This would include one of the most brutal card ever in Contract from Below, or is that too brutal? (Is there such a thing?)
I entertained the notion of running CfB for a while... then I smartened up. This card is absolutely absurd, and easily would be first pickable in essentially every circumstance. While it seems fun, once you're on the receiving end you want to tear it to pieces.
Since you're already using Portal, Unglued, and Unhinged with a Booster Tutor errata, have you ever thought of playing ante cards?
This would include one of the most brutal card ever in Contract from Below, or is that too brutal? (Is there such a thinig?)
What about Chaos Orb? I know some people play it as a colorless vindicate. Just 2 mana to cast and 1 mana to top sac to "destroy target permanent."
Chaos orb was tried, and cut for being unreliable played as written, and too good/weird/not as intended as a colorless Vindicate.
Ante cards explicitly say that I have to ante cards, which we don't, and don't plan on doing. The Unglued/Unhinged cards we play do function like regular cards without requiring anything special.
And Booster Tutor will likely become a 45 cards pool from which packs are generated at random. (and if the whole cube isn't drafted, the unused cards are also part of the stack the pack comes from). We plan to test that next time we cube. I don't like to think of it as errata so much as accommodating a really cool card.
I am anticipating that our 45 card booster tutor stack will become sort of a 'graveyard' for cards cut from the cube.
"Remove Contract from Below from your deck before playing if you're not playing for ante."
I don't think I can convince anyone (even me) that ante of 0 is 'playing for ante' when it only applies to the one cubeable ante card — especially when the card is Ancestral Recall on steriods.
I think the idea of having a predesigned sideboard is pretty nifty. You should add in cards for the Wishes, and I reckon that a sideboard of 30 would be about right. That would give you a specific card about half the time, which feels about right. Is there any reason to restrict yourself to cards not in the cube? I'd probably put the extra cards in marked sleeves to make them easier to separate, so you could sort out the second copy of a card.
Would you put hosers in as wish targets? I'd be tempted to include things like Boil and Flashfires.
I have run Chaos Orb as printed since getting my CE copy. It is quite fun, creates a moment of tension and is appreciated by the more casual members of the group. I can see it getting boring and being cut in the future, though, and I see no reason to include a colourless Vindicate that is playable in instalments and can be a lock with Academy Ruins. The technique with the Orb seems to be to hold it by the corners and spin it on its diagonal axis. I reckon that gives about 75% accuracy. The other thing is that we are fairly sporting when it comes to the Orb, and don't spread our cards out too much. Even if it misses the intended target, it usually hits something.
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
I think the idea of having a predesigned sideboard is pretty nifty. You should add in cards for the Wishes, and I reckon that a sideboard of 30 would be about right. That would give you a specific card about half the time, which feels about right. Is there any reason to restrict yourself to cards not in the cube? I'd probably put the extra cards in marked sleeves to make them easier to separate, so you could sort out the second copy of a card.
Would you put hosers in as wish targets? I'd be tempted to include things like Boil and Flashfires.
No hosers, as they are going to still be super narrow (how do you feel when you manage to random Flashfires against the U/B deck with 6 islands in play?).
I would include not-in-the-cube cards since that way I get to put cards which I miss a little back in, and maintain the highlander 'feel' of the cube.
The extra cards have a special sharpied symbol (on the sleeve) on them to keep them separate.
I've got a couple questions for you. How's Genesis running for you post-switch to 360?
Why Gerrard's Verdict over Lingering Souls?
Why Azorious Guildmage over something like Venser Sojourner?
Gerrard's Verdict is in because it is a fairly unique effect. We have plenty of efficient creatures in B/W, but not very many ways to force your opponent to discard two cards for 2 mana. And removing it would reduce the number card-advantage discard spells down to 3 (Mind Twist, Blightning, and Hymn to Tourach) and I think having those effects is very important. And if I cut it, then I can't just substitute something else in black for an equivalent effect. Stupor isn't even close, and there aren't really many other options.
