EDH Decks:
G Multani, Maro-Sorcerer
B Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
GU Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Total Removed: 120
WWWWW
(-19):
(+4):
UUUUU
(-16):
(+1):
Daze
BBBBB
(-17):
(+2):
RRRRR
(-20):
(+5):
GGGGG
(-18):
(+3)
WUBRG
(-34):
(+4):
0
(-5):
LANDS
(-13):
(+3):
Current EDH Decks:
G Multani, Maro-Sorcerer
B Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
GU Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Primal Command - I would take out Reap and Sow instead.
Opposition - Such a unique & powerful card in blue. I'd take out Complicate.
Serra Avenger - I like this more than Galepowder Mage though the mage is a lot more fun to play with.
Black section - Sorry if you covered this already but it seems you are a bit creature light here. How has that worked out?