As for Azorius Guildmage;
It is an easy to land 2-drop which causes all kinds of headaches for most decks. Tap the creature holding Jitte, cancel the equip on Sword of Fire and Ice, stop Jace from going off, or just tapping down blockers so you can get through for lethal. It is effective, playable in every U/W deck, and never really a dead card. — That said, it is clearly the weakest U/W card I have and I'm looking for a replacement. Venser, the Sojourner isn't the answer, because he costs too much for what he does (Although I may think about including him if my blink archetype gains enough ground). If he had some way to protect himself, then I'd stick him in right away. Wall of Denial isn't the answer either, because it just stalls the game out, and doesn't help anyone win. I am trying to remove many/all of the 'stop me from losing' cards which don't create card advantage or otherwise advance the game in some way. Not to mention that it only went in a subset of U/W decks. I don't want to be encouraging W/u tempo only to have that player staring at Wall of Denial or Plumeveil and wondering why his archetype isn't getting support like it should.
Genesis is... interesting. It performs great in about 25% of games, but often it does nothing. Lots of games don't go long enough for it to matter, but the games where it does, often are the games where midrange can turn the tables on control and take control of the game, excuse the pun. I'm debating about what to do with him but right now my playgroup won't stand for me talking about cutting him. Eventually I think something like Acidic Slime could slide into that slot. I'm also starting to see Deranged Hermit lose ground now too (especially with Symbol Status now wreaking havoc at CMC=4). Internally, I am debating about the merits of Wolfir Silverheart bringing 12 power for 5 mana, but I'm not sure if he is good enough either.
I like Lingering Souls more than Verdict too, but they're both pretty good. Lingering Souls is SICK. In any WB deck I'd build, I'd rather run Stupor than Verdict if it meant I could have Souls in the same deck.
I could see running the Guildmage over Venser in WU.
Fetters;
I have to cut something CMC>= 4. What else could possibly go? Reveillark? too good, and supports the same theme Restoration Angel brings. Catastrophe? Too important, and none of the other 4 drops are worse than the Angel. Fetters does a really important thing, but it does cost 4 mana and usually is more of a 'don't lose' card than a 'enable winning' card, especially since it can be negated via removal.
Bribery;
This was a toss-up, but the best thing we could think of to cut for the moonwalker other than Cryptic Command, which would be the other option. And Command is the likely cut for Dungeon Geists, which probably will come in if testing goes as well as I hope this weekend.
Wall of Blossoms;
This card is a control player's dream right? Stall the board, replace itself so you can hit your land drops and make it to late game. But it doesn't do anything else. Philosophy-wise, removing this helps encourage the 'cards help me win' strategy I'm trying to support. (And no, I'm not going to cut Berserk or Nature's Claim)
D. Hermit;
Only a small percentage of games have somebody paying the echo cost, and unless it is being paired with recurring nightmare, ol' master of squirrels rarely does more than make 4x 1/1's for 5 mana. The thought was to bring a tad more utility into green with the Slime. My players also see it as a bad Symbol Status at this point (which usually makes 5+ 1/1's for 4 mana).
Loam Lion and Qasali Pridemage;
Nobody sees these cards in the draft and says "Yes! I am totally going G/W now. I want all my multicolored cards to encourage you to get into the color, rather than being a 'nice to have' if you happen to be in the combination already. Sigarda really does that, and Horizon Canopy is one of the best 2-color lands, but I wasn't running it to make room for the Cat and Dog.
The cube is getting nice and tight now, and I am starting to feel how I can make some fairly serious package swaps and really keep the power level very similar.
The Pegasus and Charger are hardly necessary at 360. Both of them could get cut in white without losing something far better.
Spined Thopter, Thirst For Knowledge, Gifts Ungiven and Keiga are all cuts I would consider to keep Bribery.
Nature's Claim and Berserk you mentioned, but they're both such easy cuts from a cube like this one. Sable Stag and Pelakka Wurm are also good cuts to keep in the Wall of Blossoms and the Deranged Hermit.
Azorious Guildmage is hardly a gold card the "puts me into WU". I could say the same thing about a lot of the other gold cards in your section. Forcing me into a color combination isn't the only guideline gold cards need to hurdle to be good enough for the cube. Some of them are critical mass fillers that are just as important (if not more important) for a variety of strategies. Loam Lion and Pridemage fit those guidelines because they provide naya aggro with enough 2-power 1-drops or add to the necessary number of disenchant effects for your deck. Sigarda doesn't fill a role that has a gaping weakness, nor does she add to a needed critical mass of bodies/effects that you can quickly run short on.
Most of the cards you're adding in are worth playing. But a lot of the cards you're cutting are better.
The Pegasus and Charger are hardly necessary at 360. Both of them could get cut in white without losing something far better.
I would probably run a third pegasi if I had one. I think they are that important. Boring on paper, and exceedingly effective in practice. They come down on turn 2 like they should, and they connect because they fly. I'm not going to cut 2 mana cards for 4 mana ones, especially in white where I already have too many CMC=4 cards. Simply put, the math says I have to cut a 4-cost card, so the weakest one has to go.
Spined Thopter, Thirst For Knowledge, Gifts Ungiven and Keiga are all cuts I would consider to keep Bribery.
Not going to cut anything lower than CMC=4 for a 3UU planeswalker. I could see cutting gifts for it though. And if we do add Geists (which I plan on, once I show everyone what it can do tomorrow), then I will need to cut something at CMC=4 or 5 to make room. I will see what I can do to keep bribery in though.
Nature's Claim and Berserk you mentioned, but they're both such easy cuts from a cube like this one. Sable Stag and Pelakka Wurm are also good cuts to keep in the Wall of Blossoms and the Deranged Hermit.
I might be able to cut Stag instead, because it really isn't great at anything, just fairly good, while Wall is a extremely efficient creature. I think Claim, Berserk, and Wurm are all better than everything going in or out though. Your mileage may vary, but until I get a big tramply, shroudy creature in mono-green, I think Wurm is going to stick around.
Hermit hasn't been performing; There is no real reason for me to keep it around except for when somebody builds the G/B RecSur deck. I also want to keep the number of artifact/enchantment removal spells somewhat balanced, since I was planning on removing a white and a green spell which can, so I need to make room for a 5 drop, which means cutting a 5 drop, and Hermit is the weak link.
Azorious Guildmage is hardly a gold card the "puts me into WU". I could say the same thing about a lot of the other gold cards in your section. Forcing me into a color combination isn't the only guideline gold cards need to hurdle to be good enough for the cube. Some of them are critical mass fillers that are just as important (if not more important) for a variety of strategies. Loam Lion and Pridemage fit those guidelines because they provide naya aggro with enough 2-power 1-drops or add to the necessary number of disenchant effects for your deck. Sigarda doesn't fill a role that has a gaping weakness, nor does she add to a needed critical mass of bodies/effects that you can quickly run short on.
You know, if wizards would just print some good U/W cards it would be a bit easier I am struggling to make U/W do what I want it to. I am tempted to include sub-par Venser just to drive home support for the blink archetype. Eventually I want all my gold cards to drive me into their sections. If that means I have to cut down to an even smaller gold section eventually to make that work, so be it. I'm not there just yet though. One change at a time.
That said; My green section is designed to support (in the genuine sense of the word) aggro, not be the primary instrument of aggro. e.g. X/g or X/Y/g decks. in those situations, Loam lion isn't nearly as good as we'd like it to be, especially in the pretty common W/R/g or B/W/g decks.
And the thought was that Canopy might be more conducive than Pridemage to building into G/W since it is a draftable card in mono G or mono white, but if taken early, could springboard you into the other color, or if taken later on, at least a splash. I'll let this weekend's testing tell me what to do with this one. Lion out for Sigarda is a firm swap though, and she is way too good not to play.
Most of the cards you're adding in are worth playing. But a lot of the cards you're cutting are better.
If you say so. I do appreciate the feedback, and I think Monday or so I will have a better list of changes for you to tear apart
This weekend we are going to cube like 6 times so I will have some very real data on the new additions and some better perspective on whether or not the cuts are the right ones.
FWIW I think Call of the Herd can be cut as well if you are looking for something. I think Green's other 2-for-1s are just much more efficient. But, as always, I will always advocate for cutting walls from cube wherever possible.
6 cubes later and I have some nice data, we decided to make some interesting changes.
We also are going to cube twice more tomorrow! and get an idea how this works out. Going to move phyrexian and hybrid mana cards to the universal section and cut gold down to 5 per color pair (Dual, Shock, Fetch, + 2 wildcards in each). Helps align cards with where they tend to play out more often, and also lets me sneak Stillmoon Cavalier back in. Also we have officially branded Squee a Universal card too, since he gets drafted for non-red reasons a large percentage of the time.
Some notes on AVR cards;
[CARD]
Silverblade Paladin[/CARD] performed quite well. Handing Double Strike to creatures like Stormfront Pegasus is pretty darn good, and giving it to stuff holding equipment is even better. Jitte + Silverblade Paladin + Bitterblossom was really dumb to play against. Having one token hit for 6 on turn 4 and 13 more damage the next turn was pretty terrifying. Verdict: Yes
Ulvenwald Tracker is a house. So many games were completely dominated by this guy that I don't see him ever coming out of the cube. Verdict: Yes
Lightning Mauler is great. Not a standout card, but fits in well and does what a 2-drop needs to do. And occasionally it really just breaks the game wide open (FTK with haste is dumb, btw). Verdict: Yes
Tamiyo, the Moonwalker is very solid. Icy Manipulator is a quality effect already, and when it comes with upside (Used it with symbol status tokens to draw 6+ cards more than once, and when it goes ultimate, wins the game.) Verdict: Yes
Sigarda is a big, dumb, unstoppable creature. Simic Sky Swallower in G/W. Is this awesome? We think so. YMMV, but it performed well for us. Verdict: Yes
[CARD]
Wolfir Silverheart[/CARD] is also a big dumb creature, but it dies to everything and fails the terminate test pretty badly. Did some damage when it wasn't removed right away, but so would most 5 mana creatures. Verdict: Not worth it.
Craterhoof Behemoth was awesome, every time it hit play. 100% kill rate when it was cast. But it costs 8 freaking mana. Paying 3 extra mana for a 5/5 haste to come with your overrun is a pretty good deal, but in the end, I don't think we need an 8 mana card. Pelakka tramples on its own, replaces itself if your opponent has removal, and helps stabilize or race by gaining life. Verdict: Nope
Griselbrand; Expensive, but a nice creature. Too expensive to compete with the rest of black's top shelf finishers at the 360 level. Play it in bigger cubes for sure though. Verdict: Not quite
Tibalt: Bad. Just bad. Random discard doesn't help you win. Sorry Tibalt. Verdict: Nope.
Vexing Devil is ALMOST a fixed browbeat. But still isn't good enough. Best on turn 1, and goes downhill from there. 99% of the time, it does 4 damage to your opponent. The only time it doesn't is when that 4 damage would win the game. Played out exactly like I expected. Verdict: Not awful, but not a fit for small lists.
Hound of Griselbrand; Here is an awesome creature. Too bad red is crowded. Verdict: Good, but no room for him. Not as good as the stuff he competes with. Put it in large cubes for sure. I think it might be better than Keldon Champion.
Restoration Angel is a windmill slame staple. 'nuff said. Verdict: Yes
Which leaves where the changes are likely to fall:
Overview:
Decrease multicolor by 1 card per section
Increase universal section by 10 cards
Move :sympw::sympu::sympb::sympr::sympg: cards to Universal
Move :symwg::symbw::symrb::symgr::symgu: cards to Universal
Move Squee to Universal
AVR changes are live. Officially they are the same as the tentative changes in the above post.
We are building a better Booster Tutor 'pool' (BTP) now, and we are thinking it will land somewhere around 50 cards. The list does not reflect the current BTP.
There's a lot of those cuts I don't like, but the worst one is probably Imperial Seal. I would never exclude it from a black deck, and since adding the Pox theme and pushing Reanimator, it's more important than ever.
There's a lot of those cuts I don't like, but the worst one is probably Imperial Seal. I would never exclude it from a black deck, and since adding the Pox theme and pushing Reanimator, it's more important than ever.
Totally agreed. The second worst cut is probably Celestial Colonnade, which may be the best UW card.
I suppose I should have posted a bit more about what has been going on and what that update represents;
I haven't been updating my cube on MTGS (shame on me) through various tests and I'm planning an expansion to 400ish cards, which has involved a lot of testing of sub360 cards across various drafts.
I was about to cube with a group who I haven't gotten a chance to in a long time, and they wanted both an updated list and a changelog of what I was bringing. My cube had some of my update already adjusted, and some other cards that people wanted to test out in. What that changelog was is a 'snapshot' of a transient point in time. I know that quite a few of the changes are suboptimal and some critical cards got cut. This was mainly just to inform my group what was in the box. After going to all the trouble to update the OP and the changelog, I figured I'd run it through Eidolons comparison too. This is not where my cube is today, nor where I plan for it to be in two weeks. The really good cards that I cut — yeah, they are going to be in the 'final' version of the update. I can't cut Imperial Seal for good (no way!). It was just the black card on top of the stack when I wanted to get Clique in for testing.
On another note, Yeva is already cut. Card has done nothing across 5 drafts. Has anyone really had success with her? I found that situations where she is 'awesome' are usually situations where you have a 187, which is already card advantage and rarely did she help anyone 'win' other than attacking.
I entertained the notion of running CfB for a while... then I smartened up. This card is absolutely absurd, and easily would be first pickable in essentially every circumstance. While it seems fun, once you're on the receiving end you want to tear it to pieces.
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EDH Decks
GOmnath, Locus of ManaG
WUBSen TripletsWUB
BRGKresh the BloodbraidedBRG
Chaos orb was tried, and cut for being unreliable played as written, and too good/weird/not as intended as a colorless Vindicate.
Ante cards explicitly say that I have to ante cards, which we don't, and don't plan on doing. The Unglued/Unhinged cards we play do function like regular cards without requiring anything special.
And Booster Tutor will likely become a 45 cards pool from which packs are generated at random. (and if the whole cube isn't drafted, the unused cards are also part of the stack the pack comes from). We plan to test that next time we cube. I don't like to think of it as errata so much as accommodating a really cool card.
I am anticipating that our 45 card booster tutor stack will become sort of a 'graveyard' for cards cut from the cube.
[Remixes] - [The Brutal Cube - 360 Powered] - [My Cube Article] - ['Print-This' Wishlist]
I don't think I can convince anyone (even me) that ante of 0 is 'playing for ante' when it only applies to the one cubeable ante card — especially when the card is Ancestral Recall on steriods.
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Would you put hosers in as wish targets? I'd be tempted to include things like Boil and Flashfires.
I have run Chaos Orb as printed since getting my CE copy. It is quite fun, creates a moment of tension and is appreciated by the more casual members of the group. I can see it getting boring and being cut in the future, though, and I see no reason to include a colourless Vindicate that is playable in instalments and can be a lock with Academy Ruins. The technique with the Orb seems to be to hold it by the corners and spin it on its diagonal axis. I reckon that gives about 75% accuracy. The other thing is that we are fairly sporting when it comes to the Orb, and don't spread our cards out too much. Even if it misses the intended target, it usually hits something.
My 380 Beginners’ Cube on Cube Tutor
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
No hosers, as they are going to still be super narrow (how do you feel when you manage to random Flashfires against the U/B deck with 6 islands in play?).
I would include not-in-the-cube cards since that way I get to put cards which I miss a little back in, and maintain the highlander 'feel' of the cube.
The extra cards have a special sharpied symbol (on the sleeve) on them to keep them separate.
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Why Gerrard's Verdict over Lingering Souls?
Why Azorious Guildmage over something like Venser Sojourner?
Gerrard's Verdict is in because it is a fairly unique effect. We have plenty of efficient creatures in B/W, but not very many ways to force your opponent to discard two cards for 2 mana. And removing it would reduce the number card-advantage discard spells down to 3 (Mind Twist, Blightning, and Hymn to Tourach) and I think having those effects is very important. And if I cut it, then I can't just substitute something else in black for an equivalent effect. Stupor isn't even close, and there aren't really many other options.
As for Azorius Guildmage;
It is an easy to land 2-drop which causes all kinds of headaches for most decks. Tap the creature holding Jitte, cancel the equip on Sword of Fire and Ice, stop Jace from going off, or just tapping down blockers so you can get through for lethal. It is effective, playable in every U/W deck, and never really a dead card. — That said, it is clearly the weakest U/W card I have and I'm looking for a replacement.
Venser, the Sojourner isn't the answer, because he costs too much for what he does (Although I may think about including him if my blink archetype gains enough ground). If he had some way to protect himself, then I'd stick him in right away.
Wall of Denial isn't the answer either, because it just stalls the game out, and doesn't help anyone win. I am trying to remove many/all of the 'stop me from losing' cards which don't create card advantage or otherwise advance the game in some way. Not to mention that it only went in a subset of U/W decks. I don't want to be encouraging W/u tempo only to have that player staring at Wall of Denial or Plumeveil and wondering why his archetype isn't getting support like it should.
Genesis is... interesting. It performs great in about 25% of games, but often it does nothing. Lots of games don't go long enough for it to matter, but the games where it does, often are the games where midrange can turn the tables on control and take control of the game, excuse the pun. I'm debating about what to do with him but right now my playgroup won't stand for me talking about cutting him. Eventually I think something like Acidic Slime could slide into that slot. I'm also starting to see Deranged Hermit lose ground now too (especially with Symbol Status now wreaking havoc at CMC=4). Internally, I am debating about the merits of Wolfir Silverheart bringing 12 power for 5 mana, but I'm not sure if he is good enough either.
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I could see running the Guildmage over Venser in WU.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
In:
Silverblade Paladin
Restoration Angel
Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
Lightning Mauler
Ulvenwald Tracker
Acidic Slime
Sigarda, Host of Herons
Horizon Canopy
Assassins' Stronghold
Out:
Faith's Fetters
Reconnaissance
Bribery
Ashmouth Hound
Wall of Blossoms
Deranged Hermit
Qasali Pridemage
Loam Lion
Lightning Helix
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Can't say I'm a fan of these.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Fetters;
I have to cut something CMC>= 4. What else could possibly go? Reveillark? too good, and supports the same theme Restoration Angel brings. Catastrophe? Too important, and none of the other 4 drops are worse than the Angel. Fetters does a really important thing, but it does cost 4 mana and usually is more of a 'don't lose' card than a 'enable winning' card, especially since it can be negated via removal.
Bribery;
This was a toss-up, but the best thing we could think of to cut for the moonwalker other than Cryptic Command, which would be the other option. And Command is the likely cut for Dungeon Geists, which probably will come in if testing goes as well as I hope this weekend.
Wall of Blossoms;
This card is a control player's dream right? Stall the board, replace itself so you can hit your land drops and make it to late game. But it doesn't do anything else. Philosophy-wise, removing this helps encourage the 'cards help me win' strategy I'm trying to support. (And no, I'm not going to cut Berserk or Nature's Claim)
D. Hermit;
Only a small percentage of games have somebody paying the echo cost, and unless it is being paired with recurring nightmare, ol' master of squirrels rarely does more than make 4x 1/1's for 5 mana. The thought was to bring a tad more utility into green with the Slime. My players also see it as a bad Symbol Status at this point (which usually makes 5+ 1/1's for 4 mana).
Loam Lion and Qasali Pridemage;
Nobody sees these cards in the draft and says "Yes! I am totally going G/W now. I want all my multicolored cards to encourage you to get into the color, rather than being a 'nice to have' if you happen to be in the combination already. Sigarda really does that, and Horizon Canopy is one of the best 2-color lands, but I wasn't running it to make room for the Cat and Dog.
The cube is getting nice and tight now, and I am starting to feel how I can make some fairly serious package swaps and really keep the power level very similar.
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Spined Thopter, Thirst For Knowledge, Gifts Ungiven and Keiga are all cuts I would consider to keep Bribery.
Nature's Claim and Berserk you mentioned, but they're both such easy cuts from a cube like this one. Sable Stag and Pelakka Wurm are also good cuts to keep in the Wall of Blossoms and the Deranged Hermit.
Azorious Guildmage is hardly a gold card the "puts me into WU". I could say the same thing about a lot of the other gold cards in your section. Forcing me into a color combination isn't the only guideline gold cards need to hurdle to be good enough for the cube. Some of them are critical mass fillers that are just as important (if not more important) for a variety of strategies. Loam Lion and Pridemage fit those guidelines because they provide naya aggro with enough 2-power 1-drops or add to the necessary number of disenchant effects for your deck. Sigarda doesn't fill a role that has a gaping weakness, nor does she add to a needed critical mass of bodies/effects that you can quickly run short on.
Most of the cards you're adding in are worth playing. But a lot of the cards you're cutting are better.
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I would probably run a third pegasi if I had one. I think they are that important. Boring on paper, and exceedingly effective in practice. They come down on turn 2 like they should, and they connect because they fly. I'm not going to cut 2 mana cards for 4 mana ones, especially in white where I already have too many CMC=4 cards. Simply put, the math says I have to cut a 4-cost card, so the weakest one has to go.
Not going to cut anything lower than CMC=4 for a 3UU planeswalker. I could see cutting gifts for it though. And if we do add Geists (which I plan on, once I show everyone what it can do tomorrow), then I will need to cut something at CMC=4 or 5 to make room. I will see what I can do to keep bribery in though.
I might be able to cut Stag instead, because it really isn't great at anything, just fairly good, while Wall is a extremely efficient creature. I think Claim, Berserk, and Wurm are all better than everything going in or out though. Your mileage may vary, but until I get a big tramply, shroudy creature in mono-green, I think Wurm is going to stick around.
Hermit hasn't been performing; There is no real reason for me to keep it around except for when somebody builds the G/B RecSur deck. I also want to keep the number of artifact/enchantment removal spells somewhat balanced, since I was planning on removing a white and a green spell which can, so I need to make room for a 5 drop, which means cutting a 5 drop, and Hermit is the weak link.
You know, if wizards would just print some good U/W cards it would be a bit easier I am struggling to make U/W do what I want it to. I am tempted to include sub-par Venser just to drive home support for the blink archetype. Eventually I want all my gold cards to drive me into their sections. If that means I have to cut down to an even smaller gold section eventually to make that work, so be it. I'm not there just yet though. One change at a time.
That said; My green section is designed to support (in the genuine sense of the word) aggro, not be the primary instrument of aggro. e.g. X/g or X/Y/g decks. in those situations, Loam lion isn't nearly as good as we'd like it to be, especially in the pretty common W/R/g or B/W/g decks.
And the thought was that Canopy might be more conducive than Pridemage to building into G/W since it is a draftable card in mono G or mono white, but if taken early, could springboard you into the other color, or if taken later on, at least a splash. I'll let this weekend's testing tell me what to do with this one. Lion out for Sigarda is a firm swap though, and she is way too good not to play.
If you say so. I do appreciate the feedback, and I think Monday or so I will have a better list of changes for you to tear apart
This weekend we are going to cube like 6 times so I will have some very real data on the new additions and some better perspective on whether or not the cuts are the right ones.
Thanks, as always, for the constructive advice!
[Remixes] - [The Brutal Cube - 360 Powered] - [My Cube Article] - ['Print-This' Wishlist]
6 cubes later and I have some nice data, we decided to make some interesting changes.
We also are going to cube twice more tomorrow! and get an idea how this works out. Going to move phyrexian and hybrid mana cards to the universal section and cut gold down to 5 per color pair (Dual, Shock, Fetch, + 2 wildcards in each). Helps align cards with where they tend to play out more often, and also lets me sneak Stillmoon Cavalier back in. Also we have officially branded Squee a Universal card too, since he gets drafted for non-red reasons a large percentage of the time.
Some notes on AVR cards;
[CARD]
Silverblade Paladin[/CARD] performed quite well. Handing Double Strike to creatures like Stormfront Pegasus is pretty darn good, and giving it to stuff holding equipment is even better. Jitte + Silverblade Paladin + Bitterblossom was really dumb to play against. Having one token hit for 6 on turn 4 and 13 more damage the next turn was pretty terrifying. Verdict: Yes
Ulvenwald Tracker is a house. So many games were completely dominated by this guy that I don't see him ever coming out of the cube. Verdict: Yes
Lightning Mauler is great. Not a standout card, but fits in well and does what a 2-drop needs to do. And occasionally it really just breaks the game wide open (FTK with haste is dumb, btw). Verdict: Yes
Tamiyo, the Moonwalker is very solid. Icy Manipulator is a quality effect already, and when it comes with upside (Used it with symbol status tokens to draw 6+ cards more than once, and when it goes ultimate, wins the game.) Verdict: Yes
Sigarda is a big, dumb, unstoppable creature. Simic Sky Swallower in G/W. Is this awesome? We think so. YMMV, but it performed well for us. Verdict: Yes
[CARD]
Wolfir Silverheart[/CARD] is also a big dumb creature, but it dies to everything and fails the terminate test pretty badly. Did some damage when it wasn't removed right away, but so would most 5 mana creatures. Verdict: Not worth it.
Craterhoof Behemoth was awesome, every time it hit play. 100% kill rate when it was cast. But it costs 8 freaking mana. Paying 3 extra mana for a 5/5 haste to come with your overrun is a pretty good deal, but in the end, I don't think we need an 8 mana card. Pelakka tramples on its own, replaces itself if your opponent has removal, and helps stabilize or race by gaining life. Verdict: Nope
Griselbrand; Expensive, but a nice creature. Too expensive to compete with the rest of black's top shelf finishers at the 360 level. Play it in bigger cubes for sure though. Verdict: Not quite
Tibalt: Bad. Just bad. Random discard doesn't help you win. Sorry Tibalt. Verdict: Nope.
Vexing Devil is ALMOST a fixed browbeat. But still isn't good enough. Best on turn 1, and goes downhill from there. 99% of the time, it does 4 damage to your opponent. The only time it doesn't is when that 4 damage would win the game. Played out exactly like I expected. Verdict: Not awful, but not a fit for small lists.
Hound of Griselbrand; Here is an awesome creature. Too bad red is crowded. Verdict: Good, but no room for him. Not as good as the stuff he competes with. Put it in large cubes for sure. I think it might be better than Keldon Champion.
Restoration Angel is a windmill slame staple. 'nuff said. Verdict: Yes
Which leaves where the changes are likely to fall:
Decrease multicolor by 1 card per section
Increase universal section by 10 cards
Move :sympw::sympu::sympb::sympr::sympg: cards to Universal
Move :symwg::symbw::symrb::symgr::symgu: cards to Universal
Move Squee to Universal
OUT;
(Slot Opened)
1 Psychatog
2 Mystic Snake
3 Gerrard's Verdict
4 Kird Ape
5 Putrefy
6 Prophetic Bolt
7 Azorius Guildmage
W Reconnaissance
U Gifts Ungiven
U Thirst for Knowledge
G Great Sable Stag
G Deranged Hermit
Loam Lion
Lightning Helix
MOVES;
(Slot Opened) -> (Slot Filled)
W -> 1 Porcelain Legionnaire
U -> 2 Spined Thopter
U -> 3 Phyrexian Metamorph
B -> 4 Dismember
R -> 5 Squee, Goblin Nabob
8 -> 8 Kitchen Finks
9 -> 9 Murderous Redcap
-> Figure of Destiny
IN;
(Slot Filled)
6 Gemstone Mine
7 Stillmoon Cavalier
W Silverblade Paladin
W Restoration Angel
U Arcane Denial
U Dungeon Geists
U Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
U Timetwister
B Animate Dead
R Lightning Mauler
G Ulvenwald Tracker
G Fyndhorn Elves
Sigarda, Host of Herons
Slayers' Stronghold
[Remixes] - [The Brutal Cube - 360 Powered] - [My Cube Article] - ['Print-This' Wishlist]
We are building a better Booster Tutor 'pool' (BTP) now, and we are thinking it will land somewhere around 50 cards. The list does not reflect the current BTP.
Deckstats and Spreadsheet are not updated yet.
[Remixes] - [The Brutal Cube - 360 Powered] - [My Cube Article] - ['Print-This' Wishlist]
IN;
[Remixes] - [The Brutal Cube - 360 Powered] - [My Cube Article] - ['Print-This' Wishlist]
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Totally agreed. The second worst cut is probably Celestial Colonnade, which may be the best UW card.
Cheers,
rant
My Cube
CubeCobra: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/5f5d0310ed602310515d4c32
Cube Tutor: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1963
I haven't been updating my cube on MTGS (shame on me) through various tests and I'm planning an expansion to 400ish cards, which has involved a lot of testing of sub360 cards across various drafts.
I was about to cube with a group who I haven't gotten a chance to in a long time, and they wanted both an updated list and a changelog of what I was bringing. My cube had some of my update already adjusted, and some other cards that people wanted to test out in. What that changelog was is a 'snapshot' of a transient point in time. I know that quite a few of the changes are suboptimal and some critical cards got cut. This was mainly just to inform my group what was in the box. After going to all the trouble to update the OP and the changelog, I figured I'd run it through Eidolons comparison too. This is not where my cube is today, nor where I plan for it to be in two weeks. The really good cards that I cut — yeah, they are going to be in the 'final' version of the update. I can't cut Imperial Seal for good (no way!). It was just the black card on top of the stack when I wanted to get Clique in for testing.
On another note, Yeva is already cut. Card has done nothing across 5 drafts. Has anyone really had success with her? I found that situations where she is 'awesome' are usually situations where you have a 187, which is already card advantage and rarely did she help anyone 'win' other than attacking.
[Remixes] - [The Brutal Cube - 360 Powered] - [My Cube Article] - ['Print-This' Wishlist]
Mana Tithe
Arcane Denial
Nezumi Graverobber
Hypnotic Specter
Torch Fiend
Arc Lightning
Yeva, Nature's Herald
Deadbridge Goliath
Slayers' Stronghold
Electrolyze
Sigarda, Host of Herons
Stilmoon Cavalier
IN;
Loam Lion
Thirst for Knowledge
Imperial Seal
Blood Scrivener
Kird Ape
Stone Rain
Thornling
Hornet Queen
Boros Charm
Ral Zarek
Voice of Resurgence
Lingering Souls
[Remixes] - [The Brutal Cube - 360 Powered] - [My Cube Article] - ['Print-This' Wishlist]